Ball game rules

[Laserlight]

I want the PCs to play the Mesoamerican Ballgame, and I'm wondering how to represent it mechanically.

The game itself is something like volleyball without a net, and you can't use your hands. Your side scores a point if the opposing team knocks the ball out of bounds, lets it bounce more than once on their side, has the same player hit it more than twice in a row, or hits it illegally (using hands, for example). There's no physical contact between the opposing teams. (A version of the game is still played and I found videos much more helpful to figuring out how it was played than text descriptions).

Key points:
a. What sort of skill rolls will they need? Three of the PCs are from the Old World and have never even seen the game. Their first opponents will be villagers, who play casually ever now and again. Eventually they'll face top quality players (in the Court of Xibalba). I'm thinking "no proficiency and disadvantage" for the PCs, "no proficiency, 1d20" for the villagers, and and "proficiency, 1d20, expertise" for the pros. Is there a better way?

b. That leaves the questions of what to roll--"STR", "DEX", both, either? And what do failures mean? You can fail by missing the ball entirely, hitting it illegally, or knocking it out of bounds; but you can also hit it so the ball bounces on your side (and you can try hitting it again). And if you succeed, you can hit it someplace that's easy for the opponents to deal with, or somewhere that's not--which should mean "my skill roll results influence the opponent's DC required". Any suggestions on how to do the gradients of failure and success?

c. The game is played on a stone court, and sometimes players have to dive to make their play in time. Further, the ball is hard rubber, about 5 pounds. Players normally end up pretty bruised; historically, some died from internal bleeding. I'm thinking that you can improve your skill roll by risking damage--you take 1d4 for +1, 1d6 for +2, as you dive to make the save or you accept a hard hit to make your play.

[Tanarii]

The most important rule: the losing team dies. At least for the court games. ;)

The Proficiency should be the Tool Proficiency Gaming Set: Mezoamerican Ballgame. Tool proficiencies can be used with whatever ability score is appropriate. I assume playing a game would take all of them:

Str checks: attempt to score a goal or get the ball to an ally for a score. The balls were damn heavy from what I understand.

Dex checks: intercept an opponents move.

Con checks: Continue play after a period of time (think basketball players rotating in and out), or avoid damage from a rough play (dive, opponent flinging ball at face).

Int: argue rules with ref or devise a strategy (mostly for coaches), device a tactical play on the fly (for players)

Wis: discern opposing coaches strategy or players tactic

Cha: encourage (or discourage) the crowd! This would help motivate your team for home field (or visitors). It might also keep you alive if you lose a court game ... Thumbs up from the king instead of thumbs down.

Most checks would be opposed checks. You'll want to set a few DCs for non-opposed stuff though. Probably DC 10, 15 & 20s. I'd focus on one or two 'events' per quarter of the game (or whatever time unit it uses) and have that affect the scoring of the game. Similar to a 4e skill challenge. Just, whatever you do, *don't* let it just become a series of rolls. Thats the most challenging part of DMing something like this.

The easiest way to do that is have in mind what kind of things are what kind of checks, and interweave players talking you what they're doing, with describing opponent actions, with occasional checks as needed. And keep it fast paced and flowing while the "game clock" for the game is ticking, don't let it get bogged down with rules minutia.

In other words, run it just like combat. Or a basketball game. Same difference. ;)

[Trasilor]

I would think hitting the ball illegally should only apply on a critical failure (or deliberate cheat).

How would you handle magic? If one of the players boosts themselves or others, is that considered cheating?

Personally, I would handle it much like combat. Use the Reaction action (i.e. that which is used for Attacks of opportunity) to return the ball. Set multiple difficulty levels to determine how successful they are (do they hit just back over, do they hit it to a friend, do they miss, etc.) Use attack rolls to see how well they hit it.

I would let players use STR or DEX when hitting the ball.

In the first few games, give all the players a disadvantage but remove this as the game plays

Perhaps you should talk to your players to see if they have any ideas?

[Douche]

I play volleyball with medicine balls on concrete all the time. It's totally fine.

[krugaan]

Anyone remember Super Dodgeball on the old school NES? I used to love that game.

Someone needs to model that.

[Laserlight]

I would think hitting the ball illegally should only apply on a critical failure (or deliberate cheat).

How would you handle magic? If one of the players boosts themselves or others, is that considered cheating?

Personally, I would handle it much like combat. Use the Reaction action (i.e. that which is used for Attacks of opportunity) to return the ball. Set multiple difficulty levels to determine how successful they are (do they hit just back over, do they hit it to a friend, do they miss, etc.) Use attack rolls to see how well they hit it.

I would let players use STR or DEX when hitting the ball.



I'm thinking DEX for hitting it and STR for "how far/hard did you hit it". As for magic, the players don't have any that will affect it. Which is not to say the the Court of Xibalba won't. :smallbiggrin:

[Ruslan]

Here's a simple serviceable ruleset:

- A team is made of 5 players (which just so happens to be the size of your party, if your party size varies, change this to match).
- From those players, two are "tough", two are "quick", and one is a "wild card", sort of captain, point guard or quarterback.
- The Tough players for each team make DC 15 Athletics checks, the Quick players make DC 15 Acrobatics checks, and the Wildcard player makes either Athletics, Acrobatics, Perception or Intelligence check, also DC 15.
- Whichever team succeeded in more checks, scores a goal (no goal if tied). Narrate the play leading to the goal based on the results of the checks.
- Repeat until required number of goals scored.
- Kill losing team.
- Hilarity ensues.

[Tanarii]

- Kill losing team.
- Hilarity ensues.i like the direction this thread is going ... :smallbiggrin:

[Mara]

Playing a fantasy ball game AND not using the blood bowl rule set :smalltongue:

[Argo]

I want the PCs to play the Mesoamerican Ballgame, and I'm wondering how to represent it mechanically.

The game itself is something like volleyball without a net, and you can't use your hands. Your side scores a point if the opposing team knocks the ball out of bounds, lets it bounce more than once on their side, has the same player hit it more than twice in a row, or hits it illegally (using hands, for example). There's no physical contact between the opposing teams. (A version of the game is still played and I found videos much more helpful to figuring out how it was played than text descriptions).


The game you're describing sounds a lot like Sepak Takraw, a Southeast Asian game. I'm not familiar with a Mesoamerican version.

As for the rolls, they're making unarmed attacks against a small ball using their feet.

Luckily, you can tell your players that since they aren't trying to damage the ball, just make contact, so you can let them trade "oomph" for accuracy on their unarmed attacks, allowing them to make the attack rolls without disadvantage.

Give the ball a starting AC of 5. Each player that successfully hits the ball raises the ball's AC by their Strength or Dexterity bonus, until someone on the team decides to send it back across the net (this additional AC represents spin, speed, etc, that each player is giving the ball by kicking it). If every player on the team successfully hits the ball before sending it across, the ball should be very tough to hit for the opposing team when it gets to their side of the net.

The AC of the ball keeps rising with every kick until someone fails to return it.

Point!