Post-Tarrasque Optimization Challenge

[MaxWilson]

Scenario:

You've just saved your kingdom from the Tarrasque, and everyone rejoices... except for the evil wizard who kidnapped you after the festivities and threw you into magical arena. His goal: show that you're not so tough. You will die in a humiliating fashion, killed by puny weaklings, and your death re-broadcast to all of your new fans to strike terror into their hearts, etc., etc.

You're in a 200' diameter featureless arena fighting an infinite horde of zombie five-year-olds who will stop at nothing to kill you. (Stats as regular zombies, but with only Str 6.) Every round, 1d10 new zombie five-year-olds teleport in, along the edges of the arena. How many five-year-olds can you kill before they tear you to shreds with their tiny teeth?

Bonus points to anyone who can kill more than a thousand by level 12.

[Squibsallotl]

I told myself I was going to concentrate on backstory now... *sigh*

Should we attack this challenge as L12, or L20?

[Malifice]

Vuman: Cleric [War] 1/ Fiend lock 11.

Feats: Heavy armor master, Great weapon master
Core class features: Fiendish resilience (bludgeoning), Dark ones blessing

Strength 6 Zombies deal (1d6-2) B damage on a hit (maximum of 4 points of damage). The 'lock is resistant to bludgeoning damage (first halving it to a maximum of 2 points of damage), and then ignores the first 3 points that do get through via HAM. Only lucky crits have a chance of actually hurting him.

A max damage crit would deal (2d6-2) or 10 damage, halved to 5, and then reduced to 2 from HAM.

Combined with permanently having an extra 15 temp HP refreshing each round from dark ones blessing, it kills NI zombies untill eventually dying from exhaustion from lack of sleep.

Has 3 x cure wounds spells at 5th level if needed too.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Vuman: Fighter 1/ Fiend lock 11.

Feats: Heavy armor master, Great weapon master
Core class features: Fiendish resilience (bludgeoning), Dark ones blessing

Strength 6 Zombies deal (1d6-2) B damage on a hit (maximum of 4 points of damage). The 'lock is resistant to bludgeoning damage (first halving it to a maximum of 2 points of damage), and then ignores the first 3 points that do get through via HAM. Only lucky crits have a chance of actually hurting him.

A max damage crit would deal (2d6-2) or 10 damage, halved to 5, and then reduced to 2 from HAM.

Combined with permanently having an extra 15 temp HP refreshing each round from dark ones blessing, it kills NI zombies untill eventually dying from exhaustion from lack of sleep.

I was going to make pretty much the same build but with Cleric.

Zombies have Undead Fortitude, Sacred Flame makes taking them out a lot easier.

though I guess Fiend Warlock (Tome) could get me the cantrip.

[MaxWilson]

I told myself I was going to concentrate on backstory now... *sigh*

Should we attack this challenge as L12, or L20?

It's too easy at L20--an Onion Druid could kill infinite numbers of the zombies, for example. See how low-level you can go and still be able to kill at least a thousand before dying.


Strength 6 Zombies deal (1d6-2) B damage on a hit (maximum of 4 points of damage). The 'lock is resistant to bludgeoning damage (first halving it to a maximum of 2 points of damage), and then ignores the first 3 points that do get through via HAM. Only lucky crits have a chance of actually hurting him.

That's backwards actually. HAM applies first, then resistance after that.

If you're relying purely on HAM + resistance to protect you, you're probably safe for at least five minutes while the zombies tear the armor from your body. Hard to evaluate, but since it normally takes you 50 rounds to doff your own armor, let's say that it takes 50 successful opposed Athletics checks for the zombies to strip the armor off your body. If you have +8 to Athletics, you'll win 86% of those athletics contests, meaning that you're safe(ish) for (50/0.14)=357 zombie-turns.

I haven't done the math to see how much damage you'll take while wearing armor. Key question is how often the zombies get a crit in on the same turn when you fail to refresh your temp HP. If you're able to compute that number, please post it.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

How about instead of a glob of HP...

You have 2 children in a covered wagon being pulled by a warhorse through a busy city, your job is to protect these children from being abducted by the thieves guild. Your connections have told you that there is 1 assassin, 2 bandit captain, 4 scouts, 1 veteran, and 9 thugs from the thieves guild currently in the city.

You start in the center of town where you picked the children up from their parents, they were supposed to meet you in a better location but Nobles just have the noble. You are in the nicer bazaar area and must take the wagon (with the 2 children) about 5 miles to the edge of the city where your party has arranged to meet you. Along the way will be sections of buildings mostly just two or three stories tall and one park with only a little cover (less Central Park and more like a playground with a small grassy knoll). There is 4 main intersections (each 1 mile from the last and each has a 2 guard guard-station) but there are many minor intersections and ally ways along the way.

As you start you here the rumble of thunder in the distance (opposite of the way you are traveling).

How do you go about protecting the children?

What level would you attempt this? What's the minimum level you can complete this mission?

Do you multiclass or stay single class?

Tactics?

[Flashy]

Transmuter Wizard 6 with the Mobile feat. By combining the bonus movement from the Transmuter's Stone and the Mobile feat you can reach a movement speed of 50', 10' more than the child zombie's dash movement speed. If you can stay out of their reach for 10 rounds (which would be hard, but not impossible) you can cast Leomund's Tiny Hut, which the zombies cannot enter. You plink away at the zombies with cantrips until you starve to death, ritually recasting Leomund's Tiny Hut each time the spell is about to expire.

This probably doesn't work if the zombies spawn at points evenly spaced around the arena, but strikes me as having a reasonable chance if they always spawn in the same location. It's not perfectly reliable though.

[MaxWilson]

Transmuter Wizard 6 with the Mobile feat. By combining the bonus movement from the Transmuter's Stone and the Mobile feat you can reach a movement speed of 50', 10' more than the child zombie's dash movement speed. If you can stay out of their reach for 10 rounds (which would be hard, but not impossible) you can cast Leomund's Tiny Hut, which the zombies cannot enter. You plink away at the zombies with cantrips until you starve to death, ritually recasting Leomund's Tiny Hut each time the spell is about to expire.

This probably doesn't work if the zombies spawn at points evenly spaced around the arena, but strikes me as having a reasonable chance if they always spawn in the same location. It's not perfectly reliable though.

Leomund's Tiny Hut doesn't let you cast cantrips though. If you add in Magic Initiate (Goodberry) you can prevent yourself from starving to death, but you will not kill any zombies either. It's just an eternal stalemate, at least until the zombies tunnel under your hut.

I like SpawnOfMorbo's bodyguard scenario too.

[Flashy]

Leomund's Tiny Hut doesn't let you cast cantrips though.

Huh that's a super good point I hadn't noticed. Never mind then!

[lv99wizard]

How about Wizard 3? Take the cantrips Mold Earth from elemental evil player's companion and Flame Strike. Then, at first level, cast Tenser's Floating Disk and use Mold Earth to excavate a pit which is 5ft deep beneath the disk. So you should have a platform 8ft off the ground. This should keep you safe for at least one minute from the zombies.

Then cast Leomund's Tiny Hut and continue to cast it indefinitely as a ritual or otherwise. Eventually, as the zombies continue to spawn, they will be crushed under their own weight, filling up the 200' cube. :smalltongue:

EDIT: If you take a higher wizard level and cast Teleportation Circle within the hut you can go back to your Wizard's tower for ~7 hours per day and continue to live your life. RAW say a shimmering portal appears within the circle and, stepping through it, causes you to immediately appear within 5ft of the destination circle. That means no interaction through Leomund's hut border.

[Flashy]

Warlock 9/Druid 9 can do the arena scenario until it runs out of diamond dust, though it depends on the deeply questionable ruling that you can short rest while concentrating on a spell.

Take the Warlock Invocation that lets you cast Levitate without expending a spell slot. Cast it on yourself, and gently float 20' off the ground until you die of exhaustion. If you're allowed to short rest while levitating (again, deeply questionable) you can delay this indefinitely by using one of your 5th level warlock slots to cast Greater Restoration on yourself every time you take a level of exhaustion for not long resting. Feed yourself with Goodberry, continue until you run out of diamond dust or the zombie corpses form a ramp that the rest of the zombies can run up.

[Malifice]

That's backwards actually. HAM applies first, then resistance after that.

Meaning the zombies deal 1d6-5 damage; or a maximum of 1 point without a crit.

With 15 temp HP permanently 'up' I reckon I could manange just fine for days.

[MaxWilson]

Take the Warlock Invocation that lets you cast Levitate without expending a spell slot. Cast it on yourself, and gently float 20' off the ground until you die of exhaustion. If you're allowed to short rest while levitating (again, deeply questionable) you can delay this indefinitely by using one of your 5th level warlock slots to cast Greater Restoration on yourself every time you take a level of exhaustion for not long resting. Feed yourself with Goodberry, continue until you run out of diamond dust or the zombie corpses form a ramp that the rest of the zombies can run up.

Watch out for this one--one of the major differences between RPGs and CRPGs is that RPGs have infinite resolution. The DM isn't bound to stick to the letter of established precedent: just because the PHB doesn't have rules for stacking zombies on top of each other doesn't mean zombies cannot climb on top of each other.

In order to get points for this, you have to do at least a rough BOTE predicting how long you will be able to do your hover act before the zombies stack up high enough to reach you and kill you.

BTW, you don't have to wait for Ascendant Step to make this work, you could do it as early as 3rd level using Rope Trick. Main question will be killing speed: how many zombies can you kill before they get you?

============================================


With 15 temp HP permanently 'up' I reckon I could manange just fine for days.

You've only got 357 zombie-rounds until your armor is gone though. IIRC you can fit two Tiny creatures within a 5' area, and if so that means 16 zombies can surround you at once, which gives you roughly 22 rounds of killing once you are surrounded before your armor is stripped off and you die near-instantly.

Even if it takes 15 rounds for the zombies to get their act together and surround you, I don't think you can hit 1000 kills in 40 rounds. (15ish + 22 ~= 40.)

[Malifice]

You've only got 357 zombie-rounds until your armor is gone though. IIRC you can fit two Tiny creatures within a 5' area, and if so that means 16 zombies can surround you at once, which gives you roughly 22 rounds of killing once you are surrounded before your armor is stripped off and you die near-instantly.

Even if it takes 15 rounds for the zombies to get their act together and surround you, I don't think you can hit 1000 kills in 40 rounds. (15ish + 22 ~= 40.)

How are you dying near instantly?

Even without armor, your resistance to B damage sticks around. Thanks to a reduced strength, the zombies slam at +0, dealing (1d6-2)/2 damage on a hit. You cant have more than 16 around you. Even assuming a Dex of 10, thats 8 hits per round dealing [(0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2)/6] or around 0.8 damage per hit.

Thats about 6 damage per round. Off your 15 temp HP.

With an AC of 8 and 3d6+9 HP (hit dice drop to d6's due to reduced size) or 19 hp, youre dropping one zombie per round with GWM and refreshing your 15 temp HP buffer.

[Mara]

Watch out for this one--one of the major differences between RPGs and CRPGs is that RPGs have infinite resolution. The DM isn't bound to stick to the letter of established precedent: just because the PHB doesn't have rules for stacking zombies on top of each other doesn't mean zombies cannot climb on top of each other.

In order to get points for this, you have to do at least a rough BOTE predicting how long you will be able to do your hover act before the zombies stack up high enough to reach you and kill you.

BTW, you don't have to wait for Ascendant Step to make this work, you could do it as early as 3rd level using Rope Trick. Main question will be killing speed: how many zombies can you kill before they get you?



Ah but you see Ivan, when zombies ontop of each other you levitate ontop of zombies for fear of dying.

[MaxWilson]

How are you dying near instantly?

Even without armor, your resistance to B damage sticks around. Thanks to a reduced strength, the zombies slam at +0, dealing (1d6-2)/2 damage on a hit. You cant have more than 16 around you. Even assuming a Dex of 10, thats 8 hits per round dealing [(0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2)/6] or around 0.8 damage per hit.

Thats about 6 damage per round. Off your 15 temp HP.

With an AC of 8 and 3d6+9 HP (hit dice drop to d6's due to reduced size) or 19 hp, youre dropping one zombie per round with GWM and refreshing your 15 temp HP buffer.

You're right, that's not instant death--I forgot about the bludgeoning resistance. Would be interesting to see how long you can last.

Expect them to grapple and prone you, so they'll have advantage on all their attacks and you'll likely have disadvantage on yours.

[Zalabim]

Just to see some funny business: Level 12 Fiendlock, Bludgeoning Resistance. V. Human, Moderately Armored, Heavily Armored, GWM, and +2 Str. Currently 20 Str, 8 Dex, 16 Cha, and not in armor, because reasons.

Child-like zombie hits at +1 for 1d6-2. Average damage, after resistance rounds down, is .11055~ on a hit, 2.25 on a crit. Against AC 9, there's a 35% chance to miss, 60% chance to hit, 5% chance to crit. Average damage per hit = .275. Armor of Agathys 5th level kills a zombie on every hit, and its 25 HP lasts to kill ~91 zombies. Average damage with his Pact Greatsword is 2d6+5+3+10=25, easily dispatching a zombie(anydice tells me 91.66% of the time). With +4 to hit when power attacking, he hits 85% of the time, so it looks like the warlock can kill 2.3 zombies per round. Assuming dead zombies get climbed over, then 45-46 zombies pile in a round, until 16 miss and don't die on the armor. So 30 - 32 zombies die in a round. It takes 3 rounds to deplete the spell, then it has to be recast. Three slots. So, 3 rounds casting, 6 rounds attacking. 283.8 zombies down in a minute. After that, the lock is sustained by Dark One's Blessing until exhaustion kills him. After this, it'd take 312 rounds to break a thousand zombies. A little over half an hour in total.

If the zombies try to disarm him, Anydice tells me they have a 6.33% chance to succeed, and he can resummon his weapon as an action. On average, this means it takes all 16 zombies to succeed each turn, resulting in something not as good as a stalemate, since it won't always be the last zombie that succeeds, and the reminder could still attack. Once truly disarmed, the warlock still kills zombies with eldritch blast, but it'll take 3-6 hits per zombie, average 4.54 attacks per zombie, or 2 zombies in 3 rounds. Dark One's Blessing still sustains him, but it'll take 1086 more rounds to dispatch 1000 zombies. That's the length of a feature film. Bad luck will probably claim him before exhaustion in this case.

I assume he has to have something like a returning Javelin a Broom of Flying (and a lot of patience) in order to have killed the Tarrasque in the first place.

Edit: I may be overestimating their hit bonus.

As another tactic: If the arena starts full of zombies, and they charge you, then an inward circle wall of fire could kill ~1000 zombies in two or three rounds. Dragonborn Red Dragon Sorcerer for fire resist and con save, or Tiefling Evoker for fire resist. You'd all burn up in about a minute. Quick and clean. If you're a Fiend Tiefling Warlock, you might not even take any real damage. You could empty the densely packed 100' radius amphitheater of over 2500 zombies if they aren't told 'fire bad'.

If the arena starts empty, it takes 18 1/5 minutes for the requested 1000 zombies to enter the arena.

[joaber]

lvl 10 moon druid with mobile feat.

wild shape in earth elemental, burrow a safe place first, than burrow, attack, burrow. Can do this for 5h, or 3000 rounds. rest one hour in your safe cave, continue. Earth elemental is immune to exhaustion, so...

[Zman]

A lvl18 Champion with Heavy Armor Master. -3 Damage means they need to Crit or roll a 6 to hurt you, you heal 10 HP/round. There will never be enough Zombies in melee range with you to ever kill you.

[Zman]

A Sorcerer can from pretty low level. I'm comfortable saying 9, but it's doable at a lower level, maybe as low as 5th if you dump all resources into Fly and just plink away killing one every other round. Almost 300/hour, so it takes four 3rd level spells, meaning it's pretty easy to accomplish at 6th level.

Cast fly and maintain concentration. Repeat as necessary.

When the arena is fully populated a fireball hits something like 64 and will kill most of them. Firebolt +Cha kill one or a wounded one every other turn or a wounded one every turn they hit which is anything but a roll of a 1 at higher levels.

So at Level 9 I should be hard to pull it off, doable by 5th if you get lucky and burn all your lower spell slots for spell points to make more 3rd level slots, done on average by 6th level without trouble.

With 2 Levels of Warlock it gets more efficient, but isn't necessary.

6th level Dragon Sorcerer.

[CrusaderJoe]

Watch out for this one--one of the major differences between RPGs and CRPGs is that RPGs have infinite resolution. The DM isn't bound to stick to the letter of established precedent: just because the PHB doesn't have rules for stacking zombies on top of each other doesn't mean zombies cannot climb on top of each other.


https://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/pile-o-zombies.jpg

[Lonely Tylenol]

I am not that original. My build, too, is a Fiendlock, in this case 11/Fighter 1 (coming first for proficiencies), with Defense fighting style, bludgeoning resistance, and the Heavy Armor Master and Resilient (Constitution) feats. Only Charisma and Constitution matter. Spells known include Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield and Fire Wall. Essential cantrips are Eldritch Blast and Sword Burst. Essential invocations are Agonizing Blast, Ascendant Step, Repelling Blast, and Fiendish Vigor.

There are a few possible strategies here:

First, you can cast Wall of Fire outward, in a ring (just large enough to have my one square, and spam Sword Burst to kill anything which survives to melee range. Rinse and repeat.

Second, you could cast Wall of Fire inward, with Fire Shield (or racial benefits, such as Dragonborn) providing resistance, and then using Sword Burst spam to kill survivors.

Third, you could forego the Wall spells entirely and just use a combination of Armor of Agathys and Fire Shield to kill them by letting them kill themselves. How this works is dependent entirely on how the temporary hit points of Armor of Agathys interact with Dark One's Blessing. If AoA's hit points are reduced after the hit points bestowed upon you by Dark One's Blessing or False Life, then AoA is basically a free 25damage to the Zombie children, when hit, for one hour. Obviously, for this strategy you want to be unarmored, and if the zombies begin tearing away at your armor, this becomes your #1 strategy. Kill those who miss with Sword Burst spam.

Fourth, you use at-will Levitate (via Ascendant Step) and kill Zombies with Eldritch Blast. Don't kill Zombies directly beneath you, but if they somehow begin climbing to you, use your movement to go higher as necessary until you reach the roof, and then use the roof to "climb" away.

Depending on how you rule AoA, I would probably just default to that one for style points: arrive at the arena naked and slay 1,000 Zombie children by standing still and letting them engulf me, as the ultimate disrespect to this crazy Wizard.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Warforged Wizard with Leomund's Tiny Hut, a reach weapon, and some way to keep them off him for long enough to cast the spell (the mobile suggestion above, hide in an illusion, sanctuary, contingency, just tank it and hope the dice like you for a minute). Once the hut is up, poke any zombie stupid enough to approach the hut with the reach weapon (being proficient with the thing is utterly unnecessary) and refresh the hut when necessary. Since you don't need to eat or drink and only need 4 hours of rest each day, you can keep this up forever, and thus kill an arbitrarily high number of zombies, assuming that a) they don't learn to stay away and b) there is no way to borrow under the featureless arena, or if there is, the zombies are too dumb to think of it.

That's level 5 at the earliest - getting the spell off at that level is dicey, but not impossible (try magic initiate: sanctuary)

Addendum: an alternative strategy is to be a conjurer with a crossbow, using minor conjuration to make more bolts once you're out (though arguably this runs into problems with the wording of Tiny Hut. Still, if that's the case, you still have a pointy reach stick.)

[Finieous]

From the other thread...

12th-level cleric puts down magic circle and the zombies can't get inside. The cleric has 100 rounds of 6th-level spirit guardians (average damage = 27/13.5) and 200 rounds of 5th-level spirit guardians (22.5/11.25). The zombies have a 10% chance to make the save (need a 19), so maybe one out of five every other round survives the first round. Their speed is reduced to 10 ft. once they enter the spirit guardians and they're often auto-killed by the time they reach the magic circle. If not, they're trapped outside the circle and die at the beginning of their next turn. The damage is radiant, so Undead Fortitude doesn't even apply, not that it would help them.

Five-and-a-half zombies per round for 300 rounds (30 minutes) is 1,650 zombies, but really he can keep it going with the 4th- and 3rd-level slots. The zombies can't get inside the circle and can't survive outside it. That's up to 500 more rounds, setting aside the slot for the magic circle. That's 2,750 more zombies, for a total of 4,400.

The magic circle probably isn't strictly necessary (it just eliminates theory arguments), but if Max has time to set up an arena with infinite teleporting child zombies, I have a minute to draw a circle in the dirt.

[MaxWilson]

Third, you could forego the Wall spells entirely and just use a combination of Armor of Agathys and Fire Shield to kill them by letting them kill themselves. How this works is dependent entirely on how the temporary hit points of Armor of Agathys interact with Dark One's Blessing. If AoA's hit points are reduced after the hit points bestowed upon you by Dark One's Blessing or False Life, then AoA is basically a free 25damage to the Zombie children, when hit, for one hour. Obviously, for this strategy you want to be unarmored, and if the zombies begin tearing away at your armor, this becomes your #1 strategy. Kill those who miss with Sword Burst spam.

AoA is temp HP, and so is Dark One's Blessing, and you can never have more than once source of temp HP at a time, so they never stick--they are mutually exclusive. However, you could do a variant of this with Necromancer instead of Warlock: every kill by a Fire Shield gives you back 8 HP, and they're real HP not temp HP so they stack.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

The magic circle probably isn't strictly necessary (it just eliminates theory arguments), but if Max has time to set up an arena with infinite teleporting child zombies, I have a minute to draw a circle in the dirt.

I don't see why that's necessarily so. You got kidnapped and dumped in an arena - the evil wizard doesn't have to give you any breathing room.

Max, can we get a minute? because if we can, my strategy is completely bad-luck-proof.

[Finieous]

I don't see why that's necessarily so.

Nothing is necessarily so -- it's Max's scenario. ;)

Still, I'll roll without the "I-win" button. The cleric can sacred flame any first-round survivors at will (chance to save = 10%), and if things get hairy, he can Destroy Undead a couple times. After the first few dozen zombies, the newcomers will have to climb over them, spending even more time in the spirit guardians effect before reaching the cleric. Eventually, the cleric will die when the child zombie donut collapses in on him.

[CantigThimble]

Level 12 Fighter with Ritual Caster: Cleric, Heavy Armor Master, Warcaster and +4 con. They can barely hurt me and when they do I have a 1/400 chance of failing my concentration save, and when I do I have indomitable. Then, I cast forbiddance on the entire arena. So unless they beat my 21 AC and roll a 6 800 times I will be able to resolve my spell and kill an infinite number of them. Assuming they surround me from turn 1 they will have 10 min x 10 rounds x 8 attacks=800 attacks total to resist. I can recast the ritual every day for the next 30 days to make it permanent.

Edit: Oh and don't forget that casting rituals or spells that take longer than a minute takes concentration. You can't have spirit guardians at the same time.

[Finieous]

Edit: Oh and don't forget that casting rituals or spells that take longer than a minute takes concentration. You can't have spirit guardians at the same time.

Yeah, I assumed the magic circle would be set up. I wouldn't bother trying to cast it once the scenario begins.

[MaxWilson]

I don't see why that's necessarily so. You got kidnapped and dumped in an arena - the evil wizard doesn't have to give you any breathing room.

Max, can we get a minute? because if we can, my strategy is completely bad-luck-proof.

Two points:

1.) Leomund's Tiny Hut is not completely bad-luck-proof, because it is only a hemisphere. Eventually the zombies are going to start trying to tunnel under. I haven't defined what the floor material is (let's say it's made out of the same material as the floor of the Colosseum; is that stone?) but it seems unlikely that an infinite amount of mindless prying fingers are going to be immune to that forever. More analysis needed.

2.) Getting an initial minute has to be part of your strategy. The zombies appear randomly on the perimeter of the arena, 1d10 new ones every round. With 20' speed, you can stand in the center and gain two rounds of respite. The other eight rounds are up to you.

=============================================


Level 12 Fighter with Ritual Caster: Cleric, Heavy Armor Master, Warcaster and +4 con. They can barely hurt me and when they do I have a 1/400 chance of failing my concentration save, and when I do I have indomitable. Then, I cast forbiddance on the entire arena. So unless they beat my 21 AC and roll a 6 800 times I will be able to resolve my spell and kill an infinite number of them. Assuming they surround me from turn 1 they will have 10 min x 10 rounds x 8 attacks=800 attacks total to resist. I can recast the ritual every day for the next 30 days to make it permanent.

I want to see the enemy wizard scream in rage when you turn his revenge inside out like this.

[Finieous]

Yeah, I assumed the magic circle would be set up. I wouldn't bother trying to cast it once the scenario begins.

ETA: With Max's recent comments, sanctuary could buy me the time I need for the magic circle, but it seems like it would get hairy. I'd have a lot of zombies inside the circle once I completed it. They'd have disadvantage on attacks against me, but I'd still have to blow a Destroy Undead to clear them out. Easier to just let spirit guardians kill the zombies as they come in.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Also I have been thinking about this challenge the wrong way. My character isn't going to win or get out of there alive (mostly). I need to think of this like a story and not like a combat game that D&D is.

My choice is the Fiend/Fighter but I also take two levels of Rogue. I will be a makeshift bard (kind of the way Bards originally were meant to be... Lots of multiclassing).

I put Expertise in Performance and Persuasion or Deception (invocation could give me prof)

I make it look damn good.

I want to make it where the Wizard doesn't win, yeah eventually I'll die but that would happen eventually without the wizard's help. The Wizard won't be able to show my death because I will go down like the glorious bastard that I am.

As I battle I will be telling my story, the story of a man that knows the ending and is embracing the ending with a smile, a sword, and a bit of magic. I will tell them my loves, my hates, my regrets, and my hopes.

Even if the wizard doesn't use sound, my performance will be enough to convey my message. The look in my eyes alone will have bards singing my praise till Io comes home.

This is how I win, even if I don't take out 1,000 or 1,000,000 zombies. The wizard can't use me for his schemes.

[Shining Wrath]

Not optimal but this would be quite the show ...

Champion fighter in full plate with a greatsword. Great Weapon Master feat, Defensive Style as one of his choices.
He took the Magic Initiate feat and can cast Protection from Evil on himself. His AC is 19, but the zombies have disadvantage and with their puny strength of 6 have to roll 20 (IIRC - AFB) to hit, with disadvantage means one in 400. In the meantime, he's making 3 attacks a turn plus extra attacks every time he crits, which is one attack in 10, and killing with almost every hit. Only 6 little zombies can attack him per round.

If this Champion fighter is above level 17, he will be gradually worn down to 1/2 HP once his PfE wears off, and then he will regenerate faster than the little zombies can hurt him - so unless the DM rules that they tear his armor off him or some such, he'll stand there at 50% HP and kill zombies until he dies of exhaustion.

[Lonely Tylenol]

AoA is temp HP, and so is Dark One's Blessing, and you can never have more than once source of temp HP at a time, so they never stick--they are mutually exclusive. However, you could do a variant of this with Necromancer instead of Warlock: every kill by a Fire Shield gives you back 8 HP, and they're real HP not temp HP so they stack.

I thought of that already. "You don't gain this benefit from killing constructs or undead."

I know you can't have more than one source of temporary HP at a time (as in, temporary HP don't stack), but... I don't know how to put it... If you voluntarily take another source of temporary HP, do you lose the rider effects of the first? I don't know the ruling on this. Example: Armor of Agathys has 4 temporary hit points left, and you gain 7 temporary hit points from another source which does not have a rider, does the AoA end?

[MaxWilson]

I thought of that already. "You don't gain this benefit from killing constructs or undead."

Oh, man, you're right. Too bad.


I know you can't have more than one source of temporary HP at a time (as in, temporary HP don't stack), but... I don't know how to put it... If you voluntarily take another source of temporary HP, do you lose the rider effects of the first? I don't know the ruling on this. Example: Armor of Agathys has 4 temporary hit points left, and you gain 7 temporary hit points from another source which does not have a rider, does the AoA end?

Armor of Agathys's spell text makes it clear that you do: the extra damage happens only while you have AoA's temp HP. If you take temp HP from another source, you no longer have those temp HP, so AoA ceases to function.

[-Jynx-]

Step one:

Create an Aarakocra

Step two:

Give it a fighter level and a bow

Step three:

Profit

[CantigThimble]

Step one:

Create an Aarakocra

Step two:

Give it a fighter level and a bow

Step three:

Profit

The only question is weather the zombie-pile will get tall enough that you will get forced to altitudes to high to breathe.

[Finieous]

The only question is weather the zombie-pile will get tall enough that you will get forced to altitudes to high to breathe.

No, the first question is how many arrows he has when the evil wizard teleports him. Second question is how many arrows he can theoretically carry while still being able to fly. ;)

[CantigThimble]

No, the first question is how many arrows he has when the evil wizard teleports him. Second question is how many arrows he can theoretically carry while still being able to fly. ;)

Although the forbiddance plan also works much better with an Aarakocra wizard with ritual caster: cleric. Nothing says you need to be on the ground to cast a ritual! Why wizard you ask? So you can cast demiplane every day to dispose of the charred child corpses.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

No, the first question is how many arrows he has when the evil wizard teleports him. Second question is how many arrows he can theoretically carry while still being able to fly. ;)

Anime girl style rules? The small extradimensional space right below their spine has an unlimited storage facility in which to pull weapons out of?

[MaxWilson]

Although the forbiddance plan also works much better with an Aarakocra wizard with ritual caster: cleric. Nothing says you need to be on the ground to cast a ritual! Why wizard you ask? So you can cast demiplane every day to dispose of the charred child corpses.

But how will you get them through the door of the demiplane?

[Finieous]

But how will you get them through the door of the demiplane?

Once he gets the forbiddance off, no more zombies are coming through. Animate a few of the child corpses (again) to dump the first 100 rounds worth in the demiplane. Nice and tidy!

[CantigThimble]

But how will you get them through the door of the demiplane?

A horde of unseen servants? Given enough time you can also create permanent teleportation circles right next to the evil wizards that lead to a chute that goes through the forbidden area (to kill them) and into a giant hole with an unseen servant powered compacting mechanism. You let them pile up while you rest then summon some servants to compact them into a demiplane's worth (possibly with additional incineration to reduce the mass) and dump the ashes in.

So, how long before the CO2 emissions from your magical child disposal factory render the arena unlivable? Also, uses for 200 demiplanes filled to the brim with orphan dust?

[Markoff Chainey]

Just a note on the zombie-pile... Magehand as a bonus action and you move 30 Feet in any direction while levitating - this should prevent any pile attempts.

[Douche]

I cast teleport and leave this silly challenge where all these other dudes are willing to starve to death.

Or I cast clone 120 days ago and just let the zombie children rip me to shreds cuz I respawn anyway

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Two points:

1.) Leomund's Tiny Hut is not completely bad-luck-proof, because it is only a hemisphere. Eventually the zombies are going to start trying to tunnel under. I haven't defined what the floor material is (let's say it's made out of the same material as the floor of the Colosseum; is that stone?) but it seems unlikely that an infinite amount of mindless prying fingers are going to be immune to that forever. More analysis needed.

2.) Getting an initial minute has to be part of your strategy. The zombies appear randomly on the perimeter of the arena, 1d10 new ones every round. With 20' speed, you can stand in the center and gain two rounds of respite. The other eight rounds are up to you.


1. Are zombies even smart enough to try digging? (Bear in mind they cannot actually see a target within, because Tiny Hut is opaque. Though I suppose Mr. Dark Wizard could just tell them to.) Even if they are, very stupid very weak things trying to dig through stone with their bare hands while I'm hitting them with a halberd is going to take a very, very long time, no matter how many of them there are (numbers become about irrelevant after a while, because only so many zombies can fit around the hut)

However, unless the hut becomes too surrounded with zombie corpses for any more to approach, they will eventually get through (I was working under the assumption that the featureless floor was impenetrable), so I'll add in Mason's Tools and the Mold Earth cantrip to reinforce the floor. Furthermore, after I gain two levels from all the zombie killing, I will take the Fabricate spell to improve the fortifications.

In addition to this, in between killing zombies and reinforcing the ground, I'll be digging a hole (much faster than a Zombie, because I have magic, a pickaxe, proficiency, and not occasionally being interrupted by a halberd. Once the hole is big enough, I will drop into it and cast Tiny hut from down there, thus putting more rock between me and the zombies. I will repeat this process until I am far enough down that fall damage alone is enough to kill them.

2) On closer inspection, you can actually move when casting a ritual spell (PHB 202 - `you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so` meaning your move is free), so dropping sanctuary (from Magic Initiate) and running around a lot should get me through with a bit of luck. Another option is to cast a Minor Illusion of something uninteresting (e.g. a 5x5x5 block of complete darkness/stone/wood) and hide in it.

[PoeticDwarf]

Meaning the zombies deal 1d6-5 damage; or a maximum of 1 point without a crit.

With 15 temp HP permanently 'up' I reckon I could manange just fine for days.

1 point. That halved (rounded down) still means 0 damage

[rlc]

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how being attacked by a horde of zombies is an embarrassing death, regardless of how old they were before they died.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Step one:

Create an Aarakocra

Step two:

Give it a fighter level and a bow

Step three:

Profit

Firstly, you're going to run out of arrows. Secondly, you're going to fall asleep eventually. Thirdly, you're going to starve to death.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how being attacked by a horde of zombies is an embarrassing death, regardless of how old they were before they died.

No one said the Wizard was good at the dramatics or story telling.

[-Jynx-]

The only question is weather the zombie-pile will get tall enough that you will get forced to altitudes to high to breathe.

Probably well below the height of which even a coordinating shambling mound of bodies could reasonably pile themselves before toppling over or crushing the bottom layer beneath its weight.

Heck he could fly up, let the zombies pile up and simply let gravity crush the bottom few each time a new one climbs up.

Edit:

Firstly, you're going to run out of arrows. Secondly, you're going to fall asleep eventually. Thirdly, you're going to starve to death.

1. So I can't have a magic quiver? Who even REALLY counts arrows on their archers these days anyways? Even if you want to be a stickler about it again if he flies up high enough as the bodies clamber on one another their combined weight would constantly keep crushing the bottom zombies and doing the work for him.

2. I mean... I guess.

3. Maybe my birdfolk is part crow. Those tasty zombies just provide me with sustenance.

[CantigThimble]

Probably well below the height of which even a coordinating shambling mound of bodies could reasonably pile themselves before toppling over or crushing the bottom layer beneath its weight.

Heck he could fly up, let the zombies pile up and simply let gravity crush the bottom few each time a new one climbs up.

The bodies will still pile up, they don't vanish when they run out of hit points.

[-Jynx-]

The bodies will still pile up, they don't vanish when they run out of hit points.

True, but after enough blood and guts and fleshy bits have sufficiently coated the mound of re-dead zombies how likely is it more zombies can climb it?

Surely your uncoordinated, unintelligent zombie isn't dexterous enough to traverse a squishy mount coated in all kinds of viscous liquids?

[8wGremlin]

1st level Winged Tiefling, Warlock - Eldritch Blast.

You eventually die due to having to sleep.
However doing 1d10 force damage with a 'to hit' of +5 vs AC of 8, will kill 0.25 of a zombies a turn (approx).

EB doing just over 5 damage on average.
With Zombies having 22 hit points and the 'you can't kill me' return to 1 hp ability as well.
this lowers the amount of 'Kills' per turn to less than 0.2.

you can kill 1 zombie every 5 turns...

but at least you are flying... until you need to sleep...

[TheTeaMustFlow]

The bodies will still pile up, they don't vanish when they run out of hit points.

It's still going to take a truly implausible number of bodies to reach 26000 feet (or higher, since Aarakocra may well need less oxygen than a human). Assuming you've avoided dropping out of the sky long before then.

Also, the zombies spawn at the edges of the arena - eventually they'll just be crushed under the weight of dead five-year-olds.

...That was not a sentence I ever expected to write.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Armor of Agathys's spell text makes it clear that you do: the extra damage happens only while you have AoA's temp HP. If you take temp HP from another source, you no longer have those temp HP, so AoA ceases to function.

Thanks, am away from book. In that case, only strategies 1, 2, and 4 apply as regards racking up a kill count.

[CantigThimble]

True, but after enough blood and guts and fleshy bits have sufficiently coated the mound of re-dead zombies how likely is it more zombies can climb it?

Surely your uncoordinated, unintelligent zombie isn't dexterous enough to traverse a squishy mount coated in all kinds of viscous liquids?

Well, teleportation circle makes them appear in the nearest unoccupied space if the circle is full, so once the circles are covered by the heap of corpses (undead or dead) they'll start appearing on the slopes of mount orphan, adding more to the height slowly. We have an average of 55 zombies per minute, so 3300 per hour and 79,200 per day. I was about to look up the mass and volume of a 6 year old to calculate how long it takes to push you out of the sky but decided against it. I think that would be taking it too far. XD

[8wGremlin]

To make it easy make it a 200' diameter sphere, half and half earth and air. Thus the max height is then 195' high.


if we convert this to Squares, with each creature taking up one square, we get

200' diameter is 40 square diameter. So total volume is 33,510 squares
half of which is earth, which leaves us with 16,755 squares.

At the rate of fill of 3300 per hour, you have 5 hours before the whole sphere is full.

WOW....

[ZenBear]

Seeing as this is post-Tarrasque slaying, you should be built to kill said Tarrasque. Which Tarrasque slayer build can last the longest?

[SharkForce]

level 10 moon druid should win. start by lighting as many zombies on fire as possible (you may find the "create bonfire" spell useful). follow up by turning into a fire elemental and keep the fires going (you can light creatures and objects on fire easily enough by simply moving through them; some form of obscuring spell is recommended if you're just going to walk through). as a fire elemental, you don't need air, food, water, or sleep, and are immune to exhaustion.

you should eventually get the temperature to the point where the zombies instantly burst into flames and die as they appear. you can stay in fire elemental form for at least 5 hours, short rests only require 1 hour, and no zombie can survive long enough to get to you. you never need long rests either.

the only possible downfall is if the DM rules you must return to human form in between wild shapes.

[zylodrizzt]

So obviously there's some air coming in from somewhere or else the only things that could be here is Warforged and undead basically and I've only heard one person say to escape so I thought of a way to do it. As a druid I'm sure I've seen fleas. I make my way over to the wall. Flea form go search for those air vents crawl out. Zombies crush themselves to redeath. I'll not play your game or desecrate the corpses further especially since they children you monster.

[MaxWilson]

The bodies will still pile up, they don't vanish when they run out of hit points.

Wait, what, they don't?!? The Gold Box games lied to me!!

[AvatarVecna]

Scenario:

You've just saved your kingdom from the Tarrasque, and everyone rejoices... except for the evil wizard who kidnapped you after the festivities and threw you into magical arena. His goal: show that you're not so tough. You will die in a humiliating fashion, killed by puny weaklings, and your death re-broadcast to all of your new fans to strike terror into their hearts, etc., etc.

You're in a 200' diameter featureless arena fighting an infinite horde of zombie five-year-olds who will stop at nothing to kill you. (Stats as regular zombies, but with only Str 6.) Every round, 1d10 new zombie five-year-olds teleport in, along the edges of the arena. How many five-year-olds can you kill before they tear you to shreds with their tiny teeth?

Bonus points to anyone who can kill more than a thousand by level 12.

*shrugs*

Wood Elf Cleric 12

Even if they beat me on initiative and Dash every round (and have equal speed to full size zombies), it'll take them more than 3 rounds to get to where I am in the center.

Round 1: "Stone Shape" to make 5 ft by 5 ft by 5 ft hole beneath my feet.

Round 2: "Stone Shape" to make 5 ft by 5 ft by 5 ft hole beneath my feet.

Round 3: "Stone Shape" to fill the first "Stone Shape's" area.

Round 4: "Stone Shape" to make 5 ft by 5 ft by 5 ft hole beneath my feet.

Round 5: "Stone Shape" to fill the second "Stone Shape's" area.

This results in my character having a small cave with 10 ft of stone for the zombies to dig through if they want to get to me. 10 ft of stone should have AC 17 and 27 HP, and should probably qualify for a Damage Threshold. If that DT is even as low as 10, the zombies can't hurt it even with crit damage, so you'll be safe until you decide to leave.

Round 6: Begin casting "Hallow".

Round 14406: Finish casting "Hallow". Begin taking Long Rest.

Round 16806: Finish taking Long Rest. Prepare your spells for all of the following steps.

Day 2 Round 1: Cast Sanctuary.

D2R2: Burrow back to the surface using Stone Shape a couple times.

D2R3: Cast Sanctuary again. Begin casting Magic Circle (using a 6th lvl slot to make it last 4 hours).

Now you have 4 hours to blast away, and the only undead that can even reach you to attack you are the eight already within the Magic Circle; the rest won't stand a chance. After you've dealt with those 8 zombies, you have a little less than 4 hours to blast the rest of the ones within the Hallow radius to smithereens (between long-term blasting spells like Insect Plague and at-will Cantrips, this should be easy). Once all the undead within the Hallow effect are dead and you're not dead, you're home free: the Hallow will last until dispelled, the undead can't enter, and you can heal yourself up and feed yourself with spells every day if necessary.

Now all you need to worry about is when the dead bodies inevitably pile up high enough that you get pushed out of the Hallow effect...but since you control the rate at which the dead bodies pile up, you can easily repeat the above every time it becomes an issue.

[supergoji18]

Is stuff from Unearthed Arcana articles allowed in this? Because if so, there's a ton of Wizard, Sorcerer and Mystic builds that could work.

Warforged Champion Fighter 1/Immortal Mystic 1/Fiendish Warlock 10 (Blade Pact)
Str: 14 (+1 from race)
Dex: 12
Con: 18 (+1 from race, +2 from 2 ASI)
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Fighting Style: Defense
Immortal Discipline: Iron Durability
Damage Resistance: Bludgeoning
Invocations: Fiendish Vigor, Ascendant Step, Life Drinker, Thirsting Blade, Conjure Elemental
Feats: Heavy Armor Master

Armor: Plate + Shield
AC: 23 (18 from plate, +2 from shield, +1 from race, +1 from Fighting Style, +1 from Discipline)

The zombies have to roll a 20 in order to hit, and when they do they can only do at maximum 5 damage at a time. on average however, they will be doing only 2 damage per hit. On a build that has 113 HP. That means it would take 57 hits to kill. If a zombie hit exactly 1 in 20 times, it would take 1140 turns to kill this build. This is not factoring in the added temporary HP from the Dark One's Blessing feature.

If put 3 more levels into Mystic, we get the Psionic Regeneration feature, which would effectively make dying impossible for this build. Since the average damage being dealt at a time to this guy is 2 damage and this feature lets the character regain exactly that (when at half health only).

With the Fiendish Vigor and Ascendant Step invocations, you could easily get away and gain some temporary HP if you're getting low on health. Conjure Elemental to summon a Fire Elemental also helps a lot. As does the use of Flame Strike or Hallow.

Finally, since Warforged do not require air, food, or drink to survive, they only need to worry about resting, which for warforged is just powering down for a few hours. Power down mode won't be such an issue with the Hallow spell active.

Strategy:
- Cast Hallow on a location of your choice.
- Fight as much as you please, either just inside or outside the are affected by Hallow. This way, the zombies can't surround you.
- Kill as many as possible until you're either low on health or get bored. Then retreat to your hallowed ground.
- start picking off zombies with Eldritch Blast or Flame Strike.
- Rest
- If you feel like it, summon an elemental to help you fight.
- wash, rince and repeat for all eternity.

An even cheaper strategy I just thought of:
- Cast Hallow
- Short Rest
- Cast Hallow again in a new area.
- repeat step 2
- continue doing this until the entire arena is covered by Hallow Spells.
- Zombies can no longer spawn in the arena.
- Evil Wizard's plan has been thwarted and the day is saved

Both of these strategies sort of rely on the assumption that the Wizard is not allowed to interfere with the fight other than summoning more zombies.

[MaxWilson]

Is stuff from Unearthed Arcana articles allowed in this?

No playtest material, but feel free to use anything published. (EE and SCAG, I think that's currently it.)

[pdehaan]

If a level 13 Wizard is OK, I've got this:


Pop Leomund's Tiny Hut to give myself a bit of time to work.
Clear any zombies that happen to be inside with me. Sunbeam seems like a good choice, but it's not like I'm short on options.
Now that I've got some breathing room, take 10 minutes to cast Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion.


Now I'm in a nice relaxing mansion with all the supplies I need to live in comfort. When I feel like making a show of things I can just step outside for as long as I feel comfortable blasting away at zombies before heading back in. Repeat daily until I come up with a plan to escape or get bored enough to blow up myself and as many zombies as I can manage in a blaze of glory.