The Dark Tower movie

[Telonius]

I'm a longtime fan of the book series - I picked up a copy of The Gunslinger somewhere around 1990. Usually the words "Film adaptation of a Stephen King book" fill me with as much terror as the books themselves. But I'm cautiously optimistic for this one. There's a pretty big name playing Roland: Idris Elba (http://www.inquisitr.com/2706711/the-dark-tower-officially-casts-idris-elba-as-roland-deschain-release-date-of-january-2017-confirmed/).

Release date is reportedly January 2017.

[The Glyphstone]

Oh, c'mon, some of them are good.

Running Man is a delicious Ahnold-filled cheese-fest, even if it diverges heavily from the source story. IT is still terrifying to this day, and Carrie is excellent. And let's not forget The Shawshank Redemption. Pet Semetary was okay. The Shining is very divisive, but remains an iconic horror film.

Now on topic - while I expect the nonsense from the Harry Potter play thread to shortly flood into here, I think this could be a good idea. Idris Elba definitely impressed me in both of the supporting roles I've seen him in, Pacific Rim and Thor, and I'm curious to see how he busts out the acting chops in a lead role like Roland.

On the other hand, I'm skeptical as to the overall quality of the movie, simply due to the sheer length of its source material. They might be able to cover, at best, the first book or two in a single movie. If they try and tell the whole saga in two hours, even heavily trimmed down, it'll be awful beyond belief. A miniseries would have been my preference, as they were originally considering.

[Legato Endless]

I certainly wouldn't expect the film to cover anything more a fusion of books 1 and 2. Elba crossing the land pursuing a man and interspersed with flashbacks to his past would work well enough for a standard feature, but the sequel having a more conventional fantasy plot probably makes it more palatable in the age of fantasy films. So Roland gathering up his party after getting the vision at the end of act 1 seems plausible. As for the adaption debate, I prefer the film of The Shining, and frankly Kubrick is a better storyteller in general. An adaptation that takes similar pragmatic changes, particularly with the later parts of the saga, would suit me just fine.

[Cristo Meyers]

I'm a longtime fan of the book series - I picked up a copy of The Gunslinger somewhere around 1990. Usually the words "Film adaptation of a Stephen King book" fill me with as much terror as the books themselves. But I'm cautiously optimistic for this one. There's a pretty big name playing Roland: Idris Elba (http://www.inquisitr.com/2706711/the-dark-tower-officially-casts-idris-elba-as-roland-deschain-release-date-of-january-2017-confirmed/).

Release date is reportedly January 2017.

Ya know, the more I think about it, the more I'm be hard-pressed to think of someone better to play Roland.

I don't hold out much hope for the movie itself, though. The source material is just too vast and adaptations are tricky enough as it is. Plus I think this one has been stewing in Development Hell for a while, if I remember correctly.

[Darth Credence]

I like Idris Elba, but if there was ever a book series in which it matters that the main character is white, this is one. If he is not white, then Detta has to change radically, and Odetta needs to change a bit. Probably won't matter when they get to Susannah, but Drawing of the Three will pretty much be unrecognizable with this change.

The people in the HP thread who brought up that it won't change Hermione's character are completely correct. And this won't change Roland's character, either. But it will have to change other characters, in a way that will change the entire story. I'm fine with that change to the story, but I can certainly see this as being one of the few cases where people complaining about it have a pretty valid point.

ETA: Had I been casting, I would have gone with Timothy Olyphant. Clint Eastwood was a major inspiration for the character in the first place. Since he is unlikely to do it, Olyphant seems to me to be the next best proven to be able to pull off the role. He has played similar roles on Justified and Deadwood.

[Cristo Meyers]

I like Idris Elba, but if there was ever a book series in which it matters that the main character is white, this is one. If he is not white, then Detta has to change radically, and Odetta needs to change a bit. Probably won't matter when they get to Susannah, but Drawing of the Three will pretty much be unrecognizable with this change.

The people in the HP thread who brought up that it won't change Hermione's character are completely correct. And this won't change Roland's character, either. But it will have to change other characters, in a way that will change the entire story. I'm fine with that change to the story, but I can certainly see this as being one of the few cases where people complaining about it have a pretty valid point.

I dunno. I can see what you're saying, but I think that part is played out more in the relationship between Eddie and her rather than Roland. Roland's an Other because he's from a completely different world presumably without the racial baggage ours has. He's a fish out of water compared to Eddie and Detta/Odetta. Having him be black as well would reinforce that point.

I will admit that it's been a while since I read any of the Dark Tower novels, so my not being able to see how Detta needs to change might be chalked up to a foggy memory though.

[McStabbington]

I like Idris Elba, but if there was ever a book series in which it matters that the main character is white, this is one. If he is not white, then Detta has to change radically, and Odetta needs to change a bit. Probably won't matter when they get to Susannah, but Drawing of the Three will pretty much be unrecognizable with this change.

The people in the HP thread who brought up that it won't change Hermione's character are completely correct. And this won't change Roland's character, either. But it will have to change other characters, in a way that will change the entire story. I'm fine with that change to the story, but I can certainly see this as being one of the few cases where people complaining about it have a pretty valid point.

ETA: Had I been casting, I would have gone with Timothy Olyphant. Clint Eastwood was a major inspiration for the character in the first place. Since he is unlikely to do it, Olyphant seems to me to be the next best proven to be able to pull off the role. He has played similar roles on Justified and Deadwood.

I think it could definitely work; believe it or not, African-Americans have a complicated relationship with others of African descent who never went through the particular difficulties African-Americans faced, and that could easily infuse Detta Walker with the necessary animosity. I do admit that our stereotypical average movie viewers Joanne and Cletus ("We see three movies a year! And Driving Miss Daisy is the best movie about race relations ever!") might have a hard time keeping up with that. But the times, they are a changing, and there are plenty of movies just this year that showed Joanne and Cletus are being displaced as average viewers by people who are perfectly comfortable seeing movies that just happen to star African-Americans. IIRC, Creed turned a profit, and the viewing that I went to was almost sold out, and I live in one of the most stereotypically white areas in the country.

And I think that Idris Elba is a fantastic choice. Roland Deschain is a very difficult character to get right, especially in the early books, just because there's so much going on underneath the external hardness. I recall thinking by the end of Book I that I wasn't sure whether I liked Roland; by Book IV, I thought he was one of the best characters ever written in genre fiction. In a lot of ways, he's very much like Severus Snape, and you need someone of Elba's charisma and steel to get viewers to wade through the early parts to get to the backstory to see how Roland became the Gunslinger he is. Offhand, I'm trying to think of actors with the sheer presence to pull off the character, and I'm having difficulty thinking of actors still working who could do it. Connery could have done it, as could Gene Hackman. But today? Elba's on a very short list.

[Darth Credence]

At the very least, she will have to not call him a honky mofo all the time. And while I know of the complicated relationship you are talking about, that is fairly recent. Detta is pulled from the civil rights struggle of the 1960s, and she clearly sees white men as the devil, and it informs why she refuses to eat. Without making major changes to her character, Detta would accept food from a black Roland, wouldn't be continually fighting against him as they try and move her, and so on. In addition, Detta hardly had any realization of the fact that she was no longer in her own world during The Drawing of the Three, at least until they get closer to the last door. If Roland is speaking American English, then I can't see any reason she would have to believe he was anything other than an African American.

They can get around this, sure. Idris Elba is a great actor, and I'm sure he will do a great job in the role. But it absolutely will require changing the Detta/Odetta character substantially from what it is in the book. Move her to modern times where distrust of people without the same background makes sense, and you lose her connection to the civil rights struggle and the JFK assassination. Just have her distrust Roland for no clear reason, and you lose the sympathy for what she has gone through.

[josienoms]

What if she distrusts Roland because he's, in her eyes, an Uncle Tom? He's working with the white man, after all, not trying to help her escape.

[Hawk7915]

Thinking about it thanks to this thread, I can see the angle of Roland not "getting" Detta/Odetta's fury because he's not African American (or any of it, but that particular point would be a sticking point to the character) and that causing her to distrust and hate him while he himself is completely mystified as to why there's any tension at all between Eddie and Odetta/Detta. It's not a particularly major change, and overall I think Idris Elba is a really solid choice to play Roland says Eastwood is way, way too old now.

I'm pretty lukewarm on the movie as a whole, though. It's just too much for the screen despite being so inspired by cinema.

[Telonius]

In a lot of ways, he's very much like Severus Snape, and you need someone of Elba's charisma and steel to get viewers to wade through the early parts to get to the backstory to see how Roland became the Gunslinger he is.

I know I've got Rickman on my mind, but man, he would have been a phenomenal Walter O'Dim.

[Cristo Meyers]

I know I've got Rickman on my mind, but man, he would have been a phenomenal Walter O'Dim.

Oh Lord... ouch... right in the feels. You're right, he'd been absolutely stellar for that character.

[DoctorFaust]

I'm a longtime fan of the book series - I picked up a copy of The Gunslinger somewhere around 1990. Usually the words "Film adaptation of a Stephen King book" fill me with as much terror as the books themselves. But I'm cautiously optimistic for this one. There's a pretty big name playing Roland: Idris Elba (http://www.inquisitr.com/2706711/the-dark-tower-officially-casts-idris-elba-as-roland-deschain-release-date-of-january-2017-confirmed/).

Release date is reportedly January 2017.

Huh. Elba, while a very good actor, would definitely not have been my first choice for the part. Honestly, if this were ten years ago, I would say that Viggo Mortensen would be perfect for the role, and he may well still be depending on how old you picture Roland as, but nowadays I would've expected the part to go to someone like Matthew Mcconaughey or Michael Fassbender.

[McStabbington]

Huh. Elba, while a very good actor, would definitely not have been my first choice for the part. Honestly, if this were ten years ago, I would say that Viggo Mortensen would be perfect for the role, and he may well still be depending on how old you picture Roland as, but nowadays I would've expected the part to go to someone like Matthew Mcconaughey or Michael Fassbender.

"All right, all right, all right! Long days and pleasant nights, y'all!"

I think Mortenson might still be able to do it, though he was not on my list. I would put him below Daniel Craig.

[thorgrim29]

Looks like I might have to bite the bullet and read Dark Tower if it's the next big movie series... About the casting from what I hear Roland is basically a Clint Eastwood character right? So the main attribute would be a sort of quiet understated menace coming from him at all times. I haven't see Beast of no nation yet so maybe he proves it there but Elba doesn't really bring that to the table in what I've seen. I think he'd make a great James Bond though since that requires more charisma and bombast.

Mortensen might be able to bring it yeah but not Fassbender, Slow West was a boring movie (pretty much all the action is in the trailer, never a good sign) and he wasn't all that good in it so I can't endorse him as a western character.

[JoshL]

I'm pleased with Elba as Roland. I like him as an actor, and while it does change some things, none of the most important parts of the story need to be that different. I would have gone with Matthew McConaughey on looks alone, but there was some talk of him playing Walter o'Dim. There is also talk of him playing Flagg in the Stand adaptation, and if that happens, I WILL BE SO HAPPY!!!

[kingzerno]

Hate to say it, but I'm falling into the anti-Elba camp. A huge part of the starting relationship between Detta and Roland was because he was white and I thinking changing that will dramatically alter the exchanges that the two have. To the point that they might need to re-write the detta character.

I'm not sure who I would put in the lead role, though there have been some good suggestions already.

[Dragonus45]

I'm really torn on this one, on the one hand Elba is easily one of my favorite actors ever after Pacific Rim but on the other it feels like there would be a lot that would need to change in the character relationships. Although they are going to have to change so much to make the adaptation work I suppose that would be inevitable anyways. Although to be honest the first person I would think of for the role would me Liam Neeson.


EDIT Just had an interesting thought, what if they play with it by having Detta be a racist white woman? Keeps the racial tensions intact.

[McStabbington]

That could work, but it'd be difficult to do without then also race-lifting Eddie. I don't know that there's anything per se wrong with that, but I can't imagine that any writer of that second movie is going to like the prospect about writing a woman with one part of a split personality being a raging racist and a black heroin junkie. It's very easy to see that go very wrong very quickly. I don't think it's fatal, but man it's so easy to see that veer into very uncomfortable places.

[Dragonus45]

That could work, but it'd be difficult to do without then also race-lifting Eddie. I don't know that there's anything per se wrong with that, but I can't imagine that any writer of that second movie is going to like the prospect about writing a woman with one part of a split personality being a raging racist and a black heroin junkie. It's very easy to see that go very wrong very quickly. I don't think it's fatal, but man it's so easy to see that veer into very uncomfortable places.

True, for a moment there I actually forgot Eddie existed. Still it would be interesting to see them trying to take on the idea if nothing else.

[Sholos]

I'm really torn on this one, on the one hand Elba is easily one of my favorite actors ever after Pacific Rim but on the other it feels like there would be a lot that would need to change in the character relationships. Although they are going to have to change so much to make the adaptation work I suppose that would be inevitable anyways. Although to be honest the first person I would think of for the role would me Liam Neeson.


EDIT Just had an interesting thought, what if they play with it by having Detta be a racist white woman? Keeps the racial tensions intact.

The problem I with that suggestion is that the difference between a white person from the South hating blacks is just a bit different from a black person being distrustful of whites. I don't really see how the former is expected to change whereas the latter makes sense once she realizes that Roland isn't like every other white person she's known her entire life.

[Dragonus45]

The problem I with that suggestion is that the difference between a white person from the South hating blacks is just a bit different from a black person being distrustful of whites. I don't really see how the former is expected to change whereas the latter makes sense once she realizes that Roland isn't like every other white person she's known her entire life.

Presumably she would change the same place Detta did in the story, when the split personalities get merged into a third person the composite isn't racist.

[sengmeng]

I wonder if they'll give Elba contacts so he can have those "faded blue bullshooter's eyes"

Maybe then Detta would look at him as something other than black or white, but rather in between?

[Blackhawk748]

Firstly, i havent read the Dark Tower Series, but i am aware of the Deta character. Secondly, my choice for a hard bitten gunslinger is Jackie Earle Haley (he was Rorschach in Watchmen) as i thought he did an excellent Rorschach, and hes one of the most hard bitten characters i know of.

With all of that being said, Elba's done good work and i think he will do well. Deta will have to get rewritten a bit, but they can probably still make it work.

[Rodin]

I picked up the Dark Tower after hearing all the hype about it (mainly from Dr. McNinja), and....I couldn't get into it. Everything in the opening chapters is this thoroughly depressing trek across a wasteland, and it didn't give me a reason to care about anybody. I tried a couple times, but just didn't "get" it. Does the style change later into the book, or something?

And I say this as someone who loved both The Shining and 11/22/63, so it's not just Stephen King's writing style as a whole that's throwing me off.

[Cristo Meyers]

I picked up the Dark Tower after hearing all the hype about it (mainly from Dr. McNinja), and....I couldn't get into it. Everything in the opening chapters is this thoroughly depressing trek across a wasteland, and it didn't give me a reason to care about anybody. I tried a couple times, but just didn't "get" it. Does the style change later into the book, or something?

And I say this as someone who loved both The Shining and 11/22/63, so it's not just Stephen King's writing style as a whole that's throwing me off.

It's been a long time since I picked up the first book while waiting for some pictures to get developed, but from what I do remember: yes, book 2 is very different. Book 1 is kinda minimal, book 2 is a lot more fleshed-out and has a lot more in the way of characterization.

[McStabbington]

It's been a long time since I picked up the first book while waiting for some pictures to get developed, but from what I do remember: yes, book 2 is very different. Book 1 is kinda minimal, book 2 is a lot more fleshed-out and has a lot more in the way of characterization.

Very much so. Book I struck me as exceedingly well-written about a character that I found barely tolerable, if not one I was actively hostile towards. Book II, however, did an astonishing job of opening up the character and showing that there was far more to this character than merely an implacable drive to kill Walter O'Dim and find the Tower. It actually forced me to re-read Book I, as at first I wasn't sure these were the same character. Turns out, I had actually missed a lot of the subtext of the first book, and Roland was always more complex and humane than I had figured.

[Darth Credence]

The problem I with that suggestion is that the difference between a white person from the South hating blacks is just a bit different from a black person being distrustful of whites. I don't really see how the former is expected to change whereas the latter makes sense once she realizes that Roland isn't like every other white person she's known her entire life.

Come on now - Detta wasn't distrustful of white people. She hates white people with the burning force of one thousand suns. Minimizing that hate doesn't do anyone any good.


I picked up the Dark Tower after hearing all the hype about it (mainly from Dr. McNinja), and....I couldn't get into it. Everything in the opening chapters is this thoroughly depressing trek across a wasteland, and it didn't give me a reason to care about anybody. I tried a couple times, but just didn't "get" it. Does the style change later into the book, or something?

And I say this as someone who loved both The Shining and 11/22/63, so it's not just Stephen King's writing style as a whole that's throwing me off.

One thing to remember is that The Gunslinger was not written as a novel. It was a collection of five related stories that were originally published in the Magazine of Science Fiction and Fantasy. King has also revised it, because he felt it was inaccessible to new readers. If you want to read it, make sure you have a version after 2003 - it flows better and works better with later books.

[Donnadogsoth]

One thing to remember is that The Gunslinger was not written as a novel. It was a collection of five related stories that were originally published in the Magazine of Science Fiction and Fantasy. King has also revised it, because he felt it was inaccessible to new readers. If you want to read it, make sure you have a version after 2003 - it flows better and works better with later books.

I disagree, King vandalised his own book, reminiscent of how Spielberg vandalised E.T.. Stick with the original DT, it's lean and dry like the apotheosis of all deserts.

On Roland being black, this smacks of vandalism, too. Why not Idris Elba as Joan of Arc? Not John of Arc but Joan of Arc. I realise this is society, or at least Hollywood or elements in Hollywood trying to get over race, but it has the effect of disruption. And why couldn't Elba play Joan? We would want him to dress the part, wouldn't we? We would expect Elba to dress to pass as a 19-year-old French girl. Maybe he could make for a very absorbing Joan. So with Roland, Roland was written as white, the story has him functioning relationally as white, so why couldn't Elba dress to pass as white? The motion capture technology is here. Wouldn't that be just as interesting as having a black Roland? Did Darth Vader have to look like James Earl Jones when his helmet was doffed? If we're getting over race then that seems what a society that has “gotten over race” would look like, without disrupting or vandalising the source material or turning it into a Spartan stage play with the action chiefly in the mind.

[Raimun]

Firstly, i havent read the Dark Tower Series, but i am aware of the Deta character. Secondly, my choice for a hard bitten gunslinger is Jackie Earle Haley (he was Rorschach in Watchmen) as i thought he did an excellent Rorschach, and hes one of the most hard bitten characters i know of.

Hmm, Haley would be an excellent casting choice for Roland. In the books, and as admitted by King himself, Roland Deschain is for most practical purposes Clint Eastwood's character Man with No Name. Basically, whoever played Roland should be able to do at least a passable Eastwood imitation.

Either way, I'm highly skeptical of this whole movie project. I just can't see how they could make even a decent hollywood movie of this source material. The whole book series is just so... unhollywood. I can't describe this any other way.

[McStabbington]

On Roland being black, this smacks of vandalism, too. Why not Idris Elba as Joan of Arc? Not John of Arc but Joan of Arc. I realise this is society, or at least Hollywood or elements in Hollywood trying to get over race, but it has the effect of disruption. And why couldn't Elba play Joan? We would want him to dress the part, wouldn't we? We would expect Elba to dress to pass as a 19-year-old French girl. Maybe he could make for a very absorbing Joan. So with Roland, Roland was written as white, the story has him functioning relationally as white, so why couldn't Elba dress to pass as white? The motion capture technology is here. Wouldn't that be just as interesting as having a black Roland? Did Darth Vader have to look like James Earl Jones when his helmet was doffed? If we're getting over race then that seems what a society that has “gotten over race” would look like, without disrupting or vandalising the source material or turning it into a Spartan stage play with the action chiefly in the mind.

Um, because being female is integral to the story of Joan of Arc in a way that race really isn't to Roland Deschain? There are concerns around the edges (how will the character interaction work in the sequel, for instance), but nothing about Roland has to be white. On the other hand, just about everything in Joan of Arc's story is suffused with the fact that this was a woman in a man's role living in a society that deeply, profoundly frowned on women not sticking to "women's" roles. Right up to the part where they burned her to death as a witch and a heretic, a punishment that was close to unimaginable if she had been a man.

I'm at a bit of a loss for what to say. I have kind of wanted Hollywood to hire the best actor available regardless of race for a long time now. Idris Elba is one of the most critically-acclaimed and bankable actors in Hollywood, so it's not like this breaks the rule. Nothing about race is integral to the character; this isn't Othello or Tom Robinson. So, yeah, I'm not seeing any problem with this in itself.

[Mikeavelli]

Um, because being female is integral to the story of Joan of Arc in a way that race really isn't to Roland Deschain? There are concerns around the edges (how will the character interaction work in the sequel, for instance), but nothing about Roland has to be white. On the other hand, just about everything in Joan of Arc's story is suffused with the fact that this was a woman in a man's role living in a society that deeply, profoundly frowned on women not sticking to "women's" roles. Right up to the part where they burned her to death as a witch and a heretic, a punishment that was close to unimaginable if she had been a man.

I'm at a bit of a loss for what to say. I have kind of wanted Hollywood to hire the best actor available regardless of race for a long time now. Idris Elba is one of the most critically-acclaimed and bankable actors in Hollywood, so it's not like this breaks the rule. Nothing about race is integral to the character; this isn't Othello or Tom Robinson. So, yeah, I'm not seeing any problem with this in itself.

The racial interaction between Roland and Susannah is actually really integral their introduction and character development. The Detta Walker personality spends the majority of the second book calling Roland a 'Honky mahfah' and trying to escape from / kill him specifically because of his race.

[Donnadogsoth]

Um, because being female is integral to the story of Joan of Arc in a way that race really isn't to Roland Deschain? There are concerns around the edges (how will the character interaction work in the sequel, for instance), but nothing about Roland has to be white. On the other hand, just about everything in Joan of Arc's story is suffused with the fact that this was a woman in a man's role living in a society that deeply, profoundly frowned on women not sticking to "women's" roles. Right up to the part where they burned her to death as a witch and a heretic, a punishment that was close to unimaginable if she had been a man.

I'm at a bit of a loss for what to say. I have kind of wanted Hollywood to hire the best actor available regardless of race for a long time now. Idris Elba is one of the most critically-acclaimed and bankable actors in Hollywood, so it's not like this breaks the rule. Nothing about race is integral to the character; this isn't Othello or Tom Robinson. So, yeah, I'm not seeing any problem with this in itself.

Others have mentioned the important Detta relationship, but that's secondary to me. If we're going to chop and change, then I don't see why Elba couldn't play Joan. So Joan looks a little darker and huskier and beardier than we thought. Roland is a white character, that's understood from the books, so why not cast a woman, or a member of the Blue Man Group, or whomever? Are the other characters going to be upside-down too? The Man in Black will be the Man in White? Why not make everyone Asian? It's messing with the character, it's grating against what millions of fans have imagined. I don't like it, and I think lots of fans will pretend they do like it out of fear of appearing un-PC.

[GAZ]

Nothing about Roland is inherently white aside from having "faded blue bombardier's eyes." If they give Elba colored contacts, he has the grit and edge to play the character properly.

Odetta Holmes/Detta Walker must be a black woman, though. Her personality, motivations, and mental issues are all rooted in her backstory as the child of one of the first wealthy black men in America and as an active participant in the civil rights movement.

Just make Detta hate Eddie for being a "honky mahfah" and hate Roland for being a "fairy tale fantasy Uncle Tom" or something similar and the story still works.

As long as they're not trying to squeeze everything into just one movie, I'm excited.

[DoctorFaust]

Nothing about Roland is inherently white aside from having "faded blue bombardier's eyes." If they give Elba colored contacts, he has the grit and edge to play the character properly.

Though, interestingly enough, he is portrayed as white, or at the very least not black, in the comics. And considering that Stephen King was the creative director on them, that lends a certain credence to the argument that Roland Deschain is white.

[Telonius]

It's been a long time since I picked up the first book while waiting for some pictures to get developed, but from what I do remember: yes, book 2 is very different. Book 1 is kinda minimal, book 2 is a lot more fleshed-out and has a lot more in the way of characterization.

Book 1 was also written pretty early along in King's career, with the parts being completed between 1978 and 81. Book 2 was published in 1987. In the interim, he'd put out some of his big famous ones, like Christine and IT; as well as some more Richard Bachmann books, and straight-up Fantasy like Eyes of the Dragon. I don't want to say that he'd changed as an author, but he certainly had a lot more experience by the time Drawing of the Three came out.

[JoshL]

Though, interestingly enough, he is portrayed as white, or at the very least not black, in the comics. And considering that Stephen King was the creative director on them, that lends a certain credence to the argument that Roland Deschain is white.

Or, at least, WAS white in the original conception of the story. But I'll let Mr. King have the final word on that (from his Twitter feed):

To me, the color of the gunslinger doesn't matter. What I care about is how fast he can draw...and that he takes care of the ka-tet.

[GAZ]

Though, interestingly enough, he is portrayed as white, or at the very least not black, in the comics. And considering that Stephen King was the creative director on them, that lends a certain credence to the argument that Roland Deschain is white.

Roland Deschain has up until this point, been portrayed as white. Nothing in his history or his character demands that he always continue to be portrayed as white. That is why I said that he isn't "inherently" white.

Consider other heroes who have been adapted to different media. Batman and Spider-Man are both white, vigilante superheros. Batman has to be white because in America it is only white people who come from Old Money and grow up in the family's ancestral mansion. Spider-Man just happens to be white because nothing about growing up poor but loved is inherently color coded. Roland is the time lost king of a post apocalyptic fantasy land, he can be any color skin without changing his story. See the difference?

[DoctorFaust]

Or, at least, WAS white in the original conception of the story. But I'll let Mr. King have the final word on that (from his Twitter feed):

To me, the color of the gunslinger doesn't matter. What I care about is how fast he can draw...and that he takes care of the ka-tet.

Which is probably just about the best way to express how I feel about this whole casting thing. Race doesn't, or at least shouldn't, factor in to it unless it's going to change how the story goes or has to be told. But in this case, it does. And to be perfectly blunt, while Idris Elba is a good actor, I don't think he's the right choice to play Roland.


Roland Deschain has up until this point, been portrayed as white. Nothing in his history or his character demands that he always continue to be portrayed as white. That is why I said that he isn't "inherently" white.

Consider other heroes who have been adapted to different media. Batman and Spider-Man are both white, vigilante superheros. Batman has to be white because in America it is only white people who come from Old Money and grow up in the family's ancestral mansion. Spider-Man just happens to be white because nothing about growing up poor but loved is inherently color coded. Roland is the time lost king of a post apocalyptic fantasy land, he can be any color skin without changing his story. See the difference?

Well, one difference would be that the first two are secret identities that have been used by numerous people over the years, including at least one black guy that I'm aware of. But you are right in that the tropes in people's backstories can lend themselves more to one skin color than others. Which, funny enough, so does Roland's. Thinking back through the fantasy stuff I've read that's similar to Lord of the Rings, I'd be willing to put money that at least 90% of the long-lost kings of ancient empires are white, even if it's for as simple of a reason as them being based on Western European kingdoms, which were ruled almost invariably by white/non-black people. And if you just want to look at the stuff that The Dark Tower draws inspiration from, Spaghetti Westerns almost invariably starred non-black actors in their leading roles, like Henry Fonda or Clint Eastwood. Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came (which was, to my knowledge, one of the primary inspirations for The Dark Tower) likely stars the eponymous Roland from The Song of Roland, who definitely wasn't black considering all the insulting of Muslims they do in it. Hell, Stephen King, who Roland is explicitly stated to resemble, is white.

[Donnadogsoth]

Roland Deschain has up until this point, been portrayed as white. Nothing in his history or his character demands that he always continue to be portrayed as white. That is why I said that he isn't "inherently" white.

Consider other heroes who have been adapted to different media. Batman and Spider-Man are both white, vigilante superheros. Batman has to be white because in America it is only white people who come from Old Money and grow up in the family's ancestral mansion. Spider-Man just happens to be white because nothing about growing up poor but loved is inherently color coded. Roland is the time lost king of a post apocalyptic fantasy land, he can be any color skin without changing his story. See the difference?

Batman lives in a fantasy land too. There's no good reason why a black Old Money family couldn't be placed into a setting featuring aliens and supervillains.

[McStabbington]

And if you just want to look at the stuff that The Dark Tower draws inspiration from, Spaghetti Westerns almost invariably starred non-black actors in their leading roles, like Henry Fonda or Clint Eastwood. Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came (which was, to my knowledge, one of the primary inspirations for The Dark Tower) likely stars the eponymous Roland from The Song of Roland, who definitely wasn't black considering all the insulting of Muslims they do in it. Hell, Stephen King, who Roland is explicitly stated to resemble, is white.

That doesn't get you very far. The Spaghetti Westerns earned their name because they were filmed in Italy, by a director with no prior experience, directing what to that point was no-name talent on a shoestring budget. There's a reason why all the extras get recycled in Leone's Dollars trilogy: because outside of the main characters, what he had were essentially farmhands from the Italian countryside. When he got a budget, he started incorporating actors with experience in Westerns like Woody Strode, who was in Once Upon a Time in the West. It doesn't help that you're also talking about a time in which studios were quite explicitly racist and would simply not cast black actors for anything other than roles specifically defined as black.

Long story short, I get that this can feel a bit off for some people, but the only ultimate question is whether the actor has the combination of charm, gravitas and formidable strength to play the character. Having seen Elba in multiple movies and tv shows, I can say without question that he has the chops for the role. He isn't the first person that came to my mind's eye (as I said, if I had to pick the role, my first casting choice would have been Daniel Craig), but I can certainly see him winning the casting directors over without much difficulty, and I trust the selection. As far as his race is concerned, long ago I had difficulty seeing Spiderman being anything other than white. Then I read the story of Ben Reilly. Nowadays, if race isn't integral to the character, it isn't really a factor in my thinking. There's a difference between the role of Bob Ewell, who has to be white, versus Spiderman, who was simply traditionally white.

[DoctorFaust]

That doesn't get you very far. The Spaghetti Westerns earned their name because they were filmed in Italy, by a director with no prior experience, directing what to that point was no-name talent on a shoestring budget. There's a reason why all the extras get recycled in Leone's Dollars trilogy: because outside of the main characters, what he had were essentially farmhands from the Italian countryside. When he got a budget, he started incorporating actors with experience in Westerns like Woody Strode, who was in Once Upon a Time in the West. It doesn't help that you're also talking about a time in which studios were quite explicitly racist and would simply not cast black actors for anything other than roles specifically defined as black.

You do realize that Woody Strode didn't actually have any lines in Once Upon a Time in the West, right? And that may be why the studios didn't hire black actors, but the fact remains that Spaghetti Westerns starred almost exclusively non-black protagonists. And considering that The Dark Tower draws heavy, heavy inspiration from that genre, especially the Dollars Trilogy and the Man with No Name, I would still argue that it makes more sense for Roland to be played by a white actor than a black one, at least thematically. A good black actor would still be a better choice than a mediocre white one, though.


Long story short, I get that this can feel a bit off for some people, but the only ultimate question is whether the actor has the combination of charm, gravitas and formidable strength to play the character. Having seen Elba in multiple movies and tv shows, I can say without question that he has the chops for the role. He isn't the first person that came to my mind's eye (as I said, if I had to pick the role, my first casting choice would have been Daniel Craig), but I can certainly see him winning the casting directors over without much difficulty, and I trust the selection. As far as his race is concerned, long ago I had difficulty seeing Spiderman being anything other than white. Then I read the story of Ben Reilly. Nowadays, if race isn't integral to the character, it isn't really a factor in my thinking. There's a difference between the role of Bob Ewell, who has to be white, versus Spiderman, who was simply traditionally white.

And I disagree with that. Viggo Mortensen's Aragorn or Javier Bardem's Anton Chigurh seem closer to what Roland is like than anyone Elba's played, with Chigurh being more like Roland in the first book or two and Aragorn being more like Roland in the last few. Elba may well have the acting chops to do so, but I really can't comment on that since the only things I've seen him in really didn't require that much acting and were all decidedly supporting roles. What I really think it comes down to, besides all the stuff I've already said, is that I don't see Roland as the kind of badass characters that Elba has played before. I couldn't see Roland Deschain getting up on top of a Jaeger's foot to rage into a mic about the edge of the apocalypse. I don't see Roland Deschain swigging from a bottle of whiskey while firing wildly into a crowd of mooks. I can't see Roland standing and doing nothing for most of the movie like Heimdall does. I can't see him playing at being a chessmaster like Stringer, and I definitely don't see him as incredibly analytical as Luther.

[Talakeal]

To me Idris Elba doesn't look the part of Roland; race aside he seems a bit too "big" and "clean cut" to play the roll. I imagine someone who looks a bit scruffier and more gaunt; as mentioned earlier in the thread Viggo Mortenson or Jackie Haley (sp?) would fit the roll a lot better.

To me race doesn't matter for Roland. He could be any race, it doesn't change his story. He has always been depicted as white, and has a very specific image in both the comics and the Michael Whelen illustrations in the novels, but it isn't important to his character or his story, so I don't really care if they change it.

It does, however, really change Detta's story, so if they plan on making a sequel they should probably have a good idea how they are going to handle it now.

I do like Idris Elba. He has been a fine actor in everything I have seen him in (except Pacific Rim, but then again imo that movie had some of the worst acting this side of The Happening all around), and I think he can play the Roland just fine, just like I think he will be a fine James Bond (certainly better than Daniel Craig).

I also like the idea of casting Mathew Mchauneghy to play both the Man in Black in Dark Tower and Flagg in The Stand. I think he would be good for the role, and it is a neat idea to have them share an actor, although I personally did not like the retcon that Flagg was the Man in Black at all and much preferred the early books where they were two distinct characters.


That being said, my ideal casting choice for Rolan would be nobody. The original The Gunslinger is my all time favorite book and I don't have enough faith in Hollywood not to screw it up; I would prefer they just left well enough alone.

[Darth Credence]

I disagree, King vandalised his own book, reminiscent of how Spielberg vandalised E.T.. Stick with the original DT, it's lean and dry like the apotheosis of all deserts.


I haven't read the update, since I have the original, so I don't know what the changes are other than King recommending the change. I meant more for someone who had tried and failed to read it but still wants to get into the series.

[Talakeal]

Has anyone else seen this picture?

http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news.tops/NE6yddnBvkmA98_2_b.jpg

I am seriously hoping that is fan-art rather than official concept art, because that costume gives me more pause than any casting decision ever could. He looks less like a gunslinger and more like a weird Steampunk / Pirates of the Caribbean hybrid to me.

And giving Roland eyeglasses? Seriously? A black gunslinger I can buy, but a gunslinger with poor eyesight? Never.

[Lurkmoar]

Has anyone else seen this picture?

http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news.tops/NE6yddnBvkmA98_2_b.jpg

I am seriously hoping that is fan-art rather than official concept art, because that costume gives me more pause than any casting decision ever could. He looks less like a gunslinger and more like a weird Steampunk / Pirates of the Caribbean hybrid to me.

And giving Roland eyeglasses? Seriously? A black gunslinger I can buy, but a gunslinger with poor eyesight? Never.

Agreed. Midworld always seemed more post disaster then steampunk to me. Most of the techy stuff was rusted and hulked out. Style wasn't a huge issue except for the Pubes and Grays in Lud. Maybe the glasses are a style choice?

Also... how would the movie deal with the metafictional parts? Have the director take the place of King and then have everyone realize they're actually in a movie based on a novel series?