Keen Mind, Wizards Best Friend?

[Azreal]

I picked up Keen Mind on my Wizard and I realized something that works by RAW but most likely not by RAI, my wizard can pop into a magic shop and look over scrolls or spellbooks and accurately remember them to copy them down into his own spellbook.

Now am I wrong about this or is this just an oversight by Devs?

[ImSAMazing]

I picked up Keen Mind on my Wizard and I realized something that works by RAW but most likely not by RAI, my wizard can pop into a magic shop and look over scrolls or spellbooks and accurately remember them to copy them down into his own spellbook.

Now am I wrong about this or is this just an oversight by Devs?

This would certainly raise the power of the Keen Mind feat. By RAW, you remember everything what was on the scroll/spellbook page, and you could copy the image to another piece of spellbook paper. You should still copy it to your own 'magic language', which costs 50 gp and 2 hours / spell level.
I'd rule yes, you can.

[Tanarii]

I picked up Keen Mind on my Wizard and I realized something that works by RAW but most likely not by RAI, my wizard can pop into a magic shop and look over scrolls or spellbooks and accurately remember them to copy them down into his own spellbook.

Now am I wrong about this or is this just an oversight by Devs?No. You're assuming 'magic shop' selling scrolls and spell books exist.

[ImSAMazing]

No. You're assuming 'magic shop' selling scrolls and spell books exist.

Which is logical in a big city. Especially in Faerûn, with cities like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate.

[Tanarii]

Which is logical in a big city. Especially in Faerûn, with cities like Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate.But it's not a default assumption in 5e. Logical or not. So it's not something the Devs overlooked thinking about.

If you don't run under the default assumptions, you'll need to modify a few things if they break.

[ImSAMazing]

But it's not a default assumption in 5e. Logical or not. So it's not something the Devs overlooked thinking about.

If you don't run under the default assumptions, you'll need to modify a few things if they break.

Not true. Since the devs made the SCAG, which has an entry about the great library of Candlekeep, even INCLUDING the base price of seeing/copying spells.

[PoeticDwarf]

ImSAMazing is right here.

Even then. In most shops you also can't read spell books for free. It is more like. This is a fireball scroll but you can't see it till you buy it (not that way but I can't really explain it in English, although in my head it sounds logical)

[Mara]

Obviously Keen Mind exist to let you use illusion magic :P

[ImSAMazing]

Obviously Keen Mind exist to let you use illusion magic :P

That's a reference to the "illusions are arbititarly nerved by the DM" thread isn't it ;)

[Azreal]

My wizard is in the Cult of the Dragon Queen adventure path so within Faerun world which does have magic shops.

I see your point about how the typical 5e setting doesn't have magic shops as a norm however.

[JackPhoenix]

Not true. Since the devs made the SCAG, which has an entry about the great library of Candlekeep, even INCLUDING the base price of seeing/copying spells.

SCAG was made: 1. more then a year after PHB with its Keen Mind, 2. mostly by Green Ronin, not WotC.

So, while the devs made SCAG, it was a different set o devs and they couldn't have planned the PHB feat with it in mind.

[Shaofoo]

In real life books are shrink wrapped to prevent people from looking over the contents before buying them.

It isn't such a huge leap in logic to think that scrolls are sealed up to prevent anyone from just taking a peek at them.

Basically it is an oversight if the shop doesn't follow even basic precautions to prevent stuff like that from happening; it'd be like saying if you go into a magic weapon shop and you can just grab the nearest magic item and bolt out the door then that is an oversight that lets you get free magic items.

[Dalebert]

You should be able to copy spells from books that way. Scrolls get deleted by the act of copying, so you'd have to figure out the mechanics of that. Presumably it would get deleted as you were reading it and committing it to memory. As was said, the way I'd handle this as a shopkeeper, if there are such things in the world, I would let people see something until we'd already agreed to a price. I picture wizards being extremely protective of their spells. If they agreed to spell X but not to spell Y based on the terms, they'd be right there with you listening for page turns at the very least. They may set up an alarm spell if you turned the pages past certain points just in case their attention was elsewhere for a moment.

[Azreal]

Actually how would that work with scrolls and why do they get deleted from being copied?

[Dalebert]

Actually how would that work with scrolls and why do they get deleted from being copied?

When the "why" is not explained, it's reasonable to assume it was a balance decision. They either want you to be able to cast the spell without using a slot or copy it to your repertoire but not both. It's then largely up to us to figure out the fluff of that.

[Azreal]

See the way I picture the fluff is that you cast the spell from the scroll and carefully record the results but you did burn up the magic in the scroll.

How that would work with the Keen Mind trick I'm not sure.

[Naanomi]

If possible (I'd guess not, I think copying spells is more than just writing) then no magic shop will ever let anyone handle scrolls before purchase

[Dalebert]

If this works, it might actually be really useful in AL games where you often have access to a PC or NPC spellbook for just that session but can only copy what you have the money and downtime for at that time. Money is usually the limiting factor. This would allow you a month of leeway.

[Tanarii]

Not true. Since the devs made the SCAG, which has an entry about the great library of Candlekeep, even INCLUDING the base price of seeing/copying spells.


SCAG was made: 1. more then a year after PHB with its Keen Mind, 2. mostly by Green Ronin, not WotC.

So, while the devs made SCAG, it was a different set o devs and they couldn't have planned the PHB feat with it in mind.

Yup. Like I said, if you use non-default assumptions from the devs, it may break some things, and you'll have to make a few adjustments. That includes using sourcebooks not made by the devs.

I'm kinda yanking chains a bit here though. ;) IMO the Wizards spellbook feature creates quite a lot of problems throughout the game. It always has. And that's on the devs wanting to find a way to fit a sacred cow into the game.

[dickerson76]

"Accurately recall" is not the same thing as "reproduce without error". If you read a kids' book, you can accurately recall the story an hour later - but that doesn't mean you can recite it word for word. Part of reading/copying a scroll is deciphering the code. If you don't have EXACT duplicate of the scroll, you may be missing key clues in the notation that would later prevent you from deciphering the code. Something you may overlook as an ink smudge on first glance, may in fact be subtle notation.

Keep in mind that in order to read and understand it well enough to copy it to your spellbook, you must first understand it well enough to cast it. I don't imagine any shopkeeper is going to let someone study a fireball (or any other) spell enough in the shop to cast it right there.

tl;dr: Keen Mind does not give you a photographic memory to reproduce everything you saw in exact detail (which would be required to reproduce a scroll).

[SharkForce]

"Accurately recall" is not the same thing as "reproduce without error". If you read a kids' book, you can accurately recall the story an hour later - but that doesn't mean you can recite it word for word. Part of reading/copying a scroll is deciphering the code. If you don't have EXACT duplicate of the scroll, you may be missing key clues in the notation that would later prevent you from deciphering the code. Something you may overlook as an ink smudge on first glance, may in fact be subtle notation.

Keep in mind that in order to read and understand it well enough to copy it to your spellbook, you must first understand it well enough to cast it. I don't imagine any shopkeeper is going to let someone study a fireball (or any other) spell enough in the shop to cast it right there.

tl;dr: Keen Mind does not give you a photographic memory to reproduce everything you saw in exact detail (which would be required to reproduce a scroll).

not sure what you think "uncanny precision" means, because it's basically saying your powers of recall border on the supernatural. and since it specifically says you can remember *details* with uncanny precision, i'm going to have to say that actually, it pretty much *is* photographic memory.

[Mara]

not sure what you think "uncanny precision" means, because it's basically saying your powers of recall border on the supernatural. and since it specifically says you can remember *details* with uncanny precision, i'm going to have to say that actually, it pretty much *is* photographic memory.

I'm baffled that someone would consider photographic memory just BEYOND the power scope of a FEAT in 5e.

EDIT: It takes time and money to copy the spell into the spellbook to cast it because the particulars of the spell change with each caster. Magic is not a science. To learn a spell is to grasp something that is irrational. The way your character understands is necessarily different than another caster even if the effect is the same.

EDIT: Now you could say that the scroll must be present for the same reason a wizard with keen mind still needs a spell book to cast ritual spells or re-prepare spells. The magic of the writing may be something you need to be exposed to.

[Cybren]

I'm not sure what value a feat that gives you "kinda good memory" is. I think it's pretty evident the whole point of the fear IS photographic memory, but it's not particularly unbalanced to let wizards use it to copy spells: they still have to pay for the act of writing it in their book, and there's no guarantee the wizard will have access of something to copy, and that feat could have been more prepared spells, a higher save DC, and a better attack roll with spells

[Dalebert]

It's already a feat that's benefit is already very context-dependent. Kinda remembering things well is just a matter of high intelligence. Seems to me that Keen Mind is meant to represent truly photographic memory, like Kyle XY who can draw anything he's seen with near perfection. The details needed to practice and copy down a spell they've seen seems like it should be fairly straight-forward. It's mostly a matter of convenience. They still have to find the spells like any other wizard. It seems like it would primarily affect AL play where there are specific restrictions on how copying works and when and where you can do it.

[JackPhoenix]

In real life books are shrink wrapped to prevent people from looking over the contents before buying them.

It isn't such a huge leap in logic to think that scrolls are sealed up to prevent anyone from just taking a peek at them.

Basically it is an oversight if the shop doesn't follow even basic precautions to prevent stuff like that from happening; it'd be like saying if you go into a magic weapon shop and you can just grab the nearest magic item and bolt out the door then that is an oversight that lets you get free magic items.

Even worse...giving the wizard a scroll to read is like giving a customer in a gun store a loaded gun to check out...him remembering what was on it is the least of your problems...


Yup. Like I said, if you use non-default assumptions from the devs, it may break some things, and you'll have to make a few adjustments. That includes using sourcebooks not made by the devs.

I'm kinda yanking chains a bit here though. ;) IMO the Wizards spellbook feature creates quite a lot of problems throughout the game. It always has. And that's on the devs wanting to find a way to fit a sacred cow into the game.

That was one of the problems with 3.5e too...even if you don't count the blatantly broken and overpowered stuff, the devs just paid no attention to existing materials. Thing that was fine on its own turned out to be stupidly powerful when combined with stuff from a different book. (Pun Pun comes to mind...) WotC is trying to avoid that this time, which is why we're getting way less splatbooks and why some rules are so awkvardly worded (unarmed strike, Martial Arts and rogue interaction was an explicid example mentioned by JC or MM). And we STILL got stuff like Wish + Simulacrum shennanigans...

[alexandraerin]

I have seen so many examples/variations on this argument before and my response is always the same: nope.

Scrolls are explicitly not just instructions that you can follow for casting the spell. Magical energy is bound up in the scroll and is released by the act of reading it, which presumably would be why you use up a scroll even in the course of just copying it. Whether you even can read it without activating it is not explicit in the text (in previous editions you could not), but having a photographic memory or even (in modern campaigns) a photograph or photocopy of the words on the scroll isn't going to let you do anything more than make a non-magical copy of what that scroll looked like. There's nothing there to invoke, no energy to release, which means you have no chance to study the actual spell itself in order to master it and write it down in your own notation.

There's less explicit of an argument that a spell book's writing is mystically potent, but I like the flavor that it is, and it explains the requirement that the book be present during preparation (e.g., why wizards with Keen Mind can't prepare spells without a book), and why the cost of copying even a spell you know is so high (magic ink!) The idea that magic can be reduced to a set of instructions that can be represented in two dimensions with ink and pen is just appalling to me. Adding a dimension of magic to the recording of spells not only prevents this and all the other, even cheesier Keen Mind shenanigans, it explains why no one has ever created a standardized notation.

[eastmabl]

I'm not sure what value a feat that gives you "kinda good memory" is. I think it's pretty evident the whole point of the fear IS photographic memory, but it's not particularly unbalanced to let wizards use it to copy spells: they still have to pay for the act of writing it in their book, and there's no guarantee the wizard will have access of something to copy, and that feat could have been more prepared spells, a higher save DC, and a better attack roll with spells

This. Feats are supposed to be good; let the wizard do the cool thing that he's blown an ASI to get.

As for "walk into Candlekeep, read some books and scribe them once you get out," one does not just walk into Candlekeep. Per Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast (and also the Wikipedia entry on Candlekeep):

"To gain entry to the halls of wisdom, a visitor must gift the library collection with a new tome of immense value."

If I've got a character who (1) spent a feat on Keen Mind and (2) explored and found a tome of immense value, I'm going to reward her by letting her do all kinds of things - least of which is pay the regular price to scribe spells into her spell book after the fact.

[Dalebert]

... it explains ... why the cost of copying even a spell you know is so high (magic ink!)

Actually, most of the cost is in costs of experimenting and figuring out how to cast the spell yourself--the translation to your personal style of magic. That's why you can copy a spell you've already figured out for 20% of the cost.

I think of the spell book as more of a specialized focus item. You need a focus item (or components) to cast a spell you've prepared. You need the spell book to prepare those spells. But it doesn't break the game to let a wizard with Keen Mind copy spells they've seen.

1) They still need access to the spells
2) They still need to spend the time and money

The focus item is not magical but it represents special engineering to facilitate the act of spell preparation. I think people have it stuck in their heads that wizards are memorizing their spells. They're not. They're preparing them. There's the implication that a wizard needs to do some setup that takes some time to get a spell ready for casting spontaneously and can only have so many prepared. He needs an expensive spellbook for that process just as a he needs a focus for casting.

And for that matter, it seems like a reasonable perk to let a wizard with Keen Mind recreate a lost spellbook if they do so within a month of losing it. They still need the book (like a focus) to prepare spells but they know all the details needed to recreate it.

Picture it like this. Maybe they're chanting and tracing special runes in the book or touching certain elemental symbols in sequence during the preparation process and this fulfills 95% of the time needed to cast the spell so they can complete it with one action. That's fluff that satisfies their need to actually have a book to prepare regardless of Keen Mind.

[Temperjoke]

Isn't it mentioned that part of the time and cost to copying a spell from another spell book is the time spent deciphering the author's original work, then translating that into your own work? I'd almost argue that that might not be something you could do just from looking at it. I mean, it's not like a spellbook you find is a printed book, it's going to be hand-written, and I've seen some bad handwriting in my day. All you might get out of looking at it with Keen Mind is that the page looked like a bunch of squiggles and splotches that might be important, or might be the result of a quill that broke. If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to get a spell out of it just from that look.

On the other hand, if we're talking about reproducing your own spellbook, which you are intimately familiar with, then sure, I could see Keen Mind being used to great effect to reproduce it.

[Quintessence]

Isn't it mentioned that part of the time and cost to copying a spell from another spell book is the time spent deciphering the author's original work, then translating that into your own work? I'd almost argue that that might not be something you could do just from looking at it. I mean, it's not like a spellbook you find is a printed book, it's going to be hand-written, and I've seen some bad handwriting in my day. All you might get out of looking at it with Keen Mind is that the page looked like a bunch of squiggles and splotches that might be important, or might be the result of a quill that broke. If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to get a spell out of it just from that look.

On the other hand, if we're talking about reproducing your own spellbook, which you are intimately familiar with, then sure, I could see Keen Mind being used to great effect to reproduce it.

What if for some reason you had 2 levels of warlock and the Eyes of the Runekeeper?

[Temperjoke]

What if for some reason you had 2 levels of warlock and the Eyes of the Runekeeper?

Well, you might be able to read it, but not necessarily understand it. Speaking from personal experience, I use all kinds of shorthand notes when I'm making lists or taking notes for myself that would confuse someone else trying to duplicate my notes. I understand this might not be RAW, but my opinion is that to be able to properly record it in your book and have it work, you have to understand it.

Not to mention, let's say your DM allows you to use Keen Mind in this manner, are you sure you were able to see all the relevant pages? For a balance, I would add in a chance of spell failure, perhaps catastrophically, if you regular use this method to copy spells from other people's books.

[Naanomi]

I would be inclined to allow a tome-lock to poach rituals with the feat since that doesn't consume the scroll

[Theodoxus]

Would you allow a Wizard with Keen Mind to create an illusory copy of his spellbook from memory with Minor Illusion to memorize different spells?

Could an overly cautious Wizard stash his hardcopy and use MI in conjunction with KM to study from and swap out spells on a daily basis? If yes, does looking at his MI copy count as 'seeing' it, so he could keep doing so in perpetuity?

Granted, this trick works best when you're not gaining a level every day or two... you'll be adding to you hardcopy quite often until what, 6th or 7th level? (Provided you're not stumbling onto spellbooks all the time...) But say, by 10th or 11th level, you have a secluded Tower of Power but still want to adventure... (and not burn resources on Leo's Secret Chest - for whatever reason).

Is this ok by RAW/RAI?

[Temperjoke]

Would you allow a Wizard with Keen Mind to create an illusory copy of his spellbook from memory with Minor Illusion to memorize different spells?

Could an overly cautious Wizard stash his hardcopy and use MI in conjunction with KM to study from and swap out spells on a daily basis? If yes, does looking at his MI copy count as 'seeing' it, so he could keep doing so in perpetuity?

Granted, this trick works best when you're not gaining a level every day or two... you'll be adding to you hardcopy quite often until what, 6th or 7th level? (Provided you're not stumbling onto spellbooks all the time...) But say, by 10th or 11th level, you have a secluded Tower of Power but still want to adventure... (and not burn resources on Leo's Secret Chest - for whatever reason).

Is this ok by RAW/RAI?

Well, I'd say that no, you couldn't create an illusion copy of the spellbook, at least, not one you can use. You would need to be able to interact with the spellbook in order to prepare your spells from it, which means turning pages and such, and you can't interact with Minor Illusions. That's my opinion anyways.

[Dalebert]

Would you allow a Wizard with Keen Mind to create an illusory copy of his spellbook from memory with Minor Illusion to memorize different spells?

My post was too long. I blame myself that you didn't read it.

Wizards don't memorize spells. This is 5e; not 1e or 2e. They prepare them. Think of the book as a focus item needed for that preparation. Maybe they have to trace runes while chanting or touch symbols in a certain order while saying certain phrases to "pre-cast" so they can then fire off the spell in 1 action later.

If they were memorizing spells, then a wizard with Keen Mind would always have all his spells prepared.

[JoeJ]

ImSAMazing is right here.

Even then. In most shops you also can't read spell books for free. It is more like. This is a fireball scroll but you can't see it till you buy it (not that way but I can't really explain it in English, although in my head it sounds logical)

Also, even a magic shop probably won't have very many scrolls in stock. Fireball, for example, with a rarity of Uncommon, requires 500 gp in materials and 20 days of work to create. That's a huge investment to have just sitting on a shelf in hopes that someday an adventurer will wander in wanting to buy it. Mostly they'll scribe scrolls and make potions to order (probably requiring at least partial payment in advance).

[ad_hoc]

My wizard is in the Cult of the Dragon Queen adventure path so within Faerun world which does have magic shops.

I see your point about how the typical 5e setting doesn't have magic shops as a norm however.

I ran that adventure and I don't recall there being any magic shops.

[Theodoxus]

My post was too long. I blame myself that you didn't read it.

Wizards don't memorize spells. This is 5e; not 1e or 2e. They prepare them. Think of the book as a focus item needed for that preparation. Maybe they have to trace runes while chanting or touch symbols in a certain order while saying certain phrases to "pre-cast" so they can then fire off the spell in 1 action later.

If they were memorizing spells, then a wizard with Keen Mind would always have all his spells prepared.

/Facepalm

I know I should know by now, that you all are a literal crowd - so when someone uses a term from a previous edition (Memorize here, Free Action in another post) of course you're gonna jump all over that instead of the intent.

Yes, I know they don't memorize spells the same as in previous editions. They 'prepare' them, which, is actually just another word for memorize... but I digress.

Then again, Focus is defined in the rules, so to be literal back at you, no, it isn't a Focus, otherwise their spells would require having the spellbook on hand when you're casting them, not just preparing them for the day.

Everything else you mentioned is interpretation of fluff. So, I'm ok with my original interpretation - fluff wise, at least for an Illusionist, who can interact with Minor Illusion, you can conjure (oh god, here's another word) an image of your spellbook, flip to the pertinent illusory page and prepare the spell detailed there. It's thematic and fun. Oh, and requires a feat to pull off.

[Azreal]

I ran that adventure and I don't recall there being any magic shops.

Well DMs are cool and it makes sense in the setting that in cities you may find a Magic Shop. :)

[Dalebert]

Everything else you mentioned is interpretation of fluff. So, I'm ok with my original interpretation - fluff wise, at least for an Illusionist, who can interact with Minor Illusion, you can conjure (oh god, here's another word) an image of your spellbook, flip to the pertinent illusory page and prepare the spell detailed there. It's thematic and fun. Oh, and requires a feat to pull off.

Conceded--my whole post was fluff of the rules. The point is you need a book per the rules so I brainstormed some fluff to explain and make sense of why you need an actual physical book to prepare spells. I didn't pull it completely out of my behind though. If just illusory words on illusory paper were sufficient, then so would regular words on regular paper and it wouldn't cost 10gp per level of each spell + 50gp for the special book to have a functional spellbook. The comparison to a spell focus was merely an analogy. You need a specially prepared material focus to cast spells and you need a specially prepared book to prepare them.

By the same reason, if you were actually memorizing spells (you're not; you're preparing them) then why would you forget them? This used to be a magical effect. Casting the spell burned and purged it from your memory. Also, if you had Keen Mind, then why would you not be able to have all your spells memorized? If you have the book memorized well enough to reproduce it, then you have all your spells memorized already. It would make no sense to memorize them from your... memory of your book.

The word "memorize" with regard to spells is dead to this edition, and good riddance. It needs to be burned with fire!

[ad_hoc]

Well DMs are cool and it makes sense in the setting that in cities you may find a Magic Shop. :)

So if there are no magic shops then the DM is not cool?

Here is the thing, the typical 5e setting is Faerun. It is the default setting of 5e.

Magic shops are not assumed in 5e and feats are also optional.

The devs supply optional rules. If a group puts them together in ways which disrupt their games it is not their fault.

[Temperjoke]

So if there are no magic shops then the DM is not cool?

Here is the thing, the typical 5e setting is Faerun. It is the default setting of 5e.

Magic shops are not assumed in 5e and feats are also optional.

The devs supply optional rules. If a group puts them together in ways which disrupt their games it is not their fault.

Discussion is starting to get off track, and has been beaten to death in other threads.

[Mara]

Now that I think about it... Having a cost-free mental spell book is still a little lackluster for a feat.

[Dalebert]

Now that I think about it... Having a cost-free mental spell book is still a little lackluster for a feat.

If that's all it did, sure. In theory, Keen Mind is useful for a lot of other things and it adds to Int or Wis. In actual pratice, yeah. It's a lackluster feat.

I actually took it in a game where the DM LOVED to cause us to get lost. Always knowing North was actually a big deal in that game.

[JackPhoenix]

I don't know about 1e or 2e, but in 3.5, when you prepared spells, you weren't really memorizing them...you actually casted them, except one final trigger quick enough to use in combat. That's why they disappeared from your memory. Now, 5e works differently...you can use prepared spells as long as you have slots for it.

As for the Faerun and magic shops... FR had ton of magic shops in 3.5, true, but then the Spellplague happened and all that accumulated magic disappeared (together with the wizards dying or going crazy or what not. After Spellplague, magic worked differently and the casters learned new spells, made new items. Then the Sundering came and all that 4e crap disappeared. Most of the old items are gone, and new items are harder to make then ever...so, yes, the lack of magic shops can be explained.

[Tanarii]

Now that I think about it... Having a cost-free mental spell book is still a little lackluster for a feat.The feat is supposed to be a replacement for +1 Int. as such it gives some aspects of things that would be Int checks automatically without a check, and some things that may not even be possible with a check.

Accurate recall for anything seen or heard in the last month without an Int check is would be well worth +1 Int in many campaigns I've been in over the decades. (Obviously I'm not just talking about 5e here.)

[Azreal]

So if there are no magic shops then the DM is not cool?

Here is the thing, the typical 5e setting is Faerun. It is the default setting of 5e.

Magic shops are not assumed in 5e and feats are also optional.

The devs supply optional rules. If a group puts them together in ways which disrupt their games it is not their fault.

I see how I've worded it badly and I'll redo my sentence towards my intentions.

My DM is running it in older Faerun where magic shops were more common. A bigger city is going to have some minor magic shop in it with only major cities having anything substantial in the way of a Magic Shop.

What I meant by DMs are cool is that they for have to cookie cutter anything and can tweak settings to be more geared to other things such as a higher magic world. Not that any DM who doesn't have magic shops is a mud stick.

[alexandraerin]

Actually, most of the cost is in costs of experimenting and figuring out how to cast the spell yourself--the translation to your personal style of magic. That's why you can copy a spell you've already figured out for 20% of the cost.

Right, most of the cost. I'm talking about that 20% of the cost you can't get away from. The fact that it's the smaller portion of the cost of copying a new spell doesn't change the fact that the cost of copying a spell from your own spellbook directly into a blank one is way more than normal ink should account for.

The PHB specifies "fine inks". I'm saying, magic ink or ink that is of a sufficient quality to capture ink is the best explanation for what that means.

[mrumsey]

Why not just let them copy it and only cast it as a ritual. Set an increased casting time (10 minute minimum) and a cost above the normal. They saw it. They invested in a feat to do cool things. But they don't get unlimited power.

Some spells could be just as good (or better) as rituals, but if you insert other limitations (as minor as they may be) the players can get their cool and not throw your world out of alignment. Imagine an NPC 'wizard' who only knew spells as rituals because he 'stole' them instead of actually studying.

It could be pretty fun if allowed.