Advice needed on a Dagger Thrower

[ImSAMazing]

Hey Playground,

I am going to play a Dagger Thrower in an upcoming campaign, and we're starting at lvl 6. My build is the following: 5 Fighter(Custom battlemaster manouvres from the college of blades from UA)/Rogue 1. My ability scores are as following:
5 str
20 dex
14 con
16 intelligence
10 wisdom
11 charisma
I am a stout halfling, and I have a question: I have a spare ASI. Should I improve my Con or take a feat? What feats are good for a dagger thrower?

Thanks for the help in advance!

[AgentPaper]

If your DM will allow it to work with thrown daggers (or creates a version that does) Sharpshooter would be a feat worth getting for sure. +10 damage is huge on top of the relatively small damage die of a dagger, and ignoring cover and melee penalties is both very good and very flavorful.

[JackPhoenix]

Dual Wielder will be a must when you get Extra Attack, otherwise you can only draw (and thus throw) one weapon per turn. But even then, after level 11, you're still limiting yourself to 2 attacks a turn...so you can't use either of the fighter's main class features (Action Surge and 2nd and 3rd Extra Attack).

I don't like saying that, but TWF isn't the worst combat style in 5e...throwing stuff is, there's just no support for it.

[ImSAMazing]

Dual Wielder will be a must when you get Extra Attack, otherwise you can only draw (and thus throw) one weapon per turn. But even then, after level 11, you're still limiting yourself to 2 attacks a turn...so you can't use either of the fighter's main class features (Action Surge and 2nd and 3rd Extra Attack).

I don't like saying that, but TWF isn't the worst combat style in 5e...throwing stuff is, there's just no support for it.

Forgot to mention: I have a magical knife that automatically returns to my hand right after I throw it.

[JakOfAllTirades]

One of the benefits of the Crossbow Expert feat is to remove disadvantage on ranged attack rolls when you're within 5' of a hostile creature. This works with all ranged attacks, not just crossbows, so it could be extremely useful if you'd like to throw daggers even when you're in melee.

[WMO?]

If you are planning to get Sneak Attack from hiding rather than flanking, and the DM is a huge stickler about the rules for Hiding and attacking from concealment, Skulker is worthwhile so if you miss the first throw the second can still the d6 extra damage.

Martial Adept is actually a great feat for Battlemaster Fighters if you don't have a stat to bump, because the SD you get scales with the rest, the resource is an improvement on your endurance between short-rests, and you get a broader range of maneuvers for corner cases.

Defensive Duelist gives you another thing to do with your reaction.

Lucky and Alert are always great.

[djreynolds]

Grab 3 levels of swashbuckler, than you can sneak attack all you want.

[ImSAMazing]

Grab 3 levels of swashbuckler, than you can sneak attack all you want.

Is once a turn extra 2d6 worth trading of an extra use of action surge.

Also, Alert or Martial Adept? Both are really useful. I have 2 spare (or 3) feats in my build. Next level I can take the other. OR I could take an homebrewed feat that only gives the -5/+10,option for thrown weapons I dont think that feat is worth it, isn't it?

[PoeticDwarf]

Is once a turn extra 2d6 worth trading of an extra use of action surge.

Also, Alert or Martial Adept? Both are really useful. I have 2 spare (or 3) feats in my build. Next level I can take the other. OR I could take an homebrewed feat that only gives the -5/+10,option for thrown weapons I dont think that feat is worth it, isn't it?

Martial adept doesn't add that much, if you go for a feat, I'd say alert. You know how much that can help.

You don't need extra con as a semiranged fighter I'd say, maybe later, so alert sounds as the best option.

For some more options in a fighter build you could take magic initate, but although there are some very good options I think you are better of taking alert if you go for damage and daggerfocus.

[djreynolds]

Is once a turn extra 2d6 worth trading of an extra use of action surge.

Also, Alert or Martial Adept? Both are really useful. I have 2 spare (or 3) feats in my build. Next level I can take the other. OR I could take an homebrewed feat that only gives the -5/+10,option for thrown weapons I dont think that feat is worth it, isn't it?

3 levels of swashbuckler, cunning action, also a "free disengage", you can add charisma to initiative, so take that 16 in intelligence and put in charisma, now your initiative would 8 plus the alert feat for +13!!!! if you really need it.

Otherwise why take rouge, for 1 level of expertise in maybe stealth? over a fourth attack.

I love the idea of a dagger thrower. So grab sharpshooter, now you will need some damage mitigation, defensive duelist or uncanny dodge (from 5 levels of rogue) or bad parry from BM maneuvers. This where I go 5 rogue. Why? You AC is studded leather armor, 17 AC, maybe 18 if you take the duel wielder feat (which you may need to throw multiple daggers on a turn) point is if you get into melee you will be hurt uncanny dodge is half damage.

You will be using sharpshooter and precision to ensure hits. 15BM/5SB 3 attacks, d12? on maneuvers. uncanny dodge, cunning action for hide, dodge, and disengage. And swashbuckler gives you a free mobile feat versus your opponent. You will have 6 feats, could have 7 but level 15 BM is worth it over a feat and 2 more skills expertise at level 20.

Feats
Archery style +2, better than close-quarters +1
1 Sharpshooter
2 duel wielder for +1 AC, and two weapon draw, you need the AC
3 crossbow expert because of disadvantage in melee
4 alert, why not +13 initiative
5 resilient wisdom, cause you need it
6 ASI con
expertise stealth and acrobatics (unsure if expertise in perception in needed with alert) and you have no strength so acrobatics may help grapples

maybe skulker, but you can find something for darkvision and you have precision

Everything should be focused on landing sharpshooter and not dying. 12BM/8SB gives you 6 feats, 4 skills expertise, and evasion, wizards hate daggers thrown at them I'm told and will throw fireballs at you

[coredump]

It really is hard to pull off without DM help....house rules are needed.

With TWF you could throw 2 daggers a turn, but would need Dual Weilder to be able to draw two daggers a turn. Then if you got Extra Attack, you would be stuck even more. You could use dueling to get a +2 damage.... but can't use Archery or Sharpshooter.

If you switch to darts, you can use Archery and Sharpshooter, but no +2 from dueling; and you have the same problem with drawing weapons.

A level 5+ EK w/ DW could throw 5 daggers every 2 turns. (Start with dagger in hand, throw, draw 2 more and throw; next turn draw 2 and throw, use BA to summon bonded dagger back. Repeat.) And has the benefit of being able to repeatedly use a magical dagger. You could use a handaxe for more damage.... but may be more difficult carrying lots of them.

[djreynolds]

You're right, daggers are ranged melee attacks. My bad, got all excited

Just throw darts, even cooler. Otherwise he would need way more rogue to make the damage worth it.

[ImSAMazing]

3 levels of swashbuckler, cunning action, also a "free disengage", you can add charisma to initiative, so take that 16 in intelligence and put in charisma, now your initiative would 8 plus the alert feat for +13!!!! if you really need it.

Otherwise why take rouge, for 1 level of expertise in maybe stealth? over a fourth attack.

I love the idea of a dagger thrower. So grab sharpshooter, now you will need some damage mitigation, defensive duelist or uncanny dodge (from 5 levels of rogue) or bad parry from BM maneuvers. This where I go 5 rogue. Why? You AC is studded leather armor, 17 AC, maybe 18 if you take the duel wielder feat (which you may need to throw multiple daggers on a turn) point is if you get into melee you will be hurt uncanny dodge is half damage.

You will be using sharpshooter and precision to ensure hits. 15BM/5SB 3 attacks, d12? on maneuvers. uncanny dodge, cunning action for hide, dodge, and disengage. And swashbuckler gives you a free mobile feat versus your opponent. You will have 6 feats, could have 7 but level 15 BM is worth it over a feat and 2 more skills expertise at level 20.

Feats
Archery style +2, better than close-quarters +1
1 Sharpshooter
2 duel wielder for +1 AC, and two weapon draw, you need the AC
3 crossbow expert because of disadvantage in melee
4 alert, why not +13 initiative
5 resilient wisdom, cause you need it
6 ASI con
expertise stealth and acrobatics (unsure if expertise in perception in needed with alert) and you have no strength so acrobatics may help grapples

maybe skulker, but you can find something for darkvision and you have precision

Everything should be focused on landing sharpshooter and not dying. 12BM/8SB gives you 6 feats, 4 skills expertise, and evasion, wizards hate daggers thrown at them I'm told and will throw fireballs at you
First, I am using a Homebrewed version of BattleMaster. It has acces to the manouvres of the College of Blades(From UA Old Kits), which uses Intelligence as it's Dc, that's why my intelligence is 16.

It really is hard to pull off without DM help....house rules are needed.

With TWF you could throw 2 daggers a turn, but would need Dual Weilder to be able to draw two daggers a turn. Then if you got Extra Attack, you would be stuck even more. You could use dueling to get a +2 damage.... but can't use Archery or Sharpshooter.

If you switch to darts, you can use Archery and Sharpshooter, but no +2 from dueling; and you have the same problem with drawing weapons.

A level 5+ EK w/ DW could throw 5 daggers every 2 turns. (Start with dagger in hand, throw, draw 2 more and throw; next turn draw 2 and throw, use BA to summon bonded dagger back. Repeat.) And has the benefit of being able to repeatedly use a magical dagger. You could use a handaxe for more damage.... but may be more difficult carrying lots of them.
As I said already, I have a magical dagger that returns to my hand right after I throw it(So I can use it for Extra Attack, Throw , comes back, throw). Archery fighting style won't help because a thrown weapon isn't a ranged attack. That's why Sharpshooter' -5/+10 also doesn't work.

[PoeticDwarf]

I gave him the dagger that returns as his magic item (everyone has one) because otherwise the idea wom't work well. Now he can make a daggerthrower

The variant on the -5/+10 on thrown weapons gives only that. It is little weaker now but otherwise you can also say a druid with cha as casting isn't OP

[djreynolds]

I gave him the dagger that returns as his magic item (everyone has one) because otherwise the idea wom't work well. Now he can make a daggerthrower

The variant on the -5/+10 on thrown weapons gives only that. It is little weaker now but otherwise you can also say a druid with cha as casting isn't OP

I just do not see where the damage is going to come from, no sharpshooter or sneak attack. But the College of Swords itself is an awesome class, just play that. Loads of utility right there, spells, inspiration, healing, magic secrets (he still gets them).

Be a bard, college of swords.

[ImSAMazing]

I just do not see where the damage is going to come from, no sharpshooter or sneak attack. But the College of Swords itself is an awesome class, just play that. Loads of utility right there, spells, inspiration, healing, magic secrets (he still gets them).

Be a bard, college of swords.
From that feat xd. 3d4+45 damage at this lvl seems low but is around the dmg of a GWM+PM.

[djreynolds]

From that feat xd. 3d4+45 damage at this lvl seems low but is around the dmg of a GWM+PM.

Is this damage from superiority dice? The homebrew blade flourish? Trick shooter's flourish seems more akin to precision? And defensive flourish is more akin to defensive duelist, much better actually? I guess you could use menacing a lot, and such.

The reason I ask is it seems cool and the dart thing seems cool for me. Especially poisoned dipped ones.

[ImSAMazing]

Is this damage from superiority dice? The homebrew blade flourish? Trick shooter's flourish seems more akin to precision? And defensive flourish is more akin to defensive duelist, much better actually? I guess you could use menacing a lot, and such.

The reason I ask is it seems cool and the dart thing seems cool for me. Especially poisoned dipped ones.

From the -5/+10 homebrewed feat. 3 attacks, 20 dex, makes a total of 3d4(dmg die)+15(dex bonus)+30 (feat)

And I like the idea of poison-dipped daggers, but poison costs 100gp (basic version), for each attack. That's expensive.

[PoeticDwarf]

And 1d6 from rogue.

Yeah poison is pretty expensive.

Because magic items are fairly common in the campaign they are probably a better option

[djreynolds]

It is a cool concept, what's level of rogue for?

I think two levels trumps the feat you would lose at 19 for cunning action. The ability to hide as a bonus action could prove valuable getting away from trouble, as is dashing when needed. And another use for your bonus action

But I like it, and I would let you use sharpshooter anyhow with really anything thing ranged, no reason to call it a homebrew, just a DM call.

[Sir cryosin]

Just go bard collage of sword so you can grab the spell animate object and cast it on some daggers you I would say daggers or tiny objects so you can animate 8 of them and if you cast it as a higher slots you could get 16 flying daggers add all that up you doing so sweet damage and feel like a knife thrower to ohhh I been trying to come up with a knife thrower build custom an you or your DM post up the build I would love to see it

P.s sorry for grammer

[Addaran]

I'd go with dart as throwing daggers. Cause that's basically what a dart is. That solves all the problems about archery style and feats.

Instead of the returning dagger, you have a returning throwing dagger (dart). Since it's magically, it doesn't break on it. (do darts break on hit like arrows by RAW?)

[Sir cryosin]

Talk to you DM about grabbing some things from the Rangers Slayer archetype like like Valley or whirlwind attack what you can do with the world when is you can spin around in a world Wind and throw daggers at anybody's within within range of you

[Naanomi]

I had similar struggles finding a build that made two whips work effectively (to fit a mini); good luck!