Breaking Coupdegrace with 3.5/3.0/PF/3rd party

[Platymus Pus]

How often can you break certain concepts using the combination of pathfinder/PF 3rd party/3.5/3.0 alone for "mundanes" or how often do you actually play PF with 3.5 and 3.0 plugged into it?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/louis-porter-jr-design/general-feats---3rd-party---louis-porter-jr/immediate-coup-de-grace
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dastardly-finish-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/louis-porter-jr-design/combat-feats---3rd-party---louis-porter-jr/cold-blooded-killer-combat
+ Sudden Stunning weapon enhancement.
Allows you to coupe de grace anything not immune to stun(vs reflex save) by simply by hitting them once, the stun DC scaling with level and cha.

Hit then, activate stun as swift action, procs Immediate Coup de Grace as Immediate action, Cold-Blooded Killer ups DC of CdG and disintegrates them if they fail the save.
Apply some Kiss of the Grave poison on your blade for good measure.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030411a

The secondary damage causes immortal creatures, such as fey, to become mortal and renders all creatures unable to be raised or resurrected. The secondary damage is permanent and can be reversed only with a miracle or wish spell.

Making for a rather deadly assassin, but can we do better with everything from these sources in mind including spell,items,feats,and classes that can also proc in the same round if prepped?
(needs another swift action to work)

[noob]

Hit then, activate stun as swift action, procs Immediate Coup de Grace as Immediate action, Cold-Blooded Killer ups DC of CdG and disintegrates them if they fail the sav

The main problem is that you can not have both a swift and an immediate action with some readings of the rules(with the most normal one)

[Florian]

Dastardly Finish is nice, but not the end of that particular feat chain.
Look up the Slayer class and the class-specific feat: Merciless Butchery.

Edit:
If you want to break it, go Slayer VMC Monk.
If you are in a hurry, go Slayer 1/Ninja 5 VMC Monk. (w. feat retraining)
Stunning Fist followed by a swift action Merciless Butchery is fine.

[Platymus Pus]

The main problem is that you can not have both a swift and an immediate action with some readings of the rules(with the most normal one)

You can expend a swift action on your turn then an immediate right after your turn, but you lose the swift action for next turn and can't do it every round.

Dastardly Finish is nice, but not the end of that particular feat chain.
Look up the Slayer class and the class-specific feat: Merciless Butchery.

Edit:
If you want to break it, go Slayer VMC Monk.
If you are in a hurry, go Slayer 1/Ninja 5 VMC Monk. (w. feat retraining)
Stunning Fist followed by a swift action Merciless Butchery is fine.
That's an option, but what if I didn't want to use a fist? It's a great one if you plan to make Kenshiro.
But it only allows it once per day for every four levels you have. Meaning that the sudden stunning method I put out can be done more still overall and procs after hitting meaning you can pick and choose.
While you have to declare stunning fist before you attack and have to hit or it's wasted. :smallannoyed:
Also that option target's fort saves to proc stun which isn't that good at the end.
I don't see what the slayer does in that build can you explain it to me? Though it does have something rather nice for damage from one of it's talents.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/slayer/slayer-talents/rogue-genius-games---slayer-talents/executioner
This seems like it could stack with anything.

Do you have any other ideas? This is just theory craft after all. :smalltongue:

[Florian]

Studied Target is a prereq for Merciless Butchery. Only the Slayer class has that class feature.
Sadly, I must correct myself as I just re-checked my printed version with the PRD and they have changed that feat to be a standard action now.... (How I hate overlooking errata)

Edit: My basic thought at stuff like that is always how fast it can be done w/o item dependence.

[Platymus Pus]

Studied Target is a prereq for Merciless Butchery. Only the Slayer class has that class feature.
Sadly, I must correct myself as I just re-checked my printed version with the PRD and they have changed that feat to be a standard action now.... (How I hate overlooking errata)

Edit: My basic thought at stuff like that is always how fast it can be done w/o item dependence.

Items are always an option for me, else the game is only monks and wizards.
Even if it's a standard action you could do it with belt of battle, granted only once.

[Florian]

Items are always an option for me, else the game is only monks and wizards.
Even if it's a standard action you could do it with belt of battle, granted only once.

Sorry, wrote that when it was getting late and did´t get the point across. The way I meant it was: First I look if, how and how fast a thing can be done with a "naked" build, steps two then is to go into the details, that means how to upgrade it and how items will and can play into it.

Dastardly Finish sets the bar here, as it has a prereq of SA +5d6, meaning "pure" Rogue/Ninja 9 at its erliest. This could be lowered to 7th level by picking a class with a fast SA progression and slapping VMC Rogue onto it (Ex: Vivisectionist Alchemist VMC Rogue) or used on a class with a slow SA progression to equalize at at around level 11.
Merciless Butchery is basically a goodie, but one I want to have here. The feat has the Studied Target class feature as a prereq, but doesn´t specify class levels, meaning it can be done with "pure" Slayer class, dipping it or picking an archetype that has it.

That leaves a very weird list of base builds to work with:
- Slayer 1/Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 7 VMC Rogue.
- Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) 11 VMC Rogue.
- Druid (Nature Fang) 19 VMC Rogue (included just for a laugh)
- Slayer 1/Ninja 9 VMC Monk
- Slayer 11 VMC Rogue

[Platymus Pus]

Sorry, wrote that when it was getting late and did´t get the point across. The way I meant it was: First I look if, how and how fast a thing can be done with a "naked" build, steps two then is to go into the details, that means how to upgrade it and how items will and can play into it.

Dastardly Finish sets the bar here, as it has a prereq of SA +5d6, meaning "pure" Rogue/Ninja 9 at its erliest. This could be lowered to 7th level by picking a class with a fast SA progression and slapping VMC Rogue onto it (Ex: Vivisectionist Alchemist VMC Rogue) or used on a class with a slow SA progression to equalize at at around level 11.
Merciless Butchery is basically a goodie, but one I want to have here. The feat has the Studied Target class feature as a prereq, but doesn´t specify class levels, meaning it can be done with "pure" Slayer class, dipping it or picking an archetype that has it.

That leaves a very weird list of base builds to work with:
- Slayer 1/Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 7 VMC Rogue.
- Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer) 11 VMC Rogue.
- Druid (Nature Fang) 19 VMC Rogue (included just for a laugh)
- Slayer 1/Ninja 9 VMC Monk
- Slayer 11 VMC Rogue
Since coopdegrace is always a crit can't we find some things to proc off of crit as well in the rare cases it survives?
Also all this mentioning of Slayer and Ninja's is reminded me of Ninja Slayer. (https://youtu.be/S9Rs0QrdWhE?t=30s)

[Florian]

Since coopdegrace is always a crit can't we find some things to proc off of crit as well in the rare cases it survives?

Bashing Finish would be an option for this. Crit triggers a Shield Bash with added SA. The crux here is the BAB +11 requirement, though, making it a late-game goodie.
But I doubt anything will survive the first attack w/o being crit immune.

Edit and some joking around:

Visited the local store after work, finally got me copy of "In Hells Bright Shadow" and flipped through it on the train ride home. Still having had my previous idea in mind and adapting it to an actual setting, I´ve come up with this:

"Angry Citizen" (Aka Rorschach)

Male Human Ninja 10 / Slayer 6 - VMC Monk. PB 15.
Relevant non-feat tricks: Fast Stealth, Terrain Mastery (Hell, Urban, Underground), Unarmed Combat Mastery.
Feats: Deadly Finish, Dragon Ferocity, Dragon Roar, Dragon Style, Extreme Prejudice, Horn of the Criosphinx, Improved Unarmed Strike, Merciless Butchery, Seething Hatred (Evil Outsiders), Seething Hatred (Humans), Stunning Fist.
Virtual Monk level for IUAS: 20
PB15 base stats (unoptimized (w. +2 STR/+1 CON level up)): STR16, DEX14, CON14, INT10, WIS12, CHA10.
Basic Equipment: Amulett of Mighty Fist +5, Slayer´s Cassock, Lenses of the Predator´s Gaze, Bloodstained Gloves, Belt of Physical Might +6 (STR/DEX), Headband of Wisdom +6.

A basic (first) hit against a seething hatred target would be 2d10+5 plus 12 (STR) plus 9 (Studied) plus 7d8 (Precision), averaging 50 dmg, and setting the save DC for an average CdG to 107.