Scout Handbook

[ManicOppressive]

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/29/Scout_taunt_laugh.png/250px-Scout_taunt_laugh.png?t=20111212001935

What... No, that's... Whatever.

Why Play Scout?

Scouts are a little bit like a Rogue if you stripped away the skill monkey and focused them on combat. They have d8 hit dice, 3/4 BAB, and a surprisingly usable scaling class feature that gives them a very interesting niche on the battlefield.

They also maintain the Rogue's 8 + INT skill point gain, which means they still can be skill monkeys, but they have a little less versatility in class skills than the Rogue.

Rogues are all about positioning, and hemming groups of enemies in for your party to focus down. You get a significant damage boost by literally running circles around your enemy, and you're given a decent array of abilities that let you do exactly that. Scouts are great in campaigns focused more on traveling the world than delving dungeons, because they excel in wide open spaces with freedom to maneuver.

If you've ever played a Rogue but felt a little underpowered in combat, Scout might be a good upgrade.


Normalish color codes apply here, namely:

Red - The equivalent of taking Combat Casting on a Fighter.
Purple - Not great, only really useful if you have a specific reason in mind. More like the equivalent of taking Power Attack on a Sorcerer.
Black - Average. Stuff to consider if you need to fill in gaps, or if you really like the fluff. Picture the Endurance feat on... Well, any character, really.
Blue - Good stuff. Fill your build with blue stuff, and you're off to the races. This is your Fighter's Combat Reflexes, or pretty much any other basic feat you see constantly.
Gold - Absolutely amazing stuff. This stuff is either mandatory to make the class functional, or raises it to whole new levels. Think Fighter's Power Attack, or Monk's ability to take levels in a different class.

[ManicOppressive]

Mechanics

d8 Hit Dice: Not going to be tanking a lot of fireballs, but this is better than the Rogue, and is generally enough to keep you alive since your fighting style precludes facing a lot of full attacks.
3/4 BAB: Eugh, Scout is definitely a class that would benefit from having a full BAB. On the other hand, you're basically never going to be using full attacks, so not having the extra attacks is really not that big of a deal.
Saving Throws: You're usually not the first target in a battle, so Fort and Will are definitely less important for their "Save you from targeted crap" quality than Reflex save is for its "Save you from AoE" quality. Though since you're likely going to be dumping WIS, be careful to avoid Beguilers.
8 Skill Points: Tied with the Rogue for most skill points in the game, Scouts make great skill monkeys. While they lack some of the diversity in class skills that Rogues enjoy, they have no problem maxing everything important.
Armor Class: Between the Dexterity focus of the class and Skirmish's scaling bonus, it gets pretty hard to hit a Scout. Add in Evasion and Uncanny Dodge, and Scouts are actually surprisingly durable even without checking their hit point total.


Class Features

Skirmish: Your bread and butter. Begets the entire playstyle of the scout, and does a pretty good job of encouraging it as well. Whereas a Rogue's Sneak Attack generally requires them to get up close to a target and expose their squishiness, Skirmish encourages you to run the hell away from everything, always, while doing comparable damage. It also boosts AC while you use it, further masking your relatively soft class.
Trapfinding: Honestly, I've never had a lot of use for trapfinding. In my experience, DMs get bored with traps pretty quickly. Still, it's a 1st level ability, so don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Battle Fortitude: Nice to shore up one of your weak saves, but the real benefit of Battle Fortitude is the Initiative boost. If this ever occurred on its own at any level, it would probably be purple, but since it's never the only thing you get it's fine.
Uncanny Dodge: Scout is probably the least interested class that gets this, since it's rare for anything to be hanging out in melee range.
Fast Movement: Ohhhhh, this is nice. It's so much nicer than on the Monk. This is a class that is all about movement, and positioning is always key. With this ability, you can almost keep pace with hasted creatures. With Spring Attack, you can even get the 10 ft movement for Skirmish and then move the equivalent of a normal full move action afterward starting at level 3.
Trackless Step/Flawless Stride: These two abilities are all well and good in theory, but the problem with both is that you can't apply them to the rest of your party. Unless you're actually going out on your own to scout, the fact that someone can't track you won't really help since the Warblade is tromping around in his full plate leaving foot priints the size of small lakes. Flawless Stride is frankly just not broadly useful.
Camouflage/Hide in Plain Sight: Both of these skills would, again, be more useful if you didn't have a party. As is, Camouflage is a lot less useful than it would hypothetically be on a Rogue, since you don't actually get that much benefit from catching enemies momentarily off-guard. Hide in Plain Sight is fine, but you're already so flighty that running is usually more effective than hiding.
Blindsense/sight: Pretty nice abilities. Shame that Blindsight doesn't come til level 20, but it's a good ability all around, especially if your DM likes throwing tricky creatures at you.
Freedom of Movement: Never gonna complain about this class feature. Being grappled by large creatures (read: swallowed by dragons) is always a horrible thing to deal with, and high level Scouts really don't have to worry about it. Worth staying in Scout for 18 levels? Maaaaybe not.

Skills


You have a lot of skill points to use, and surprisingly few skills worth pumping, so get ready to max some skills.

Balance: You get a class feature at 6th level that renders this skill nearly irrelevant. Skip it unless you plan on a circus career.
Climb: Nothing notably positive nor negative here. You're a class that's likely, by nature, to need it I guess, and since you likely won't have a high strength score it's probably worth a few points. Not like you're lacking in skill points, after all.
Craft: Why?
Disable Device: You're probably the only person who can disarm traps, so keep some points in this. Again, I find that most DMs don't use a lot of traps, and Scout is probably non-optimal if your campaign is all dungeons, but still.
Escape Artist: You get a class feature that renders this irrelevant, but not til level 18, and honestly there is really no reason at all for taking Scout past level 17.
Hide: Absolutely mandatory if you want to make use of your later class features. If you're actually scouting (like literally scouting ahead) it's the most useful skill you have.
Jump: See Climb.
Listen/Spot/Search: There's not a lot to say about these three. They're class skills, so keep points in them. They're more often used than every other skill put together, but not having them maxed usually won't hurt you.
Move Silently: Goes along with Hide, and since Fast Movement allows you to cover a lot of ground without running you can still get decent Move Silently checks in. If you're doing solo work, this is just as mandatory as Hide. Being invisible doesn't count for crap if you sound like that damn Warblade I mentioned.
Ride: You can't skirmish while mounted, and your Fast Movement doesn't do anything. Which means you are completely useless while mounted. No, seriously, you are literally less good than the Expert NPC class while mounted. Don't be mounted, ever.
Sense Motive: This is a really weird skill to have since the Scout has no other social skills. Don't bother with it, and let your party face handle it.
Survival: Good skill, but Scout is more of a "Look up ahead" class as opposed to the Ranger's "Piss off into the wilderness for the next eighteen years until this whole "Child Support" thing blows over.
Swim: See Climb.
Tumble: You are moving CONSTANTLY. Unless your DM is nice enough to give you wide open fields, that means you are constantly risking attacks of opportunity. Max. This. Skill.
Use Rope: Again... Why? I don't think I've ever actually used this skill for anything important. It's also DEX based, and you can do it untrained, so... Do that?

CROSS CLASS:

Use Magic Device: You have enough skill points to put some points in UMD. It's CHA based, so you'll never be good at it, but it can't hurt to have it trained so that you can at least try.
Open Lock: Another skill you can't use untrained, but it's DEX based so just put a few points in and rely on your +5.

[ManicOppressive]

Abilities


Pretty easy, honestly. Scout is about as Single-Attribute as it gets.

Strength: Just don't have a penalty. You don't do anything that requires Strength, because you're not likely using 2h melee weapons. 10 is fine.
Dexterity: This powers your entire combat tac. You're going to likely be using ranged combat, and you need the AC, and you like the Reflex save, and you need the Tumble, and just max Dexterity so I can stop this run-on sentence. 16-18, but really, just go 18.
Constitution: Health is nice? I mean, you really don't have problems with attribute dependency, so may as well. 12-16, if that's not too broad.
Intelligence: Skill points are nice. A lot of the skills you use are INT based. You don't really need a lot of points in INT, but you also don't need a lot of points in any attributes other than DEX, so I'd make this your second or third highest. 12-16, depending on CON.
Wisdom: Prioritized higher than Strength because at least it gets a save, but honestly the only reason to put anything in this is for the few skills that use it. 10-12 is fine.
Charisma: I hate dumping Charisma, but the Scout has legitimately no use for it, at all. Not even a single class-skill. 8-10, or as low as you need it to get everything else where you want it.


Racism


Human: Remember that one time you were like "Man I just have too many feats" NO OF COURSE YOU DON'T.
Strongheart Halfling: Dex bonus woo, but -10ft movement speed boo. Having said that, that movement speed is not at all a big deal with Fast Movement, so this stays on the same level of good as humans.
Whisper Gnome: Cheesy as all get out, but incredible. Dex and Con bonuses and bonuses to all of the skills you like, while not losing any movement. SLAs that are increidbly relevant. (Silence? On a class that likes to hide and ambush? HMM YES.) Unlike Rogues, who at least suffer a little bit from the Cha hit, Scouts lose literally nothing with these guys. This is the best choice of race there is, bar none, period.
Halfling: Dex bonus, strength penalty, basically the same level of good as Strongheart only with mediocre racial traits instead of a bonus feat. Not a bad choice by any means though.
Elf: While the Dex is nice, Con is actually the one ability you don't like to lose. Also, low-light vision is a lot less relevant after you get Blindsense. Still, it's a Dex bonus class, so go for it.
Half-Elf: *rimshot*
Dwarf: Pretty much goes for all of the notable subtypes, too. Movement speed penalty, but hey, they can move the same in medium or heavy armor! ... Except your class features won't work, so go back to the actual choices.

There really aren't any LA races worth mentioning. Just play a Whisper Gnome and be thankful no one smacked any of the writers on Races of Stone for not giving it LA +1.

Combat


Ranged: The Scout is built for bow and arrow. You honestly need a good reason to even consider anything else, because ranged attacks are the only way to reliably make good use of Skirmish.

Reach Weaponry: HAVING SAID THAT, if you don't mind the cheese, getting a Spiked Chain works great. Reach weaponry can substitute for range, because you can move in and out of your own range without provoking attacks of opportunity. Just stick to Spiked Chains unless you just need a reason to have a good Strength score. Special call-out to tripping, which is hilarious and infuriating on a Scout, if not necessarily effective.

Two Weapon Fighting: Ugh... You're now in the realm of eating Attacks of Opportunity constantly. Skrimish requires you to move 10 ft, which means Tumble checks to avoid AoO nearly every round. You don't have the BAB to support relying on Full Attacks. At least with TWF you can use light weapons and maintain Dexterity bonuses, but seriously, go back to ranged.

Two Handed Weapons: Hurr durr im use strength based melee combat on dex based movement class! No seriously, don't. You cannot. It will not work. That clever build idea you have is bad.

Mounted Com- NO. GET OUT OF MY GUIDE, RIGHT NOW. THAT'S NOT FUNNY.


Specific Weaponry



Shortbow: Bog standard choice. Not a bad choice. This is the default--the baseline against which all else is compared.

Repeating Heavy Crossbow: If you don't mind the Exotic weapon, this can be pretty nice. Better damage than the Shortbow, and since you're only firing one shot per round you'll be going 5 rounds between reloads.

Spiked Chain: Fun, but cheesy. It puts you more at risk, so you'll want to be sure you're keeping Con in the bonuses, but you can get tripping involved and deal more damage than with either of the basic ranged options.

Longbow: You're not actually proficient with this. I know, right? If you have a natural way of becoming proficient, either via race or via another class, this becomes Blue and can be considered a straight upgrade to the Shortbow.

Bolas: Funny, but not very effective. Just go for a Spiked Chain if you want to do tripping things. Though Skirmish does mean you're dealing a massive amount of non-lethal damage, so that might be hypothetically good if you're trying to avoid killing. In general, keep some on you if you like, but don't rely on them as your main weapons.

Double Light Crossbows: You take an awful lot of penalties on this, but at the same time you can be dealing 2d8 damage per round base, which isn't too shabby. Only consider this if you're ready to commit to it, because a total of -8 and -12 to hit if you don't have feats ready to cover is not tenable.

Crossbow/Light Crossbow/Heavy Crossbow: None of these are worth getting. You have proficiency with Shortbows, and the only reason to go for Crossbows on most characters is a lack of other options.

[ManicOppressive]

Stayin' on Your Feats



Feats are really where the Scout hits their hiccup. See, you need a LOT of them.

Ranged Feats

Crossbow Sniper - While crossbows are never the ideal, this is completely mandatory if you go that route. It gives you extremely high range (functionally the entire battlefield) for skirmish, and lets you apply some Dex bonus to your crossbows. Don't go to crossbow because of this, but don't go crossbow without it.

Rapid Reload - I explicitly included crossbows above that are not full-round reloads every other round because you really can't afford the feat space for this, but if you're dead-set on a crossbow you might want to grab this.

Manyshot - Seeing this black may confuse some players more used to Rogue or Ranger archers, since it's terrible on any character that can just full attack, but it's actually not bad on Scout. You can't apply precision damage with each shot, unless you get...

Greater Manyshot - Which allows you to do just that. It also allows you to hit more than one target, which can be a good substitute for full attacks if your build doesn't emphasize them.

Rapid Shot - A staple for archers, it's essentially the better version of Manyshot if you're not going for Greater Manyshot. There's no rule against it applying precision damage, which means it totally does. In early levels, you will ride this feat like a crutch. Even if you do get full attacks, it's still an extra attack at a good BAB, so it never ceases to be useful.


Improved Rapid Shot - If you think taking a feat for a situational +2 to hit is a good idea, you need a priority adjustment.

Shot on the Run - Basically mandatory. It's spring attack for bows. If you're ranged, you'll need this. Pity about the horrible feat tax to get into it, but a lot of DMs have houserules around the Dodge/Mobility mess, so check with your DM to see if you actually have to take those feats.

Point Blank Shot - is a terrible feat, but you're going to suck it the hell up and take it anyway. It's a prereq for half of this list, so unless you can convince your DM to ignore it you're definitely eating it to play ranged.

Precise Shot - I'll be honest, as a DM, I houserule this feat onto everyone. Firing into melee is a stupid ruleset, and this feat basically just reads "-1 feat on all ranged characters" to deal with it. But yeah, you need it. This also allows splitting weapons, which I'm about to cream my ever loving pants over in the next section, so that's nice.

Far Shot - Completely counter to everything the Scout is.

Woodland Archer - This is one tiny wording issue away from being so gold it would attract Smaug. See, it's still great, but the third tactical maneuver it enables allows you to fire and move while playing hide and snipe. The problem? It allows you to move after the attack. If it allowed you to move before your attack (therefore allowing you to apply Skirmish to your sniping) I would have this feat in gold, bold, and at the very top of the list. As is, all three tactics are still useful, and it gives you some insurance on your Rapid Shots.

Able Sniper - Eh. As mentioned above, there's a fundamental problem with sniping on Scout, which is that you'd be doing more damage running around them like a rabid chicken since you can't skirmish-snipe.

Penetrating Shot - This is situational as all hell, but pretty funny. You only get skirmish on the first target, but it's still extra damage if you think you'll be fighting a lot of hordes.


General Feats

Swift Ambusher - If you are multiclassing to Rogue, this is 150% absolutely unequivocally the best feat ever. This allows you to come very close to just being an outright gestalt between Scout and Rogue.

Travel Devotion - Funny story, I'd actually never heard of this feat before today, somehow. This lets you, for one minute (in a contiguous period, unforunately) per day, move as a swift action. Remember all of that crap about how you can't full-attack? Now you can. This is incredible... Except that you only get it for one fight per day, and even then only for 10 rounds. I love it, but I don't love relying on it for your build to be functional. Take it, use it, but have something else ready. If you want to go dip cleric (you dirty, dirty little boy) you can trade turn undead uses for this, which... might actually be worth dipping cleric on its own. We'll get to that.

Flyby Attack - This is an interesting little case here. If you can grab a magic item that allows flight, or if you're a race that allows it, you can completely ignore that whole mess about Shot on the Run above and take this instead. This is black rather than blue because there aren't a lot of ways I'm really comfortable with to maintain flight constantly, and if you rely on this you're pretty well hosed the moment you can't fly.

Able Learner - Scout lacks in a lot of class skills that Rogue enjoys, so this can be a nice way to keep some of those important skills up. If you multiclass, this will allow you to ignore cross-class stuff as long as it's a class skill for any of your classes.

Desert Wind Dodge - I'm going to mention multiclassing to Swordsage in a minute, and this is a great feat to take if you do. It's straight up better than Dodge, but you can replace Dodge with this later as part of this feat's description, getting a new feat in return, so don't stress about it.

Darkstalker - If you're focusing on your hiding abilities, grab this. Otherwise, give it a miss.

This section is still WIP

[ManicOppressive]

also reserved for when I finish this.

[ManicOppressive]

also ALSO reserved for when I finish this.

[ManicOppressive]

And one last reserved post for good measure. I'm good now.

[Cerefel]

I think Grod the Giant started a scout handbook a few weeks ago. Maybe you should collaborate.

[ManicOppressive]

Oh, if so I missed that. I was just frustrated tonight trying to dig up a back-up of the one lost with the Wizards forum, and decided to take matters into my own hands.

[Sian]

note that if you can make a Tumble DC40 consistently (ideally though some way of taking 10), you can make 10ft steps. Rules for this is in Oriental Adventures and at least one other book which names eludes me atm.

Also, Kobolds are rather competent at Scout, as they can count as tiny whenever they want to (boosting their Hide), have 30ft movement, and the ability of getting any one first level Wiz/Soc spell as SLA 1/day (and 3/day if you use a feat on it)

[AnonymousPepper]

note that if you can make a Tumble DC40 consistently (ideally though some way of taking 10), you can make 10ft steps. Rules for this is in Oriental Adventures and at least one other book which names eludes me atm.

Also, Kobolds are rather competent at Scout, as they can count as tiny whenever they want to (boosting their Hide), have 30ft movement, and the ability of getting any one first level Wiz/Soc spell as SLA 1/day (and 3/day if you use a feat on it)

Alternatively, using a Sparring Dummy of the Master (via UMD to emulate being a monk through any method of your choice to hit the DC) can also accomplish this.

[nedz]

Elves get Longbow proficiency — which might be worth mentioning, at least in passing.

Also, it is viable to build a Scout using Rapier (or similar) with Weapon Finesse and Spring Attack. Damage output is about the same as bow, it's more feat intensive, higher risk, but also slightly more interesting to play. Fun is important.

It's likely campaign dependant, and definitely terrain dependant, but Trackless Step and Flawless Stride are very good if the Scout is, like, scouting. If your Scout doesn't scout then why are you playing this class ? Flawless Stride gives you more movement in difficult terrain, which I guess depends upon how common this is in any game. Camouflage/Hide in Plain Sight likewise.

[ComaVision]

Read through what you have so far. It looks good but it's not that hard to start getting full attacks with a Scout. Travel Devotion is a very accessible method, and other people have already mentioned the Training Dummy and DC 40 Tumble Check.

[Sian]

not to mention good old pounce

[Zaq]

Yeah, I agree with the comments about full attacks. Assuming that you're only getting one attack a round is fine at low levels, but it's a good way to become irrelevant fast at higher levels, so any Scout who wants to matter past level 8 or so needs to start finding ways to get Skirmish on multiple attacks. (The methods are generally pretty well-known by this point, primary among them being Greater Manyshot, Travel Devotion or other swift-action movement, and Pounce, each of which comes with its own pros and cons. That list isn't exhaustive, but I would say that those three tricks are by far the most common.)

When listing class features, you appear to have neglected Evasion. It's as useful on a Scout as on anyone else (comes online later than the Rogue or the Monk, but it still comes online early enough to matter), and I'm pretty sure that you can trade it out for a few other things if you're so inclined.

When discussing stats, I wouldn't say that CHA is automatically red. It's often red, but if you choose to get Travel Devotion by means of a dip in Cleric instead of by burning actual feats on it (which, let's face it, is actually a pretty common choice), having CHA means more Turn Undead uses, which means more uses of Travel Devotion, at which point it becomes rather handy to have some CHA around. Unlikely to be your primary, of course, but neither do you want an 8.

[daremetoidareyo]

When discussing stats, I wouldn't say that CHA is automatically red. It's often red, but if you choose to get Travel Devotion by means of a dip in Cleric instead of by burning actual feats on it (which, let's face it, is actually a pretty common choice), having CHA means more Turn Undead uses, which means more uses of Travel Devotion, at which point it becomes rather handy to have some CHA around. Unlikely to be your primary, of course, but neither do you want an 8.

Building off of this, a fey template (unseelie from Dragon Comp) or killoren (ROW) with the charming the arrow feat (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a) and travel devotion can neglect some of those dexterity points in favor of charisma. Killoren even gets a smite attack that doesn't stipulate the need for melee weapons, and aspect of the hunter grants some sneakin' around bonuses.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think Grod the Giant started a scout handbook a few weeks ago. Maybe you should collaborate.
Yeah, it sank pretty quick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473666-New-Scout-Handbook), for some reason.

Also, I disagree with some of your strategic assertions.

Firstly, you need to full attack. Your damage will be approximately bupkiss without it-- one attack at +7d6 is useless at 20th level. You really should have whole section about this.
TWF is a dead-easy strategy, since all you really need is a one-level Barbarian dip for Pounce, one feat and one item. And it's only DC 15 Tumble check; you'll be fine. And it's not like the penalties are any worse than archery: TWF and Rapid Shot both give you -2.
Tripping is terrible for you, since Skirmish doesn't trigger on AoOs (I found that out the hard way) and Strength is a secondary stat.
By the way, Strength is a secondary stat-- you need it for damage even as an archer, and Dex-to-damage is only possible with a high-prereq feat from a single book.
Mounted Combat is totally worth using if your DM hasn't heard of (or rejects) the errata, as you need precisely no investment to meander around on a horse and shoot arrows at people. At the very least you should specify why.

[AnonymousPepper]

Also, definitely needs a section about prestige classes that advance skirmish damage. There's some to fit every flavor, or alternatively you can put together an optimal set that gets you something stupid like 16d6 skirmish.

Not to mention, Swift Hunter needs its own section because that transforms Scout entirely. Thanks to Favored Enemy, it totally negates one of the major vulnerabilities of a skirmish-focused build - crit immunity; get favored enemy undead, favored enemy elemental, and favored enemy construct, and maybe favored enemy ooze, and you're golden (or just use a combined greater destruction and greater-whatever-the-undead-one-is-called augment crystal for undead and constructs). Oh, and don't forget favored enemy arcanist for bonuses against most creatures (remember, SLAs are arcane) and a significant amount of humanoids in the game, not to mention punching through the crit protection of things like fortification armor and Heart of X spell crit negation so long as its wearer can cast arcane spells.

To build off of what Grod said though, there's also always the Manyshot line. True full attack? No. Good enough? For sure. Deserves to at least be part of a section on multiplying your skirmish dice, along with things like the Splitting and Exit Wound.

[Grod_The_Giant]

along with things like the Splitting and Exit Wound.
Ooh, did not know about Exit Wound. Good to know.

[AnonymousPepper]

Ooh, did not know about Exit Wound. Good to know.

Exit Wound is friggin' hilarious. Behind Force and Splitting, probably my favorite ranged weapon enhancement. Get your positioning right and you clear half the encounter in one go - especially if you've got a source of (quickened?) true strike or some other way of pumping your to-hit for a burst.

Have to have a dose of RAI with it, though, because natural 20s should break the game in half. When I'm GMing, I rule that it's only an auto-hit on the first target.

[Vaz]

In regards to 10ft Steps, the Use Magic Device does not allow you to eulate being a monk, only a class feature, and the Dummy of the Master requires you to actually BE a monk.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ok, I'd really like to know why it's near universal consensus that Whisper Gnome is "cheesy." It swaps str for dex like halfling, and cha for con like a dwarf. Is it the +4 skill bonuses? Seriously? Or is having low-light AND darkvision breaking your game? Maybe it's that it moves at the same break-neck 30 ft speed as...most other races.

"B...but it's a nice race for casters!" Yeah, you know what else is a nice race for casters? PHB Gnomes! Cuts out all the crap Whisper Gnomes get that casters don't care about to retain all mental scores w/o penalty and get an illusion save DC bonus.
It's a great warrior race for a small creature... hold on, I need to stop laughing. Warriors don't want to be small.
But hey, it's nice for rogues and...dex-based (ie, completely worthless instead of merely 99% worthless) monks! Lord knows a synergistic race was all that was keeping those guys from becoming god!

I. Don't. Get. It.
Sorry for the rant, it's not just this handbook. That's my issue, really. I've seen it constantly, the claim that Whisper Gnome is overpowered or should be LA +1, and it's ridiculous. Meanwhile, IME almost everyone plays human because a bonus feat trumps anything else.

In regards to the handbook, 5 ranks in Balance is usually worth it. It gives a Tumble bonus, is required for some decent skill tricks, and allows you, with a 600 gp Boots of Agile Leaping (ie, 900 gp boots applied to some other footwear), to stand from prone w/o provoking AoOs and as a swift action.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Skirmish doesn't trigger on AoOs
Skirmish damage is so overpowered, right? Right? C'mon, somebody back me up!? Ah, WoTC designers, there you are! :smalltongue:

I didn't know about this until now, so I looked it up, and just to be pedantic: you get skirmish damage on your turn, so you still get skirmish damage on AoOs provoked during your turn. That's a very niche situation, but it does mean you can skirmish anyone trying to use celerity to cast a spell during your turn, or something.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ok, I'd really like to know why it's near universal consensus that Whisper Gnome is "cheesy." It swaps str for dex like halfling, and cha for con like a dwarf. Is it the +4 skill bonuses? Seriously? Or is having low-light AND darkvision breaking your game? Maybe it's that it moves at the same break-neck 30 ft speed as...most other races.
Effectively +8 Hide, between the bonus and size, mind you. Twice as many ability boosts as normal, with the penalties to the most easily and often dumped stats in the game. An awful lot of skill bonuses, full speed, and a level 2 SLA. I would hardly call them cheesy, but they're quite strong for LA+0.

EDIT: For reference, every Skirmish method I could come up with:

Travel Devotion
Pounce (either via a Barbarian dip, Sphinx Claws, or Wild Shape)
A glide speed might or might not work-- the action is ambiguous. Ask your GM.
A Carpet of Flying probably works, as long as your GM doesn't rule that it works like a mount. Order it to fly in circles or get a buddy to drive.
DC 40 Tumble check
Greater Manyshot
Sparring Dummy of the Master
Sudden Leap every other turn.
Spring Attack chain
Great Flyby Attack... sort of. Restrictions apply.


And every PrC:

Daggerspell Shaper (sort of. You qualify but don't advance)
Dragon Devotee
Eye of Lolth (again, you can qualify but don't advance. It's great if your DM rules otherwise, though)
Hand of the Winged Masters
Highland Stalker
Peregrine Runner
Unseen Seer
And Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion as extra credit.



Skirmish damage is so overpowered, right? Right? C'mon, somebody back me up!? Ah, WoTC designers, there you are! :smalltongue:

I didn't know about this until now, so I looked it up, and just to be pedantic: you get skirmish damage on your turn, so you still get skirmish damage on AoOs provoked during your turn. That's a very niche situation, but it does mean you can skirmish anyone trying to use celerity to cast a spell during your turn, or something.
Heh. Any way to force those?

(I'm totally not mining this thread to update my guide, no <shifty eyes>. Sorry, ManicOppressive)

[nedz]

Ok, I'd really like to know why it's near universal consensus that Whisper Gnome is "cheesy." It swaps str for dex like halfling, and cha for con like a dwarf. Is it the +4 skill bonuses? Seriously? Or is having low-light AND darkvision breaking your game? Maybe it's that it moves at the same break-neck 30 ft speed as...most other races.

"B...but it's a nice race for casters!" Yeah, you know what else is a nice race for casters? PHB Gnomes! Cuts out all the crap Whisper Gnomes get that casters don't care about to retain all mental scores w/o penalty and get an illusion save DC bonus.
It's a great warrior race for a small creature... hold on, I need to stop laughing. Warriors don't want to be small.
But hey, it's nice for rogues and...dex-based (ie, completely worthless instead of merely 99% worthless) monks! Lord knows a synergistic race was all that was keeping those guys from becoming god!

I. Don't. Get. It.
Sorry for the rant, it's not just this handbook. That's my issue, really. I've seen it constantly, the claim that Whisper Gnome is overpowered or should be LA +1, and it's ridiculous. Meanwhile, IME almost everyone plays human because a bonus feat trumps anything else.

It's favoured class is mundane and it gets spells. Did I need to use Blue text here ?

Actually the Silence(Self only) is rather good for a rogue, in fact all of it's spells are more useful than a standard Gnome. This is the issue I think, especially since spells tend to win out in 3.5

I'm not sure it is all that powerful, it just looks like it is.

[ManicOppressive]

Ok, I'd really like to know why it's near universal consensus that Whisper Gnome is "cheesy." It swaps str for dex like halfling, and cha for con like a dwarf. Is it the +4 skill bonuses? Seriously? Or is having low-light AND darkvision breaking your game? Maybe it's that it moves at the same break-neck 30 ft speed as...most other races.

"B...but it's a nice race for casters!" Yeah, you know what else is a nice race for casters? PHB Gnomes! Cuts out all the crap Whisper Gnomes get that casters don't care about to retain all mental scores w/o penalty and get an illusion save DC bonus.
It's a great warrior race for a small creature... hold on, I need to stop laughing. Warriors don't want to be small.
But hey, it's nice for rogues and...dex-based (ie, completely worthless instead of merely 99% worthless) monks! Lord knows a synergistic race was all that was keeping those guys from becoming god!

I. Don't. Get. It.
Sorry for the rant, it's not just this handbook. That's my issue, really. I've seen it constantly, the claim that Whisper Gnome is overpowered or should be LA +1, and it's ridiculous. Meanwhile, IME almost everyone plays human because a bonus feat trumps anything else.

In regards to the handbook, 5 ranks in Balance is usually worth it. It gives a Tumble bonus, is required for some decent skill tricks, and allows you, with a 600 gp Boots of Agile Leaping (ie, 900 gp boots applied to some other footwear), to stand from prone w/o provoking AoOs and as a swift action.

SLAs are the big thing, honestly. Silence is a great spell. Also, the fact that they have two ability bonuses without a -4 penalty on a single ability, combined with the fact that their penalties and bonuses are really, really nice for Dex characters makes them an optimizer's wet dream.

They also get 30ft/rd movespeed in spite of small size.

I don't think they're by any means completely broken, but I definitely would've given them an LA +1 if I were the one writing RoS.

[Troacctid]

Whisper Gnomes are definitely on the high end of races. I don't know if they'd be worth +1 LA, though. They're more like Lesser Aasimar--a bit too strong for +0, a bit too weak for +1.

[Riculf]

I'm liking this alternate view of the Scout. Looking forward to seeing where it goes and how it interprets the rules like other handbooks have had to do.

[ManicOppressive]

I'm taking a little longer than I expected because, I suspect like most people, I don't actually have an abundance of experience with the Scout. I've only ever played one, and I've only had one in a group I DM'd, so a lot of this is a learning experience for me.

I would love any input from the peanut gallery.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I would love any input from the peanut gallery.
"Don't worry, I did all the work already (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473666-New-Scout-Handbook)?"

Actually, speaking of work: Your insistence on just saying no to Mounted Combat (you might want to specify WHY you need to do that, FYI) raises two questions in my mind:

I notice that the errata only says "while mounted." What's the RAW on having your mount make a single move (which normally wouldn't stop you from full attacking with a bow) and using the Quick Dismount skill use? Can you still full attack?
Are there rules for chariots anywhere in this edition?

[Sian]

Are there rules for chariots anywhere in this edition?


I think Frostburn have rules on Sleds, that explicitly points you towards A&E for rules.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think Frostburn have rules on Sleds, that explicitly points you towards A&E for rules.
...wow, the A&E isn't helpful. The "Ranged Attack" section of the vehicle rules is just a paragraph about weather penalties.

[nedz]

Are there rules for chariots anywhere in this edition?


Not in any edition — they're hard to fit into dungeons — though earlier editions did have Chariot Driver as an NWP.

Also, there is great uncertainty over how they were actually used in combat.

These uses are plausible

As a stable platform for missile troops
As a means of mobility utilising ponies which were too small to ride
As a kind of Jeep, delivering warriors fresh to the front line
In pursuit


Charging enemy lines and fitting scythes not so much.

[Grod_The_Giant]

As a stable platform for missile troops


That would be the goal here, I think-- get the "move and full attack" benefits of mounted combat without technically being mounted.

[nedz]

That would be the goal here, I think-- get the "move and full attack" benefits of mounted combat without technically being mounted.

Still you need a driver, or intelligent ponies, and terrain can be a nuisance. Turning circles are a thing too.