Earth Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Extra Spell

[LordOfCain]

You are a 6th level wizard, use sanctum spell, earth spell, and heighten spell on a 2nd level spell. It uses a 3rd level slot and is treated as a 5th level spell. Use extra slot to get a 4th level spell. Possible? Opinions?

[Jormengand]

Yes, but you don't know any spells of that level and can't cast spells of that level, so the slot is useless.

[LordOfCain]

Yes, but you don't know any spells of that level and can't cast spells of that level, so the slot is useless.

Couldn't you learn it from a scroll? NOT sure how to let you cast it. It is low CL preventing you right?

[Jormengand]

Couldn't you learn it from a scroll? NOT sure how to let you cast it. It is low CL preventing you right?

The trouble is partly CL, but mainly the fact that the value in the table isn't 0, it's -, indicating that you can't cast spells of that level.

[LordOfCain]

The trouble is partly CL, but mainly the fact that the value in the table isn't 0, it's -, indicating that you can't cast spells of that level.
Does that completely stop you from casting spells of that level?

[Jormengand]

Does that completely stop you from casting spells of that level?

Except for using spell trigger or spell completion items, or something else that specifically calls you out as able to cast a higher-level spell, yes.

[Nohwl]

you can pair earth spell and sanctum spell with shadowcraft mage for higher level spells than you could normally cast, since they'd be illusions.

[LordOfCain]

you can pair earth spell and sanctum spell with shadowcraft mage for higher level spells than you could normally cast, since they'd be illusions.

How so? VIA the shadow illusion feature?

[Nohwl]

How so? VIA the shadow illusion feature?

yes, you'd use use heighten spell to boost up silent image to some level, earth spell would boost it by another +1, and then you could mimic a sanctumed version of the spell for another +1.

[LordOfCain]

For a total of????

[Artillery]

How so? VIA the shadow illusion feature?

Yeah, you can emulate 4th level spells via your Heightened Silent Image. You don't need to know 4th level spells to emulate them either as long as its evocation, conjuration(summoning), or conjuration(creation).

Silent Image is a 1st level spell. You use Heighten to put it in a 4th level slot probably from bonus spells. Because you are boosting the spell level by 3 Earth Spell boosts the spell level an additional 1 effectively and increases your caster level by 3 giving you caster level 8. It counts as a 5th level illusion spell for Shadow Illusion so you can cast 4th level spells that are applicable without needing to know them. You meet the minimum caster level for a 4th level spell, 7, as well.

Don't even need sanctum spell for it with Shadow Craft Mages.
For Clarity:
Earth Spell gives a Caster Level boost equal to the number of Spell levels you increased the normal level by with heighten.
Example, a lvl 2 Wizard with CL 2 used Height Spell on a 1st level spell to put it into a 2nd level slot. The spell cast from that slot counts as a 3rd level spell but with a CL of 3.

If you are a lvl 20 Wizard with CL20 and heighten a 1st level spell to a 9th level slot with Heighten and Earth Spell it counts as a 10th level spell for svaes etc and you have a caster level of 28 for it.

[Nohwl]

For a total of????

heightened spell level+2, which lets you cast spells of heightened spell level+1.

i'll give an example. say you're 9th level wizard with earth spell and sanctum spell. normally you can cast 5th level spells.

heighten silent image to 5th level - your normal maximum. earth spell kicks it up to 6 (and also boosts your caster level). i could then use that 6th level silent image to mimic a spell of 5th level or lower. when you're outside of your sanctum spells count as one level lower, so you can mimic spell of 6th level (counting as 5th because you're outside of your sanctum).

you can boost it further with easy metamagic or practical metamagic (i forget which) and then stuff like arcane thesis and invisible spell.

[LordOfCain]

What about forceful magic or whatever it was called?

[Crake]

If you have the slot, you can prepare the spell into the slot and cast it, I have yet to see a rules quote say otherwise. Minimum CL to cast a spell is whatever you have at the point where a slot becomes available to you, which, if you can get that early, is not an issue, otherwise classes like Ur-Priest or the chameleon (which can cast 2nd level spells at CL1 I might add) wouldn't function due to not having a high enough caster level to cast their spells.

As long as you have something you can prepare in that slot, either a high enough level spell (nothing stops you from scribing higher level spells into your spellbook, so that's not an issue, and next level when you get to scribe 2 spells into your spellbook, they can be 5th level, since that's the highest slot you have available), or metamagic up some lower level ones.

[LordOfCain]

If you have the slot, you can prepare the spell into the slot and cast it, I have yet to see a rules quote say otherwise. Minimum CL to cast a spell is whatever you have at the point where a slot becomes available to you, which, if you can get that early, is not an issue, otherwise classes like Ur-Priest or the chameleon (which can cast 2nd level spells at CL1 I might add) wouldn't function due to not having a high enough caster level to cast their spells.

As long as you have something you can prepare in that slot, either a high enough level spell (nothing stops you from scribing higher level spells into your spellbook, so that's not an issue, and next level when you get to scribe 2 spells into your spellbook, they can be 5th level, since that's the highest slot you have available), or metamagic up some lower level ones.
Yay!!!! Any more opinions?

[Jormengand]

In order to cast that spell, you are relying on dash plus one equaling one. It's a bit like saying "The number of spells of this level you can cast is the fourth number in the set [4, 3] plus one". There is no fourth number in the set. The dash on the table is to indicate you cannot cast spells of this level, which is explicitly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm) different (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm) to (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm) being able to cast zero spells of that level.

As another example, a wizard with 20 intelligence at first level gets a bonus fifth level spell slot per day (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#abilitiesAndSpellcasters), but no-one is going to suggest that he can actually cast it just because "High enough class level to cast spells of a given spell level" isn't spelled out because it's assumed that the player is clever enough to know what that means.

[LordOfCain]

In order to cast that spell, you are relying on dash plus one equaling one. It's a bit like saying "The number of spells of this level you can cast is the fourth number in the set [4, 3] plus one". There is no fourth number in the set. The dash on the table is to indicate you cannot cast spells of this level, which is explicitly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm) different (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm) to (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm) being able to cast zero spells of that level.

As another example, a wizard with 20 intelligence at first level gets a bonus fifth level spell slot per day (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#abilitiesAndSpellcasters), but no-one is going to suggest that he can actually cast it just because "High enough class level to cast spells of a given spell level" isn't spelled out because it's assumed that the player is clever enough to know what that means.
Okay... I suppose some Shadowcraft Mage would work...

[Segev]

Technically, doesn't a wizard's spellbook rules say that they can only learn spells of a level they can cast? If so, that would mean that having a slot for a 4th level spell owuld let them learn spells of that level. (Of course, you can get into arguments over whether the rules for Precocious Apprentice then allow you to learn 2nd level spells...but unless you gain bonus 2nd level spell slots, you still couldn't cast them, so it's probably a moot point.)

[LordOfCain]

Okay... I suppose some Shadowcraft Mage would work...
WAIT!

The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers; or Charisma for sorcerers and bards. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. (See the class descriptions for details.) A level 1 wizard does not have the required class level. So are there any other things that could be horrendous or say this could not work?

[LordOfCain]

Opinions anyone?

[LordOfCain]

Would Eldritch Corruption stack with Earth Spell?

[Nohwl]

WAIT!
A level 1 wizard does not have the required class level. So are there any other things that could be horrendous or say this could not work?

With scm and silent image you mimic the higher level spell, not actually cast it. It's why you don't pay xp whenever you mimic miracle or something else that normally costs xp. You wouldn't pay the corruption cost for something like apocalypse from the sky either.