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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next New Cantrip: Frost-fang Blade



DracoKnight
2016-01-13, 07:02 AM
So, there's green-flame blade and booming blade, and I already homebrewed the cantrip reaper's blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473185-Reaper-s-Blade-New-Cleric-and-Warlock-Cantrip&highlight=reaper%27s+blade), but now here's a new spell: frost-fang blade (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B66RprYE6_HHZlJJZHpVNVhwZ2s/view?usp=sharing)! For the silver/white draconic sorcerers or other casters with a proclivity for dealing cold damage! :smallbiggrin:

SterlingWren
2016-01-13, 07:08 AM
*prepares to deliver bad pun*

...This, is pretty chill :smallcool:

Amnoriath
2016-01-13, 07:34 AM
Okay while I understand this needs to be more significant than Ray of Frost since it is melee eventually being able to shutdown a character's movement per round in one hit is way too much. At least the Warlock had to consult an invocation and connect 3 other times against the same target.

DracoKnight
2016-01-13, 07:37 AM
Okay while I understand this needs to be more significant than Frost Bolt since it is melee eventually being able to shutdown a character's movement per round is too much. At least the Warlock had to consult an invocation and connect 3 other times against the same target.

How would you increase the movement reduction? Or would you have it just start higher than ray of frost? Like, say 15 feet of movement?

RakiReborn
2016-01-13, 07:42 AM
I agree that the movement reduction is a bit much at higher levels. My advice would be to either not increase it, let it start with 5ft and increase by 5ft each time, or increase it once on level 11 by 10ft. The last one seems most balanced to me, but might look strange as i dont think other cantrips scale that way...
Other than that, like the cantrip, and gives a nice melee cold gish cantrip :)

Requiemforlust
2016-01-13, 07:44 AM
Like, say 15 feet of movement?

I would go this route. Other than that, I like this :smallsmile:

Another alternative route, would be instead of reducing movement, maybe disadvantage on DEX saves. Maybe that's too powerful.

DracoKnight
2016-01-13, 08:05 AM
I updated the link in the OP.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-01-13, 08:11 AM
So, there's green-flame blade and booming blade, and I already homebrewed the cantrip reaper's blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473185-Reaper-s-Blade-New-Cleric-and-Warlock-Cantrip&highlight=reaper%27s+blade), but now here's a new spell: frost-fang blade (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B66RprYE6_HHNENoUnk2cVhCdFE/view?usp=sharing)! For the silver/white draconic sorcerers or other casters with a proclivity for dealing cold damage! :smallbiggrin:

I like this! I have a silver ancestry draconic sorcerer - I'm gonna ask my DM if I can use this cantrip, since I was trying for a melee build :smallsmile:

SterlingWren
2016-01-13, 08:13 AM
I'm gonna say yes, but you'll have to learn it from another Sorcerer. I'll work it into the game somehow.

PoeticDwarf
2016-01-14, 11:30 AM
The spells have good fluff, and the balance is OK compared to the other blades, only point is I hate these spells. For arcane tricksters they mean -I use my cantrip for free extra damage- and otherwise it is -I deal extra damage or if I have extra attack this becomes worthless-

Cantrip shouldn't be options you always want to use in combat!

Please don't reduce movement with that much, just start with the same you have now and then +1d8 damage but not extra reduction every level.
You could also remove it from some spell lists, only for sorcerers, wizards and warlocks ?

DracoKnight
2016-01-14, 04:07 PM
Cantrip shouldn't be options you always want to use in combat!

I disagree. I like that WotC created the melee cantrips. There are so many different options for ranged spellcasters, but melee used to be suicide for casters, because there were not spells to realistically support that type of build. Which, to me, was ridiculous considering Pact of the Blade is pointless if there's nothing attractive about being in melee. Now, spellcasters have superb melee options that scale with a Fighter's Extra Attack. Yes, these cantrips aren't terribly great if you have Extra Attack, but for a spellcaster, such as the Bladesinger, Pact of the Blade Warlock, Lore Bard, etc., these increase their survivability in melee by a lot. It's decent at will damage to allow players to better create a spellcaster that wades into melee.


Please don't reduce movement with that much, just start with the same you have now and then +1d8 damage but not extra reduction every level.
You could also remove it from some spell lists, only for sorcerers, wizards and warlocks ?

I applied your recommended changes.

PoeticDwarf
2016-01-15, 11:20 AM
I disagree. I like that WotC created the melee cantrips. There are so many different options for ranged spellcasters, but melee used to be suicide for casters, because there were not spells to realistically support that type of build. Which, to me, was ridiculous considering Pact of the Blade is pointless if there's nothing attractive about being in melee. Now, spellcasters have superb melee options that scale with a Fighter's Extra Attack. Yes, these cantrips aren't terribly great if you have Extra Attack, but for a spellcaster, such as the Bladesinger, Pact of the Blade Warlock, Lore Bard, etc., these increase their survivability in melee by a lot. It's decent at will damage to allow players to better create a spellcaster that wades into melee.
On one hand you are right, because pact of the blade IS pointless otherwise and because this stuff doesn't break the game or ruin it, so I don't think it is that bad to be fair. on the other hand I still think valor bards are one of the strongest casters in the game and bladesingers are pretty darn good and they were not before these cantrips suicidal. Also, noncasters can easily get these cantrips, so it doesn;'t add that much for just casters.

There should be spells to help that build, but not like this. More level 1+ spells and cantrips as true strike, but just not that bad. I still think cantrips aren't supposed to be used always, no wizard uses ray of frost or firebolt every round.

DracoKnight
2016-01-15, 11:42 AM
There should be spells to help that build, but not like this. More level 1+ spells and cantrips as true strike, but just not that bad. I still think cantrips aren't supposed to be used always, no wizard uses ray of frost or firebolt every round.

Of course they don't. They have much better ranged options - fireball, magic missile, Melf's acid arrow, burning hands, chromatic orb, scorching ray, lightning bolt, etc. Wizards don't have very many melee options. The things that they do have are buffs/debuffs for melee characters...that are useless to them, unless they have a reason to be in melee. They don't have a lot of weapon proficiencies, so if you want to be in melee, you have to either use the limited selection from the simple weapons group, or you have to access better weapons via racial weapon training, the weapon master feat, or the bladesinger.

The cantrips have their uses:

Booming blade: if you've taken War Caster, this is excellent. If an enemy leaves your reach, they trigger an attack of opportunity. If they trigger an attack of opportunity, they're moving freely - and they can't choose to stop just because you attacked them and they want to avoid the extra damage - because they would not have knowledge that you would make the attack without moving away from you which is what triggered it. You've trapped your enemy into taking the initial damage, AND the secondary rider damage.

Green-flame blade: Intelligent DMs know to send enemies behind the players to kill the Wizard. This spell gives you decent up-close and personal crowd control. It's significantly better (for you staying alive) than dropping a fireball centered on yourself to clear out everyone around you.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-01-15, 01:15 PM
I'm gonna have to side with DracoKnight on this one. Spellcasters needed melee options, and the melee cantrips give them just that.

PoeticDwarf
2016-01-16, 10:35 AM
Mmmm, you gave a good argument. As I said, I think there should more melee options. Maybe just giving +1d8 base damage on levels 5 and 17.

I don't think you should change that. Cause otherwise it would be way worse than the SCAG cantrips. It is my opinion about the SCAG cantrips. The ones you made are cooler and better fluffwise, but I personally still think this sort of cantrip in general. Not you one. Should be nerfed