Drider Alchemist! Or, What the heck am I doing? Advice needed.

[Cranthis]

So I've decided to play a Drider Alchemist. I'm fairly set on going mad bomber style, despite Drider being a great Mister Hyde. But other than taking discoveries for Precise, Void Bomb, and Black Star bomb, I have no idea what I'm doing!
We are using 25 point buy, and I know I need Intelligence and Dexterity.
Other than that, I desperately need your excellent advice. I've done some research, so I know most of the Alchemist class, I'm just not sure what feats and things I would want.

Sidenote, but relevant, do Extracts ignore spell resistance?

[Psyren]

Have you tried an (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/dr-strangelob/) alchemist (http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2015/11/zeniths-guide-to-alchemist-part-i.html) handbook? (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hChbcEsEfQsR7NkwKlzO-GLYtrOtxlkGHpRQgKKZ5gc/edit) Pretty much all of them include bomber-specific advice, since that is what base alchemists usually end up doing.



Sidenote, but relevant, do Extracts ignore spell resistance?

On other creatures no, but if you're talking about yourself, you automatically overcome your own SR, so drink up.

[Spore]

Friendly advices for this combo:

1) Get at least one (ranged and melee) way to attack other than bombs. You don't want to bomb and use extracts on every small minion. I like a crossbow/bow with your drider poison applied to it (it doesn't work that way but convince your DM, you have an insane Craft Alchemy check you can make to stabilize it). And a finesse weapon with the appropriate feat.

2) Think twice on two weapon fighting and throwing two bombs per round. Your bombs are a limited ressource and the only thing that feat makes is use them quicker (possibly avoiding damage to your allies). If you find yourself constantly lacking in bombs, don't take it. Likewise, Intelligence is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than Dexterity. It's a BOMB after all. You'll hit SOMETHING.

3) GET THE INFUSION DISCOVERY! Even if your character isn't one for sharing power, it is half of the classes's utility to hand out extract buffs.

4) All three guides don't cover the released latest extracts and archetypes. There is much undiscovered potential.

Which brings me to the final and most important question: What should your character be good at? How is his/her disposition towards helping a group? What does your group bring to the table. The worst build is only the worst one in a vacuum. I've learned that many builds are insane in the right circumstances.

[Malimar]

1) Get at least one (ranged and melee) way to attack other than bombs. You don't want to bomb and use extracts on every small minion. I like a crossbow/bow with your drider poison applied to it (it doesn't work that way but convince your DM, you have an insane Craft Alchemy check you can make to stabilize it). And a finesse weapon with the appropriate feat.

I could have sworn there was a feat somewhere (possibly in 3.5) that allowed you to apply your natural poison to a manufactured weapon, but I can't find it, so probably I made it up. Or maybe I'm remembering some creature that's described as applying its bite poison to a manufactured weapon and extrapolating that it's possible from that. I dunno!

I did find the Poison Spell feat in 3.5's Drow of the Underdark that let you use a dose of poison as a material component to add the poison to a spell, which could be great fun if you can persuade your DM to (a) allow it and (b) allow it to apply to your bombs.

[Cranthis]

Have you tried an (http://pathfinder.ogrehut.com/2010/07/dr-strangelob/) alchemist (http://zenithgames.blogspot.com/2015/11/zeniths-guide-to-alchemist-part-i.html) handbook? (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hChbcEsEfQsR7NkwKlzO-GLYtrOtxlkGHpRQgKKZ5gc/edit) Pretty much all of them include bomber-specific advice, since that is what base alchemists usually end up doing.

On other creatures no, but if you're talking about yourself, you automatically overcome your own SR, so drink up.
I had found N.Jolly's, but I find its always good to ask for advice around here. Sometimes people find things the handbooks either didn't cover, or came out after the handbook.


1) Get at least one (ranged and melee) way to attack other than bombs. You don't want to bomb and use extracts on every small minion. I like a crossbow/bow with your drider poison applied to it (it doesn't work that way but convince your DM, you have an insane Craft Alchemy check you can make to stabilize it). And a finesse weapon with the appropriate feat.
I believe I will use the Grenadier archetype and take a longbow. However, the playable Drider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/very-powerful-races-31-rp/drider-35-rp) Doesn't actually get the monster Drider's poison.

2) Think twice on two weapon fighting and throwing two bombs per round. Your bombs are a limited ressource and the only thing that feat makes is use them quicker (possibly avoiding damage to your allies). If you find yourself constantly lacking in bombs, don't take it. Likewise, Intelligence is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than Dexterity. It's a BOMB after all. You'll hit SOMETHING.
I will consider this. I won't be able to take TWF until level 9, so I'll have time to think.

3) GET THE INFUSION DISCOVERY! Even if your character isn't one for sharing power, it is half of the classes's utility to hand out extract buffs.
This I'm already planning on. The Grenadier Archetype gets Precise bombs for free, and still allows you take another discovery, at 2nd level, so there is no reason to wait on infusion.

4) All three guides don't cover the released latest extracts and archetypes. There is much undiscovered potential.
I will be looking through these, of course; I always ask around for advice here to see if there are any important bases to cover that the handbooks don't have.


Which brings me to the final and most important question: What should your character be good at? How is his/her disposition towards helping a group? What does your group bring to the table. The worst build is only the worst one in a vacuum. I've learned that many builds are insane in the right circumstances.
For now, this is a backup character. If my current character dies, then this one will slide into the campaign quite nicely, and work well with everyone. If not this campaign, then the next one we have already planned to talk about our characters and make sure we all work together and can get along, for the most part.


I could have sworn there was a feat somewhere (possibly in 3.5) that allowed you to apply your natural poison to a manufactured weapon, but I can't find it, so probably I made it up. Or maybe I'm remembering some creature that's described as applying its bite poison to a manufactured weapon and extrapolating that it's possible from that. I dunno!

I did find the Poison Spell feat in 3.5's Drow of the Underdark that let you use a dose of poison as a material component to add the poison to a spell, which could be great fun if you can persuade your DM to (a) allow it and (b) allow it to apply to your bombs.
Unfortunately, the playable Drider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/very-powerful-races-31-rp/drider-35-rp) doesn't get a natural poison.

[Malimar]

Unfortunately, the playable Drider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/very-powerful-races-31-rp/drider-35-rp) doesn't get a natural poison.

Alas. :smallfrown:

[Psyren]

I had found N.Jolly's, but I find its always good to ask for advice around here. Sometimes people find things the handbooks either didn't cover, or came out after the handbook.
...
I will be looking through these, of course; I always ask around for advice here to see if there are any important bases to cover that the handbooks don't have.


While it's certainly true that handbooks aren't perfect, it's always a good idea to go to them first. That focuses the discussion - you can come to the forums with a question about a recommendation that a handbook made that you don't understand, or to help you choose between two options that the handbook gave an equal rating, or help you understand why the handbook gave something a poor rating, or actually throw a build together and ask if you're missing anything.

When it's wide open it comes across as "build me an alchemist" - which someone may very well take you up on, but it's a tall order for such a versatile class.

[Spore]

How is your stance on debuffing bombs? I feel like direct explosions would only be used when cornered or surprised. Otherwise a drider - especially a clever one - would use it's bombs to buff and debuff (well okay, just debuff).

I'm thinking along the lines of Poison Bomb, Stink Bomb, Force Bomb or Frost Bomb. Featwise I would concentrate on feats that augment your archery and have a benefit on your bombs too: Rapid Shot, Precise Shot (otherwise -4 into melee, for bombs too!), Point Blank Shot (prereq.), Deadly Aim is debatable but very good. Improved Precise Shot can synergize very well with Smoke Bomb. Also remember that special debuffing bombs still do their normal bomb damage.

For extracts you can use Potions of Divine Power and Potions of Wrath (Inquisitor spell) to up your damage and to-hit. You can use 50 GP Potions if you use Alchemical Allocation along with the Enhance Potion discovery.

12/16/12/17/8/10 after boni 14/18/14/17/10/10 Increases poured into Int.

1) Point Blank Shot Discovery 1) Precise Bombs
Discovery 2) Infusion
3) Precise Shot
Discovery 4) Smoke Bomb
5) Deadly Aim
Discovery 6) Enhance Potion
7) Rapid Shot
Discovery 8) Void Bomb
9) TWF?
Discovery 10) Blackstar Bomb
11) Extra Discovery Wings?
Discovery 12) Poison Bomb

This build is a bit heavy on the archery side. If your adventuring days are shorter you can focus on bombs but if your days are longer you should really save the bombs for critical situations.

[Cranthis]

How is your stance on debuffing bombs? I feel like direct explosions would only be used when cornered or surprised. Otherwise a drider - especially a clever one - would use it's bombs to buff and debuff.

I'm thinking along the lines of Poison Bomb, Stink Bomb, Force Bomb or Frost Bomb. Featwise I would concentrate on feats that augment your archery and have a benefit on your bombs too: Rapid Shot, Precise Shot (otherwise -4 into melee, for bombs too!), Point Blank Shot (prereq.), Deadly Aim is debatable but very good. Improved Precise Shot can synergize very well with Smoke Bomb.

Also remember that special debuffing bombs still do their normal bomb damage.

Well if we are talking about the fluff itself, then its not exactly a Drowder. Its a RegularElfider. The fluff is mostly that she was kidnapped, alchemicaly experimented on, etc. This turned her into a drider, and so she turned to alchemy to find a cure. For now, the only bomb specifics I have planned are Void Bomb and Blackstar bomb; if no other reason than they seem super fun. So far I'm thinking the first three levels are Point Blank Shot, Infusion, and Precise Shot. 4th level is a blank, so I might go either smoke bomb, as you suggest, or explosive missile. Due to the Archetype I'll be using, Grenadier, I'll be losing all of the poison specific things for alchemist, so Poison bomb may not be for me.

[Spore]

The bombs are not physical poison but rather a magical effect. Similarly a Wizard casting Stinking Cloud does not need ranks in Craft (Alchemy). And your alchemy class feature still works without the poison immunity and the poison use, meaning you can create in a lab but are very uncomfortable using it in the field.

You could go for Enhance Potion on 4 and for Fly on 6 then. Flight is very important and having it in increments this early on means a major advantage. And there are several flying spider types. What do you care about looks? You are a giant freaking man-spider anyhow.