How to hide Evil alignment/subtype from this guy

[Jowgen]

I'm faced with the issue with how one can conceal an Evil alignment component, or even worse, an Evil subtype from a character with the following abilities

- Scent of Evil (Stalker of Kharash)
- Favored Enemy Evil (Spot modifier +30 to spot Favored Enemies as per dragon 334 p. 91)
- Nemesis: Favored Enemy Evil
- Favored Enemy Fiends (Spot modifier +30 to spot Favored Enemies as per dragon 334 p. 91)
- Keen Eared Scout (Listen modifier against Evil Fiends +40)

So yeah. Any ideas?

[Malimar]

How's the character's Sense Motive? The first thing that springs to mind is "Be a Harvester Devil (FC2) and pump your Bluff"; his Alignment Mask works on "any effect", but requires a Bluff check opposed by Sense Motive. (This only springs to mind because I just used a Harvester Devil in a session yesterday so I was just looking at their statblock.)

Being a Lilitu (FC1) won't work so well: her Shroud Alignment works automatically, but it only works on spells and SLAs with the Good descriptor, and items.

[GilesTheCleric]

Cloak of Khyber is written poorly and is open-ended. That in combination with false alignment or nondetection or something should do the trick.

[Telonius]

Master of Masks + Angel Mask?

[Lord Haart]

Alignment? It's easy. Well, with some enforced self-discipline.

Cast appropriate Dominate on yourself. Willingly fail a save.

Give a command in vein of: "From this point on, you will do your best, to the fullest extent of your abilities, to act exactly as if your alignment, goals, beliefs and ways of thinking are as they are at current point, regardless of all changes they might undergo, with no exceptions except for the following. You will consider it of paramount importance to spend a full round each day concentrating on this very Dominate spell. You will consider it of paramount importance to recast this Dominate spell before it expires, at any cost, with this exact wording and intent. You will willingly fail any saving throws against this Dominate spell or any other Dominate spell that share this wording. You will not look for loopholes in the wording of this spell or ways to behave outside of what this Dominate spell and your CURRENT alignment dictates, but follow the intent of this spell to your best ability. Don this helm of Opposite Alignment."

Don a helm of Opposite Alignment. Act exactly as if you were unchanged, which does quite include: pretending you're not evil, avoiding dispells and protections against stuff, dooming the entire world (you could do it before alignment shift, so you're enforced to still be able to).


Won't hide an alignment subtype, but at least gives a chance to convince you're a redeemed type (pinging as Good too might help with that).

[MisterKaws]

Bluff DC 70, works as long as you're awake, as per ELH.

[Jowgen]

Be a Harvester Devil (FC2) and pump your Bluff

It's "can determine alignment or sense an alignment aura" wording does make it seem like it'll block Nemesis and Scent of Evil. I am uncertain on the Spot checks. Keen Eared Scout, however, I am quite certain would still be able to pick up on the Evil subtype and other subtypes.


Cloak of Khyber is written poorly and is open-ended. That in combination with false alignment or nondetection or something should do the trick.

The City of Stormreach spell? The only loophole I see here is if someone really stretched the "divination" part of "conceals the caster’s alignment from any form of divination" to include more than just divination-school effects. Even if Nemesis and Scent of Evil were ruled to be duped, I don't think the spot checks would (hard to make skills be "divinations"), and again Keen Eared Scout would pick up Evil subtypes.


Master of Masks + Angel Mask

First I thought this might work because of poor wording, but the "retain your normal alignment for all other purposes" clause in the Persona Mask ability's description kills it. :smallfrown:


Alignment? It's easy. Well, with some enforced self-discipline.

Cast appropriate Dominate on yourself. Willingly fail a save.

Give a command in vein of: "From this point on, you will do your best, to the fullest extent of your abilities, to act exactly as if your alignment, goals, beliefs and ways of thinking are as they are at current point, regardless of all changes they might undergo, with no exceptions except for the following. You will consider it of paramount importance to spend a full round each day concentrating on this very Dominate spell. You will consider it of paramount importance to recast this Dominate spell before it expires, at any cost, with this exact wording and intent. You will willingly fail any saving throws against this Dominate spell or any other Dominate spell that share this wording. You will not look for loopholes in the wording of this spell or ways to behave outside of what this Dominate spell and your CURRENT alignment dictates, but follow the intent of this spell to your best ability. Don this helm of Opposite Alignment."

Don a helm of Opposite Alignment. Act exactly as if you were unchanged, which does quite include: pretending you're not evil, avoiding dispells and protections against stuff, dooming the entire world (you could do it before alignment shift, so you're enforced to still be able to).


Won't hide an alignment subtype, but at least gives a chance to convince you're a redeemed type (pinging as Good too might help with that).

This is very well thought out, and certainly a good lesson in self-dominate abuse. Actually magically changing the alignment after ensuring actual behavior isn't changed certainly seems to do the job, but I do see some drawbacks.

For one, noticing the dominate non-magically is just a DC 15 Sense Motive away, which might rouse suspicion. Second, entering a simple magic circle against evil would suspend the dominate, which one would then immediately aim to get rid of as per the Helm's stipulations. Third, a DM might rule that the dominate and the helm count as conflicting mental control effects, so you'd have to Cha-check against... I don't even know.

Still, the core of the method seems solid. :smallsmile:


Bluff DC 70, works as long as you're awake, as per ELH.

Huh. That does seem to actually work. All of the listed do seem to fit the description of "alignment-sensing effects".

[JyP]

I see etherealness as a way to avoid detection... once they are face to face though, I see only Bluff.

[ApologyFestival]

As good as Bluff is, any creature noticing that something is wrong or that someone is untrustworthy is a simple (and oft-forgotten) Sense Motive check, DC 20. For a ranger trying to gauge his favoured enemy, that should be an easy check to make.

Bluff will be able to get your creature through very brief social encounters if they're a quick talker, but no more. Sense Motive is a powerful skill.

[MisterKaws]

As good as Bluff is, any creature noticing that something is wrong or that someone is untrustworthy is a simple (and oft-forgotten) Sense Motive check, DC 20. For a ranger trying to gauge his favoured enemy, that should be an easy check to make.

Bluff will be able to get your creature through very brief social encounters if they're a quick talker, but no more. Sense Motive is a powerful skill.

If you can do a Bluff 70 constantly, I'm sure you'd be safe as long as you don't go around stabbing people and trying to convince them it's just their imagination.

[Telonius]

Alternate way of hiding it: don't try to. I used that concept in a Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19121436&postcount=65) a little while back:


“Now pay attention, Acolyte. It doesn’t matter what you look like, who you are, what your past might be. The most important thing you can do to maintain your cover, is to find a hero and tell them most of the truth. And I guarantee you, the land is crawling with people who want to think of themselves as heroes. Feed them a sob story of undeserved hardship and redemption, and throw yourself at their mercy. You want a defender? Just ask. You won’t even need to pay them. Make them believe that they're your only hope, and they’ll go to war to protect you. Plant that seed of pride, and you won’t need to convince anyone you’re on the side of the angels. They’ll do it for you. If anything goes wrong, and some Cleric starts pushing too hard, give your hero your saddest puppy eyes, say you’re just endangering the team’s mission, and offer to leave. And when they flat-out refuse that? You’re well on your way to sending their soul gift-wrapped to Baalzebul.”

...

Desideria typically gains the trust of a hero (or group of heroes), then reveals her own background to them. She is very careful never to lie, but tells selective truths to make herself seem good, vulnerable, or dependent on her chosen hero. Some example truths: her parents were a devil and a cultist (true); her parents performed a Ritual of Alignment on her (true); her background will always cause her to register as Evil (true) and arouse suspicion (true); she doesn’t believe anyone will ever fully trust her (true); she prefers to summon good-aligned creatures to help her (true); she wants to help them succeed (true); she lives in constant fear that someday, someone will find out who she really is and kill her for it (true); she doesn’t think that she’s worthy of being called Good (true, and useful on the rare occasion that someone thinks to use Detect Good on her before she gains immunity to alignment detection); she wishes people would see her as a Good person (true).

[AvatarVecna]

How to keep him from detecting you? Well, dead bodies don't get to use class abilities or make skill checks, so...[/thread]

[Telonius]

How to keep him from detecting you? Well, dead bodies don't get to use class abilities or make skill checks, so...[/thread]

Exalted Deeds; there's a good chance he'd just come back as a Risen Martyr. :smallbiggrin:

[Necroticplague]

Exalted Deeds; there's a good chance he'd just come back as a Risen Martyr. :smallbiggrin:

Thankfully, this is what Thinuam is for.

[Vertharrad]

Best solution...don't play a evil, fiendish character around that character. May not be the answer you wanted, but it's the best solution to your quandary.

[MisterKaws]

Thankfully, this is what Thinuam is for.

Now you've got his patron god sending an Aleax into your way, because the best way to kill you is by doing it yourself , dontcha think?