Let's discuss Wizards and cool things they can do

[Segev]

I am going to be playing a 5e game soon, and I'm looking hard at wizard. I've got a lot of 3.5 experience, but a lot of assumptions I might make from 3.5 would be invalid in 5e. If race is important, the only ones I'm considering are Halfling, gnome, and I'd look at elf but for campaign-specific reasons that's a no-go. (I find myself curious if they're still a "good" wizard race, though, so if there are elf-specific tricks that are interesting, I'd be amused to read them.)

I haven't settled on a School, yet, though the fact that I doubt we'll reach level 14 means that I am disregarding level 14+ class features. Necromancy does have a really nice 6th level ability, making those minions very, very nice. Illusion's first power - getting sight and sound out of a single minor illusion - is nifty. Conjuration's ability to create items looks interesting, but I'm not sure if it's really as good as I think it is.

Are there any combos, spell choices, or neat tricks that people feel like discussing?

[saeval]

I suggest making a gnome illusionist who literally makes puns. Like a Barrier of bears.

[gfishfunk]

The more flexible your GM, the more flexible your spell list should be.
- Illusion spells are fantastic - to the extent that your GM allows it to be fantastic.
- Divination spells can be really cool - to the extent that your GM can think through what he wants to tell you.
- Necromancy, Evocation, and Conjuration are obvious: good choices for straight damage.
- Transmutation and Enhancement are great, too, for the ability to manipulate things.

[Socratov]

To me two wizard traditions stand out:

Apart form spells the class features must have it going for the character. To me the most fun and interesting abilities are that of the diviner and the illusionist:

The diviner gets (greater) portent which lets you roll 2d20 each long rest and you get to use those in place of a rol that day, whatever roll by you, party members or enemies. Think about it this way: twice per day you get to tell fate, luck and whatever to sit down and suck it while you dictate what's going to happen. At lvl 14 you get a 3rd use of the ability.

If that doesn't get you frothing at the mouth with possibilities then you might like the Illusionist who gets realer illusions as the gets higher level. At lvl 14 his illusions are pretty much as real as they can get. So real, in fact that they are as far as the game is concerned. You get to make stuff up on the fly, literally.

[MaxWilson]

I am going to be playing a 5e game soon, and I'm looking hard at wizard. I've got a lot of 3.5 experience, but a lot of assumptions I might make from 3.5 would be invalid in 5e. If race is important, the only ones I'm considering are Halfling, gnome, and I'd look at elf but for campaign-specific reasons that's a no-go. (I find myself curious if they're still a "good" wizard race, though, so if there are elf-specific tricks that are interesting, I'd be amused to read them.)

I haven't settled on a School, yet, though the fact that I doubt we'll reach level 14 means that I am disregarding level 14+ class features. Necromancy does have a really nice 6th level ability, making those minions very, very nice. Illusion's first power - getting sight and sound out of a single minor illusion - is nifty. Conjuration's ability to create items looks interesting, but I'm not sure if it's really as good as I think it is.

Are there any combos, spell choices, or neat tricks that people feel like discussing?

On phone so short shrift but here's a few ideas for Necromancers:

Put Mage Armor on the Moon Druid or your own air elemental.

Stinking Cloud or Cloudkill on top of your own zombies, since they are immune to poison, and enemies have to take opportunity attacks to get out. Even better if you make your zombies grapple first.

Grim Harvest at 2nd level gives you back 9 HP per kill with Vampiric Touch. Great for Fighter/Necromancers in plate armor. Also, spells like Fire Shield and Evard's Black Tentacles can trigger Grim Harvest multiple times per round.

Planar Binding lets you turn gold into power. Who cares if you can't buy magic items? I'll take thirty air elemental please.

Mass suggestion can buy you mercenaries.

Magic Jar into the body of a weretiger, if you can find one.

True Polymorph a dragon/whatever into a Mummy Lord and then take control via Command Undead. Obviously you have to find high-CR creature first. If all else fails you can Gate in a demon and polymorph that--but in most campaigns you shouldn't have trouble finding something during normal play. You may want to Feeblemind it before trying to Command it. You can heal the Feeblemind afterwards.

Wall of Force is a fantastic no-save disabler for tough enemies. Segments the combat so you can defeat them in detail. Don't forget to ready actions for when the wall drops, because the bad guy sure will.

[Segev]

Interesting thoughts there, thanks. I do like the Illusionist's 14th level ability; sadly, I am unsure we'll reach that level in this game, so I won't make decisions based on those powers.

I do question why, for the necromancer in particular, mage armoring the moon druid is a good tactic. Or is it just a good tactic overall and necromancers are likely to have the spell?

[Socratov]

Interesting thoughts there, thanks. I do like the Illusionist's 14th level ability; sadly, I am unsure we'll reach that level in this game, so I won't make decisions based on those powers.

I do question why, for the necromancer in particular, mage armoring the moon druid is a good tactic. Or is it just a good tactic overall and necromancers are likely to have the spell?

Well, most beast forms have really lousy AC and since the Moon Druid is generally the tank (as he literally has HP to burn) It's a good idea to help him tank and keep his spell concentration for better stuff that generally is better for hte group as a whole (as his version of mage armour is concentration and mage armour is not).

[JumboWheat01]

Some props need to be given to Transmutation. Sure, for the most part, its benefits aren't the most exciting or amazing, or really game changing. But there is one thing to note, the Transmuter's Stone. Wizard's are supposed to be Crazy Prepared, and if you know what you're going to encounter, you can make a stone that provides resistance to that element, which you can give to another.

Or how about this, expecting a lot of archers and the high possibility of being hit? You can make your Transmuter's Stone to give you proficiency in Con saves without "wasting" a feat (or indeed, if feats aren't available.) This makes it MUCH easier to hold onto your concentration so you can keep those kind of spells up.

And in the end, you can even use your Transmuter's Stone to bring someone back from the dead. Your cleric go down? Bring them back. Big Stupid Fighter bites the dust and your raiser's busy? Bring them back. Sure, you lose the passive benefits until you spend 8 hours making a new one, but living allies help keep the wizard alive.

It's not the most amazing school, but it plays into a more supportive wizard role.

Between Gnome and Halfling, well, Gnomes are probably the defacto wizard race, with their +2 to INT, advantage at INT, WIS and CHA saves against magic, and darkvision can be quite handy for reading a scroll in darker conditions. Halflings do have their moments, though, and Lucky is absolutely amazing.

[Vogonjeltz]

I am going to be playing a 5e game soon, and I'm looking hard at wizard. I've got a lot of 3.5 experience, but a lot of assumptions I might make from 3.5 would be invalid in 5e. If race is important, the only ones I'm considering are Halfling, gnome, and I'd look at elf but for campaign-specific reasons that's a no-go. (I find myself curious if they're still a "good" wizard race, though, so if there are elf-specific tricks that are interesting, I'd be amused to read them.)

I haven't settled on a School, yet, though the fact that I doubt we'll reach level 14 means that I am disregarding level 14+ class features. Necromancy does have a really nice 6th level ability, making those minions very, very nice. Illusion's first power - getting sight and sound out of a single minor illusion - is nifty. Conjuration's ability to create items looks interesting, but I'm not sure if it's really as good as I think it is.

Are there any combos, spell choices, or neat tricks that people feel like discussing?

I'll focus on the early game (i.e. the first few class abilities):

Abjuration - Makes you a little less fragile, later can be used to protect your allies.
Conjuration - Useful for forging keys those jailer keys or teleporting out of prison.
Divination - Get out of jail free cards, good for any emergency.
Enchantment - Get what you want. If you play a strong wizard, you could kidnap enemies using this. (Basically stun them, then pick them up and carry them off).
Evocation - No guilt aoe
Illusion - Useful or Useless as your imagination (and your DM's potential ability to follow the rules) allows
Necromancy - Potentially worthless depending on how NPCs react to the undead (i.e. with extreme prejudice).
Transmutation - Good for ripping off shopkeepers, transmute a bunch of wooden nickels into silver and then get while the getting is good.

[Flashy]

It's not the most amazing school, but it plays into a more supportive wizard role.

Plus at 10th level you can pretend to be a Druid!

[MaxWilson]

Interesting thoughts there, thanks. I do like the Illusionist's 14th level ability; sadly, I am unsure we'll reach that level in this game, so I won't make decisions based on those powers.

I do question why, for the necromancer in particular, mage armoring the moon druid is a good tactic. Or is it just a good tactic overall and necromancers are likely to have the spell?

I was typing quickly on my tiny phone so didn't have a good way to call out general wizard advice separately from necromancer-specific advice. A lot of the things I typed are good for any wizard; only the undead-specific combos and Grim Harvest are Necromancer-only.

[Segev]

Is anything the Illusionist can do before level 14 actually a strong improvement over what a non-Illusionist who casts illusion spells can do? How good is the improved minor illusion?

The transmuter has some interesting stuff, but sadly the best uses for its early powers seem to be dishonest dealing (useful only for a particular kind of character) and, potentially, breaking things (turn those iron bars to wood and then get the fighter to chop them up).

The necromancer's big thing is the level 6 ability; it makes minionmancy more effective and minions more powerful. It is pretty cool, though I'm not sure about it for this particular character.

And yeah, the divination thing is scary good for generic "I'm just better than my foes" sorts of things. It also has, potentially, more spells/day than other wizards, if it's liberal in its divination use.

[gfishfunk]

Transmutation - Good for ripping off shopkeepers, transmute a bunch of wooden nickels into silver and then get while the getting is good.

I was thinking that this would be a great match with a woodworker, as you can take many different types of materials, change it into wood, and then whittle it into the desired shape. With just a little bit of creativity, it is potentially very strong, and you can change many things into wood.

Imprisoned? Turn the bars into wood and break them down or burn them.

Need some tools? Take a branch, whittle into the right shape, change it into metal.

Think that you are going to go up against a lycanthrope? Change someone's weapon into silver.

[Dalebert]

I'd say the benefit of an elf would be having the int bonus, an extra cantrip, and some weapon proficiencies so you can attack with a short sword instead of a dagger and you can use a longbow and usually do more damage in levels 1-4 than you could with a cantrip.


Is anything the Illusionist can do before level 14 actually a strong improvement over what a non-Illusionist who casts illusion spells can do? How good is the improved minor illusion?

I'd say "meh" unless someone can give me ideas I hadn't though of. Visually, Minor Illusion can only make an object and most DMs will rule that it can't be moving in any way. I can think of uses for that and I can think of separate uses for an audible illusion. I just can't for the life of me think of many cases where they can be combined in a particularly useful way. A music box that's stuck so it can't move? A ticking clock? Okay, I guess, but what context would make such things useful?

[Shining Wrath]

Gnomes are the default wizard race. +2 to Int (only race with that) and advantage on saves versus magic for when someone tries to fight spells with spells.

Next best is High Elf. +1 to Int and you get an extra cantrip, and there's never been a wizard who didn't want more spells he or she could cast at-will.

Halflings are not a "standard" choice, because they get no intrinsic bonus to Int; however, they get Lucky which is amazing for anyone, and they do get Dexterity which is probably the best ability score for 5e.

[JumboWheat01]

I was thinking that this would be a great match with a woodworker, as you can take many different types of materials, change it into wood, and then whittle it into the desired shape. With just a little bit of creativity, it is potentially very strong, and you can change many things into wood.

Imprisoned? Turn the bars into wood and break them down or burn them.

Need some tools? Take a branch, whittle into the right shape, change it into metal.

Think that you are going to go up against a lycanthrope? Change someone's weapon into silver.

I'll admit, I never thought of Transmutation from an artistic point of view. I like it.

[gfishfunk]

Is anything the Illusionist can do before level 14 actually a strong improvement over what a non-Illusionist who casts illusion spells can do? How good is the improved minor illusion?


I'd say "meh" unless someone can give me ideas I hadn't though of. Visually, Minor Illusion can only make an object and most DMs will rule that it can't be moving in any way. I can think of uses for that and I can think of separate uses for an audible illusion. I just can't for the life of me think of many cases where they can be combined in a particularly useful way. A music box that's stuck so it can't move? A ticking clock? Okay, I guess, but what context would make such things useful?

Some ideas:

A chest with muted cries coming from within.

A rock with sounds of breathing coming from the other side.

A closed door with an audible voice saying through it, "Don't bother me right now! I'm busy!"

A crystal clear pool of water containing a sword with audible angelic chanting.

An axe laying on the ground with someone saying "This is not an illusion."

[Hudsonian]

A suit of armor in the distance saying "they're over here!"

A rock that lands on you with "sqkuik!"

A ballistae in the corner ratcheting back to shoot

A shadow of a woman on the wall shouting "I'm not gonna wait forever!" (not combat related)

A pair of wings on your back with the accompanying "ah ah aaaaaaah!" of heavenly voices

A box across the room that says, "Maybe they won't see me."

Pothole in the street the screams when creatures come within 3 feet.

A statue of the Thinker going "I'm thinking, I'm thinking."

An illusion of a sheet with black holes for a mouth and eyes making ghost noises.

[Socratov]

Only 2 things can nerf an illusionist: a grumpy DM and a lack of imagination. Illusionists make their illusion sells better. They shine at lvl 14 before that they lack a little, but certainly aren't bad by any means. I have a diviner in the pipeline that ahs the lucky feat and will use both the feat and portent to tell reality to sit down and shut up, especially at low levels.

It might not look like much but portent is really fun, no matter what you roll at the start of your day.

[MaxWilson]

Is anything the Illusionist can do before level 14 actually a strong improvement over what a non-Illusionist who casts illusion spells can do?

A non-illusionist at 11th level can create permanent Major Images and animate them with his action as necessary: he can make the illusionary Balor stalk around the room, and the illusionary copy of himself negotiate, and the illusionary wall move to cover a new location. But he has to think of these things in advance or else spend a new 6th level slot.

An illusionist can have one permanent Major Image that he keeps near him most of the time (and more cached in known locations), and repurpose that illusion at will using Malleable Illusion.

The upshot is that by 11th level, an illusionist can have virtual at-will illusion capability as long as he is willing to babysit one illusion enough to make it keep up with the party. I imagine him giving it a name and a personality and then using it to do most of his interaction with the party in the 3rd person--sort of a creepy puppeteer vibe.

[Segev]

An illusionist can have one permanent Major Image that he keeps near him most of the time (and more cached in known locations), and repurpose that illusion at will using Malleable Illusion.

The upshot is that by 11th level, an illusionist can have virtual at-will illusion capability as long as he is willing to babysit one illusion enough to make it keep up with the party. I imagine him giving it a name and a personality and then using it to do most of his interaction with the party in the 3rd person--sort of a creepy puppeteer vibe.

Hm. I'll have to look at major image and malleable illusion again; I didn't see that combination.

Anything interesting that Malleable Illusion can do with lower-level illusion spells (that wouldn't be reasonably replicated by a non-Illusionist with the same spells)?

Is there a reason for the combination sight and sound from minor illusion over just casting it twice? The examples above could've been achieved, by and large, with two instances of it. (I think you can have a number of them active at once, can't you?)

[Dalebert]

(I think you can have a number of them active at once, can't you?)

Nope. You can only have one instance of it at a time.

[Segev]

Nope. You can only have one instance of it at a time.

Ah, that would be the reason it's a defining power, then.

[JackPhoenix]

Gnomes are the default wizard race. +2 to Int (only race with that) and advantage on saves versus magic for when someone tries to fight spells with spells.

Next best is High Elf. +1 to Int and you get an extra cantrip, and there's never been a wizard who didn't want more spells he or she could cast at-will.

Halflings are not a "standard" choice, because they get no intrinsic bonus to Int; however, they get Lucky which is amazing for anyone, and they do get Dexterity which is probably the best ability score for 5e.

vuman can also get +2 int, if he uses the feat for Observant or Keen Mind

[darkrose50]

Light + Yo-yo = RAVE

[Segev]

I was looking through the Illusion spells in the PHB for ones that work with the 6th level Illusionist class feature, and realized two things:

1) Illusory script is a valid spell to modify
2) It doesn't allow a save in 5e

You can make psychic paper. Especially if combined with careful prompting and detect thoughts. That, and the ability to make a magic mouth that you can have say whatever you want on any trigger you want has me sold on the Illusionist 6th level power, I think.

The major image trick looks cool, too; I also notice that it doesn't place a limit on how many of those you can have active at once, unlike minor image (which ends if you cast another one).

I wonder; can you use minor image plus the 6th level modification ability to make your minor image do things like carry on conversations for you?