Help for a Tempest sorcerer to Multiclass for some healings

[JohanOfKitten]

Hello !

I'm starting soon in a campaign where we begin lvl1 to end around lvl15. (Out of the Abyss for those who know it).

I really want to make a tempest sorcerer, 'cause I have this character in my mind that would fit perfectly and I wanted to play the metamagic mechanics for this time.
(I'm Half-elf by the way, good for Charisma and our DM clearly advise us not to hesitate to take a race with darkvision)
My group will have a Sun Monk and a Ranger who know well the Underworld.
So we have a group a bit unbalanced, with a lot of DPR and no-one fitting correctly for tanking sometimes or use correct healings.

So I started to think about how my character could evolve. In his background, he shows himself pietous toward Akadi, goddess of wind (Neutral), so I thought it could be interesting to have some levels in cleric.

Sure, it is not the most optimised multiclass choice, it means I will need high Cha AND Wis. But it allows to have access to a lot of buff/debuff spells, to healing spells and i can mix them up with metamagic fine when needed.I think a 4 lvl dip could be fine, to have the first features, lvl 1 and 2 spells, the improvement of abilities + proef in medium armor and shield so I can be more tuff.
(I don't know if a lvl5 or 6 dip is interesting for this build. It will slow down the sorcerer progression for few advantages (I didn't see lvl3 cleric spell worthing losing the possibility to have 5lvl sorcerer spell at the end of the campaign, but maybe I'm worng about it)

Domains available : Tempest, Knowledge or Trickery.
I put trickery out, definitively not my style.
Knowledge could be interesting with some skills and some divination spells, but I don't know if it would be very efficient.
Tempest: well, it works pretty fine with the concept. Wrath of storm and the channel divinity are really good for my build (so he will be fine for DPR in the same time of support), but some things don't work really well : 3 of the 4 domain spells I could have are already given by my main class, so it's almost an empty feature for me. the proef for martial weapons is pointless for me, as I won't fight with steal but with spells, and the proef for heavy armor would be useful if I drop dex as my dump stat and that I up enough my str to be able to wear good armors (which could be very lethal for the first level as Sorcerer, and until I find a decent armor.

So I'm not sure what is the best to do.
I don't need a full optimised character, but I want at least him to have a chance to survive and be useful.

An other possibility would be a 4 dip in bard.
Less buff/debuffs, but pretty much the same amount of healings. A crazy amount of feature to be skill monkey, good synergy with sorcerer about the ability scores.
But it's not tha same flavour : the cantrips would be from nearly the same list than the sorcerer (compared to the cleric cantrips), I will need instrument or a composant pounch for some spells.)


What do you think ?
Is the idea viable ? Or pointless ?

Maybe i'm just overthinking about this and I just need to let it go and see how it goes in game.

[eastmabl]

Multiclassing usually is a bad thing for a casters, but I think that cross-classing sorcerers with other casters makes a whole lot of sense. With cleric, it can be quite delicious - even for a single level dip.

1. Cantrips. You get to know three of them, which get added to your list of sorcerer cantrips. Guidance is great in non-combat situations. I might avoid Sacred Flame because your Wisdom stat is going to be

2. Spells. You don't have a list of sorcerer spell slots which is separate from the cleric spell slots - you get the same set of slots. While you won't be able to prepare cleric spells above 1st level (or the max cleric level you know based on cleric level), you cast those spells at higher spell levels.

For example, if you're a sorcerer 7 / cleric 1, you could only prepare level 1 cleric spells. However, if you want to, you could cast a 1st level cleric spell (like cure wounds) as its 4th level version and heal more.

As for the Tempest domain overlapping too much with the sorcerer spell list - those are just spells that you don't need to learn from your limited sorcerer spell list.

3. Metamagic. Your metamagic works on all your spells, not just your sorcerer spells. Twinning healing spells is pretty nice.

** Note - most of the same points apply to bard as well, and you don't need to focus on another spellcasting stat.

I wouldn't go too far out in multiclassing, because it eats too much into your spell progression (out to 9) and sorcery points.

[Falcon X]

I'm not sure what to recommend, but I can share my experience as a Tempest Cleric 1/Wizard 1.

I was immediately more survivable at a low level because I could wear heavy armor. Cure wounds and Bless on my spell list, as well as permanently prepared Thunderwave gave some very nice spells. At low levels, these were my go-to spells, and they were great for our no-healer party. Cure Wounds also made me a guy everyone liked, especially when I started saving the lives of government officials with it.
The Tempest cleric's Wrath of the Storm never came in as handy as I thought it would, but I still hold that it's a good tool in my belt.
Extra cantrips was also very nice.

If you did this, don't worry about increasing your WIS. Bless and Cure Wounds aren't effected much by them. Also, all you need is a single level. Don't go overboard.

[Oramac]

Is the idea viable ?


Totally viable. In fact, this is exactly the character I'm playing in Out of the Abyss in Adventure League RIGHT NOW. I'm playing him as a Lightning/Thunder/Ice/Water caster who started life on a ship. See below (currently level 5):

Cade Stormchaser

Started as a Storm Sorcerer. (for proficiency in Con saves)

Took 2 levels of Tempest Cleric.

Continuing on for 17 more levels of Storm Sorcerer

Race: Half-Elf
Background: Sailor; has a full-sleeve of tattoos on his right arm, and his Arcane Focus is magically tattoo'd into his right hand (with DM approval).

Stats:
Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 9
Wis: 14
Cha: 17

HP: 34
AC: 17 (with a shield and Chain Shirt; up to 19 with half-plate, before any magic items, and without the Shield spell)

You get the awesome combination of Chromatic Orb (or any Lightning/Thunder spell) and the Tempest Channel Divinity for max damage. Plus medium armor/shields, and all the metamagic shenanigans.

The first ASI will even out Int/Cha so I don't have a penalty on Int checks, and an even number in Cha.

[Socratov]

I'd multiclass into lore bard, Bards get healing spells on their list, cast charisma based (it's their prerequisite, so that's easy enough) and if you multiclass to lvl 6 of lorebard you get to choose 2 spells form whatever list you want, as long as you can cast that level. It also gets you access to vicious mockery (literally insulting people to death, fun on enemies, even better on close friends) and some other grand goodies that bard has to offer (cutting words seems viable). In the end you could play like a very metal storm [insert instrument]player, or go for cultured and be seeking to act in the Tempest as the mage Prospero, ever trying to make a better Prospero and going so far as method acting...

[JohanOfKitten]

Thanks for your answers !


it seems that first levels can be great !
I looked the second lvl cleric spells to see if it's interesting to go deeper in cleric than just 1 or 2 levels.
Some spells can be useful, like spiritual weapon or augury, but the one that make me hesitate is Silence.

A silence zone, with the party caster able to do subtle metamagic spells, can really save the day against enemy casters. The down side is that it immunes against my thunder damages, but I still got lighting.
But does it worth to go to cleric 3 (and maybe cleric 4 because it's so close of the abilities improvement) ?
:smallsigh: I think I will take my book tonight to build to possible futures (let say sorc 8/cleric2 and sorc6/cleric4) to make my mind.


Anyway, it's nice to see a storm brother Oramac !
If you're already lvl5, it's a good sign for me to survive :smallamused:


Socratov : Yes, the healings are quite as good with a bard when we stick to low levels as I will (except for life cleric, but they're not an option here). And it's maybe better, if I combine song of rest for the short rest and the curewound spell being based on charisma...

Hmm... So much choices xD

[Oramac]

Thanks for your answers !


it seems that first levels can be great !
I looked the second lvl cleric spells to see if it's interesting to go deeper in cleric than just 1 or 2 levels.
Some spells can be useful, like spiritual weapon or augury, but the one that make me hesitate is Silence.

A silence zone, with the party caster able to do subtle metamagic spells, can really save the day against enemy casters. The down side is that it immunes against my thunder damages, but I still got lighting.
But does it worth to go to cleric 3 (and maybe cleric 4 because it's so close of the abilities improvement) ?
:smallsigh: I think I will take my book tonight to build to possible futures (let say sorc 8/cleric2 and sorc6/cleric4) to make my mind.


Anyway, it's nice to see a storm brother Oramac !
If you're already lvl5, it's a good sign for me to survive :smallamused:


Socratov : Yes, the healings are quite as good with a bard when we stick to low levels as I will (except for life cleric, but they're not an option here). And it's maybe better, if I combine song of rest for the short rest and the curewound spell being based on charisma...

Hmm... So much choices xD

Thanks! I'm glad someone else is giving the Storm a shot too!

IMO, more than 2 levels of Cleric isn't worth it, but don't let me stop you if that's how you want to play it. Gust of Wind and Shatter are both on the Sorcerer spells list too, so you can get them anyway (and they work thematically).

Plus, if you go more than 2 levels of Cleric, you can't get either of the flight Capstones (assuming the character gets that far).

[WickerNipple]

I also wouldn't do more than 2 levels of cleric.

Oramac has the way of it: Start Sorcerer, take two levels of Tempest Cleric, then Sorcerer for the rest of your career.

And definitely don't worry about the Tempest spells being available to Sorcerer. That's two spells you don't have to waste learning with your very limited Sorc spells known.

[joaber]

go bard, you probably don't have a good Wis modifier to heal as cleric. And there is all the utilities of the bard to.
get healer feat for heal off combat without spend spellslots.

[Skylivedk]

Go bard!

Bardic inspiration and healing word with your charisma modifier :)

[Oramac]

go bard, you probably don't have a good Wis modifier to heal as cleric. And there is all the utilities of the bard to.
get healer feat for heal off combat without spend spellslots.

Having played it, the healing really isn't too bad. Most of the time you won't even need the healing spells. When you do, the 14 in Wis gives you a +2 mod, which isn't terrible.

Tempest Cleric is more thematically appropriate, though I can see how the Bard would be mechanically superior. I suppose it's personal preference. For me, I'm really enjoying the Tempest Sorcerer build.

[JohanOfKitten]

And definitely don't worry about the Tempest spells being available to Sorcerer. That's two spells you don't have to waste learning with your very limited Sorc spells known.
They're not just available, they're free known spells for the storm sorcerer.
Therefore, both classes allow me to use thoses spells without burning my Known or Prepared spells.

But that a minor inconvenience. When you have two gifts that are the same, you tend to forget that you receive gifts at the first place !


About healings :
From my calculations, the difference between Bard 2 / Cleric 2 is low, as though the bard is best. (Yep, strange to imagine some Elan-like being more efficient than a durkon-like... :smallconfused:)
The bard version would heal +1HP per spell from lvl2 to lvl5, +2HP from lvl6 to lvl9 and +3HP from lvl10 to lvl13... And have the rest song to improve healing by short rest !
Damned !


Hard to choose, but I think I will stick with cleric2. It'll be more roleplay for my background and with more flavour in the game, even if it will be clearly less optimized.

Thanks for your advices guys !

[WickerNipple]

They're not just available, they're free known spells for the storm sorcerer.
Therefore, both classes allow me to use thoses spells without burning my Known or Prepared spells.


Then you're using the UA version of the Storm Sorcerer which was a playtest of the class.

The release version of the class in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide does *not* have that bonus spell list.

[Oramac]

Thanks for your advices guys !

Sure thing! I'm a little jealous of playing the UA Storm sorcerer. Mine is in adventure league, so I can't use the bonus spells.

Have fun!!

[JohanOfKitten]

Then you're using the UA version of the Storm Sorcerer which was a playtest of the class.

The release version of the class in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide does *not* have that bonus spell list.

ouch
Good to know.

My DM said it was available for the campaign, so I check on internet. I didn't know there was different versions.

Hum, I need to talk to him, but i fear that he was talking about the SC adventure guide.

[Oramac]

ouch
Good to know.

My DM said it was available for the campaign, so I check on internet. I didn't know there was different versions.

Hum, I need to talk to him, but i fear that he was talking about the SC adventure guide.

I made the same mistake before I broke down and bought the SCAG. Either way, I'm sure it'll be a blast! (pun intended)

[WickerNipple]

ouch
Good to know.

My DM said it was available for the campaign, so I check on internet. I didn't know there was different versions.

Hum, I need to talk to him, but i fear that he was talking about the SC adventure guide.

Probably. Other than some slight wording differences they are exactly the same class except they cut the expanded spell list - that's just gone.

Otherwise the only change I've noticed is a clarification on Wind Soul: "Once you reduce your flying speed in this way, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest."

[bid]

For example, if you're a sorcerer 7 / cleric 1, you could only prepare level 1 cleric spells.
2 actually (Wis13 + level)

But yeah, bard has easier stats than tempest.