Healing without being a healer

[90sMusic]

So i'm about to play a gestalt campaign with only 1 other person playing besides me, so between the two of us we are trying to come up with characters that can be pretty useful all around since we won't have a big party to fill all the roles. We usually do mostly RP and negotiating with people and bluff/diplomacy to avoid fighting but we're both concerned about our longevity with no ability to heal ourselves.

I'm basically just looking for some way to heal myself, or possibly remove negative conditions or poison/disease as well if possible.

I know usually only paladins get Lay on Hands, but I know there is an oracle curse that gives Lay on Hands to them as well, and there are lots of archetypes that grant features from other classes like ones that give sneak attack to a class that usually doesn't have it, etc.

I'm basically just looking for a class that isn't a healer but through feats or talents or archetypes or something has the ability to heal themselves decently.

The only thing i've seen close to what I want is the Godless Healer trait, but it heals for so little and is so limited by uses per day it won't really work. I know everyone swears up and down by wands, but I really don't want to have to rely on that.

So if anyone has any ideas to get some heals or even fast healing or regeneration or just anything really to keep a character alive through many combats per day without actually being a healer, it would be fantastic.

For my character, i'm thinking of going Slayer or Rogue for one of my classes and relying mainly on sneak attack for damage. I'd like another class that can compliment that in some way without being FORCED to take a pure healing class.

[Pex]

Oracle of Life. Gets Channel Energy like a cleric. A feat allows it to be used as a move action. Gets Energy Body, turning into an elemental subtype with its protections and the ability to heal himself as a move action or others when they move through his square. Gets Combat Healer, the ability to cast Cure Wounds as a swift action. Gets Safe Curing, the ability to casting healing spells without provoking an AoO. Note it's any spell that heals hit points, not just Cure Wounds, so the Heal spell and Breath of Life counts.

In a sense it is a "healer", but you can still do what you want. You can pick any cleric spells you desire for whatever strategy. Your feats are still yours to choose.

[Hruken]

Alchemist may be right up your alley. Extracts (and infusions, with the discovery) should be enough to heal without feeling too much like a healer class. More like drinking potions than casting spells.

The vivisectionist archetype even trades away bombs for sneak attack, which could open your other side up for a non sneak attack class if you wanted.

[Alex12]

If you're allowed Dreamscarred Press stuff, the Silver Crane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/silver-crane-maneuvers) discipline has access to maneuvers that, when you hit enemies, can heal yourself or nearby allies. Check out the Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker) as a member of the Empyreal Guardians (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/martial-traditions/empyreal-guardians). Also note that sacred damage is increased by 50% (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/systems-and-use) against evil targets or those with the [evil] subtype.

[avr]

Sneak attack isn't good as your main source of damage in a party of two. You'll seldom flank enemies, and there aren't enough people to reliably debuff your enemies that much.

A warpriest can do some damage and can swift action heal themself via fervor, including of conditions. Gestalt with some sort of ranger and you get full BAB, all good saves, 6+int skills and (depending on which ranger archetype) a situational bonus of some sort.

[tsj]

My suggestions:

Player1=gestalt gold dragon (selecting cleric spells) 1-20/rogue 1-20

Player2=gestalt silver dragon (selecting sorcerer spells) 1-20/psion 1-20

The dragon pc classes can be found on this forum... monsters as classes

---

You end up with 2 tanks, an arcane caster,
breath weapons for blasting, a skill monkey,
flying, psionic/mental powers and cleric magic

Basically..

A cleric
A sorcerer
2 Fighters with breath weapons and wings
A rogue
A psion

[Arbane]

Witches have all the Cure X Wound spells on their list, and have the Healing Hex.

[Florian]

Problem with sticking a "healer"-type of class to a martial class is mostly being MAD afterwards, which is pretty undesirable for gestalting. Also, if you want to rely on SA a lot, a companion should be a thing here.

Combination that I can think of:
- Slayer/Hunter (melee configuration): Best pet in town, WIS can cap at 16 w/o being too much a burden.
- Slayer/Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer): Studied Target and SA stack, again, WIS can cap at 16. (If in for a long game, consider exiting Slayer into Shadowdancer)
- Bloodrager (ID Rager)/Spiritualist (Fractured Mind): Fearsome combination. Ramps up melee attack numbers, works entirely of CHA, has two types of spell casting and gish abilities as well as a pet.
- Bloodrager/Medium: Very versatile, can switch healer-mode on and off.
- (Un)Rogue/Occultist: the Conjuration implement is the thing here (Flesh Mend, Purge Corruption). (Un)Rogue is SAD enough that putting more points in INT ain´t bad.

[90sMusic]

If you're allowed Dreamscarred Press stuff, the Silver Crane discipline has access to maneuvers that, when you hit enemies, can heal yourself or nearby allies. Check out the Stalker as a member of the Empyreal Guardians. Also note that sacred damage is increased by 50% against evil targets or those with the [evil] subtype.

My DM is very lax, i'm sure he'd allow anything we thought would be fun. I checked out those things and they look interesting, this is exactly the "type" of thing i'm looking for, some class or archetype or something not used too often that would let me heal. Unfortunately the healing is rather limited, i'm hoping for something with a pinch more oomph to it if it exists.


Sneak attack isn't good as your main source of damage in a party of two. You'll seldom flank enemies, and there aren't enough people to reliably debuff your enemies that much.

A warpriest can do some damage and can swift action heal themself via fervor, including of conditions. Gestalt with some sort of ranger and you get full BAB, all good saves, 6+int skills and (depending on which ranger archetype) a situational bonus of some sort.

The thing is, my character has really, really bad stats for anything combat related. I have strength and dex 10. I thought using sneak attack would be my best option to do some damage. I'm going to use my slayer talents to get two weapon fighting feats, and I figure by the time i'm level 20 i'll have 8 attacks doing an extra 6d6 damage each. By my napkin man that should do about 168 damage per full round attack just in sneak attack damage, I think that'll be enough really.

The idea is we're going to try to talk our way out of fights more often than not and also do a fair amount of sneaky things. I just wanted sneak attack because I figure it's more or less "free damage" that I don't have to invest anything into and should be enough to get by. I was planning on using dazzling display + shatter defenses to sneak attack nearly anything. I usually don't play melee characters so i'm hoping it all works out.

I don't think he would let us be dragons. :P We are, however, kitsune, and have realistic likeness and fox form so we can sneak around and be disguised all the time so no one ever really knows who we are and we are very good at infiltrating. As I said, we are going to avoid combat whenever possible, but I just worry without some way of healing ourselves we're going to be in for a rough time. I mean i'd love to get a ring of regeneration or something but it's so bloody expensive. :(

I'm just not sure what to do.

[meemaas]

Boots of the earth for the both of you. Turn them on when you finish combat and be full healed before another fight.

[Alex12]

If your GM is okay with psionics, there's a neat class called Cryptic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/cryptic) that you might appreciate. I've seen some terrifying things done with one- the Metamorphosis line is as powerful as you'd expect shapechanging magic to be, they get infinite at-will ranged touch attack that scale in power with level up to 10d6 at level 19 (though without certain feats/archetypes, you select a creature type and it only deals that much damage to that creature type and half damage to everything else), and they get psionic powers, including some powers that can be used to heal.

[Captain Morgan]

Your strategy is full of holes, I'm afraid. Sneak attack damage doesn't apply to elementals, oozes, and incorporeal enemies. And then you need to set up-- Dazzling Display is a full round action that you need to be in range to use. At best that's your first round. Your second round you're probably moving and attacking once, which makes two weapon fighting irrelevant. You aren't launching a full attack until round 3. Worse yet, you actually have to hit, which is hard to do with a 10 in your primary stat.

You need to tell us more about your character creation process. Why are you stuck with 10 in Dex and Str? were stats rolled in order or something? What do you have in your remaining stats? If your mental stats are higher, you should probably just use 9th level casting to wreck in combat and utility out of combat. But there are ways to accomplish solid martial prowess that don't rely on STR or DEX. Sneak attack isn't one of them.

If you are maxing Intelligence: Alchemist/Wizard. Bomb damage/ammo is based on INT, as are your spells. Bombs target touch AC which means you don't need that much accuracy. Perfect saves, d8, 3/4 BAB. You can combine mutagen with transmutation spells if you want to smash face. Big drawback: little face synergy.

Wizard/Investigator: Similar to the above, but with more of a martial/skill bent. You'll still have full casting, but you'll also be king of skills, and studied combat mixes very well with transmutation spells. (Focus on critters with pounce and/or 3-6 or more natural attacks.) You can use the Enhancement school to help make up for your lower psychical stats. Empiricist is recommended for the Investigator half.

Magus/Wizard: Spell Combat plus full wizard progression is just great. (Note: This is the only option on here without healing.)


If you are maxing Wisdom: Cleric or Warpriest can both qualify for the Guided Hand feat, which let's you get WIS to hit. Combine that with any martial and you'll be OK in combat. And a Cleric's 9th level casting can pull some pretty crazy stuff as you level up, whether it's buffing, control, or blowing stuff up.

Zen Archer/Infiltrator slash Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor with Heresy/Conversion inquisition: A personal favorite. You don't get 9th level casting, but you do get 6th level. You also get WIS to hit, AC, and initiative, flurry of bows, perfect saves, 6 base skill points, and a boatload of free archery feats. Bane will get insanely powerful for damage with that flurry, tacking on studied target and potential sneak attack only helps more. Slayer talents can also help get some of the Rogue like qualities. Best of all, you get WIS TWICE to your face skills. It's a really amazing chassis that is very SAD. I prefer a dwarf for this.


If you are maxing Charisma: You probably want to combine Summoner with something here.

Sorcerer/Paladin: Your sorc half is going to do the heavy lifting as the active half here, but the Paladin will let you get d10 HD, great saves, and self-heals for solid action economy. Smite Evil + a solid polymorph spell will rip stuff up immensely. If you don't care about melee, you can take the Enlightened Paladin archetype to get CHA to AC.

Summoner/Anything: I just realized how great this guy would be for you if you're CHA based. You probably want the Synthesist so your crappy physical stats don't matter, and you can get natural attacks and pounce. You get sweet arcane spells, plus the ability to bring more bodies out which can serve as meatshields or flanking buddies when things hit the fan, helping to balance your lack of players. Combine with:

Bard: Skill monkey, some extra spells, etc. Use a normal Bard if you want to buff your summons, or the Archeologist with Fate's Favored to buff yourself and have Rogue like tendencies.

Paladin: Basically the best combat chasis, because of those saves saves and smites. Doesn't improve skills much though.

Oracle: You can do a lot of things with an Oracle alone, and it does get you a couple more skill points. Revelations to consider: Armor manifestions, CHA to AC, CHA to knowledge skills, flight, anything that helps in melee, etc.

[Jack_Simth]

So i'm about to play a gestalt campaign with only 1 other person playing besides me, so between the two of us we are trying to come up with characters that can be pretty useful all around since we won't have a big party to fill all the roles. We usually do mostly RP and negotiating with people and bluff/diplomacy to avoid fighting but we're both concerned about our longevity with no ability to heal ourselves.Just two?

There have been a few threads recently along this vein. I think I'll just quote myself:

Other options:
Druid (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid)//Monk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk) (animal companion, wildshape, spells, flurry, Wis-SAD, full casting)

Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle)//Paladin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin) (Full BAB, Charisma to saves, full casting, heavy armor proficiency). Careful selection of mystery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle#TOC-Mystery), Revelation, Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses), and archetypes can also get you selectable Wizard spells and an animal companion (Say... Lunar Mystery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/lunar-mystery): Primal Companion for an animal companion, the Spirit Guide Archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) to pick up the Lore Spirit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/lore) for the Arcane Enlightenment hex to pick up an assortment of Wizard spells, with maybe the Forsaken curse for the self-revival or the Feral curse for wild shape). Lay on Hands gives you reasonable amounts of healing - and something to do with your swift actions - and opens up the Ultimate Mercy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ultimate-mercy) feat for cheap resurrection of your fellow party member and your animal companions.

Druid (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid)//Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue) (a little MAD, but stacking Sneak Attack on top of multiple attacks from Wildshape means most things get dead quickly... also gives trapfinding).


The reason I didn't suggest Wizard in one single build suggestion, and ALL of them had an animal companion:
Florian's right. With just two characters, you've got action economy problems. Yes, a Wizard can indeed overcome this... but it takes a fair amount of skill to do properly, can have some pretty hefty level requirements, and is often viewed as too optimal for many gaming tables. An animal companion, on the other hand, is fairly straightforward, and is a disposable meatshield (as is a Summoner's Eidolon).

Having both yours and your friend's characters come with built-in disposable meatshields greatly helps with action economy issues, as long as your disposable meatshields don't have much of an action cost (animal companions are a good choice because they have a lot support in terms of feats such as Distant Spell Link (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/distant-spell-link) or Improved Share Spells (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-share-spells)). You both have your meatshields attack the enemies directly while the two of you cast spells to buff your companions, control the battlefield and cut opposing groups into bite-sized encounters, to take down the enemy directly, or to debuff the enemy.

With a party of two, you'll really want the extra buffer zone of a disposable meatshield. You can get that disposable meatshield with a Druid, Summoner, Oracle (with the right revelations), Cleric (with the right domains), and probably a few other ways. When you don't have something that gets the meatshield easily in your build, it's a lot harder. That Wizard//Rogue... doesn't get it easily (Charm, Dominate, Simulacrum, Planar Binding, and a few other methods can get such... but those either don't last long (charm person is an hour/level) require higher levels (charm monster is Sor/Wiz 4), are expensive (Simulacrum has a hefty GP cost) or some mix). Most the options I'm listing can have a disposable meatshield from level 1, as an Ex class feature.

Oh yes, and there's a bit of a problem with Spellwarp Sniper: It's a dual-progression class (sneak attack and casting). The gestalt rules suggest not permitting such.

A sneak attack caster? Great goal! Here's two builds that will do it and can still handle the action economy concerns well:
Druid//Ninja (Complete Arcane version). All good saves, Wis to AC, swift-action ability to go invisible (based on Wis), Wildshape to get lots of attacks, an Animal Companion to soak up enemy attacks, and Sudden Strike (activated by invisibility) on the many attacks you'll get.
Oracle//Rogue. All good saves, a rather lot of options (see the Oracle//Paladin build above, and use all the same Oracle stuff), and a sneak-attack rider on the ranged touch spells (of which there's a rather lot, seeing as how you can get both Cleric and Wizard ones).


Oh yes, and there is, of course, the general gestalt advice:

1) Avoid MAD, look for SAD. Sure, that Paladin//Wizard looks great on paper... but to play him as a Paladin and a Wizard, you need Str (melee), Dex (AC, as you can't use armor), Con (HP), Int (Spells), Wis (Spells again), and Cha (Various Paladin class features). The Paladin//Oracle, on the other hand, is no more MAD than a normal Paladin (Str for melee, Con for HP, charisma for spells and Paladin class features, maybe a touch of Wis for Paladin spells - no need for Dex, as you've got heavy armor proficiency).

2) Watch the Action Economy, look for passive/active combinations. Sure, that Sorcerer//Oracle looks good on paper (ALL THE SPELLS ALL THE TIME), but it doesn't work out that way generally - both classes are competing for the same set of actions, so you're not really significantly better than a normal Oracle or a normal Sorcerer. Something like a Rogue//Druid, on the other hand, is passively adding sneak attack dice to the multiple natural attacks + Pounce that the Druid gets through Wildshape; as a combat druid, it's all using the same set of actions at once. An Oracle//Paladin gets a lot of nice passive benefits from the Paladin side (Divine grace, swift-action self healing, heavy armor proficiency, full BAB, d10 HD), and can do some very active stuff with the Oracle side (spells and/or long-term buffs to wade into melee).

3) Avoid class features that interfere with each other. Sure, that Sorcerer//Paladin looks pretty good... but it's hard to cast Arcane spells in heavy armor, so you need to either give up much of the Sorcerer casting, or you need to give up much of the cheap AC that comes from heavy armor that the Paladin side lets you use. If you use a Divine caster instead of an Arcane one, however, there's no problems casting in armor.

4) Make sure to end up with a nice chassis. Yes, that Wizard//Sorcerer ends up with ultimate arcane might... but it's a d6 hit die, one good save, and poor BAB. You want at least two good saves (and can usually get three), a d8 hit die (although d10 is better), and at least medium BAB. That Druid//Rogue gets a d8 HD, all good saves, and medium BAB. That Paladin//Oracle gets d10 HD, two good saves, and full BAB.

5) The game still rewards specialization. Unless you're short party members, don't try to be a Jack of all trades, as you're likely to end up a master of none. You've only got one set of feats, one allocation of wealth, and so on. A Paladin//oracle and an Oracle//paladin look very similar if that's all you know about them, but they're actually quite different. The first uses Oracle buffs to supplement the Paladin abilities and wade into melee, and picks up feats and items primarily related to melee (so Power Attack, cleave, a nice sword, good armor, and so on). The second uses Paladin benefits to be able to slack off on a few things the Oracle would otherwise need while the Oracle zaps away with spells (so metamagic, extra revelation, Charisma boosters, metamagic rods, and so on). They play quite differently. If you try to be a full Oracle//Paladin, however, your feats and wealth are going to be stretched quite thin, and you'll be less useful at either role.

Edit: Oh yes, and you may have problems obeying all of these completely. That's actually OK. You'll usually end up not using at least some class features - for instance, that Oracle//paladin isn't going to be getting much use out of that full BAB, due to how easy it is to land (ranged) touch spells. It's still a strong combination. All else being equal, the more of these you can follow, and the better you can follow them, the stronger overall the character. However: Character power does not trump player or DM fun. It's hard to stress that enough. You're playing a game with no real stakes. The only true definition of winning is "Did everyone have consequence-free fun?" If the answer is yes, then you won. If the answer is no, then you lost. In the end, your character doesn't really matter: You do, and your friends do. If everyone has fun playing a party of bards that get TPK'd every other session? That's a win. If everyone has fun playing a party of optimized characters that roll over CR+10 encounters? That's a win too. If someone at the table is perpetually bored with the uber-characters, that's a loss. If something in-game breaks a real-life friendship, that's a loss too. Know your actual priorities.

[avr]

Captain Morgan's right. With Dazzling Display/Shatter Defences you'll be receiving more full attacks than you'll be giving. It's a nice option for the right situation but you don't want it to be your go-to.

His class analysis looks good. Just focusing on one part of it - playing kitsune might imply an interest on your part. If I'm off target ignore this, but a synthesist summoner // slayer who takes the Summon Eidolon spell might write after it "Magical Girl Transformation Sequence".

Also summoners can heal their eidolon, and for a synthesist summoner that means they can heal themself, which matches your original concern.

[Captain Morgan]

Captain Morgan's right. With Dazzling Display/Shatter Defences you'll be receiving more full attacks than you'll be giving. It's a nice option for the right situation but you don't want it to be your go-to.

His class analysis looks good. Just focusing on one part of it - playing kitsune might imply an interest on your part. If I'm off target ignore this, but a synthesist summoner // slayer who takes the Summon Eidolon spell might write after it "Magical Girl Transformation Sequence".

Also summoners can heal their eidolon, and for a synthesist summoner that means they can heal themself, which matches your original concern.

Oh! And if you are satisfied with that and a wand of CLW on the heal side, you could go summoner/ninja. Mad skill points, some better talents than the Rogue including Greater Invisibility, a ki pool based off your primary stat... And natural weapons, pounce, and sneak attack make for a killer combo.

[Artillery]

If Psionics is an option I say go Psion Egoist. It has easy access to temporary hitpoints and ways to heal without being a big focus. Metamorphosis is nice because it gives Fast Healing 2 for minutes/level, so its 100hp out of combat.

If you want to really be Int focused you Psion with Warder from Path of War would be very good. Gestalt you end up with D12 hitdice, Full BAB, 4+int skill points, good saves for Fortitude and Will, and you get to add your Intelligence modifier to reflex saves starting level 4. Your number of AoO is based on your Int modifier as well. Also Psion's don't have arcane failure chance in armor so no issue there.

[Elxir_Breauer]

With a decent Int and a decent Wis, you could even go with Warder//Vitalist. Vitalist is basically a Psionic Healer that doesn't have to worry about silly things like having to be in melee range of their healing target, having to worry about getting hit if they decide to hang back to heal from range, stuff like that. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist It can be a tank in its own right, even without insanely convoluted build options, especially with the Soulthief method. This is of course, provided that Psionics are open for you to pick.