Conversion to Evil mechanics?

[ghanjrho]

So, I'm GMing a Way of the Wicked campaign, and hit a bit of a stumbling block; my players like to capture and convert.

So, what I need is some form of mechanics for how to turn a N or even G into E. 3.0/3.5 is ok, but even some good homebrew will better than what my current plan; aka "roll dice and wing it"

If there are general mechanics for driving someone insane, that's a delightful bonus (I feel like any rapid conversion to Evil should have a chance of driving the target crazy)

[Mystral]

So, I'm GMing a Way of the Wicked campaign, and hit a bit of a stumbling block; my players like to capture and convert.

So, what I need is some form of mechanics for how to turn a N or even G into E. 3.0/3.5 is ok, but even some good homebrew will better than what my current plan; aka "roll dice and wing it"

If there are general mechanics for driving someone insane, that's a delightful bonus (I feel like any rapid conversion to Evil should have a chance of driving the target crazy)

In the Book of Exalted Deeds, there are mechanics for conversion. Just flip them around, it's what the BOED and the BOVD are doing all the time, anyway.

[AmberVael]

A similar system for conversion was made by Selinia for Tome of Radiance, the power of friendship. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14062783&postcount=8) While the intended genre is about as different as you can get, the system itself could easily be reworked for more evil purposes. You'd really just need to change a few of the modifiers to better fit evil themes.

In terms of insanity, you might work the sanity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm) system from Unearthed Arcana in there somehow. I admittedly don't know a ton about the subsystem and its quality, but it might be a place to start if nothing else.

[Telonius]

Fiendish Codex 2 has some rules on that: Corruption (and Obeisance) scores, on page 30. 9 or more gives you a ticket to Baator.

[Red Fel]

I find the easiest way to convert a character to Evil is the natural way. Give them two options - the Good way and the Easy way. And make sure they always choose Easy.

Start small. Give them a choice between action and inaction. Not Good Action and Bad Action, but Good Action and Do Nothing. That's always the first step. And make it so that doing nothing serves the end goal. Always keep an end goal in mind - if you know what this character wants, you can keep reminding them that it's more pragmatic to sacrifice a few morals here and there for the "greater good."

Once you've persuaded them to fail to act a few times - likely because doing the Good Action would take time away from the End Goal, and therefore be a diversion that they simply can't afford or somesuch - you start introducing very minor bad acts. Being a bit more brutal than necessary with one's enemies. Being a bit dismissive with civilians who aren't part of your plan. Spending less time performing noble acts, and more time obsessing over the End Goal.

With the PCs' help, this NPC can eventually track down a person directly involved with the End Goal. Hopefully, by this time, you will have thoroughly corrupted them with the Easy Way and the virtue of Pragmatism. At that point, the character in question has a choice. He can either get what he needs from the person directly involved with the End Goal, and then leave said person be... Or he can take far too much pleasure in making him suffer. Torture him for more information, kill him out of revenge, any of that.

When he does it, you're done. He has just rationalized an utterly immoral act that served no purpose except to satisfy his bloodlust. Welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool. No mechanics or dice rolls required. (Maybe some Diplomacy if you like.)

Converting someone to Good is hard. You have to convince them that pursuing a life of virtue over a life of ease is worthwhile. Converting someone to Evil is far easier. You just have to show them how Evil gets the job done.

And next time, call me. You know how.

[SangoProduction]

Also, that book with the Archivist, and the Dread Nercomancer has a Demon of Corruption class which lets Good characters become Evil, like Atonement, but in reverse.

[Segev]

The trouble, if I'm understanding the OP correctly, is that this isn't just about corrupting them to Evil, but about making them into useful minions. Good guys have that cooperative bent, and tend to respect each others' rights to their own decisions and choices, relying on some sort of guilty conscience or charitable attitude to get them to help out.

Evil people are, as said, pragmatic. Turning somebody so they're willing to do whatever you need done, but keeping their ambitions in check and/or tied to your goals so they don't usurp you or betray you...that's harder than simply corrupting them. That requires more finesse, or significantly greater force. Which shouldn't be a problem, since being Evil is all about being effective. And strength is nearly always effective.

Honestly, the EASIEST thing to do here would be to invest in mind-control. Charm them. Dominate them. Deceive them with illusions. Geas them. Kill them and enslave their undying corpses and souls. It's the only way to be sure they're not plotting against you.

But if you're one of those evil types who likes trusted companions - and that IS possible, even for evil - then you need to do as Red Fel suggested...but make sure that they always NEED you. That the easy solution is to come to you and trade favors. That the pragmatic choice is to do what you say. A little fear of what will happen if they betray you is a good thing, but if you make that the prime motivator, you may as well go back to the mind control thing; they'll resent you just as much and have less chance to act on it.

[Deadline]

In the Book of Exalted Deeds, there are mechanics for conversion. Just flip them around, it's what the BOED and the BOVD are doing all the time, anyway.

I'd add a warning to those rules. They are incredibly broken (and more than a little silly). That said, if you just want a quick set of mechanics to do this, and none of your players invest too much into Diplomacy, it'll probably suit your needs. If you'd rather make it a meaningful contribution, I'd encourage you to listen to Red Fel. His suggestions make way more sense, aren't silly, and are rather easy to implement.

[ghanjrho]

I'm thinking of a multiple tier approach. Unimportant NPCs will use a Power of Friendship variant (leaning towards d20+CHA vs HD+5+CHA for the roll), with situational modifiers (torture, Red Fel-isms, etc,) adding to the roll. Additionally, the victim makes a Will save against the brainwashing check, with failure earning Derangement points (modifiers will apply against the save as well). Derangements will lean towards the entertaining, not realistic. The goal is to create a risk/reward paradigm; do you take your time and get Bianca DeVallyn, Commisar? Or push hard and fast, and risk getting Bianca DeVallyn, Yandere sadistic sociopath?

More important NPCs? Red Fel all the way. The only shortcut is mind control. And you better hope you can make it More Than Mind Control.

[Red Fel]

But if you're one of those evil types who likes trusted companions - and that IS possible, even for evil - then you need to do as Red Fel suggested...but make sure that they always NEED you. That the easy solution is to come to you and trade favors. That the pragmatic choice is to do what you say. A little fear of what will happen if they betray you is a good thing, but if you make that the prime motivator, you may as well go back to the mind control thing; they'll resent you just as much and have less chance to act on it.


More important NPCs? Red Fel all the way. The only shortcut is mind control. And you better hope you can make it More Than Mind Control.

These. Remember that being a corruptor means being a pusher. First hit is free, but after that, you want them to be addicted.

It's easy, too. Because the more you teach them to rationalize, the more the people they once called friends will look at them and see only delusions. And even if they go a little crazy, they'll be aware enough to realize that their friends aren't their friends anymore. There's just you. You're the only person on whom they can rely. The one who understands. The one who sympathizes. The one who wants to help.

You've probably heard the words in a dozen villain monologues by now. "Do you really think they'll accept you now? Do you think they'll understand? What you did - what you had to do? They could never comprehend the sacrifices you've had to make. But I do. I've seen you grow, and struggle. I've seen you evolve. Together, we can put an end to this destructive conflict. Join me."

That's the beauty of the corruption method. By their acts - by their inaction, and later their bad action - they cut themselves off from friends, family, colleagues. From people who trusted them, admired them, respected them. And you're the only one left. They may be corrupt, but they're still human (or elf, dwarf, etc.) and they need companionship. They need help. They need to be reminded that they're doing the right thing. And you'll be there to give them all of that, even when nobody else will.

Especially then.

[Debihuman]

Ravenloft had Powers Checks for questionable behavior and for every single one that was failed, a character had a chance to become corrupted. Something as simple as lying could trigger one. Unprovoked assault would be another. You could use something along those guidelines. See here (pardon the annoying ad): http://voltor.narod.ru/dod/dod07001.htm

Debby