Raising saves from magic items

[GeminiVeil]

I've been looking in the books for a while, and have only come up with one solution to this issue. I was hoping to get more help from the playground.

My character is looking to buy a specific item. A rod of transposition (MiC pg 175). Unfortunately, the will save it offers for the unwilling creatures is just pitiful (13), especially for the level we are currently at (10). I am looking for ways to boost this save, either during the creation of it (DM is very flexible about this, but wants something in the rules before deciding) or after.

So, in short, are there any RAW ways to increase the DC from the rod, and if so, what effect does that have on the cost of the item?

My solution works, but it makes the price far too high for the gains.

Thanks everyone for helping me with this.

[Bronk]

So, in short, are there any RAW ways to increase the DC from the rod, and if so, what effect does that have on the cost of the item?


I think the best you're going to find is in the description of caster level in 'magic item basics' in the SRD:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm


The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable).

...

For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

If the creator sets the caster level, that implies that the creator will also set the save DC. Since some spells are different levels on different spell lists, those would definitely have different Save DCs from different creators. You'd have to extrapolate from there.

[ApologyFestival]

If the creator sets the caster level, that implies that the creator will also set the save DC. Since some spells are different levels on different spell lists, those would definitely have different Save DCs from different creators. You'd have to extrapolate from there.
The creator sets the caster level, yes. That implies nothing about the save DC.

To increase the minimum DC for saving throws of magic items you create, you need the feat Enhance Item (Epic Level Handbook, p. 114). You choose any item creation feat you already know, and when creating an item with that feat you use your own key ability score modifier rather than the minimum score necessary.

Despite being in the Epic Level Handbook, Enhance Item is not an epic feat.

Also, using Enhance Item does not adjust the cost of creating a magic item--that's a pretty big oversight. You may be able to persuade your DM that you can find a dedicated item crafter with Enhance Item (Craft Rod) and a level-appropriate Intelligence score, and while RAW the cost is exactly the same as picking up a standard rod at your local Magic Mart, it's more reasonable that the item crafter would charge a significant amount for their rare expertise and sunken feats.

Edit: For some idea as to how uncommon this character would be, such a character would be at minimum a 9th-level artificer or a 10th-level pure wizard, and would have dedicated a significant chunk of their character build to making rods.

[Darrin]

Creator's caster level sets the saves for when the magic item has to make a save. It has nothing to do with the save DC when you use the item on someone else.

The issue here is when you create a magic item with an effect that involves a save, the DC is set to 10 + spell level. The caster's Int bonus (or whatever his spellcasting ability bonus would be) isn't added to the save DC, as it would be if the spell were being cast normally. And if you stick with just the guidelines in the DMG, there's really nothing in the rules that allows you to change that. Well, Heighten Spell would probably work, but using a higher level spell will drive up the cost.

Sometimes the best way to improve a save DC is to soften up your target with save penalties. Paladin of Tyranny 3's Aura of Despair with Hexblade 4's Dark Companion ACF can knock down a target's save by -4 without relying on the target to fail a save against something else first.

[MisterKaws]

I'm pretty sure you can just heighten it.

[nedz]

Put the effect you want on a Staff.

[Âmesang]

Speaking of which, does anyone else think the Staff of the Magi never got the memo about how staff saving throws work in 3.5? For one thing, not only does it list saving throw DCs (as staves would have in 3.0 I gather, though based solely on the Epic Level Handbook), but it doesn't even use the expected formulæ:


10 + Spell Level + Ability modifier of the minimum ability score required to cast the spell
(I.E., a wand of fireball would have a DC of 14 — 10+3+1)

Instead, the formulæ appears to be:


10 + Spell Level + 3.0 Greater Spell Focus
(enlarge person is 10+1+4=15, pyrotechnics is 10+2+4=16, fireball/lightning bolt is 10+3+4=17, and telekinesis is 10+5+4=19)

I'm thinking of making a house rule that the spells cast from a Staff of the Magi follow the normal rules for casting spells from staves, save that they also a +2 bonus to their saves as if the wielder had 3.5 Greater Spell Focus in the spell's school of magic (which, naturally, would overlap with any [Greater] Spell Focus the wielder may already possess). It'd certainly fit with its "Strong (all schools)" aura.

…come to think of it, the SRD never fixed the staves' saving throws from the Epic Level Handbook, either. :smallconfused:

[Zaq]

If you get access to vestiges (Tome of Magic) and bind Karsus, you get the "heavy magic" ability, which increases the save DC of any effects you create with a magic item by 2. Karsus is a 3rd level vestige, so you need an Effective Binder Level of 5 or better to bind him (so 5 levels in Binder, or 3 levels in Binder plus the feat Improved Binding). You could also get this effect from feats alone, but it would take 3 feats (Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Practiced Binder).

I imagine your class levels are more valuable to you than that, but if you're a caster anyway, you could also sneak up on Karsus by using Anima Mage.

[nedz]

Speaking of which, does anyone else think the Staff of the Magi never got the memo about how staff saving throws work in 3.5? For one thing, not only does it list saving throw DCs (as staves would have in 3.0 I gather, though based solely on the Epic Level Handbook), but it doesn't even use the expected formulæ:


10 + Spell Level + Ability modifier of the minimum ability score required to cast the spell
(I.E., a wand of fireball would have a DC of 14 — 10+3+1)

Instead, the formulæ appears to be:


10 + Spell Level + 3.0 Greater Spell Focus
(enlarge person is 10+1+4=15, pyrotechnics is 10+2+4=16, fireball/lightning bolt is 10+3+4=17, and telekinesis is 10+5+4=19)

I'm thinking of making a house rule that the spells cast from a Staff of the Magi follow the normal rules for casting spells from staves, save that they also a +2 bonus to their saves as if the wielder had 3.5 Greater Spell Focus in the spell's school of magic (which, naturally, would overlap with any [Greater] Spell Focus the wielder may already possess). It'd certainly fit with its "Strong (all schools)" aura.

That's because the Staff of the Magi isn't a Staff.

[Bronk]

The creator sets the caster level, yes. That implies nothing about the save DC.

Nifty, that feat had fallen off my radar. Although, the feat itself mentions having the save DCs be set by the character casting the spell, using the spell level and the minimum caster stat bonus necessary for the spell. For spells that are on different lists at different levels, these will be different numbers even without the use of the feat.

[Shalist]

Note that if you apply enhance item to one of those Eberron cost reducing feats (legendary / exceptional / extraordinary artisan), it would then apply to all magic items you create.

[ApologyFestival]

Note that if you apply enhance item to one of those Eberron cost reducing feats (legendary / exceptional / extraordinary artisan), it would then apply to all magic items you create.
Oh, hey, cool. How about that.

Great idea!