Gish questions

[Warrnan]

A few questions. What build would you typically use for an archer gish? I'm thinking this:

Wizard6 w/ militia feat
3 eldritch knight
2 arcane archer
Abjurant champion 5
EK7

I would take smiting spell at low levels. Does this seem like the best way to make use of the low tier arcane archer barring the use of pathfinder? Is smiting spell worth it?

[Temotei]

There are a few archer gishes here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?284283-Piggy-Knowles-Archer-Build-Thread) that might interest you. Archer gishes are weird because they tend to not get +16 BAB and 9th-level spells, unlike most melee gish builds, but at least a few of the builds in that thread would probably be called gishes.

[Cerefel]

Another good way to make an archer gish is by basically building a skirmish gish. Something like
scout 1/bard 4/unseen seer4/swiftblade 1/sublime chord 2/swiftblade 5/abjurant champion 3
You end up with a bunch of skirmish dice and still hit the benchmark.

[John Longarrow]

Most people don't mix spell casting and Arcane Archer. The pClass is pretty horribly designed since, as its a class centered around putting spells into arrows IT DOESN'T ADVANCE CASTING.

[nedz]

Most people don't mix spell casting and Arcane Archer. The pClass is pretty horribly designed since, as its a class centered around putting spells into arrows IT DOESN'T ADVANCE CASTING.

But a 2 level dip can be OK

[Warrnan]

Ok. To clarify, I'm trying to make the "not viable, yet classic" idea of the arcane archer. I'm perfectly ok with cutting the class out completely as long as I can snipe people with long distance arrows of Magic doom, as if duskblade was ranged and more optimized.

[Grod_The_Giant]

A bard based gish with Dragonfire Inspiration might do the trick? Full casting with Sublime Chord and fistfuls of magic damage dice with every arrow.

[Warrnan]

I indeed have an archer bard build that does exactly that. Very cool. Thanks everyone. More ideas are greatly appreciated!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Ooh, another idea: Duskblade/Bloodstorm Blade-- as far as I can tell, Thundering Throw should work with Arcane Channeling. Use javelins (maybe from that one endless quiver), take Far Shot and call yourself Zeus.

(Maybe something like Duskblade 4/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 2/Duskblade +5/Bard 1/Sublime Chord 2/Abjurant Champion 5, for a final BAB of +18, CL 16 (20 with Practiced Spellcaster, which you'll probably want) and 8th level spells. Potentially splash Sand Shaper in there for variety at the cost of another point of BAB. Hit someone in the face with a greatsword and set 'em dancing. Or channel teleport effects through javelins and find some sort of pink-skinned elf subrace (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c8/af/e5/c8afe51b39cd87d85bbaca7dc2378bc5.jpg))

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, you could play up the elf side a ton.

Grey elf Wizard 6 / Rauthar 3 / Abjurant champion 1 / Arcane archer 2 / Abjurant champion 4 / Something X

You lose only 2 Spellcaster levels this way, so you can hit 9th level spells. Your bab suffers a bit.

[Darrin]

Hmmm. How about:

Bard 7/Eldritch Knight 1/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 2/EK +8
Feats: Militia (1st), PB Shot (3rd), Precise Shot (6th), WF Longbow (8th), {Open} (9th/12th/15th/18th)

9th level spells, Imbue Arrow, and BAB +17.

[GreyBlack]

A few questions. What build would you typically use for an archer gish? I'm thinking this:

Wizard6 w/ militia feat
3 eldritch knight
2 arcane archer
Abjurant champion 5
EK7

I would take smiting spell at low levels. Does this seem like the best way to make use of the low tier arcane archer barring the use of pathfinder? Is smiting spell worth it?

Just curious, but why Abjurant Champion 5? By my math, you're, first of all, going to ECL 23 instead of the standard 20. Secondly, you're losing out on 3 caster levels (1 from EK, 2 from AA) in this build, putting you at 17 caster level (I'm assuming that you meant EK4 for the last part), compared to your 14 BAB?

[DarkSonic1337]

Abjurant Champion is just a great chasis and really easy to enter. Most just use it as filler instead of doing more Wizard levels or Eldritch Knight.

[ATHATH]

Warlock 20

Fluff your EBs as arrows.

[Warrnan]

I just meant to take eldritch knight up to level seven. I suppose that isn't the conventional method of notating such things. Wiz6/ek7/ac5/aa2 would be my complete stub.

The abjurant champion is for the full BAB and CL. 5 levels worth of "better than a wizard" chassis. Precisely.

Sorry about that. Yes I should have 17bab and 17cl. I understand that Arcane archer is subpar. I'm just making a build for a friend who wants a classic style build.

[GreyBlack]

Abjurant Champion is just a great chasis and really easy to enter. Most just use it as filler instead of doing more Wizard levels or Eldritch Knight.

Yeah, but it doesn't really work on a wizard-based chassis. You either have to choose between boosting your BAB/caster level or your spell level, which is just suboptimal for a gish. AC 4 is fine, 4 BAB and caster is awesome, but it's kinda awkward going the whole way. Again, maybe I'm just overthinking it.

EDIT: Oh, I have no problem with suboptimal. Just wanted to make sure that was what you wanted.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yeah, but it doesn't really work on a wizard-based chassis. You either have to choose between boosting your BAB/caster level or your spell level, which is just suboptimal for a gish. AC 4 is fine, 4 BAB and caster is awesome, but it's kinda awkward going the whole way. Again, maybe I'm just overthinking it.
Whaa? There's no penalty at all to the final level-- it specifies that "your caster level in a chosen arcane spellcasting class is equal to your base attack bonus (unless it would otherwise be higher)."

[GreyBlack]

I just meant to take eldritch knight up to level seven. I suppose that isn't the conventional method of notating such things. Wiz6/ek7/ac5/aa2 would be my complete stub.

The abjurant champion is for the full BAB and CL. 5 levels worth of "better than a wizard" chassis. Precisely.

Sorry about that. Yes I should have 17bab and 17cl. I understand that Arcane archer is subpar. I'm just making a build for a friend who wants a classic style build.


Whaa? There's no penalty at all to the final level-- it specifies that "your caster level in a chosen arcane spellcasting class is equal to your base attack bonus (unless it would otherwise be higher)."

Huh. Missed that. Thanks for the correction.