Protecting from Ice Assassins.

[Graypairofsocks]

How would one go about preventing Ice Assassins being made of themselves?

Assume whoever is making it doesn't need material components for it.

[Zanos]

People have to know you exist to make an Ice Assassin of you, presumably.

[GilesTheCleric]

You also need to be a creature for them to make an ice duplicate. If you're dead or a sandwich, then they're all out of luck! I hope your character is a full caster, or else they might have a bit of trouble clearing dungeons while also being a sandwich.

[Inevitability]

If you don't have a corporeal body, presumably the material component just plain doesn't exist, which would prevent people from grabbing it from a SCP.

Eschew Materials would still be an issue, though.

[Psyren]

Have a body made of something expensive - that will defeat both pouches and Eschew.

[Inevitability]

Have a body made of something expensive - that will defeat both pouches and Eschew.

It won't defeat Ignore Material Components, though, which is pretty easy to get at higher optimization levels.

[Psyren]

It won't defeat Ignore Material Components, though, which is pretty easy to get at higher optimization levels.

Yeah but that's Epic - once Epic is in play, even TO goes out the window, you can literally do anything. The game becomes Calvinball/Cops & Robbers at that point and you may as well flick rubberbands at each other as throw dice.

[Cosi]

Yeah but that's Epic - once Epic is in play, even TO goes out the window, you can literally do anything. The game becomes Calvinball/Cops & Robbers at that point and you may as well flick rubberbands at each other as throw dice.

Or, you know, Archmage's SLA ability. You can already be an Archmage by the time you get ice assassin.

[Psyren]

Or, you know, Archmage's SLA ability. You can already be an Archmage by the time you get ice assassin.

So, 205,000 XP plus 10x whatever I'm made of? Isn't that more than a non-epic character would have anyway?

[Cosi]

So, 205,000 XP plus 10x whatever I'm made of? Isn't that more than a non-epic character would have anyway?

Supernatural Transformation.

[Jack_Simth]

How would one go about preventing Ice Assassins being made of themselves?

Assume whoever is making it doesn't need material components for it.

Well, the normal requirements for someone making an Ice Assassin are:
1) Knowledge of the spell
2) Capacity to cast the spell
3) Access to the spell
4) Knowledge of the target
5) Inclination to cast the spell in that manner
6) A piece of the target
7) Time to do it

You've removed 6 from the list in the question, but any of the others can be attacked in various ways.
1) Seek out and remove everyone who knows the spell exists (various divinations + pre-emptive strike).
2) Seek out and remove everyone who has the capacity to cast the spell or make a scroll of the spell (so, all 9th level casters, everything with Wish as an SLA, all Artificers and Warlocks above a particular level, et cetera) (various divinations + pre-emptive strike)
3) Destroy all copies of the spell (various divinations + pre-emptive strike).
4) Arrange for nobody to know about you (Vecna Blooded does this, so arrange to acquire the template then just stay mind-blanked and away from people).
5) Make sure nobody wants you dead that badly (Diplomancy, perhaps).
7) Pre-emptive strike on anyone who might try it (various divinations + pre-emptive strike).

Edit:
Oh yes, there's also "Successfully make the argument to your DM that Mind Blank foils it, as it's clearly a spell effect gathering information about you, then stay Mind Blanked 24/7"
And, of course, an Ice Assasin of you probably does not have Turn Resistance, so keep a high level Cold domain cleric handy (Domain is in Frostburn).

[ExLibrisMortis]

Supernatural Transformation.
It does depend on your DM's definition of 'innate spell-like ability', but yeah, defence against supernatural ice assassin is pretty hard.

You could try being in low-power mode all the time, and only ever using any real actions inside nested time stops (or synchronicity loops). You can use equipment to trigger these loops, like crafted contingent spells or stored PP with bestow power shenanigans. Of course, by the time your enemy is actually making supernatural ice assassins of you, they'll probably be able to provide the relevant equipment, too.

[Psyren]

Supernatural Transformation.

1) 3.0, thus needs approval.
2) How is a spell-like ability from a PrC "innate" anyway?

[Cosi]

1) 3.0, thus needs approval.

Because the DM is going to okay ice assassin and veto 3.0 material. Wait, no, the opposite of that. I'm pretty sure the default CharOp assumption is also full transparency.


2) How is a spell-like ability from a PrC "innate" anyway?

Where is a distinction made about "innate" abilities that would exclude the Archmage's SLAs?

[GnomishPride]

Become a hyper optimized pyro: the Ice Assassin is cold subtype. You're not (usually). Thus, you deal more damage to it than it does to you.

[Jack_Simth]

Where is a distinction made about "innate" abilities that would exclude the Archmage's SLAs?No distinction is specifically made for what "innate" means, hence why ExLibrisMortis mentioned "It does depend on your DM's definition of 'innate spell-like ability'" - any time you run across a non-defined game term, it's up to the DM for what it means.

[Psyren]

Because the DM is going to okay ice assassin and veto 3.0 material. Wait, no, the opposite of that. I'm pretty sure the default CharOp assumption is also full transparency.

T.O. assumes a GM that won't stop you, but also one that you aren't able to beg for favors. Thus, all 3.5 material is assumed as default, but 3.0, third party and homebrew are not.


Where is a distinction made about "innate" abilities that would exclude the Archmage's SLAs?

What Jack said, but also - Archmage is a PrC, thus its abilities can only be added to an already-existing character. They thus cannot be "inborn" by any stretch of the imagination. Whatever definition your GM uses for innate is going to require some contortions to fit Archmage.

[Cosi]

What Jack said, but also - Archmage is a PrC, thus its abilities can only be added to an already-existing character. They thus cannot be "inborn" by any stretch of the imagination. Whatever definition your GM uses for innate is going to require some contortions to fit Archmage.

Conveniently, you're omitting the "natural" definition of innate. In contrast, perhaps, to artificial abilities you get from items or wondrous locations. Including, for example, abilities from PrCs.

[Psyren]

Conveniently, you're omitting the "natural" definition of innate. In contrast, perhaps, to artificial abilities you get from items or wondrous locations. Including, for example, abilities from PrCs.

Synonyms: inborn, inbred, inherent, indwelling, natural, intrinsic, instinctive, intuitive, unlearned. To me, none of those fit a PrC; they barely fit a base class even.

You also skipped over the 3.0 part.

Regardless, if your GM buys that, more power to you - I'm not really interested in a 40-page debate over it. As Jack and ExLibrisMortis pointed out to you, it's DM-dependent.

[Graypairofsocks]

T.O. assumes a GM that won't stop you, but also one that you aren't able to beg for favors. Thus, all 3.5 material is assumed as default, but 3.0, third party and homebrew are not.

I thought 3.0 material was allowed if it wasn't updated to 3.5 somewhere else.

[Psyren]

I thought 3.0 material was allowed if it wasn't updated to 3.5 somewhere else.

"With minor adjustments." What exactly those are, depends on the GM.

[Graypairofsocks]

Anyways for this thread any official 3.0/3.5 material is good.

[Darrin]

Would a Spellblade work here (6000 GP, PGtF)? I'm a little fuzzy on whether Range: Touch spells are considered targeted spells.

[Jack_Simth]

Would a Spellblade work here (6000 GP, PGtF)? I'm a little fuzzy on whether Range: Touch spells are considered targeted spells.
No, but that's because Ice Assassin isn't cast on you at all.

[Darrin]

No, but that's because Ice Assassin isn't cast on you at all.

It's a touch spell. You have to touch the creature you want to duplicate. If the creature has a spellblade keyed to ice assassin, then the spell should get absorbed. Unless a touch spell without a Target: line doesn't count as a targeted spell.

[Jack_Simth]

It's a touch spell. You have to touch the creature you want to duplicate. If the creature has a spellblade keyed to ice assassin, then the spell should get absorbed. Unless a touch spell without a Target: line doesn't count as a targeted spell.
The target of the spell isn't the creature to be duplicated. Read the material component section at the end:

Material component: This spell is cast over the ice statue of the creature to be duplicated. Some portion of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, and so on) must be placed inside the ice statue as it is constructed. In addition, the spell requires powdered diamond worth 20,000 gp.(Emphasis added)

You're touching the statue, not the original. Hence the range of touch. Simulacrum has similar wording.

[Darrin]

You're touching the statue, not the original. Hence the range of touch. Simulacrum has similar wording.

That doesn't make any sense. You're always touching the material components when you cast a spell that requires them. Are there any spells with material components where you don't directly manipulate them? Whether or not the spell has material components has nothing to do with the Range: line in the spell description.

Neither ice assassin nor simulacrum specify what creature or object you need to touch to designate the origin of the spell effect. It's probably convenient to assume that the intention was to touch the duplicate body, but since that's a spell component, it's assumed to be automatically within your reach or the spell fails. If the material components dictated the Range:, then shouldn't all spells with material components be touch spells?

Another oddity... simulacrum has "Range: 0 ft." rather than touch, so I guess that means you have to be in the same square as the creature/object being duplicated.

I know, I'm being pedantic. But merely possessing a piece of a creature as part of the spell components does not automatically mean the target of your spell is within the prescribed range. If the designers had intended that you had to touch the target creature, then just possessing the material component isn't enough. There's nothing in the text that specifies what exactly needs to be within touch or 0 ft. range. As far as I know, there isn't any spell where the Range: line dictates where the material components need to be, which are already assumed to be within easy reach.

Then again, very few spells have a material component that is so large and involves so much preparation.

[Jack_Simth]

That doesn't make any sense. You're always touching the material components when you cast a spell that requires them. Are there any spells with material components where you don't directly manipulate them?
There are spells with material components where you don't necessarily have to directly manipulate them with your fingers, yes. Spider Climb comes to mind; it has to be eaten by the subject, so you don't necessarily need to touch the materials. There's also Fabricate, for which the material component also happens to be the target, and it's Close range. There's probably others.

Whether or not the spell has material components has nothing to do with the Range: line in the spell description.

Neither ice assassin nor simulacrum specify what creature or object you need to touch to designate the origin of the spell effect. It's probably convenient to assume that the intention was to touch the duplicate body, but since that's a spell component, it's assumed to be automatically within your reach or the spell fails. If the material components dictated the Range:, then shouldn't all spells with material components be touch spells?

Another oddity... simulacrum has "Range: 0 ft." rather than touch, so I guess that means you have to be in the same square as the creature/object being duplicated.

I know, I'm being pedantic. But merely possessing a piece of a creature as part of the spell components does not automatically mean the target of your spell is within the prescribed range. If the designers had intended that you had to touch the target creature, then just possessing the material component isn't enough. There's nothing in the text that specifies what exactly needs to be within touch or 0 ft. range.
Range (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range) is defined as:
A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the Range entry of the spell description. A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin. If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.
Ice Assassin doesn't affect a target any more than Summon Monster does. The actual target of the spell happens to also be the material component. It's not unique in that regard.


As far as I know, there isn't any spell where the Range: line dictates where the material components need to be, which are already assumed to be within easy reach.

See Fabricate. Close range, and the target line and the material components are the same thing.


Then again, very few spells have a material component that is so large and involves so much preparation.

D&D is a game of exceptions.

[Graypairofsocks]

If the designers had intended that you had to touch the target creature, then just possessing the material component isn't enough.

They definitely didn't intend for you to touch the creature you are making the Ice Assassin of.
The copy you make wants to kill the original, and the fluff of the spell indicates it is for use in assassination.