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Ettina
2016-01-19, 08:51 AM
I'm kind of thinking of making up a diety for one of my characters to worship, and I'm wondering what her alignment would be.

Her main thing is an obsession with understanding the inner workings of mortal minds. And how do you learn to understand something? By trying to break it, of course!

She'd obviously use (and grant) a lot of divination-related spells, especially with emphasis on divining stuff about living creatures, and lots of mind-affecting stuff as well. Not so much things like domination, because treating someone like a puppet doesn't tell you much about them. No, she'd be more into charm, fear, mental ability drain/damage, insanity - anything that alters a character's behaviour without removing their free will.

Her attitude to using these spells would be like a scientist lesioning rats. She doesn't care about getting them to do what she wants, instead she'll do a mind-affecting spell, watch the effect, and use divination and mundane questioning of the target to get a really clear idea of how the spell affected them. For example, she might feeblemind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/feeblemind.htm) someone and then give them various simple cognitive puzzles to see precisely what they can and can't do while feebleminded, and also use detect thoughts to listen in on their thought process trying to puzzle it out. Then maybe lift the spell and quiz the guy about what he remembers from when he was affected by it.

So, what would her alignment be? I'm pretty sure she's Chaotic, but is she Evil or Neutral? She doesn't kill anyone (unless they pose a threat to her safety, which is unlikely given that she's a goddess). But she doesn't really concern herself with whether her poking around in mortal's minds causes any suffering, and if she caused a problem she couldn't undo, she wouldn't be too sad about that.

hamishspence
2016-01-19, 08:58 AM
Sounds rather like Wee Jas, who is LN with LE tendencies - and has a habit of abducting mortals and bringing them to her plane, and setting them test after test until they break.

nonevil deities in D&D tend to get away with things that some DMs would force an alignment change on mortal characters for doing.

Berenger
2016-01-19, 09:01 AM
That's horribly evil. :smallconfused:

Strigon
2016-01-19, 09:15 AM
Sounds rather like Wee Jas, who is LN with LE tendencies - and has a habit of abducting mortals and bringing them to her plane, and setting them test after test until they break.

nonevil deities in D&D tend to get away with things that some DMs would force an alignment change on mortal characters for doing.

It wasn't until now that I realized Wee Jas is the GLaDOS of D&D...

goto124
2016-01-19, 09:20 AM
Does Wee Jas give proficiency in using Snark as a weapon?

hamishspence
2016-01-19, 10:08 AM
That's horribly evil. :smallconfused:

The only source I've read that mentions it is 3.0 Manual of the Planes - I'm not sure if other sources do.

This was the quote (or something like it anyway - it took a few moments to track it down online):


Cabal Macabre

Wee Jas, the Witch Goddess of Death and Magic, keeps her realm on Ocanthus. Built on the surface of the boundary ice is a crystalline castle of delicate yet horrifying architecture. It gleams with a pale, heartless light all its own—the only point of light in this otherwise pitch-black layer. On closer examination, a visitor notes that the translucent outer walls of the ornate castle are crenellated with ice sculptures depicting skeletons of every race in the multiverse.

Inside Cabal Macabre, Wee Jas tests spellcasters kidnapped from across the planes, though none ever pass her exams. The penalty for failure is death at the Goddess's hands, though many of her worshipers consider this a great honor.

Wee Jas spends much of her time away from the castle, walking the boundary ice and mentally sifting it for memories of lost magic and the memories of death. Within a quarter-mile of where she walks, the continual bladestorm of Ocanthus is temporarily quelled.

Ettina
2016-01-19, 10:53 AM
Added question re: the rule that clerics must be similar alignment to their god - is that because the gods usually reject followers with different beliefs, or is it an inherent restriction?

Because I can't see this goddess caring if a cleric of hers is Lawful or something, as long as they use mind-affecting powers.

Basically, what she wants from her followers is people she can spy on to observe how the powers they use (granted by her or from other sources) affect their targets. She'll also occasionally give particularly favoured followers quests like 'use confusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/confusion.htm) on six targets, with at least 5 minutes between each casting, and remain within a one mile radius of them until the effect fades'. (She will be observing them throughout the duration of this quest, to see the effect that the chosen ability has on its target.)

She especially likes getting followers who already have mind-altering abilities, especially unusual ones such as monsters' supernatural abilities. They tend to be especially prized because she can use them to learn about a new mind-altering effect.

Red Fel
2016-01-19, 11:42 AM
Added question re: the rule that clerics must be similar alignment to their god - is that because the gods usually reject followers with different beliefs, or is it an inherent restriction?

Technically, it's simply a RAW restriction. Clerics must be within one alignment step, full stop, fill in the reasons as you like.

In my mind, it has more to do with acts of devotion on behalf of the Cleric than willingness to accept a follower on behalf of the deity. Most deities, even the most apathetic, have various holidays, rituals, and traditions dedicated to them. If your faith dictates that once a year you assemble a large meal and throw open your doors to the poor, an Evil character is going to have a difficult time observing that. If your faith dictates ancestor worship and rigid obedience to and respect for your elders, a Chaotic character is going to have issues. And if your faith says that, under the second full moon of the month, a virgin is to be hunted, tortured, and killed, a Good character is going to have problems keeping to church doctrine.

There are no alignment restrictions on merely being a follower of a deity, although these same difficulties would arise. (An LG Fighter, for instance, would have a tough time worshiping the NE Nerull.) But being a Cleric basically requires you to adhere more rigidly to church doctrine, to tradition and practices. I realize that this is oddly at odds with Chaotic characters, whose sense of personal expression and freedom seems quite contrary to the idea of an organized faith, and yet you'll note in most deity descriptions that even Chaotic deities have organized traditions and practices associated with them.

goto124
2016-01-20, 01:59 AM
But being a Cleric basically requires you to adhere more rigidly to church doctrine, to tradition and practices. I realize that this is oddly at odds with Chaotic characters, whose sense of personal expression and freedom seems quite contrary to the idea of an organized faith, and yet you'll note in most deity descriptions that even Chaotic deities have organized traditions and practices associated with them.

The best explanation I can imagine for this, is that their 'traditions' are more habits than organized stuff. For example, I read up on and post in the GitP forums every day. Does this make me un-Chaotic? I say no - I read GitP forums because I happen to like this place!

Also, it can depend on how you define Law and Chaos. If you looked at my extended sig, I think of Law as collectivism and Chaos as individualism. Both of those are tangentially related to being 'organized' or 'disorganized' on a more personal level.

Strigon
2016-01-20, 09:15 AM
The best explanation I can imagine for this, is that their 'traditions' are more habits than organized stuff. For example, I read up on and post in the GitP forums every day. Does this make me un-Chaotic? I say no - I read GitP forums because I happen to like this place!


The way I think of it is that it's simply the nature of deities; you wouldn't call me Lawful for eating and sleeping would you?
(Granted, I am Lawful, but that's not the reason why.)