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View Full Version : Optimization Best Flying/AC Outsider or Dragon forms for Alter Self?



Endarire
2016-01-19, 04:53 PM
Greetings, all!

I'm looking for the best Outsider or Dragon forms for alter self. Once I'm able to cast alter self, I'll be an Aasimar Sorcerer3 (homebrew version) with Reserves of Strength (raises CL cap by 1, 2, or 3). This means my HD maximum is 6 initially then becomes 7 then 8 as I level.

Ravid was a strong choice until I saw its flight is supernatural. Boo.

I'm looking for forms with lots of AC and fast flight of good or perfect maneuverability - preferably both. I also need at least 1 hand for somatic components and a means of speaking for verbal components. No Lantern Archon, though OotS lantern archons can speak.

Checking the SRD, these are my favorite forms so far:
Air Mephit: Small, 30' walk, 60' fly (perfect), 3 NA
[b]Bralani: Medium, 40' walk, 60' fly (perfect), 6 NA
[b]Juvenile Tojanida: Small, 10' walk, 60' swim (capped @60'), 10 NA [Defensive, Swimming - Highest initial AC form!]
Minor Xorn: Small, 20' walk, 20' burrow, 12 NA [Defensive, Burrowing, Small - Best for underground and tunnelling!]
Nightmare: Large, 40' walk, 90' fly (good), 13 NA
[b]Ravid: Medium, 20' walk, 15 NA [Defensive]
Very Young Mercury Dragon (Dragons of Faerun 140): Small, 60' walk, 120' fly (perfect), 5 NA
[b]Very Young White Dragon: Small, 60' walk, 30' burrow, 120' fly (average - capped), 60' swim, 5 NA [All Travel Modes! - Other forms are usually better]
Water Mephit: Small, 30' walk, 40' fly (average), 30' swim, 5 NA [3 movement modes - for rare occasions]

Nohwl
2016-01-19, 06:14 PM
there was a handbook for alter self. you might find something useful in it.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2811.0

Jack_Simth
2016-01-19, 08:02 PM
A Very Young white dragon is small, and gets:
60 ft., burrow 30 ft., fly 150 ft. (average), swim 60 ft, +5 Natural Armor, and an attack routine of Bite / Claw / Claw (note that the bite has reach).

Edit: Oh yes: And if you pick up the Hover feat (Monster Manual) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#hover), then that 150 ft fly speed effectively turns into 75 (Perfect) with a move action.

Chronos
2016-01-19, 08:21 PM
If you're an aasimar, why are you interested in dragon forms?

Anyway, the best AC you're going to get is from a dwarf ancestor (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060704a&page=3), at a whopping +18.

Jack_Simth
2016-01-19, 09:08 PM
If you're an aasimar, why are you interested in dragon forms?
I imagine it's because of the Essence of the Dragon spell.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-01-19, 09:11 PM
Wyrmling mercury dragons are 3 HD with a 200 ft. (perfect) fly speed. Young mercury dragons are 9 HD with a 250 ft. (good) fly speed. I'm pretty sure that no non-epic dragon has a better fly speed, let alone at that age.

The wyrmlings, being tiny creatures with 14 dex and +2 NA, have a base AC of 16, and fire immunity. Very young mercury dragons are small, and get another +3 NA, for a base AC of 18. Young mercury dragons get the same upgrade, for a base AC of 20.

Edit: Dragons of Faerūn is the book here.

Endarire
2016-01-20, 12:31 AM
Wyrmling Mercury Dragons are a consideration for super fast, maneuverable flight. I considered them then dismissed them because their AC was so low.

Very Young White Dragon: Nice find! Thankee! This is a form to consider for its vast number of movement modes, including perhaps Icewalking. Its fly maneuverability is merely Average, making it worthwhile if I'm considering using the other movement forms, too. Considering the other forms I can access, though, I'd probably just pick another form.

Vaz
2016-01-20, 05:46 AM
Isn't alter self limited to 60ft flying anyway?

Chronos
2016-01-20, 09:20 AM
120' flying or 60' nonflying. So even the white dragon is already wasting some speed, and mercury gets you nothing new.