Making Crafting more Incremental and easier

[deathbymanga]

So, in my campaign I want to make it a lot more feasible for my players to go about crafting things and make it a lot more involved than just using downtime. So I was wondering if I could use your suggestions. These are a few of the things I have.

1. Acquiring the materials needed to craft an object negates the financial cost of crafting but does not remove the number for the sake of the amount of time it takes to craft.

2. the 5gp per day rule applies is actually 5gp/8hrs. every additional 8 hours made without a long rest first adds 1 level of Exhaustion. (example: a Swordsmith needs to have this Longsword finished in a single day. He spends 24 hours forging the blade. When he is done, the blade is forged, but he now has 2 levels of Exhaustion and must rest). This rule also applies to Magical Crafting.

3. Healing Potions count as Non-Magical items. Price for each is divided by 5gp. Potions of Healing cost cost 20 gp instead of a 100. Still require 4 days to craft though.

4. Nature's Provider: Homebrew Feat: Gives Proficiency in Herbalism Kit. Instead of taking a Short Rest, you can go and collect fresh ingredients straight from the environment around you to craft 1 Potion of Healing (might need to adjust this to scale with level somehow)

5. I need some way to increment crafting skill. One idea I had was to have a DC met with the player's Passive Crafting check. The more powerful the item, the higher the DC. Legendary Equipment will likely have a DC of 25 or something, requiring some kind of Expertise in the Tool somehow. the difficulty of Generic weapons and armor should go Simple Weapons<Medium Armor<Light Armor=Martial Weapons<Heavy Armor. +1 bonuses to weapon and armor should increase the DC.

The only problem with this is trying to balance magical items. How big a DC should an uncommon item be? What constitutes an uncommon item? Does +1 Light Armor count as Common or Uncommon? Does a +1 Bonus to armor give a +1 bonus to the DC or higher? And I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff I haven't thought of.

Not to mention, even if this is handled, Crafters still don't actually get "better" at crafting. They can craft better stuff, but it still takes a level 15 Swordsmith the same 3 days to craft a Longsword as it does when he was only lvl 1. Not really that impressive. How do I fix that?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Perhaps you might be interested in my crafting supplement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473871-Ninja_Prawn-s-Advanced-Crafting-Project-Comments-Requested!)? It may fix some of the problems you're having.

Also, an observation: +1 Armour is rare, regardless of what type of armour it is.

[deathbymanga]

Perhaps you might be interested in my crafting supplement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473871-Ninja_Prawn-s-Advanced-Crafting-Project-Comments-Requested!)? It may fix some of the problems you're having.

Also, an observation: +1 Armour is rare, regardless of what type of armour it is.

really? that's even worse. +1 armor should be common place by 6th-8th level, how is it only craftable by 11th level? By then you should be using +2 armor or something.

just a notice, you might was to convert to google-drive maybe for sharing files? I find it to be a lot more reliable that dropbox.

the potions factor was more a secondary effect. My biggest concern was the ability for players to be able to craft their own armor readily and easily without any real push. Sure forging steel armor and weapons will require iron and a forge and other factors, but being able to hunt a deer, skin its hide and make leather armor? should be really easy for the seasoned warrior who knows how to use his tools properly. Not to mention there's no real sense of progression with the current rules. a Smith at 15th level can forge a sword just as fast as a 5th level smith. very unrealistic and makes it feel pointless.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Not to mention there's no real sense of progression with the current rules. a Smith at 15th level can forge a sword just as fast as a 5th level smith. very unrealistic and makes it feel pointless.

That's because you're not a 15th-level smith. You're a 15th-level fighter who knows how to use a forge.

And like, how is an unchanging crafting time "unrealistic"? Can a more skilled baker get the cake to rise quicker? The same work needs to be done, and adventurers don't have magical powers that let them craft quicker.

...Unless you write a homebrew spell that does that. Which I did. So the problem is solved.

I don't understand why you want to change the rarity of items depending on the PCs' levels. If an nth level character should have X (which I don't buy at all), they should have fought enough monsters to get one from a treasure hoard. Crafting is about creating special, one-off items that are tailored to your needs. "I need to crank out a set of +1 studded leather because the DM didn't want to give me one" does not sound like a table that is having fun.

[deathbymanga]

That's because you're not a 15th-level smith. You're a 15th-level fighter who knows how to use a forge.

And like, how is an unchanging crafting time "unrealistic"? Can a more skilled baker get the cake to rise quicker? The same work needs to be done, and adventurers don't have magical powers that let them craft quicker.

...Unless you write a homebrew spell that does that. Which I did. So the problem is solved.

I don't understand why you want to change the rarity of items depending on the PCs' levels. If an nth level character should have X (which I don't buy at all), they should have fought enough monsters to get one from a treasure hoard. Crafting is about creating special, one-off items that are tailored to your needs. "I need to crank out a set of +1 studded leather because the DM didn't want to give me one" does not sound like a table that is having fun.

But there's no "smith" class. The only way to judge your skill as a smith at all is proficiency in the smith tools. And unless you wanna make a class for every kind of crafting tool, it makes sense to find a way to treat Smith's Tools like Craft(arms and armor) from 3.5.

because treasure hoards are also unrealistic. You're not going to find at most 60 gold buried in the carcass of a dead Basilisk. You're going to find meat. bone. possibly magic eyes that petrify people (unless that power goes away when they die).

"loot" in any legit sense of the word should not be some arbitrary amount of gold you find on a dead beast's body. that's video game logic. In battle a soldier doesn't go carrying his life saving just because he happens to be a really skilled soldier. being a vagabond, a wandering adventurer, should not be a financially securing occupation.

[Ninja_Prawn]

being a vagabond, a wandering adventurer, should not be a financially securing occupation.

This is a central pillar of D&D. It's right there in the name: dungeons full of treasure, dragons guarding treasure hoards. Perhaps you want a different game?

[Fast Jimmy]

In regards to the OP, two levels of exhaustion actually gives Disadvantage on skill checks - is that something that has taken into consideration in your model?

[deathbymanga]

This is a central pillar of D&D. It's right there in the name: dungeons full of treasure, dragons guarding treasure hoards. Perhaps you want a different game?

I love D&D for it's combat, it's magic, it's lore, the one thing i cannot stand about D&D is it's economics.

I can get behind magic, but only magic that makes sense, and yes it's a thing. just gold magically spawning when I kill a monster? I might as well be playing a video game.

As a DM, I cannot in good nature justify any of this silly world breaking economics.

[deathbymanga]

In regards to the OP, two levels of exhaustion actually gives Disadvantage on skill checks - is that something that has taken into consideration in your model?

Tools are specifically not skills

[Fast Jimmy]

Tools are specifically not skills

Yes, but you still make a tool check when you craft, at least in the PHB rules. It is why you have tool proficiencies, such as thieves kit or artisan kit tools proficiencies.

[deathbymanga]

Yes, but you still make a tool check when you craft, at least in the PHB rules. It is why you have tool proficiencies, such as thieves kit or artisan kit tools proficiencies.

oh, true, and upon a second look, it says ability checks, not skill checks.

I'd probably need to re-adjust this then. I'll probably take a few pointers from Ninja's own work. I do agree with a lot of her thoughts, but I feel that "loot" should be decided by players actually thinking about what they just killed and getting using it effectively. If people want to make money, do jobs for people. Don't just treat adventuring like its some kind of murder hobo video game. what's the point in roleplaying if you won't include some realism.

[Fast Jimmy]

oh, true, and upon a second look, it says ability checks, not skill checks.

I'd probably need to re-adjust this then. I'll probably take a few pointers from Ninja's own work. I do agree with a lot of her thoughts, but I feel that "loot" should be decided by players actually thinking about what they just killed and getting using it effectively. If people want to make money, do jobs for people. Don't just treat adventuring like its some kind of murder hobo video game. what's the point in roleplaying if you won't include some realism.

You can always just avoid money. Let monsters drop no loot/money and then let NPCs reward players with free accommodations, travel arrangements, upgraded equipment, etc. I don't think I've ever played a campaign where wolves dropped gold pieces or anything.