Dive bombing flyer damage:

[RickAllison]

How would you houserule the damage bonus from dive bombing a creature with weapons? For example, an Aarakocra is 200 ft above a target (well within the height he could fall in six seconds) and dives to drive a sword into an enemy. How much damage would be inflicted by the attack?

[Jeebs]

I've never had to rule on this, but I've thought about using the falling damage rules.

Figure out how far the attacker is falling, and then they can add half the damage they would have taken as a bonus to their attack. However, I'd have them roll the other half as normal and suffer that themselves. There's a max of 20d6 you can take in a normal fall, so I'd limit it to 10d6 each.

Hopefully this would make it rewarding to do Assassin's Creed style air assassinations or build a Final Fantasy style Dragoon character. At the same time, I think there should be some risk inherent in getting that bonus.

[hymer]

How would you houserule the damage bonus from dive bombing a creature with weapons? For example, an Aarakocra is 200 ft above a target (well within the height he could fall in six seconds) and dives to drive a sword into an enemy. How much damage would be inflicted by the attack?

I'd rule no bonus damage. None. Zero. I'd be happy to give the aarakocra all the fall damage s/he'd like, up to 20d6.
There would be an exception, however: If I was sure this would never be a thing in the campaign again, I'd ask the player how s/he'd like to rule it, and go with whatever they said. They want total anti-climax? Fine, have it. See if I care.

[Mellack]

I would rule similar to Jeebs. You can add extra damage by falling, but nobody would generally choose to do so because it causes your body to hit just as hard. If you are falling that fast you cannot stop and may also end up prone. Generally it would be a bad idea.

[RickAllison]

I feel like I should clarify this a little bit more...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvH_Qa5svSw

That video shows a peregrine falcon diving from a higher elevation and pulling out just before impacting his talons against the duck. This is the kind of raptor behavior I wanted to emulate, but with shortswords or daggers, so the flyer never really impact anything (which probably requires an Acrobatics check to make sure he doesn't crash and burn). It would be a very inefficient combat maneuver and only useful in open sky, but it makes sense for the raptor-like Aarakocra.

[hymer]

This is the kind of raptor behavior I wanted to emulate, but with shortswords or daggers

[Annoyed DM]Then take the Charger feat and stop trying to get something for nothing.[/Annoyed DM]

Edit:
[Annoyed DM]@ Jeebs & Mellack: See what happens when you engange with that sort of behaviour from your players? Greedy arguments about so-called 'real life' imposed on abstract rules that are creaking enough under the weight of abuse as it is. Shut it down right off the bat. You'll be arguing about the application chemistry to make gunpowder next.[/Annoyed DM]

[RickAllison]

[Annoyed DM]Then take the Charger feat and stop trying to get something for nothing.[/Annoyed DM]

Edit:
[Annoyed DM]@ Jeebs & Mellack: See what happens when you engange with that sort of behaviour from your players? Greedy arguments about so-called 'real life' imposed on abstract rules that are creaking enough under the weight of abuse as it is. Shut it down right off the bat. You'll be arguing about the application chemistry to make gunpowder next.[/Annoyed DM]

And with that attitude, you explicitly endorse repetition of the same strategy combat after combat, after combat. The entire point of strategy is to try and "get something for nothing," else there would be no point. It is about thinking creatively to improve your odds, while also adding variety and roleplay that doesn't exist when every combat boils down to the same formula.

Despite being quite rude, your idea of using Charger does actually make sense. I think I'll discuss with my DM on how to modify it, as it gives a reason why the character might know how to pull it off, but someone who just happened to cast the Fly spell could not. Trying to hit a person from a dive at 130 mph would require a significant amount of skill to hit at all, much less trying to do without actually crashing.

[hymer]

@ RickAllison: I hope you'll take my rudenness in the spirit intended, which was supposed to be indicated by the brackets.
That aside, I certainly don't agree with your definition of what strategy is, nor that [annoyed DM]your 'suggestion' here is in any way creative.[/Annoyed DM]

[Slipperychicken]

How would you houserule the damage bonus from dive bombing a creature with weapons? For example, an Aarakocra is 200 ft above a target (well within the height he could fall in six seconds) and dives to drive a sword into an enemy. How much damage would be inflicted by the attack?

I figure it wouldn't be much different in principle from a mounted charge. I don't see why this should get bonus damage or advantage when a mounted attack would not.


If the DM wants to encourage this kind of thinking, then advantage on the attack roll should be quite sufficient. It takes a good amount of time and a lot of space to set up for this dive-lancing, so it's hardly game-breaking.

[JackPhoenix]

I feel like I should clarify this a little bit more...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvH_Qa5svSw

That video shows a peregrine falcon diving from a higher elevation and pulling out just before impacting his talons against the duck. This is the kind of raptor behavior I wanted to emulate, but with shortswords or daggers, so the flyer never really impact anything (which probably requires an Acrobatics check to make sure he doesn't crash and burn). It would be a very inefficient combat maneuver and only useful in open sky, but it makes sense for the raptor-like Aarakocra.

Falcon is built for that sort of thing, there's reason why most other birds...even raptors...aren't capable of that, Aarakocra is still a humanoid, far less aerodynamic and maneuverable (I'm not even getting into the viability of winged humanoids and how would they be able to fly in the first place, that's just...ugh). Their top fly speed is just 120'/6s (and that's using an Action for Dash). They wouldn't be able to recover from a free fall that fast, and if they slowed down enough so they won't go splat on the ground, they will be using their normal fly speed.

You want to go from flee fall to level flight in a space of 5', precisely hit the target (possibly multiple times) at that speed and not crash...all at the same time.

[Mellack]

If you truly want to represent the peregrine falcon's dive attack, you should increase movement but decrease damage. When they do a dive attack they specifically target a wing rather than the center body. If they hit the center mass of another bird at speed the falcon would be damaged by the impact. If you translate that to D&D terms, it would be lowered damage since you are hitting non-vital targets.

(P.S. reality doesn't translate well into the game.)

[SharkForce]

i'd allow you to use a lance as if you were on a horse. that's about it.

[ji6]

i'd allow you to use a lance as if you were on a horse. that's about it.

Weirdly enough, that sounds awesome to me.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/03/1a/04/031a040ec5a724e6f04c5905c75b9cc9.jpg

[RickAllison]

What my GM decided is using fall damage as the attack bonus, applied to both parties. However, he allowed a Dex saving throw to reduce it to half damage and with a DC of 8 + Height/10. So, here it is for posterity!

[bid]

That video shows a peregrine falcon diving from a higher elevation and pulling out just before impacting his talons against the duck.
This is all about coming so fast the target doesn't have time to react. In 5e term, it's called "surprise".

If you want to do this, take rogue 3 (assassin) and use the surprise auto-crit rule.

And yes, if you dive and ram the target you'd get half the extra damage. Halving yours from "bracing" is the same as doubling his from critting.

[Notafish]

The Monster Manual Aarakocra has a "Dive Attack" that gives a bonus 1d6 damage for dive attacks longer than 30ft, which seems reasonable to me.