Self-Buffing Casters in 5e

[LostHanyou]

I was wondering if casting classes in 5e can find it worthwhile to use their spell slots to self-buff and engage in melee combat? Obviously such a thing wouldn't always be optimal under every circumstance, and for the most part a caster would stay in the back - but I really like the character concept of a caster that can move to the front in a pinch.

I've heard things about the Valor Bard and the Bladesinger, but is there sufficient incentive for them actually use their spell slot(s) buffing themselves and then engaging in combat, rather than just chucking a fireball or two in the area? How much does a Bladesinger, for example, lose out when they decide to engage in melee rather than casting from the back?

Sorry for the loaded questions, but I've got my first IRL 5e game coming up and I really want to fulfill this character concept despite not having much experience with the game.

[Professor Gnoll]

The best choice for this kind of playstyle is probably the Eldritch Knight, who is often inclined towards buffing spells rather than attack spells to avoid MAD.

[Sir cryosin]

You might want a favored soul sorcerer. You get medium armor simple in martial weapons shields an extra attack and you have all the Nifty metamagic that sorcerers get. You can cast some sweet combos round 1 or befor fight cast haste on you twin it so it is casted on someone else to. Then start the fight burn 1 sp to cast booming blade or green flame blade as a bonus action. With that as you bonus action that 1 weapon attack the if your lv 6 you have your regular attack and a extra attack and you have haste for one more attack so you'll have 4 attacks .

[joaber]

i think multiclassing as martial + full caster will be the better option in that case. Get martial features and some martial hit dices + your spells.

[DracoKnight]

You might want a favored soul sorcerer. You get medium armor simple in martial weapons shields an extra attack and you have all the Nifty metamagic that sorcerers get. You can cast some sweet combos round 1 or befor fight cast haste on you twin it so it is casted on someone else to. Then start the fight burn 1 sp to cast booming blade or green flame blade as a bonus action. With that as you bonus action that 1 weapon attack the if your lv 6 you have your regular attack and a extra attack and you have haste for one more attack so you'll have 4 attacks .

Emphasis mine.

You don't get martial weapons as a Favored Soul.

[CrusaderJoe]

I was wondering if casting classes in 5e can find it worthwhile to use their spell slots to self-buff and engage in melee combat? Obviously such a thing wouldn't always be optimal under every circumstance, and for the most part a caster would stay in the back - but I really like the character concept of a caster that can move to the front in a pinch.

I've heard things about the Valor Bard and the Bladesinger, but is there sufficient incentive for them actually use their spell slot(s) buffing themselves and then engaging in combat, rather than just chucking a fireball or two in the area? How much does a Bladesinger, for example, lose out when they decide to engage in melee rather than casting from the back?

Sorry for the loaded questions, but I've got my first IRL 5e game coming up and I really want to fulfill this character concept despite not having much experience with the game.

The best example of this is the Cleric, Bard, and Druid. The Warlock can do well with this too but in a different way.

Abjuration wizards make good self buffers.

MC Abj Wiz/Warlock is probabaly the best self buff in the game, ridiculously awesome HP for a wizard.

EK and AT get low level spells way too late and never enough of them. They end up doing essentially what a fighter or rogue always does, damage.

Paladins can buff themselves but their spell slots are worth more for smites and smite spells.

[Nifft]

I haven't played much 5e (which is a pity), but in the few games that I have played, the ranged martial characters (specifically a Ranger and an archery Valor Bard) seemed to get the most bang for their self-buff buck.

They were sometimes able to make their Con saves, but mostly they just didn't have to save every round, so one casting of Hunter's Mark or Elemental Weapon could last for a while.

[bid]

The biggest limitation is that you can only have a single concentration spell active, and it's hard to keep it up without Con16 with save proficiency.

That still leaves temporary HP (AoA, False Life), movement (Longstrider, Misty Step) but you cannot stack much more.

And the reaction ones (shield, absorb element) require a free hand or warcaster.

I feel self-buffing is geared for 2-hander gish.

[SharkForce]

for a single-classed full caster, it can be possible to be reasonably effective by buffing themselves and then fighting regularly, but it will relatively infrequently be the strongest option available, and almost never will be better than a class that specializes in melee or ranged combat.

it generally works better with 1/2 or 1/3 casters, or multiclassing.

which is a good thing, really. if a single-classed full caster could fill the primary role of a melee or ranged warrior just as effectively with buffing as the real deal, there wouldn't be much point in being a melee or ranged warrior.

[Dalebert]

As a bladesinger, I find myself wading into combat to take heat off of other characters or to hold creatures at bay with the threat of AoOs. I don't do that much melee damage but I'm crazy hard to hit so it often feels really safe to do. Then I just cast spells right there point=blank. No problem... usually.

I'm curious to see how well the Booming Blade and back up tactic works now that I'm 5th and get the extra damage. I'm curious whether creatures will tend to take the bait or if they're just stand there to avoid damage. Either way, it's a win. The losing situation is if an ally doesn't have the sense not to close with that creature. That happened to me the one time I tried this tactic in a game so far.

[Sir cryosin]

You can go half elf variance from scag were you can get elf weapon training so you can grab long swords. or just grab feat weapon master.grab the feat medium armor master with a 16 dex for +3 bumping half Plat to 18 ac and you don't have disadvantage on stealth checks

[Coyote81]

I'm playing a Fighter1/Wizard6 Adjuration Minotaur character, I self buff a lot, I'm still focused on INT for my main stat but I do a whole lot of battlefield manipulation between defensive fighting style, minotaur's push BAs and various spells. My AC is through the roof, and recently I can no use the magical ward I generate to prevent damage to my allies. I'm really enjoying this self buffing melee wizard.

[Dalebert]

And the reaction ones (shield, absorb element) require a free hand or warcaster.


You could just drop something in a pinch. Probably worth it for a fireball but maybe not to Shield if it's something you plan to do a lot. You run the risk something else will pick it up before your turn.


You can go half elf variance from scag were you can get elf weapon training so you can grab long swords. or just grab feat weapon master.grab the feat medium armor master with a 16 dex for +3 bumping half Plat to 18 ac and you don't have disadvantage on stealth checks

Medium armor limits you to +2 from dex.

[Zman]

This is my play style. Fighter/Sorcerer is what I am loving.

Either Fighter 2/Sorcerer 18, Eldritch Knight 4/Sorcerer 16, or Eldritch Knight 6/Sorcerer 14, or Eldritch Knight 8/Sorcerer 16 can all work depending on how you want to build it and how man ASI's you want/need.

Fighter 2 gives you Action Surge, Heavy Armor if you want it, Martial Weapon Profs, and a bonus action heal. Sorcerer gives you unarmored AC 13+Dex if you want to forgo armor. With quickened and Twinned Metamagic and Booming Blade you deal solid damage.

Starting at level Fighter1/Sorc 3 you have access to Quickened Blurr, Mirror Image, Shield, Twinned Booming Blade, Quickened Booming Blade, etc.

You also can go Paladin if that fits for what you want, personally Paladin never really fits the playstyle I'm after and makes you choose between Con Prof and Heavy Armor.

[Sir cryosin]

You could just drop something in a pinch. Probably worth it for a fireball but maybe not to Shield if it's something you plan to do a lot. You run the risk something else will pick it up before your turn.



Medium armor limits you to +2 from dex.

Not with the feat medium armor master it let's you add +3 instead of +2 on all medium armor

[JNAProductions]

Eldritch Knight 8/Sorcerer 16

Um... Not sure that build quite works. :P

[Sir cryosin]

A favored soul sorcerer with haste and quicker a green flame blade or booming blade. As round 2 in combat you are getting 4 weapon attacks if you picked up Medium armor master feat with a shield and rapier your ac is 22. So start with the scag half elf variant pick drow weapon training to get a rapier proficiency. Then at lv4 grad the feat war caster. Yous can so some sweet damage casting booming blade or green flame blade for opportunity attacks. Then at 8lv pick the feat medium armor master to get rid of disadvantage on stealth checks an +1 to your AC. Then if you want to next ASI grad the shield master feat

[SharkForce]

you could make a favoured soul like that. you'd probably be better off just buffing a paladin or barbarian or especially a rogue with haste and casting other spells (not that i'm a huge fan of haste in general, but it's better used on someone who has riders on their attacks if you are going to use it at all).

but you could be reasonably effective in combat, yes. 5e does not require you to be insanely well optimized, so you can generally afford to be a bit less effective than you otherwise would be.

on the other hand, you could have also just made a fighter in the first place if attacking things with weapons was your goal.

[Sir cryosin]

you could make a favoured soul like that. you'd probably be better off just buffing a paladin or barbarian or especially a rogue with haste and casting other spells (not that i'm a huge fan of haste in general, but it's better used on someone who has riders on their attacks if you are going to use it at all).

but you could be reasonably effective in combat, yes. 5e does not require you to be insanely well optimized, so you can generally afford to be a bit less effective than you otherwise would be.

on the other hand, you could have also just made a fighter in the first place if attacking things with weapons was your goal.
Well he's looking for a self buffin malee caster. And haste is a nice spell +2 to ac and extra attack is nice. Yes after the spell end u get hit with a one round cool down but u can prepare be for that. Haste is one of my favorite spells

[Corran]

A favored soul sorcerer with haste and quicker a green flame blade or booming blade. As round 2 in combat you are getting 4 weapon attacks if you picked up Medium armor master feat with a shield and rapier your ac is 22. So start with the scag half elf variant pick drow weapon training to get a rapier proficiency. Then at lv4 grad the feat war caster. Yous can so some sweet damage casting booming blade or green flame blade for opportunity attacks. Then at 8lv pick the feat medium armor master to get rid of disadvantage on stealth checks an +1 to your AC. Then if you want to next ASI grad the shield master feat
Quickening a cantrip costs 2 sp and it will burn your sorcery points very fast, it cannot be a reliable strategy (unless you have 1 fight per adventuring day), you should only do it when you are in a bad situation and you need all the damage you can get.
Haste has its own problems, especially if the one who casts it is in melee. The only saving grace is that the sorcery can twin it, so if you have two allies (or you and one ally) that have a mighty at will weapon attack (so we are looking for GWM and SS), then it might be worth the risk to cast it. Just mirror image yourself afterwards (or blink) and try to stay relatively safe (if yu want to use haste on a regular basis, and you are in melee often, then taking mobile feat or a rogue 2 dip can be beneficial).
Also, if you ae going for a strategy that will allow you 3 weapon attacks per round (2 from FS and 1 from haste), then you need either GWM or SS. Otherwise, just stick with cantrips (GFB or BB) and try to key off their secondary effect as often as possible.
MAM starts to lose its value once you start pumping your dex. It translates to a +2 AC when you first get it, and this benefit is reduced by 1 every time you pump your dex. Personaly I dont think it is worth the investment, but since you got into all that trouble to take 2 feats (warcaster and MAM) that raise your AC by 4 (+2 from shield, and another +2 from MAM), then I think using blur is one of your best bets, especially if you dont have allies with GWM and/or SS and since you are in melee.

[Sir cryosin]

Quickening a cantrip costs 2 sp and it will burn your sorcery points very fast, it cannot be a reliable strategy (unless you have 1 fight per adventuring day), you should only do it when you are in a bad situation and you need all the damage you can get.
Haste has its own problems, especially if the one who casts it is in melee. The only saving grace is that the sorcery can twin it, so if you have two allies (or you and one ally) that have a mighty at will weapon attack (so we are looking for GWM and SS), then it might be worth the risk to cast it. Just mirror image yourself afterwards (or blink) and try to stay relatively safe (if yu want to use haste on a regular basis, and you are in melee often, then taking mobile feat or a rogue 2 dip can be beneficial).
Also, if you ae going for a strategy that will allow you 3 weapon attacks per round (2 from FS and 1 from haste), then you need either GWM or SS. Otherwise, just stick with cantrips (GFB or BB) and try to key off their secondary effect as often as possible.
MAM starts to lose its value once you start pumping your dex. It translates to a +2 AC when you first get it, and this benefit is reduced by 1 every time you pump your dex. Personaly I dont think it is worth the investment, but since you got into all that trouble to take 2 feats (warcaster and MAM) that raise your AC by 4 (+2 from shield, and another +2 from MAM), then I think using blur is one of your best bets, especially if you dont have allies with GWM and/or SS and since you are in melee.
I would take a case over bring anything that wasn't true to your AC and that extra weapon attack is a lot better because he loves you. You can attack with your weapon and cats smell at the same time why blink it may not have the drawback as hey stud what it's only having monsters attack you at disadvantage if you have a low AC that disadvantage good be good but then again there poly hitting you more often with that that disadvantage then with a higher AC and mirror image is not a concentration it just has a one minute duration so you compare that with either one of them and still be able to still have a little higher chance of a less chance of getting hit and as a sorcerer you have proficiency in concentration and text and like I said taking warcaster will give you a vantage means most of time you're not going to lose your concentration on your spell and yes everybody knows you can get more damage output with a two hander then you will a sword and bored but hey I prefer the AC over an extra bit of damage people just don't like hate and hate and hate because they don't like that draw back on it I mean I mean if we didn't have a drawback and then it would be extremely powerful spell and as a favored Soul sorcerer you don't have proficiency with Marshall weapons or any heavy armor so grabbing that medium armor master feet and going adex melee build as a lot better than trying to pick up a to hand and swing it around yes he could probably dip one level into fighter or take a fee to give him heavy armor and then pick up and then grabbed another sheet and pick up weapons but that's a lot more investment then he would with medium armor and medium armor master

[Sir cryosin]

PS sorry but I am talking on my phone instead of typing so there's no punctuation and crap like that you can also swap out medium armor master for the do list feet which in turn will which will raise your AC as well thinking about it that might actually be a better option

[Dalebert]

I would take a case over bring anything that wasn't true to your AC and that extra weapon attack is a lot better because he loves you. You can attack with your weapon and cats smell at the same time why blink it may not have the drawback as hey stud

I sincerely worried for a moment that I was having a stroke.

[Sir cryosin]

I sincerely worried for a moment that I was having a stroke.

Wow lol I hate auto correct

[RickAllison]

It made my soul die a little... It will come back as a Shadow Sorcerer with Lysandra, the Devil Dog, to exact its unholy vengeance upon the software known as "Auto-Correct".

[Kane0]

Abjuration Wizards (Temp HP buffer)
Bladesinger Wizards (Extra Attack + AC boost + regular casting)
Favored Soul Sorcerers (Armor + Extra attack + metamagic)
Fiend Warlocks (Temp HP aplenty)
EKs (Shield + Mirror Image + Haste)
Clerics (Armor + Guardian Spirits)
Valor Bards (Extra attack + Steal Spells)

You're pretty much looking at all the standard gish options, minus paladin. Even then the pally can choose buff options instead of smites, so really anything works as long as you have a reason to be in melee (Armor, Extra attack, short range or personal spells, etc)

[djreynolds]

We got to roll, I got two 14's and a 15. But I had already chosen mountain dwarf, so I made him a wizard and my buddy made a cleric of LIGHT. So he would be the wizard in a sense to my cleric.

It didn't workout.

A 15 in intelligence sucks, but my strength and con were 16s and I had medium armor from mountain dwarf. So I went into combat with a war hammer (my arcane focus) and just casted mirror image, and pro from evil or blur, and basically spammed the shield spell and of course missed with my melee attacks.

But my arcane ward ate up a lot of damage and attacks from the barbarian in melee and he kicked butt, and since mirror image is not concentration even if I got hit and lost concentration I only needed a round to recast another concentration spell.

Arcane ward is awesome, but a mountain dwarf sorcerer could even be more effective, con proficiency and the ability to twin concentration spells such as blur, or haste, or protection stuff.

[joaber]

if you'll only use spells to buff, your spellcasting ability doesn't matters. As a wizard, you can't get a extra attack since you're not a bladesinger elf, so multiclass will be almost necessary.

[Vogonjeltz]

I was wondering if casting classes in 5e can find it worthwhile to use their spell slots to self-buff and engage in melee combat? Obviously such a thing wouldn't always be optimal under every circumstance, and for the most part a caster would stay in the back - but I really like the character concept of a caster that can move to the front in a pinch.

I've heard things about the Valor Bard and the Bladesinger, but is there sufficient incentive for them actually use their spell slot(s) buffing themselves and then engaging in combat, rather than just chucking a fireball or two in the area? How much does a Bladesinger, for example, lose out when they decide to engage in melee rather than casting from the back?

Sorry for the loaded questions, but I've got my first IRL 5e game coming up and I really want to fulfill this character concept despite not having much experience with the game.

Most spellcasters would not benefit from self-buffing and trying to engage in melee because they (by default) are unlikely to pass the concentration checks from taking damage.

[Zman]

Most spellcasters would not benefit from self-buffing and trying to engage in melee because they (by default) are unlikely to pass the concentration checks from taking damage.

Sorcerers do have proficiency in con. Warcaster is another option as well. Fighter Multiclass can start with Con save profs.

[Corran]

Most spellcasters would not benefit from self-buffing and trying to engage in melee because they (by default) are unlikely to pass the concentration checks from taking damage.
Adding to what Zman said, they could always be mobile (or dip rogue 2), just for keeping clear of danger. Afterall, BB + mobility is a very valid and common option.

[djreynolds]

if you'll only use spells to buff, your spellcasting ability doesn't matters. As a wizard, you can't get a extra attack since you're not a bladesinger elf, so multiclass will be almost necessary.

First, bladesinger didn't exist yet.

Second, my wizard is pretty potent, and its not so much my attack as it is soaking up attacks and damage.

Third, You can only buff up so much, tonight I had up pro form evil, fireshield, and mirror image and I held up a weaker group of mooks while the cleric and paladin handled the demon business.

Bladesinger is a great class, but like all wizards you lack radiant damage sources. But you can tank as a wizard.

What I do like about bladesinger is the advantage on acrobatics checks, shoving a wizard or grappling him can be an effective means of stopping them, a good acrobatics check may allow you to get free from a grapple.

And just ask out rogue, I love to drop AoEs. "Why do I need sculpt spell, when you have evasion and dex save proficiency?"

[joaber]

First, bladesinger didn't exist yet.

Second, my wizard is pretty potent, and its not so much my attack as it is soaking up attacks and damage.

Third, You can only buff up so much, tonight I had up pro form evil, fireshield, and mirror image and I held up a weaker group of mooks while the cleric and paladin handled the demon business.

Bladesinger is a great class, but like all wizards you lack radiant damage sources. But you can tank as a wizard.

What I do like about bladesinger is the advantage on acrobatics checks, shoving a wizard or grappling him can be an effective means of stopping them, a good acrobatics check may allow you to get free from a grapple.

And just ask out rogue, I love to drop AoEs. "Why do I need sculpt spell, when you have evasion and dex save proficiency?"

I didn't said nothing about your PC, I'm talking with OP. But OP want to be a melee caster. If he want to be really good in melee, he need extra attack and, as a wizard, only bladesinger can do it. So, if he want to be a wizard, his spellcaster ability isn't that great and want to be melee fighter, the best option is multiclass in a martial class.

[djreynolds]

I didn't said nothing about your PC, I'm talking with OP. But OP want to be a melee caster. If he want to be really good in melee, he need extra attack and, as a wizard, only bladesinger can do it. So, if he want to be a wizard, his spellcaster ability isn't that great and want to be melee fighter, the best option is multiclass in a martial class.

I didn't mean a negative, my apologies.

Too true, this guy needs to decide to be either a EK or BS. You are 100% correct. If I had a do over, I would take EK. Heavy armor, con saves, grab war caster and then go wizard. I prefer 3EK/15abjurer, but 5EK/15 wizard is just fine.

But I love the bladesinger, its cool and you can go 20 levels in it.

[joaber]

I didn't mean a negative, my apologies.

Too true, this guy needs to decide to be either a EK or BS. You are 100% correct. If I had a do over, I would take EK. Heavy armor, con saves, grab war caster and then go wizard. I prefer 3EK/15abjurer, but 5EK/15 wizard is just fine.

But I love the bladesinger, its cool and you can go 20 levels in it.

sorry for the rude reply too.

The problem is he need to reach lvl 5 as fighter to get the extra attack, but he'll lose the 9th lvl spell. Agree that abjurer is the best wizard option, but I would go for BM as fighter. If he go for 5 EK/15Wiz, he'll be a 16th lvl spellcaster, those 5 EK lvl don't add not even one spellslot in his character. As BM, he'll get 4 superiority dices per short rest.

[Vogonjeltz]

Sorcerers do have proficiency in con. Warcaster is another option as well. Fighter Multiclass can start with Con save profs.

I know, that's why I said: Most spellcasters...; The OP referred to valor bards and bladesingers.
Warcaster requires a feat (again, most only get 5 ASI and they have at least 3 stat priorities even assuming they don't want to multiclass which requires specific stat minimums)
Starting as a Fighter means a delayed spell progression.

You might as well just go Eldritch Knight if you're already sinking levels into Fighter, which is supremely better suited for melee, to become a character who can actually take hits.


Adding to what Zman said, they could always be mobile (or dip rogue 2), just for keeping clear of danger. Afterall, BB + mobility is a very valid and common option.

Mobile doesn't guard against ranged attacks.