Magic Circle + Dimensional Anchor with Fist of Raziel

[KingSmitty]

so the first level of fist of raziel gives you a constant magic circle against evil effect, and the spell description of it says "You can prevent the creature’s extradimensional escape by casting a dimensional anchor spell on it, but you must cast the spell before the creature acts. If you are successful, the anchor effect lasts as long as the magic circle does."

Does the anchor effect stay there forever?

[Fuzzy McCoy]

I don't think you can anchor a dimensional anchor to a fist's magic circle. Having a dimensional anchor be part of the spell only has an effect if the circle is pointed inward, and I'm not sure you can specify that. Even if you could, it surrounds you, so you'd be trapped in with whatever you're capturing (which may be your point). It sounds like it's a case of ask your DM if you can specify whether you can focus your circle inward and how that works.

[Red Fel]

I don't think you can anchor a dimensional anchor to a fist's magic circle. Having a dimensional anchor be part of the spell only has an effect if the circle is pointed inward, and I'm not sure you can specify that. Even if you could, it surrounds you, so you'd be trapped in with whatever you're capturing (which may be your point). It sounds like it's a case of ask your DM if you can specify whether you can focus your circle inward and how that works.

This.

The basic function of Magic Circle, as described in the spell's description, is thus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm):

All creatures within the area gain the effects of a protection from evil spell, and no nongood summoned creatures can enter the area either. You must overcome a creature’s spell resistance in order to keep it at bay (as in the third function of protection from evil), but the deflection and resistance bonuses and the protection from mental control apply regardless of enemies’ spell resistance.
This effect emanates from a single creature touched. In the case of a Fist of Raziel, you would treat the Fist as the "creature touched," the target of the spell.

What you're asking about, OP, is the alternative function of the spell, as follows:

This spell has an alternative version that you may choose when casting it. A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward. When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle. The creature cannot cross the circle’s boundaries. If a creature too large to fit into the spell’s area is the subject of the spell, the spell acts as a normal protection from evil spell for that creature only.

It makes very little sense for a Fist of Raziel to be the target of a spell designed to bind him, particularly because, by necessity, he is not a nongood called creature. A Fist is not a valid target for the alternative version of the spell. And that's the point. The spell's target is a creature touched, and an area emanating from said creature results. The Fist of Raziel is a valid target for the basic function, which enables everyone in the radius to enjoy Protection from Evil. He is not a valid target for the alternate function, which binds a nongood called creature, which he is not.

[ATHATH]

What if you cast PB and summon a Fist of Raziel that happens to be an outsider? Could you bind it with its own Circle?

[Jowgen]

I think Red Fel has to right of it as usual, but I believe there is one thing you can do to sorta-achieve what you want.

I think, as written, you would be able to add the special diagram to the Fist's magic circle against evil effect. A big question would be whether your DM thinks that the Diagram need to fill the entire circle. As written, the only requirement be that it is a "two-dimensional bounded figure with no gaps along its circumference, augmented with various magical sigils", which is something you could draw on a shield.

If you can add it "A successful diagram allows you to cast a dimensional anchor spell on the magic circle during the round before casting any summoning spell. The anchor holds any called creatures in the magic circle for 24 hours per caster level." Taken out of the clearly RAI context, this means that the circle becomes the target of the Anchor and that the Anchor then affects any called creature that enters the circle (although by RAW, for this to work you need to summon at least something on the following round). In essence, by treating the diagram use separate from the the inwards and outwards use, you circumvent the rules Red Fel explained.

Your aura now locks any called creature that enters it in with you. Obviously, this is all very dirty/cheesy and easily DM-vetoable.

[DarkSoul]

It makes very little sense for a Fist of Raziel to be the target of a spell designed to bind him, particularly because, by necessity, he is not a nongood called creature. A Fist is not a valid target for the alternative version of the spell. And that's the point. The spell's target is a creature touched, and an area emanating from said creature results. The Fist of Raziel is a valid target for the basic function, which enables everyone in the radius to enjoy Protection from Evil. He is not a valid target for the alternate function, which binds a nongood called creature, which he is not.

Considering how the binding version of Magic Circle works:


When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle.

The only real outcome I can see from the Fist turning the circle inward is a borderline-masochistic game of Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em Robots. Well, that and the possible loss of exalted status for calling non-good creatures for the specific purpose of beating them up.

[KingSmitty]

currently playing a lesser aasimar, so im looking into ways to keep from being banished.
Thanks a lot for the replies, it seems my question has been pretty well answered!

[DarkSoul]

currently playing a lesser aasimar, so im looking into ways to keep from being banished.
Thanks a lot for the replies, it seems my question has been pretty well answered!

If you're playing a Lesser Aasimar, you're not subject to Banishment anyway, unless you're on a plane other than the Material plane or a transitive plane. If that's the case, though, the human standing next to you is just as much subject to banishment as you are because you both acquire the (extraplanar) subtype.

Lesser aasimars are humanoids, not outsiders. Even full aasimars are native outsiders, which makes them natives (shocking, I know!) of the prime plane, and thus not subject to banishment.

Dismissal (and its big brother, Banishment) doesn't actually care about the outsider type at all. It cares about the extraplanar subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#extraplanarSubtype), which everything gets when it's on a plane other than its own or a transitive plane (those being the Astral, the Ethereal, and the Shadow planes). A demon, an elemental, and a human in Mechanus or Mount Celestia are all extraplanar, and therefore can be dismissed. In the Abyss, demons aren't extraplanar, so dismissal and banishment don't do anything. Being a native outsider means you don't get the extraplanar subtype when you're on the Material plane.

[KingSmitty]

....
Lesser aasimars are humanoids, not outsiders. Even full aasimars are native outsiders, which makes them natives (shocking, I know!) of the prime plane, and thus not subject to banishment....

i see, thanks for clearing that up!