Does someone know that diplomacy homebrew?

[SangoProduction]

I can't find it. Basically any diplomacy homebrew is nice, I guess

[AvatarVecna]

Are you referring to the Giant's homebrew Diplomacy rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9606632&postcount=2)?

[Flickerdart]

I made this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279732-3-5-PEACH-Proposed-social-interaction-system) once.

[SangoProduction]

Are you referring to the Giant's homebrew Diplomacy rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9606632&postcount=2)?

That's the one.

[Chronos]

Personally, while I think that Rich's rules almost work, there are still some corner cases that just don't work right. For instance, two high-level characters with no training in the skill will never be able to agree to any deal, even a perfectly fair one. To fix this, I would recommend taking out the level dependence, and instead making it an opposed check.

I also think that, if the skill is going to be used that way, it makes more sense to call it "Negotiation" instead of "Diplomacy", though obviously the name isn't a big deal.

[Troacctid]

You do have to bear in mind that the Giant's fix is mostly about making the skill quicker and easier for the DM to adjudicate, not about balance. Since the player has more control over the outcome of the check, it's actually more abusable than before, although admittedly removing the rushed checks and synergy-stacking helps a bit.

[AvatarVecna]

That's the one.

Glad I could help. And yeah, the Giant's rules work alright for higher-op characters, but when you throw non-Diplomancers into the mix things get a bit weird.

[Cosi]

You do have to bear in mind that the Giant's fix is mostly about making the skill quicker and easier for the DM to adjudicate, not about balance.

Yup. As long as jacking your Diplomacy check into the stratosphere lets you convince people to accept any deal you want, the skill cannot be meaningfully said to be fixed.

[John Longarrow]

{scrubbed}

[Chronos]

With sufficient optimization, any character strategy can get you what you want. A sufficiently-optimized warrior, for instance, can kill anything they want. The key is to make sure that the level that's sufficiently optimized is high enough that it isn't always achievable, and that how much optimization is required can be varied so encounters can keep up at any given level.

[Cosi]

{scrubbed}

That's fine. The issue isn't that you can convince someone to buy your sword just before traders come into town with a load of new swords. It's that you can propose a deal like "give me all your stuff in exchange for literally nothing" to your worst enemy and expect them to accept it.

[John Longarrow]

Banks still get people to sign up for reverse mortgages...

The way you've phrased it wouldn't go over. Diplomacy is rephrasing it in such a way that your worst enemy thinks he's getting a fast one over on you and YOUR the one who's on the hook some how. If I were to try that on my worst enemy, it would be through a third party. Said third party would approach them with an asset protection trust. Said trust is designed to protect their assets should they encounter fiscal hardship (medical issues, bad investments, bad business plan for their start up, death in the family, what ever is needed to get them to sign) Once they've signed off, they find out I'm designated to administer their trust.

By the time they find that out it would be far to late...