To prestige or not to prestige

[Shadowbane13]

So I noticed I accidentally started the whole dragon shaman DFA thing and I just wanted to say that I did stick with the shaman. (The DM gave me some magical items to boost auras). I am mostly a meat shield with the high health but that's about it. My new question is what would people say one should prestige into out of the dragon shaman class?

[Troacctid]

Something standalone that doesn't rely on the abilities of your base class. My go-to options are Ur-Priest and Chameleon, both of which are easy enough to get into.

[Shadowbane13]

What books they out of?

[Shadowbane13]

I saw that dragon lord isn't half bad. Helps your aura bonus a bit better than DS

[DrMotives]

What books they out of?

Ur-Priest is in Book of Vile Darkness, and Chameleon is from Races of Destiny.

[Pluto!]

Ur-Priest was also reprinted for 3.5 in Complete Divine (not sure if there were updates) and Chameleon is also available on the WotC website (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b).

Basically nothing advances Dragon Shaman's abilities. Dragon Shaman abilities are also mostly really bad, so that isn't really a bad thing from a power perspective, but there's not much that feels worse than having something like Dragon Disciple 4/Warblade 1/Warmind 10 at level 15 and kicking yourself for wasting 4 whole levels on a 2d6 breath weapon and +1 weapon damage.

I can't think of any case where I'd start in Dragon Shaman and choose to Prestige Class out - if I sink a level in the class, I'm probably putting them all in, just to keep the class's abilities close to level-appropriate.

[Troacctid]

I saw that dragon lord isn't half bad. Helps your aura bonus a bit better than DS

Dragon Lord is a trap. For one thing, it doesn't actually do anything, which is bad. You want your class to do something. For another thing, it doesn't stack with Dragon Shaman, either for the number of auras you can project or the bonus they provide. So it's just terrible in general, and even more terrible for a Dragon Shaman. You are definitely right that it's not half bad, though--it's at least 85% bad, by my reckoning.

An option if you want to be a melee combatant would be to multiclass as a Warblade or Crusader. Because of their unique multiclass-friendly mechanics, it is very easy to salvage an underpowered build with an audible into an initiator class. Commoner 4/Warblade 16 is a better fighter than a Fighter 20.


I can't think of any case where I'd start in Dragon Shaman and choose to Prestige Class out - if I sink a level in the class, I'm probably putting them all in, just to keep the class's abilities close to level-appropriate.

If you start as a Dragon Shaman, the best thing you can do is to get out. Don't throw good levels after bad. It's not as if taking more levels is going to magically make the class's abilities level-appropriate--the more you take, the weaker you'll be.

[GilesTheCleric]

If you start as a Dragon Shaman, the best thing you can do is to get out. Don't throw good levels after bad. It's not as if taking more levels is going to magically make the class's abilities level-appropriate--the more you take, the weaker you'll be.

I think a few of you are taking this a bit seriously. Sure, Dragon Shaman is not favourably balanced against many other classes. However, that doesn't mean it's not a good pick for a class. If the GM cares (and it seems that they do -- the OP has already gotten a little help up), then they're going to try and make it work.

Now, OP, what are you looking for in terms of PrCs? Do you want to continue to advance DS things and gain a few other tricks, or gain a whole new set of tricks? I'm assuming the latter otherwise you'd probably be taking more DS levels, but I'd rather not assume.

[Pluto!]

If you start as a Dragon Shaman, the best thing you can do is to get out. Don't throw good levels after bad. It's not as if taking more levels is going to magically make the class's abilities level-appropriate--the more you take, the weaker you'll be.
If the goal is to make a powerful character, I agree. No levels of Dragon Shaman is ideal, and 4 levels is better than 20.

But if the player wants to take levels in Dragon Shaman, I don't think I'm going on too much of a limb to assume they want to use Dragon Shaman abilities. And if they're spending actions/resources to use Dragon Shaman abilities (eg. breathing fire, reminding players to add the bonus that matters once every 10th roll or so, missing a lot with their clubs), they're better off if the breath that they wasted two feats and a standard action breathing did 8d6 damage instead of 2d6.

If the player is just leveling in Dragon Shaman because they want to write the name across their sheet, then yeah - they'd absolutely be better off going into Druid or something at level 2 and doing something sweet like turning into a Dragon, while having a bestest pet buddy who is also Dragon and wrecking the world with big dragon-fluffed spells. I just get the impression that this guy actually wants to play a Dragon Shaman. Like, on purpose.

[Pex]

Whatever you do, go into a prestige class because it fits your character concept and/or offers abilities you find fun to play. Do not go into a prestige class for the sake of going into a prestige class because if you don't you must be playing wrong.

[Troacctid]

If the player is just leveling in Dragon Shaman because they want to write the name across their sheet, then yeah - they'd absolutely be better off going into Druid or something at level 2 and doing something sweet like turning into a Dragon, while having a bestest pet buddy who is also Dragon and wrecking the world with big dragon-fluffed spells. I just get the impression that this guy actually wants to play a Dragon Shaman. Like, on purpose.

You get all the interesting abilities from the class in the first few levels, and they don't scale meaningfully past that, so if you're actually interested in breath weapons and buffing your allies and...Skill Focus, I guess? Well, then, you got them, and investing more levels isn't going to make them significantly better.

Do Monks need to take as many Monk levels as possible to maximize their speed bonus and slow fall distance? Do Barbarians need to stay single-classed so they can get another +1 damage reduction and +2 to AC against traps? Some classes are frontloaded. That's just how this edition is.

[Shadowbane13]

Now, OP, what are you looking for in terms of PrCs? Do you want to continue to advance DS things and gain a few other tricks, or gain a whole new set of tricks? I'm assuming the latter otherwise you'd probably be taking more DS levels, but I'd rather not assume.

I'm mainly trying to get a crazy breath weapon to take out swarms. Other than that I'm doing weapon smithing to give myself better melee stuff

[Fouredged Sword]

I would then point you to the much more powerful Dragon Fire Adept. You can be a walking AOE cone without waiting turns between uses. You get almost identical flavor, but you are more a warlock with a breath weapon than a marshal with a breath weapon. See if your DM will let you retrain your levels into the better class. Auras can be gained as feats.

[LordOfCain]

I would then point you to the much more powerful Dragon Fire Adept. You can be a walking AOE cone without waiting turns between uses. You get almost identical flavor, but you are more a warlock with a breath weapon than a marshal with a breath weapon. See if your DM will let you retrain your levels into the better class. Auras can be gained as feats.

He is already set on Dragon Shaman from what I can tell from this thread and the previous one he started.

[Shadowbane13]

Yeah I'm gonna stick with dragon shaman. Taking metabreath feats and weaponsmithing. So I'll boost my weapon for melee between my breath attacks. May try to find an enchanter for some special ability to lower wait time for breath weapon

[GilesTheCleric]

If you want the flavour of breath weapons and the DS class, maybe you could use a sand blaster (Ss?) or a mister or sprayer (AaEG?). I think Rubik had a thread dissecting the sand blaster a few months ago that had all sorts of neat ideas. Fluffwise, you could say that your sand blaster or mister has a spray head that looks like that of a dragon, then a flexible neck that leads to the container/ dragon's body. Mechanically, it lets you attack swarms while your breath weapon is on cooldown.