Rogue / Wizard, sneak attack caster

[basicedgar]

I've posted on this forum before about this character and i've narrowed in a lot, but i have just a few more questions before i'm ready to finalize him and get rolling.

My goal is to go 1 Rogue / 5 Wizard / X Unseen Seer

Our campaign will start at level 3, so i know i'll basically just be plinking around with my light crossbow, and doing skill monkey things.

But my biggest concern is whether i should Specialize my wizard.
My first idea was to go Conjuration for obvious reasons, but outside of enchantment i can't decide on what to drop. If i drop evocation, ill be losing out on daze at low levels, and rays at all levels. And if i go Necromancy i'll lose out on enervation and false life.

So should i just stick as a generalist and forgo those bonus spells per level?

Also am I right in assuming i should stick with a light crossbow?

I'm leaning towards taking the Dark Premonitions flaw and the Noncombatant flaw, because i figure it fits with the diviner style, and rangedcentric focus.

Ideas?


Edit: the blasphemy of putting Rouge in the title.

[Psyren]

(obligatory makeup joke)

You don't actually need evocation/rays for your sneak attack - orbs (conjuration) can trigger it just as well, and are in fact generally superior to rays because they bypass SR and spell immunity while rays don't.

But if you're set on keeping evocation and rays, another banworthy option is abjuration - not because it's not useful, but because most of the better spells can be duplicated by your party's cleric. So while I personally wouldn't drop it, you can live without it more easily than conjuration, illusion or transmutation.

[Troacctid]

Necromancy isn't that painful to drop. It's mostly debuffs, where you want to be spending your actions on things that work with sneak attacks.

Honestly though, unless there's a specific specialist-only ACF that you want, I'd go Domain Wizard. It gives you the bonus spell slots and gives you free spells known and boosts your caster level for those spells, and you don't need to ban any schools.

[Beheld]

My general advice is "Domain Wizard." Specifically, I have a question:


If i drop evocation, ill be losing out on daze at low levels, and rays at all levels.

What Daze are you missing out on by banning Evocation?

[Fouredged Sword]

I would go generalist because it really, you have plenty of spell slots.

[basicedgar]

My general advice is "Domain Wizard." Specifically, I have a question:



What Daze are you missing out on by banning Evocation?


Flare, my bad

[basicedgar]

Necromancy isn't that painful to drop. It's mostly debuffs, where you want to be spending your actions on things that work with sneak attacks.

Honestly though, unless there's a specific specialist-only ACF that you want, I'd go Domain Wizard. It gives you the bonus spell slots and gives you free spells known and boosts your caster level for those spells, and you don't need to ban any schools.

Ive never really looked into Domain wizards before?
Which domain would you recommend for the get up?
Honestly I could see a lot of the domains being fairly viable for my build idea.
But i do like the concept of domain over specialized, and i'm also becoming fairly swayed that Generalized outweighs Specialized if i'm being doubtful of spells to give up.
So domain wizard seems a good idea.

[Beheld]

1) I have played D&D for many many many years. I have mostly played casters. I have cast Flare zero times ever. That is a really weird spell to worry about missing.

2) You might even be able to make a custom domain, but if not, domains do lots of things, so for example, Conjuration gives you good Battlefield Control, Enchantment gives you a solid Mind affecting save or lose effect almost every level, Illusion and Necromancy give you lots of different stuff.

Ultimately, you are basically picking one of those, but you might ask for a Custom Evocation (for Rogues) domain that gives you Lesser Orb, Scorching Ray, Icelance?, ect., as just a spell of each level that you can SA with.

[Troacctid]

Ive never really looked into Domain wizards before?
Which domain would you recommend for the get up?
Honestly I could see a lot of the domains being fairly viable for my build idea.
But i do like the concept of domain over specialized, and i'm also becoming fairly swayed that Generalized outweighs Specialized if i'm being doubtful of spells to give up.
So domain wizard seems a good idea.

The trick is that you're not just looking for the best spells--you're a generalist Wizard, you can get all the spells anyway--you're looking for the spells where you most want that +1 bonus to caster level. That means spells like Dispel Magic, Polymorph, Scorching Ray, and Control Winds that benefit greatly from high caster levels are especially attractive.

Of course, you do also want good spells at every level if possible, so a domain like Conjuration is still appealing even though none of its spells scale well with caster level, just because every spell in the domain is something you're always happy to have prepared.

[Beheld]

The trick is that you're not just looking for the best spells--you're a generalist Wizard, you can get all the spells anyway--you're looking for the spells where you most want that +1 bonus to caster level. That means spells like Dispel Magic, Polymorph, Scorching Ray, and Control Winds that benefit greatly from high caster levels are especially attractive.

Of course, you do also want good spells at every level if possible, so a domain like Conjuration is still appealing even though none of its spells scale well with caster level, just because every spell in the domain is something you're always happy to have prepared.

I would say this is wrong for two reasons:

1) You have to prepare each of your domains spells once a day, you want spells that you will happily cast once a day. So something like the Abjuration Domain that grants you such limited use spells as Shield, Resist Energy, and... Remove Curse, is one you want to avoid for the most part. (if you are a higher level character, it does get some nice spells later on). Hence the reason why I focused on domains with spells that you would actually want to cast on a daily basis.

2) Your list of spells with benefits from Caster level has a spell which doesn't benefit from CL. Polymorph doesn't benefit from CL at all, unless you happen to have some higher level characters wandering around helping you out. (I assume, that since he is an Unseen Seer, he's taking Practiced Spellcaster).

[Troacctid]

I would say this is wrong for two reasons:

1) You have to prepare each of your domains spells once a day, you want spells that you will happily cast once a day. So something like the Abjuration Domain that grants you such limited use spells as Shield, Resist Energy, and... Remove Curse, is one you want to avoid for the most part. (if you are a higher level character, it does get some nice spells later on). Hence the reason why I focused on domains with spells that you would actually want to cast on a daily basis.

2) Your list of spells with benefits from Caster level has a spell which doesn't benefit from CL. Polymorph doesn't benefit from CL at all, unless you happen to have some higher level characters wandering around helping you out. (I assume, that since he is an Unseen Seer, he's taking Practiced Spellcaster).

1. For the most part the domain spells are...okay. The ones that are actually bad can be used to fuel Spontaneous Divination, or some other ability like Arcane Strike or Proteus.

2. I don't know what you mean...your caster level determines the HD of the creature you can turn into, so it's extremely important.

[Beheld]

1. For the most part the domain spells are...okay. The ones that are actually bad can be used to fuel Spontaneous Divination, or some other ability like Arcane Strike or Proteus.

2. I don't know what you mean...your caster level determines the HD of the creature you can turn into, so it's extremely important.

1) It makes a lot more sense to assume someone won't have those than that they will, and aside from Spontaneous Divination, you are better off not having them and having a Domain with good spells. Calling Web, Stinking Cloud, or Wall of Stone "okay" is silly, those are some of the best spells of those levels. Summon Monster IV is ". . . okay" because summon spells are bad, but obscure object and remove curse are just bad domain spells.

Domain spells, like spells in general, range from awesome to garbage, and so you want to pick a domain that has as many awesome and as few garbage spells as possible at the levels you are going to be playing at.

2) Your Caster level or the subject's HD whichever is lower. So your caster level is never the determining factor in what creature you can turn into, because your caster level will be equal to your HD or higher.

Getting +1 CL on polymorph allows you to transform into zero new creatures unless you were giving up caster levels and not taking Practiced Spellcaster.

It only determines how many heads of hydra you can turn the animated zombies you raised into, which is a level of cheese so large that I have difficulty caring.

[Waazraath]

I've posted on this forum before about this character and i've narrowed in a lot, but i have just a few more questions before i'm ready to finalize him and get rolling.

My goal is to go 1 Rogue / 5 Wizard / X Unseen Seer

Our campaign will start at level 3, so i know i'll basically just be plinking around with my light crossbow, and doing skill monkey things.

But my biggest concern is whether i should Specialize my wizard.
My first idea was to go Conjuration for obvious reasons, but outside of enchantment i can't decide on what to drop. If i drop evocation, ill be losing out on daze at low levels, and rays at all levels. And if i go Necromancy i'll lose out on enervation and false life.

So should i just stick as a generalist and forgo those bonus spells per level?

Also am I right in assuming i should stick with a light crossbow?

I'm leaning towards taking the Dark Premonitions flaw and the Noncombatant flaw, because i figure it fits with the diviner style, and rangedcentric focus.

Ideas?


Edit: the blasphemy of putting Rouge in the title.

I missed the earlier post, but imo one of the best ways to do the sneak attack caster, is with binder 1 / wiz 3 / anima mage 10. Free metamagic feats, (for quicken), sneak attack and sudden strike from binder, and only one caster level loss.

If you are set on this build, I second the domain wizard from Unearthed arcana.

[gorfnab]

Also am I right in assuming i should stick with a light crossbow?

The feats Acidic Splatter or Force Needle can give you an attack option to use instead of a crossbow. The Cloud of Knives spell is also an option to look into.

Other ideas can be found in this handbook: Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)

[basicedgar]

So realistically it seems like either generalist or Domain wizard. I'll have to look more at home brew domains or work up something thematic and not over powered for a sneak Mage domain.

Are there any suggestion in a good spell selections for a custom domain?

I guess I'm just too fond of having all the spells as an option to realistically give up a domain.
I know that conjuration provides all the sneak attack fodder I need, so I could probably forgo evocation but I'm just find of rays I guess.




The feats Acidic Splatter or Force Needle can give you an attack option to use instead of a crossbow. The Cloud of Knives spell is also an option to look into.


Acidic Splatter is on the list of goals, but seeing as my character is going to start as 1 Rogue / 2 Wizard it won't be viable for my first session or so.

I've got a fairly decent idea of how to play this character as a concept once he has more tools.
But at level three he's still fairly stunted in his growth.

Also considering my concept is basically a magic user rogue, that might be why I'm thinking about playing him at this level as a rogue wtb options and not a Mage with extra skills.
Especially considering I won't have many spell slots.