Light Cleric Multiclass?

[Starchild7309]

Ok so I am approaching 8th level with a light cleric. I will be bumping his Wis to an 18 at that point. After that though I am not sure if I should stick with straight Cleric or multiclass and if so, what might work. I don't have my sheet in front of me but his stats are something like this:

Str: 13
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha:14

At 4th level I took the the Observant Feat which bumped my Wis to 16 and gave me the other benefits. His background is Acolyte. NG and a worshiper of Lathander. Any ideas would be helpful. I was hoping to find something that would make him more interesting than a fireball dispensing healbot....but perhaps thats all he is?

[Vemynal]

Do keep in mind that you don't get all proficiencies when you multiclass. In fact I don't think any multiclass gives heavy armor unless you start with it. So unless you're willing to burn a feat I'd say that being front and center in combat might not be the best option.

You'll also need to meet the minimum stat requiremeets and the only ones I can think of looking at your character are Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlock.

Speaking as someone also playing as a Light Cleric I'd say stick with it if the above are your only options. Personally I love that I have an offensive fire based domain spell at each level. It allows me to prepare nothing but utility/support spells, allowing greater breadth of options and utility while I can always convert them to an offensive bomb if needed.
Any of the above classes will focus on better melee prowess while reducing your spell casting capabilities and not allowing you to greater improve your AC / progressing your slots (sorcerer, warlock, druid) but not the quality of your spells. For example you don't get the +Wis mod to Cantrip damage unless it's a Cleric cantrip. The only one in existence (sadly) is Sacred Flame. So it's not like you can stack that to your Warlock Eldritch Blast or anything (although omg Eldritch Blast + Wis mod + Cha mod would be so good haha)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I would go Land Druid for two reasons.

1: Goodberry works with your cleric healing features (as said by wotc)

2: Wildshape could be a fun little thing to work with. You are a cleric of all life, so you can take the forms of other life forms.

3: Grab some fun blasty/utility/area spells. I like Mountain Land Druids as they get lightning bolt and wall of stone. Druids also get there ever awesome spike growth spell.

[WickerNipple]

1: Goodberry works with your cleric healing features (as said by wotc)


He's a Light cleric, not a Life cleric.

I think in general Light clerics are best going straight to 20, and grabbing Wis 20 asap.

[Vemynal]

You are a cleric of all life

Read again darlin, he said he's a Light Cleric. Think of us as the Blasty Fireball casting Sorcerer equivalent of a Cleric. You're thinking the guy in heavy armor who War Hammers things in the face while healing obnoxiously well. If he was a War Cleric he'd have a couple of things he could multiclass to for benefit lol

edit - ninja'd by the smart squid-faced man in the blue robe

[joaber]

He could multiclass as bard too.

you can multiclass as fighter lvl 2 for AC boost and action surge, or even lvl 3 as EK to get shield spell, since I don't see to much benefit in the 3rd channel divinity use at right level for a light cleric. But don't have worry.

sorcerer with quick ou twin would be good, but need more lvls to have a good number of SP so you'll lose your high lvl spells.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

He's a Light cleric, not a Life cleric.

I think in general Light clerics are best going straight to 20, and grabbing Wis 20 asap.

Eh, so we add in some GRR Martin ideology of life while we are at it?

I still think Druid for pretty much the same reasons, except the healing stuff.

Druid has some awesome spells. I would just go moon druid though since Light has all the blasty spells they would need (unless you want lightning bolt).

Wildshape is fun, not as fun as 4e wildshape, but still fun.

Light clerics don't need to get their Wis to 20 any faster than other ones, actually, they can rely on a lower Wis as their AoE spells deal damage on a pass or fail.

[Vemynal]

they can rely on a lower Wis as their AoE spells deal damage on a pass or fail.

In my experience this just is all the more reason to get Wisdom to 20 immediately. Its a matter of all or nothing in the case of a large number of spells; especially your staple cantrip Sacred Flame.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

In my experience this just is all the more reason to get Wisdom to 20 immediately. Its a matter of all or nothing in the case of a large number of spells; especially your staple cantrip Sacred Flame.

From what I've seen in game, if you have 18 by level 10 and 20 by level 16 or so then you will do just fine.

Monster saves aren't all that great, except for the ones that *really really really are* and even then, they typically have a weak point you can exploit. If you need to then pop off a Hold spell (which helps everyone in the group, not just you) and then drop an AoE on the target.

[Flashy]

Something that would make him more interesting than a fireball dispensing healbot....but perhaps thats all he is?

Eh, the caster focused clerics are exactly as healbot-y as you play them. I'd encourage you to take a session where you tell the rest of your group that you're not preparing any healing spells apart from Healing Word, and just try playing your light cleric as a straight buffing/blasting character. Honestly, it's what it's built to do and it does it pretty well. It's surprising how different the class plays when you don't try to force it to be a primary healer. Perhaps you aren't dealing with that, and I'm misinterpreting.

I've been playing a knowledge cleric for the last year or so, and I refuse to get boxed into the healing role. My group does just fine without any other primary spellcasting healer.

[Starchild7309]

Eh, the caster focused clerics are exactly as healbot-y as you play them. I'd encourage you to take a session where you tell the rest of your group that you're not preparing any healing spells apart from Healing Word, and just try playing your light cleric as a straight buffing/blasting character. Honestly, it's what it's built to do and it does it pretty well. It's surprising how different the class plays when you don't try to force it to be a primary healer. Perhaps you aren't dealing with that, and I'm misinterpreting.

I've been playing a knowledge cleric for the last year or so, and I refuse to get boxed into the healing role. My group does just fine without any other primary spellcasting healer.

The problem I am having is as a cleric I am having to conserve spells to put everyone back together after what feel like marathon encounters strung together and with the spells not restoring and only the one divine ability refreshing after a short rest, I truly feel like in battle I can't do much that keep up one spell and through sacred flame at things that save 75% of the time or more. It gets boring.

This last session we fought devils and I wanted to stick a pencil through my eye as not one spell went through and I spent most of the time keeping everyone on their feet and after a string of 4 intense battles I was at 1 hp and totally tapped out of spells and that seems the norm...perhaps I am playing it wrong, but with a save of 14 against anything but chumps, most of my spells fail horribly.

When we have slow days of just one or to encounters things are great, but as soon as we get into "battles" of fight after fight I turn into a heal bot with people calling for healing constantly. I have explained to them thats not my job, but if they die, I die more often than not. I am horrible at melee attacking at +5 for 1d6+2 and it doesn't help that at level 7 I have a whopping 42 hp. AC is 18 with a shield, but my DM must hate me cause my armor could be 52 and he would still hit me. I have spent more time laying down in battle that most other things cause apparently killing the cleric is might important. (I know this is a separate issue, though out DM does roll in the open, he consistently rolls 15+ against me. Hell I almost died when attacked by commoners)

I am just frustrated by this character, others in the party are shining and I am trudging along trying to keep up. It should be noted that all of this stems from my argument that in 5th ed. your initial stats are super important. I rolled just good enough to have to keep the rolls and others rolled character with two 18s and they are unbelievably better suited at most things than my character and we are still 7 levels in.

ehh whatever I just feel like I am venting and bitching now....

[Flashy]

You definitely aren't playing wrong, you've just been jammed into the Light Cleric's nightmare scenario. Light Cleric is utterly reliant on having that high Wisdom score, your party refuses to let you save up your spells for the situations your subclass is designed for, and Fiends are probably the single worst category of creatures for a Light Cleric to have to deal with. It's utterly unintuitive, but since they all have fire resistance and many pile spell resistance on top of that you often genuinely won't have a reliable way to deal with them period. Basically your only option is to just spam Guiding Bolt, which you can't do if your party is constantly insistent that you use your spell slots for healing. Just to double check, they're actually using all their hit dice on these days where are your spells are being drained for healing, right? Because if they aren't then they're expecting you to carry a healing load that the system has already given them a way to deal with themselves.

It sounds like you have a couple options.

Hope it just gets a little better. Against outsiders without spell resistance and monsters that aren't resistant to fire you're going to do a lot, lot better. You get a 2nd use of your channel divinity per short rest at 6th level, which in a standard rest cycle is supposed to be two or three extra uses per day. That'll be a big help against crowds, and it'll at least give you a reliable source of damage your enemies aren't resistant to.
Talk to your DM about a domain swap. I don't know how legalistic your DM is about fluff, but either Tempest or Arcana make tolerable blasters and could be plausibly fluffed as about the same as a Light Cleric. Tempest gets you Call Lightning for a good blasting to spell slot ratio, and Arcana gets you your pick of Wizard cantrips so you don't have to worry about not having a fall back option. You could also just give in to what your group wants and go for a life cleric, but that doesn't seem like something you want to do.
Multiclassing is an option, but it's not one I really like on the caster Clerics. There's no good jump off point, since your only real choices without getting super MAD are Ranger or Druid, and neither of those gets you a whole lot. Druid basically lets you trade maximum spell level for either bonus HP or an outrageous number of spells prepared, and Ranger lets you stack a couple mundane attack abilities onto a character that has essentially no features that interact with attack rolls. You're sacrificing your access to those really valuable mid-game Cleric spells like Banishment, Harm, Dispel Evil and Good, Flamestrike, etc for access to low level class abilities that don't help you very much. I'll echo the people upthread and suggest that your best option is probably to go Sorcerer for the metamagic.
Take Spell Sniper (Druid) for 60' Produce Flame so you at least have SOME kind of attack cantrip that keys off your primary stat. It'd take you a while to get there though.
Total reroll is a thing, but if you have to keep the statblock you're going to be moderately limited as any primary caster since you rolled unfairly low.

[Vemynal]

^- basically what he said about your circumstances. There was a Red and Blue Slaadi in my Encounters game on Saturday. I scored off 2 Fireballs that netted both of them and they failed both their saves (DC15) for a total of 62 damage. The things were at half health before they even got to the party and it was easy clean up from there.

What you said about your friends stats being better than yours? This is why I'm a fan of point buy and using standard hp increases at each level (+5hp for a d8 die prior to con or other bonuses).

If you have to keep your stats if you reroll I wouldn't suggest Life Cleric because of your strength. Its not high enough for Heavy Armor (Str 15). The same problem applies to War, Nature, and Tempest Domains. While Trickery has its own unique problems and Knowledge is the Skill Monkey cleric.

However the light at the end of the tunnel is that if you have access to the SCAG then an Arcane domain cleric would be a great fit. Their channel divinity ability allows them to "Turn" a single celestial, fiend, fey, or elemental. Eventually you're able to banish them with this, at level 8 you could Banish a single fiend of a CR 1 or lower.

Your heals can dispel negative spell effects on your friends characters (or yourself), you still add your wisdom mod to Sacred Flame ("cleric cantrips" lol), and at 17th level you get an insane ability; probably the most powerful Cleric Domain capstone of all. You can add 1 Wizard spell to your spell list as a Domain spell (i.e. its always considered prepared) for a 6th level, 7th level, 8th level, and 9th level spell O_o

So yeah, I'd either reroll an Arcane Domain Cleric (roleplay a loss of faith in one god and becoming a chosen of another?) or have a sit down with your DM and explain that your not having fun and that you would like him to change at least a couple of the above mentioned things that have landed you in this bad situation for a Light Cleric.

[Citan]

You definitely aren't playing wrong, you've just been jammed into the Light Cleric's nightmare scenario. Light Cleric is utterly reliant on having that high Wisdom score, your party refuses to let you save up your spells for the situations your subclass is designed for, and Fiends are probably the single worst category of creatures for a Light Cleric to have to deal with. It's utterly unintuitive, but since they all have fire resistance and many pile spell resistance on top of that you often genuinely won't have a reliable way to deal with them period. Basically your only option is to just spam Guiding Bolt, which you can't do if your party is constantly insistent that you use your spell slots for healing. Just to double check, they're actually using all their hit dice on these days where are your spells are being drained for healing, right? Because if they aren't then they're expecting you to carry a healing load that the system has already given them a way to deal with themselves.

It sounds like you have a couple options.

Hope it just gets a little better. Against outsiders without spell resistance and monsters that aren't resistant to fire you're going to do a lot, lot better. You get a 2nd use of your channel divinity per short rest at 6th level, which in a standard rest cycle is supposed to be two or three extra uses per day. That'll be a big help against crowds, and it'll at least give you a reliable source of damage your enemies aren't resistant to.
Talk to your DM about a domain swap. I don't know how legalistic your DM is about fluff, but either Tempest or Arcana make tolerable blasters and could be plausibly fluffed as about the same as a Light Cleric. Tempest gets you Call Lightning for a good blasting to spell slot ratio, and Arcana gets you your pick of Wizard cantrips so you don't have to worry about not having a fall back option. You could also just give in to what your group wants and go for a life cleric, but that doesn't seem like something you want to do.
Multiclassing is an option, but it's not one I really like on the caster Clerics. There's no good jump off point, since your only real choices without getting super MAD are Ranger or Druid, and neither of those gets you a whole lot. Druid basically lets you trade maximum spell level for either bonus HP or an outrageous number of spells prepared, and Ranger lets you stack a couple mundane attack abilities onto a character that has essentially no features that interact with attack rolls. You're sacrificing your access to those really valuable mid-game Cleric spells like Banishment, Harm, Dispel Evil and Good, Flamestrike, etc for access to low level class abilities that don't help you very much. I'll echo the people upthread and suggest that your best option is probably to go Sorcerer for the metamagic.
Take Spell Sniper (Druid) for 60' Produce Flame so you at least have SOME kind of attack cantrip that keys off your primary stat. It'd take you a while to get there though.
Total reroll is a thing, but if you have to keep the statblock you're going to be moderately limited as any primary caster since you rolled unfairly low.

Hi OP :)
I globally agree with hereabove.
With that said, upping WIS is a priority also.

Therefore, I'd suggest that the best solution is to pick at least 1 lvl of Druid, after lvl 8 (to get WIS and get better at hitting with your spells). Since you'll have 2 cantrips to choose from, you could take Shillelagh or Magic Stone to get a decent weapon attack and another attack (Produce Flame) or utility. Some lvl 1 spells could be useful to your team, such as Fog Cloud, Entangle or Faerie Fire.

For example, you could cast Faerie Fire on enemies for everyone to get advantage on, and it would also profit yourself either in melee (Shillelagh) or at range (Magic Stone / Produce Flame).

Or go Land Druid up to 3 to get classic nice spells (Heat Metal, Flaming Sphere, Moonbeam, Spike Growth) as well as specific goodies (Coast for Mirror Image, Grassland for Invisibility or Underdark for Web are all good choices).

Or go Moon Druid 2, cast Spirit Guardians then polymorph into a solid CR1 creature to move around enemies (works without multiclassing if there is someone in your party that can buff your defense/mobility such as with Sanctuary or Haste).

A few pists to consider. :) Have fun!

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Ok so I had a ton of stuff types up about how out of 168 creatures in the DM basic guide the percentage of creatures that, even with a 16 Wis score, will have a 65% or higher chance of failing a dex save.

It was beautiful, I swear it was so beautiful, but chrome decided it needed to crash. :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

Anyways... So I don't feel like I wasted my time.

At level 9 you have a 16 Wis and a DC 15.

85% of the creatures in the DM basic guide, yes I know it isn't the Monster Manual but it is a good representation of the scores and saves you will typically go up against, will fail a dexterity saving throw something like 60 % of the time. a majority of these creatures have a negative, +0, +1, or +2 to their dexterity saving throws.

I even had a fancy table for this, instead here is what my face looks like right now ===> :smallfurious:

11% Will fail a dex saving throw 50% of the time. (+4 Saves) (swarm of quippers, even on a pass they will on average take half their HP worth of damage from a basic fire ball... A swarm of swarm of quippers isn't that scary)

.5% will fail a dex saving throw 45% of the time. (+5 Saves)


So no, you really don't need to boost your Wis in order to be competent.

Yes, bigger numbers is usually better, in most cases I would agree. But not when it comes to AoE blasty type spellcasters. You never waste an action like a passed saving throw does when you cast Command or Suggestion. I've seen plenty of enemies and allies go down from a passed AoE save.

It all depends on what you feel is worth it. What are you giving up to get those higher numbers? Are you giving up a cool character design? Are you giving up those sweet sweet feats?

On an AoE blasty spellcaster I just don't see an increase of 10% (+3 to +5 to your wisdom modifier) being worth it if it means I don't get to customize my character with design choices or feats.

[Sir cryosin]

What are the other people in your party playing? And I need to lay the hammer down say "Look I'm not a heal bot use your hit die and spend some of your hard earn money on potions If you don't want to die."

[Starchild7309]

What are the other people in your party playing? And I need to lay the hammer down say "Look I'm not a heal bot use your hit die and spend some of your hard earn money on potions If you don't want to die."

The rest of the party consists of:

Drow Ranger: Newest player who burns all his spells on hail of thorns and basically has no concept of strategy.
Half elf warlock/bard: He has picked up some of the healing duties, but most of the time just fires EB at things.
Half elf Paladin of Vengeance: SMITE SMITE SMITE with no AC so his lay on hands gets eaten up quickly.
Human Wiz/Fighter: Never gets hit. Super high AC with abjurer...
Human Sorc/Fighter who never casts a spell unless he absolutely has too. Also took Hazirawn (evil ass great sword from Hoard of the dragon queen)

A typical series of fights go like this:

first fight: Drow uses all his spells, Warlock EB spam, Paladin SMITE SMITE SMITE (aww all my spells are gone), Wiz/fighter: I am full health, but most of my spells are gone, Sorc/fighter: I need healing, look i killed everything cause i am so good, don't mind that I have an insane weapon. Me One buff spell, one fire spell, scared flame spam...oh look my dm keeps saving...fun times. Oh I got hit in the face...lost my buff....oh is that a crit...damn face down. (I attribute that to ridiculous bad luck, but my DM consistently almost kills me every time and he rolls in the open)

Break between fight: I NEED HEALING (All, almost) Me: Do it yourself. Them: :smallfrown: Oh ok (proceed to expend every resource for healing.

DM: Oh look another band of roving bad guys, roll iniative

Second fight: Drow(run away and hide and shoot arrows), Paladin stands tall and then ends up face down on the ground, Fighter/wiz Tanks, but uses the last of his spells, Sorc/Fighter I don't care whats going on if the tank is on the ground mostly dead I have to buff and then maybe I will get involved with my awesome sword, maybe not. Warlock spam EB then gets surrounded and face down because no one else is drawing enemies from the squishy one. Me Oh I have a few hp still...I will throw up a buff, fire spell, draw my mace and try to tank some of these guys so the warlock doesn't die. Everyone else: stop casting spells we are gonna need your healing.

small break: Everyone: Heal me I have no more healing left... DM: You are still in the middle of a burning village with enemies all around. Me: Fine I will heal you, but just a little (Oh wait, there's almost all my spells) Hey guys lets work on not getting the crap beat out of us by doing reckless things. DM: You hear screams of loved ones coming form the center of town. Us: We rush forward blindly...

Fight Three: Drow(He is a younger kid) OMG THIS IS THE BOSS FIGHT! I don't have anything and only 2 arrows left...you guys are on your own. Paladin: I will handle this...oops I have no AC or HP now...I need to be healed. Warlock: I will fire EB but only from the maximum 120 feet (which is reasonable), Sorc Fighter: Well I used all my buffs last fight and then it was over so I am out of spells and I don't want to get into melee without buffs even though i have a badass sword I will stand back and firebolt. Wiz/Fighter: I will tank...oh my AC is so much lower and no I am surrounded and oh god this is gonna be a tough one. Me: I will just sacred flame since I have nothing anymore. Oh Wait I have my divine ability...WHY DOES EVERYTHING SAVE AGAINST ME EVERYTIME! Fine let me get my mace out...oh is that a crit? Why hello darkness.

So while this is not the case the entire time and it might be overly simplified...this is the basic outline of every large scale encounter. DM makes it hard or impossible to take a rest, everyone else does whatever they want and then cause I am interested in not dying I make sure everyone is on their feet at the cost of my spells slots. The one time I refused to heal I was admonished by other players and the DM as not being a team player..."after all you are the cleric"

[Ace Jackson]

When you say that the paladin has no AC, how bad are we talking and why exactly?

Is getting a mount an option? For any of your party and not just you. Mounts can be squishy, but 120 ft of movement (mount dash) every turn unless dodging or disengaging is nothing to sneeze at. You could also stack it with sanctuary, as the mount, if controlled, never takes direct hostile action, the rider may, but the mount doesn't, and so benefits from a charisma save and the regular AC of barding.

Beyond that I can't think of many other ideas to bring up which would fly. The bulk of the problems seem to stem from group dynamic. Also, how exactly does the drow ranger function? Don't Drow have a racial sunlight sensitivity?

Does the group ever try for intimidation checks? My group's seen some astonishing mileage out of it. Actually managing to scare off about 3/4ths of the group assaulting the temple, (HotDQ greenest), with a slurred mix of burning hands, faerie fire, gnomish incantations, and a molotov with light (the cantrip) cast on it. Frankly, your group sounds like it would get even more mileage out of that angle. A paladin of vengeance, a drow ranger, who I'm willing to wager is playing the cliches to the hilt as far as appearances go, and a sorc with an utterly evil and insane greatsword.

If the group could not comprehend the idea of people being cowed by the sight of them, even to the point of refusing to try it. I'd ask the DM to allow me to build a new character, failing that, I might actually give up on this group myself.

If I had to try one more thing, I'd try to get one more point of dex, multiclass monk for the unarmored defense, and see if I could carve a niche out with that.

[Starchild7309]

When you say that the paladin has no AC, how bad are we talking and why exactly?

Is getting a mount an option? For any of your party and not just you. Mounts can be squishy, but 120 ft of movement (mount dash) every turn unless dodging or disengaging is nothing to sneeze at. You could also stack it with sanctuary, as the mount, if controlled, never takes direct hostile action, the rider may, but the mount doesn't, and so benefits from a charisma save and the regular AC of barding.

This entire campaign has been a series of attrition. The paladin uses a two handed weapon, doesn't have full plate cause he can't afford it. The party is full of neutral aligned characters that seem to think being CN or N or LN means selfish and unable to show charity to others and therefore will not help make any of the rest of the group better for their sake. There is always something that the little treasure we do find has to be spent on. (in all honesty is a real drag) That and most of the battlefields we have been on are cluttered and horses would be a waste.


Beyond that I can't think of many other ideas to bring up which would fly. The bulk of the problems seem to stem from group dynamic. Also, how exactly does the drow ranger function? Don't Drow have a racial sunlight sensitivity?

Ahh yes well the ranger is very much the stereotypical, almost Drizzt drow. For lack of out right accusations, the drow is the DMs young son, its his first game so we are always in overcast weather or waylaid and forced to travel at night....coincidence....hmmm


Does the group ever try for intimidation checks? My group's seen some astonishing mileage out of it. Actually managing to scare off about 3/4ths of the group assaulting the temple, (HotDQ greenest), with a slurred mix of burning hands, faerie fire, gnomish incantations, and a molotov with light (the cantrip) cast on it. Frankly, your group sounds like it would get even more mileage out of that angle. A paladin of vengeance, a drow ranger, who I'm willing to wager is playing the cliches to the hilt as far as appearances go, and a sorc with an utterly evil and insane greatsword.

If the group could not comprehend the idea of people being cowed by the sight of them, even to the point of refusing to try it.

I have no good ability to intimidate, it was brought up once, the one person good at it failed the check and never tried again. I can bring it up again, but then again if you have played HotDQ you know about the Gauntlets. Our DM is big on the fact that "Evil must be destroyed" mentality of them so just scaring of evil is not good enough, if we want to continue to be part of the group we have to destroy it. Actually having inner conflict over the evil greatsword currently.

I also considered a new character, but I don't want to just bail on this one. I am trying to find a way to talk to the DM about it without sounding like I am whining or bitching.

[Ace Jackson]

Sorry to hear all that, that's though. Thinking about it a little more though, does your game involve any down time? If so, what is on the table? Our wild mage sorc has made a killing with gambling for example. Granted he almost never uses tides of chaos for fear of the surges, and constantly cheats with weighted dice, in game to be fair and clear, with a hard won discipline in spite being CN in nature every single time without variance, error, or being caught... But hey, what can you do?

Still, any music profiencies or anything should be able to help you bring in some coin if used strategically. I'm actually hoping to get a town festival going next chance I get, opening the way for the Sorc to do his gambling, the rouge his pick pocketing, the warlock's player a chance to slip his warlock back into the group discreetly, should he choose to do so discreetly, after playtesting a psion for a while, and my character a chance to finally use that instrument that he bought at the start of the campaign but hasn't actually gotten to use yet/break in the second level spell slots and IC learn that they can be used by using enhance ability cat's grace and dancing the night away prior to a long rest and the next leg of action.

Also, as an anecdote, when I made my character, I made it very clear to my GM that I expected the enmity of the order of the Gauntlet, due to the dawn cataclysm leaving a rift between Helm, the almost obnoxiously obvious patron of choice among the bigwigs of the order, and Lathander. Leaving my character open to most of the other organizations. Bringing this up might not be the best call with your DM though.

[busterswd]

You are falling into the healer trap. The game was literally not designed for you to be able to keep up with the amount of damage enemies do. Focus on ending combat earlier or safer, not on prolonging it by healing. Also do triage heals - forget about Cure Wounds. Prep Healing Word, and only use it on party members that are bleeding out. You literally cannot outheal enemy damage output.

You need AoE CC and force multipliers. I would normally never recommend dipping Druid, but a 1 level dip to get specific spells may be exactly what you need, specifically Entangle and Faerie Fire (and to a lesser extent, Fog Cloud). Goodberries also happen to be one of the best ways to burn excess spell slots BEFORE a long rest (or at the very tail end of a long rest, according to RAW)- every spell slot you have turns into 10 out of combat healing that lasts for 24 hours.

At the start of hairy looking fights, debuff as many enemies as you can (Entangle by default, Faerie Fire if they look particularly good at strength checks). Party members get advantage on all their bread and butter moves, enemies die faster, some enemies waste 1 or more turns trying to break free of the web, preventing them from actually hitting your team.

Here's the big problem: you can't wear metal armor or use metal items. So your AC may dip for a bit.

If you choose to stay cleric, use your Cleric CC on big, scary targets. Try to Banish the boss while your team mops up everyone else. Silence Casters before they start throwing out really nasty spells. Etc. But don't just heal bot and blast. You won't be able to sustain that.

[Flashy]

Have you considered the Lucky feat? It really helps with situations where the dice just pile up against you. I know you haven't got many ASIs to spare, but maybe someday?

[Ace Jackson]

--Snip--

Pretty solid stuff, but I will point out that faerie fire is already a domain spell, and thus always prepared as a light cleric anyway. I'd also suggest using spiritual gaurdians, possibly with spiritual weapon, as an emergency panic option. This all said, I would be interested in a dialogue with the GM about magic initiate: druid, for good berry, produce flame, and any other cantrip of choice, though I'm picking up druid craft to reflect the 'life' aspect of lathander for flavor.

Still produce flame is intriguingly ambiguous, it only has codified rules for using it as a lamp or a fastball special, but the fact that it harms neither you nor your equipment suggests much more versatility with a willing GM.

[WickerNipple]

I'd also suggest using spiritual gaurdians, possibly with spiritual weapon, as an emergency panic option.

Emergency panic option? No. This should be his go-to every single fight.

[Ace Jackson]

Emergency panic option? No. This should be his go-to every single fight.

Normally I'd agree, however, from what he's already described his party burns all their spell slots within the first two fights of the adventuring day. If this is the case, I'd definitely hold out on my own for the later, more difficult fights.

[Arkhios]

My opinion would be just stay cleric. Even if you didn't want to be a healer, you're one level from getting access to Raise Dead. That's hardly a combat spell, so you don't have to prepare it on daily basis. However, you group would appreciate if you had it, a healer or not. Those stats won't take you far in other ways anyway. Maybe wait for level 9, and think again after that. A moon druid might come in handy, you wouldn't have to worry about your physical ability scores ever again. Not for much at least, if and when you decided to wade into melee in your big bear form.

[MeeposFire]

What would constitute "interesting"? For instance some people find melee attacks interesting others do not so what works for you? It is hard to tell you what would work to make something interesting if we don't know what that entails. Most of the suggestions try to account for effectiveness but I am not sure if it is fitting your goal of being interesting or not.

[MrStabby]

As with a lot of these things there may be some options if the DM allows it.

You can RP the same character and maybe shift to light domain favoured soul or undying light warlock.

If your DM lets you swap Wis and Cha as casting stats then you can just play it as a slight change in the relationship between you and your god.

[Starchild7309]

As with a lot of these things there may be some options if the DM allows it.

You can RP the same character and maybe shift to light domain favoured soul or undying light warlock.

If your DM lets you swap Wis and Cha as casting stats then you can just play it as a slight change in the relationship between you and your god.

Yeah, that will never happen...back in .5 I brought up the subject of retraining some skills and he ranted on how stupid that idea is in the real world...yadda yadda yadda.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Yeah, that will never happen...back in .5 I brought up the subject of retraining some skills and he ranted on how stupid that idea is in the real world...yadda yadda yadda.

My coworker went to school for art, went back to school after a few years of no art-job, and is now a civil engineer with 10 years experience... Damn, I better tell that dude he doesn't know anything about the civil industry!

That DM has some serious problems.

[MrStabby]

Yeah, that will never happen...back in .5 I brought up the subject of retraining some skills and he ranted on how stupid that idea is in the real world...yadda yadda yadda.

Hmm. It isn't unreasonable to stop characters flipping about but in this case it seems a bit excessive.

Honestly, maybe you just need to restart; if you are not having fun then it kind of defeats the point of the game.

Before you do that, and especially if you like the character itself have a chat with your DM. Say the things you don't like at the start of the session, get the chance for him to see these in action and then discuss a plan to fix it.

Give your DM a chance to discuss other ways to fix it - let him homebrew stuff or offer to adjustments or, if it is still an obstacle for him just for him to let you take a new character.

[Starchild7309]

My coworker went to school for art, went back to school after a few years of no art-job, and is now a civil engineer with 10 years experience... Damn, I better tell that dude he doesn't know anything about the civil industry!

That DM has some serious problems.

In fairness he understands thats feasible, but in game time when you are moving from place to place with little to no down time between he is arguing that its impossible to focus on retraining and learning something new with no time to practice it. I understand that argument...I also get that since its a premade campaign that this one has a bit of a time limit on it. No time to take a year off and find myself per say.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

In fairness he understands thats feasible, but in game time when you are moving from place to place with little to no down time between he is arguing that its impossible to focus on retraining and learning something new with no time to practice it. I understand that argument...I also get that since its a premade campaign that this one has a bit of a time limit on it. No time to take a year off and find myself per say.

How it any different from learning new features? Or continuing practicing features you already know?

His argument doesn't hold up or make sense. These PCs aren't regular folk and they learn things by beating creatures to death, burning them, and running around away from civilization all the time (class features). And from time to time the things they learn has nothing to do with what they were doing.

Downtime, short rests, and long rests cover learning new things or relearning new things.

[downlobot]

I'm playing a level 7 cleric in al, so the group dynamic shifts regularly. However, it often takes some time for it to sink in: I'm not that kind of cleric. You can't heal well - you don't have the resources for it. That's not you failing to be a team player (or, it's a feature, not a bug). If possible, try to talk to the whole group about this - I'm not that kind of cleric. Work on only popping a healing word when someone goes down, and never spend spells on healing out of combat.

One thing that I wish I could do in al is homebrew a replacement for sacred flame. Just turning it into an attack (instead of a save) for me would make it much more fun. I have no idea how math works, so have no idea how much that would upset things (maybe drop the damage to a d6 to compensate?), but that's one simple, concrete thing you can talk to your dm about to make your game more fun.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I'm playing a level 7 cleric in al, so the group dynamic shifts regularly. However, it often takes some time for it to sink in: I'm not that kind of cleric. You can't heal well - you don't have the resources for it. That's not you failing to be a team player (or, it's a feature, not a bug). If possible, try to talk to the whole group about this - I'm not that kind of cleric. Work on only popping a healing word when someone goes down, and never spend spells on healing out of combat.

One thing that I wish I could do in al is homebrew a replacement for sacred flame. Just turning it into an attack (instead of a save) for me would make it much more fun. I have no idea how math works, so have no idea how much that would upset things (maybe drop the damage to a d6 to compensate?), but that's one simple, concrete thing you can talk to your dm about to make your game more fun.

I'm sorry to hear that, 5e tends to work better away from AL.

But the line "I'm not that kind of cleric" was used a lot in 3e and 4e, people come to games expecting clerics to be XYZ but because they are so diverse and powerful you can end up with a crazy ton different ways to play them.

In 3e, 4e, and 5e (more so 3e) you can have a party full of clerics and no one plays like the other.

Technically turning sacred flame into an attack roll would be fine balance wise, as in it wouldn't make you overly powerful.

[downlobot]

I'm fortunate enough to have more than one flgs in the area, and good groups at al when i've been able to attend, but i appreciate the sentiment.

@op, have you been using warding flare? The first several sessions I played i forgot that ability existed - it is limited, but can help with survivability and is much fun when it works.