Monk Help

[SMac8988]

Was going to call this homebrew help, but isn't really what it is. I am dming a game starting soon and one of my players is super about beating **** with his hands. So monk is a great choice, we are running a few online homebrew stuff and he was wondering, as I an now asking the giant people, is there a monk homebrew subclass that gears it more to str than dex.

With fists for monks being able to do str or dex damage and the monks ac linked to dex and wisdom I don't see any reason or way to gear them towards str but just wondering if someone made something balanced and fun!

Thanks in advance.

[gfishfunk]

The monk's ability to use Dex instead of Str for unarmed attacks is permissive, not mandatory. "You CAN use Dexterity instead of Strength....."

Staying entirely within RAW, you are free to make a Str based Monk. I do not know of any specific variants that provide additional benefits, but I believe that most of the other features involve Wisdom. It just gets a little MAD.

[SMac8988]

Ya I was trying to keep him from going MAD.

[Mr.Moron]

Why not just have them run barbarian and give them the monk's unarmed damage progression in place of their usual weapon proficiencies? That would fit the dude who beats people up in the face all the time archtype pretty well, with minimal effort & re-work.

[BladeWing81]

Was going to call this homebrew help, but isn't really what it is. I am dming a game starting soon and one of my players is super about beating **** with his hands. So monk is a great choice, we are running a few online homebrew stuff and he was wondering, as I an now asking the giant people, is there a monk homebrew subclass that gears it more to str than dex.

With fists for monks being able to do str or dex damage and the monks ac linked to dex and wisdom I don't see any reason or way to gear them towards str but just wondering if someone made something balanced and fun!

Thanks in advance.

Dex is better for the Monk because Dex is also used for AC and other skills like Stealth and acrobatics and saving throws. Other than that there is no restriction for using Str instead of Dex for your Monk Martial arts gives you the option to use either when using your Monk weapons and unarmed attacks, the best subclass for this would probably be Open hand (the worst is Sun soul because the searing sun strikes use Dex). you could simply teak the unarmed defense to use Str instead of Dex and that's it.

[SMac8988]

Awesome thanks so much. I love the barbarian idea

[HammeredWharf]

The Barbarian would be a bit underpowered for the first few levels, since d4 is not a lot of damage. Monks are ok with it because of all the extra attacks they get.

[ruy343]

Monks work well when their strikes can be dex-based because not only does the monk get to use DEX for attack, but they also get to add it to AC, which helps monks out a lot by making them less multi-ability-dependent.

That said, he certainly can use strength for his attacks. In fact, if you're going that route, a potentially viable build would be to make a Monk/Barbarian multiclass, taking advantage of the Monk's extra attacks (Free unarmed attack(s) as part of the Martial Arts feature) with the Barbarian's bonus rage damage added to each attack. Plus, you can dump wisdom entirely and put everything into Constitution to take advantage of that class's unarmed defense feature (since unarmored defenses can't stack).

The thing is: Monk and Barbarian have a few redundant features (like unarmored defense and speed increase) that might make the multiclass less enticing. But let's be honest: an unarmored, unarmed man pounding the snot out of his foes with his BARE HANDS? That's pretty awesome.

[gfishfunk]

Yeah, I see no reason to make a homebrew for this, as it is perfectly viable in the class.

[SMac8988]

How would everyone feel about a Monk/Barb hybrid class, make it like a brawler? Drop the Ki based stuff, and make it more feats of STR and rage?

[gfishfunk]

It could work: you will need to figure out what Barbarian stuff to drop, though.

Your best bet might simply be to make the unarmored attack = 1d6 damage, and allow an off-handed weapon attack -- similar to duel wielding short swords. Then, if he wants to up the damage, make him take the Duel Wielder feat and allow that to up the damage to 1d8. This is the equivalent of getting a 1d8 longsword / battleaxe in each hand.

EDIT: still do the off-hand without damage, so the first fist does 1d8 + Str, the second attack can be activated with a bonus action and does 1d8 damage, unless he does a fighter or ranger dip for the two-weapon fighting style

Done, without making a hybrid class, and keeps everything balanced.

[Arelai]

I played a Goliath Fighter who was also a stone mason-he duel wielded 2 carved out stones that functioned like boxing gloves and he just punched his way through everything.

Took the duel wielding feat and just used d8's(similar to the versatile weapons damage)

[SMac8988]

I was looking at creating like a Martial Artist Class, and have it be somewhat under powered, but allow them to learn a bunch of differing styles which will balance it out. Gives a player something to quest for; learning new styles, and can give the DM some side missions.

But I am FAR from a homebrewer.

[Foxhound438]

you could always just make a homebrew weapon that's flavored like a gauntlet or something, and have him go barb. have it be a d6 bludgeoning light weapon, should work fine. would be a bit behind standard monk while not raging (since you wouldn't have the proper fighting style)

[bid]

Barbarian's unarmored defense is no better than monk's, all it does is swap Wis for Con. The only advantage is you can medium armor and keep Dex14.

A raging brawler would do 1d4+2+3 + 1d4+2 = 12 damage.
A pure monk would do 1d4+3 + 1d4+3 = 11 damage. (bonus attack has +3 since not twf)

Brawling barbarian or Str monk seem just as good without any homebrew. And stacking rage with unarmed damage is too strong.


Since you are the DM and you may want to homebrew something just for the fun, I suggest this as not too OP:
- take monk
- unarmored defense replace by barbarian's
- martial arts:
-- remove the armor/shield restriction
-- remove the "can use Dex" part
- ki uses Cha DC


If what he likes is the reckless bit, just give a free tavern brawler to his barbarian. The rage bonus grows faster than the monk weapon damage anyway.

[SMac8988]

That may work. He brought up the possibility of maybe learning different styles. Like start off as a street fighter, and turn into more of a martial artist.

Thinking maybe even link his damage improvement to that., maybe have styles in my world he can learn to increase his damage, some grappling, Idk just seems like potential a really cool idea, just don't know how to work it all out

[WMO?]

First thing I would say is that the Way of the Open Hand Monk doesn't need to be changed at all to be a guy who beats up everything with his bare hands. If your player can deal with the fact that he's using Dexterity to attack instead of Strength, then he should just play the RAW Monk. Describe him using his titanic strength to smash things up, whatever, it doesn't really make a difference and saves you work.

HOWEVER, if you must have a Strength monk without going MAD:

I just took another look at the Monk class features, and there are only two core class features that key off of Wisdom: Unarmored Defense and Ki Saving Throw DC. If you take Way of the Open Hand, which your guy probably would want to, the Tranquility feature also keys off Wisdom.

The simplest way to solve this is refluff and retool those three features to be keyed to Strength instead.

Refluff:
This guy trained in a highly-specialized unarmed fighting style unique to his culture, or with a strictly materialist Charles Atlas-like sect of monks who believe that the body is all there is, and that perfecting it is the path to transcendence, not this sissy meditating and koans and sh**.

If you pick the non-monkish fluff, call Ki something like "Martial Ability", and by the transitive property: Ki Points = "MA Points" and Ki Saving Throw DC = "MA ST DC"

Retool:
Unarmored Defense is now 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Strength modifier. It represents the rigorous training to toughen his body, breaking iron bars against his back and punching trees until his knuckles are one big callous and whatnot.

Ki Saving Throw DC is now 8 + your proficiency bonus + Strength modifier. It represents the difficulty of resisting the might of someone who can access their body's full abilities, far beyond what even the most physically able people can comprehend.

Tranquility is now called something like "Dawn Exercises" and the saving throw for the sanctuary-like effect is now 8 + your proficiency bonus + Strength modifier. It represents the fact that his training has him wake up at the crack of dawn and do strenuous exercises, making himself look even more jacked than usual, and thus more intimidating to attack right off the bat. Once he have made his first attack of the day, however, that overwhelming presence is lost to the energy of the powerful strikes he's dealing out.



^This fix doesn't work if he goes Way of Shadow or Way of Four Elements, because those powers are somewhat too mystical to be explained by Charles Atlas bodily perfection or cultural martial toughness training

The last thing to consider would be damage output if he completely eschews weapons. If you start at a level below 5, he will probably be behind in damage dealt with d4s as his unarmed strike damage. It would be up to you. You could just make him make the decision and justify it: be less effective but more AWESOME, or use a monk weapon (because something like 'he is not yet worthy to use The Ancient Technique'). Or you could rule that the first unarmed strike he makes does d6 or d8 damage, because that's what he'd be doing with a shortsword or quarterstaff.