Elan most optimal usage

[David Demola]

Of course, bards do have a place within a group (An almost useless place), but I want to hear about non-traditional settings that using a bard could be a huge advantage (Traditional Settings: Boosting stats, fighting, and anything else that is just straight-foreward play).

I don't think I explained what I mean well enough, so I'll provide an example:

A bard and a rogue are grouped together. In order to steal from people (or assassinate people, as the case may be), the bard incessantly plays his lute until the target of the rogue is compelled to focus on the bard. This gives way for the distraction that the rogue needs to do his/her job (killing, stealing, planting an item, etc.)

Basically, what I really want to know is: if a pair of PCs are forced together, and one of them has to be a bard, how could each other class use the bard's skills to their greater advantage? Feel free to go as far or as short with this as you desire.

EDIT: I decided to change the thread so it's not just a shot at people with theories about the comic

[teratorn]

:hinjo: «smite spammer!»

EDIT: wow, there is no Hinjo smilie?

[Artega]

Ignoring your gross misuse of conventional/sane grammar and spelling, I have to ask, what proof do you have to back this up or are you just speculating without proof?

Belkar doesn't seem like the type that would take up a class that involves HELPING others or PCs even. Durkon? Well, from what I understand (and I could be wrong) you have to be a Paladin and has fallen before you can turn Blackguard. Durkon has become neither. He is in fact a Cleric to the god Thor, and as such it would be impossible for that to happen unless he began to multi-class. Which I highly doubt.

Well, the threads thing has changed. And if people are like me (which I hope not, or else we're all in trouble) then they'll skim the first 3-5 posts and miss the mention that there was something here before that.

In terms of the -new- topic....
You've got the classic, sidewalk musician who's trying to earn some cash. Throw in a dancer of sorts and you've got a show.

[Sage in the Playground]

Ignoring your gross misuse of conventional/sane grammar and spelling, I have to ask, what proof do you have to back this up or are you just speculating without proof?

Belkar doesn't seem like the type that would take up a class that involves HELPING others or PCs even. Durkon? Well, from what I understand (and I could be wrong) you have to be a Paladin and has fallen before you can turn Blackguard. Durkon has become neither. He is in fact a Cleric to the god Thor, and as such it would be impossible for that to happen unless he began to multi-class. Which I highly doubt.

You missed the "Lord Of All That Is Parody" part didn't you?

In the only part of his post typed correctly?

[Thanatos 51-50]

I'm going to assume thats a jab at all the random theories coming out of nowhere. With that in mind, I'm going to laugh and give you kudos.
If not, I will have to back up the smite spammer with a Sneak attack.

[David Demola]

Disregard the above posts...I wasn't aware that anyone had actually sent in replies before I edited this thread to be completely different (it was originally a proverbial stab at people who make theories). To those four, I aporogize.

[Regneva]

Ignoring your gross misuse of conventional/sane grammar and spelling, I have to ask, what proof do you have to back this up or are you just speculating without proof?

Belkar doesn't seem like the type that would take up a class that involves HELPING others or PCs even. Durkon? Well, from what I understand (and I could be wrong) you have to be a Paladin and has fallen before you can turn Blackguard. Durkon has become neither. He is in fact a Cleric to the god Thor, and as such it would be impossible for that to happen unless he began to multi-class. Which I highly doubt.

Are you sure you are in the right thread? I see no mention of durkon as a black guard or even bad grammar.

[Sage in the Playground]

Are you sure you are in the right thread? I see no mention of durkon as a black guard or even bad grammar.

The meaning of the thread and the OP's post have been completely changed.

[David Demola]

read My Other Comment, Three Comments Above This One, Before Replying

[teratorn]

Are you sure you are in the right thread? I see no mention of durkon as a black guard or even bad grammar.

Well, this thread original tittle was a theory about Belkar and Durkon... Now it's Elan and in a few moments it will be about Haley and V...

EDIT Hey Mr Demola, no need to shout. This gives me an AOO!

[David Demola]

Well, this thread original tittle was a theory about Belkar and Durkon... Now it's Elan and in a few moments it will be about Haley and V...

EDIT Hey Mr Demola, no need to shout. This gives me an AOO!

haha, sorry, the number of replies were "0" on my screen, so I just decided to change the thread. It wasn't until after I changed it that I saw your guys' comments and went "Ah...my bad." By then it was a little too late to adjust. As for the yelling, I was trying to make sure that people weren't going to incessantly reply about how your guys' posts were "off topic" (because my change made them that way.)

[teratorn]

Well, the thread has derailed and now it will be tough to put it back on track.

Bard as Elan are not only use-impaired.
:roy: «I tend to see Elan more as an obstacle that this team overcomes on a regular basis.»

Having seen the order if I ever get to find enough DnD players around here to get a game going, and one of them decides to be a bard, I'll kill him on the spot.

[Erk]

are you kidding? Elan is not good at being a bard, but bards are actually an extremely handy character class. In a party with more than a handful of players, the bard can offer pretty substantial persistant bonuses to all kinds of situations, and their general versatility in all fields lets them be useful backups for the major characters, or gap-fillers for whatever positions are missing (skill monkey in a rogueless party, healer in a cleric-free group, et cetera). Bards are awesome. Elan is just not meant to be an example of how to play one optimally... none of the OOTS players are particularly optimised.

[thehothead]

... Um... bard with say... Cleric. They could like... sing about a god while the cleric... y'know... showed how awesome the god is.

[Angafirith]

Hey. Bards are actually pretty useful, it's just that Elan-type bards are not. Keep in mind that Elan is not written to be a good bard. And, in truth, it's funnier this way.


Both the bard and the rogue put on ragged clothing and go begging. The bard plays his instrument horribly, while the rogue does a disguise check to appear pregnant. There's a sign up that says "BLIND, DEAF, PREGNANT".

People give them money.

[kpenguin]

Diplomacy: Why kill the dragon when you just need to make a check to make him your friend?

[teratorn]

are you kidding?

I was just trying to save the thread. Probably not worth the effort. After the mods get their hands on the "Miho thread" the forums will be empty.

But the tittle is "Elan most optimal usage". So the question is in fact how can one use a bard as dumb as Elan? I'd say his best use was in the early strips as sword holder. Oh, and fixing doors!

[EdgarVerona]

I appreciate Elan for his ability to be used as a battering ram when you fail to open a locked door.

... they haven't done that yet? Well, they're wasting a valuable resource! ;)

[Thanatos 51-50]

Optimal usgae of Elan?
Currently, it seems like dropping any ability raises into CHA and leveling up his Dashing Swordsman would be excellent.
Early strips - Its a little known fact that Elan had mximum ranks in Perform (Flase Uselessness), which gave the enemy a -2 on all rolls made against him. He has since stopped using that skill.

Bards are extremly useful charecters, especially if their Perform ranks are in Vocal, or some other loose, non-combat affecting action.
I'm currently in a froum RP on another site with two bards. (Also, two rogues, one of which is a complete and total cat burgler build, with almost no "social" skills [Sleight of Hand being the exception])

[Killer595]

Juggernaut...need more be said? A bard's plenty good on his own, or with just about any character, if he's used right.

[Chronos]

We actually just saw in the comic a situation where a bard is a huge asset, worth far more than any other character class. Unfortunately, Elan basically flubbed the opportunity.

That situation is a very large battle. A bard can Inspire Courage in all allies who can hear him, and can continue to do so indefinitely, as long as he keeps singing. I was actually just working the math this morning, and given some basic assumptions about the typical Azurite defenders and the hobgoblins, a bard of Elan's level would represent a force multiplier of about 68%. That is to say, a force of 100 low-level defenders, plus Elan, would be about as effective as a force of 168 low-level defenders, without Elan. This scales linearly with the number of allies, so if there are 1000 soldiers who can hear him, then putting Elan on the walls is equivalent to putting an extra 680 soldiers there. I can't think of any other class, even at 20th level, which can be worth as much as 680 soldiers.

[fangthane]

We actually just saw in the comic a situation where a bard is a huge asset, worth far more than any other character class. Unfortunately, Elan basically flubbed the opportunity.

That situation is a very large battle. A bard can Inspire Courage in all allies who can hear him, and can continue to do so indefinitely, as long as he keeps singing. I was actually just working the math this morning, and given some basic assumptions about the typical Azurite defenders and the hobgoblins, a bard of Elan's level would represent a force multiplier of about 68%. That is to say, a force of 100 low-level defenders, plus Elan, would be about as effective as a force of 168 low-level defenders, without Elan. This scales linearly with the number of allies, so if there are 1000 soldiers who can hear him, then putting Elan on the walls is equivalent to putting an extra 680 soldiers there. I can't think of any other class, even at 20th level, which can be worth as much as 680 soldiers.

An arcane caster with access to fireball, DBF, Meteor Swarm, Horrid Wilting and Gate can account for a lot more dead enemies than several hundred basic soldiers. Quick math shows that assuming a fairly tight rank of enemies (1 square meter per opponent) such a caster could affect (and essentially outright kill) up to 300 opponents with a single casting. Even at about half that (assuming 5 foot spacing), a level 20 caster has far more devastating potential.

A level 20 divine caster can cast up to 4 firestorms without a wisdom bonus, each affecting 40 cubic sections of 10' dimension each - for a low-end figure of 160 deaths per casting, and a potential (assuming closer spacing for the march/assault) for far more.

The longer the battle lasts, of course, the better the bard begins to look since Courage can indeed be maintained indefinitely - but in most of my sessions, massive area effects typically have a greater impact in terms of negative enemy morale than bardic effects in terms of positive friendly morale. At least, when the bard-boosted archers took down a couple hundred orcs in a round, it didn't faze them in the same way as when the firestorms and wiltings took down their heavies (ogres and hill giants mainly).

[Chronos]

Actually, I think that for an arcane caster, the best choice in a battle like this is an Enlarged Fear. It's a lot lower level than Meteor Swarm et al., so you can cast more of them, and a cone spell (especially an enlarged one!) has a huge area at high levels. The same could be said of Cone of Cold, but I think that panicking large numbers of enemies would throw more chaos into the enemy army than killing the same number, and do more in the long run. But of course, a bard is basically a walking pile of morale effects, and used cleverly and subtly, could probably achieve much the same effect. Or even better, the bard and the caster worked together (again, very subtly and cleverly), they could probably build off each other to panic an entire army.

By the way, what's DBF? The name doesn't seem familiar to me.

[busterswd]

Bards can be pretty competent:

Give a bard a high dexterity and charisma.

Give him a bow, point blank/rapid shot.

A bard won't learn anything outirght destructive like magic missiles, though they actually do learn a good variety of "cure wounds" spells and some utility spells like blindness/deafness.

You've now got a ranged specialist with some defensive spells, AoE attack boosts, and a good amount of skill points to play around with.