End of the world - does the Dark One not get a vote?

[Narshe]

Apologizes if this was covered elsewhere, but it seems like the Elven pantheon got a vote (in the person of Veldrina) regarding the end of the world, even though they weren't involved in its creation. Shouldn't the Dark One have a voice as well? I'd imagine he wouldn't want to see the world ended, because then he'd lose his leverage.

[Porthos]

Apologizes if this was covered elsewhere, but it seems like the Elven pantheon got a vote (in the person of Veldrina) regarding the end of the world, even though they weren't involved in its creation. Shouldn't the Dark One have a voice as well? I'd imagine he wouldn't want to see the world ended, because then he'd lose his leverage.

To paraphrase Rich Burlew, what makes you think that the gods care about "fairness". Not anything that is shown in his comic, that's for sure. :smallwink:

A bit more seriously, the Elves are obviously "playing nice" with everyone else and have a voice. The Dark One, on the other hand, is purposefully fighting against the gods (either explicitly or implicitly) and thus he doesn't get a vote.

There are some obvious Real World parallels here, but can't really discuss them much due to board policy. But I think it is safe to say that most clubs only allow members to vote on their decisions. The Dark One isn't in the club, thus he doesn't get a vote.

Simple as that.

=====

Now if The Dark One showed any inclination of "playing the game" and he still didn't get a voice, that might be something. But it seems clear to me that he enjoys where he is at and will press for bigger status when he has a bigger club.

....

Or there is a new world being created and he can threaten to overturn the apple cart. Either probably works for him. :smallwink:

[Jasdoif]

A bit more seriously, the Elves are obviously "playing nice" with everyone else and have a voice.More specifically, the elves still worship Western deities in addition to their own; and presumably the elven gods themselves worshipped the Western pantheon when they were mortal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html).

[goodpeople25]

Vel is the Rep (well messenger really) of the western pantheon which the Elves are a part of. (And her being the rep is because they couldn't spare anybody that important) and not only is the Dark one not willing to play ball (as Porthos said better then i could) he also most likley would need to join a pantheon and that might be a permanent thing so even if they offered him a place he might refuse as being in a pantheon could very well weaken his postion when the plan comes into play.

Or going off what Jasdoif pointed out, it might require on paper worship of the other gods in the pantheon.

[Talion]

Even without being able to vote, the Dark One has been in a fairly strong position throughout the voting process.

1. There was/is a 50/50 shot of the world ending and, by extension, him having a chance of making goblin lives meaningful.

2. His high priest is off working on the plan that no only caused this vote to occur, but has a better than 50% chance of guaranteeing that the next world will be more favorable towards goblins and even a stronger position among all other deities/pantheons (by his way of thinking, either he gets the ultimate bargaining chip or the world starts over).

Ultimately, it seems he'd rather rework the world as is, and not condemn the lives of the goblinoids for a power gain if it can be avoided. However, he's also willing to play hardball, and if sacrificing the goblins in this world will make goblin life better for all time in any potential future worlds...

[Sith_Happens]

His high priest is off working on the plan...

Which disqualifies him from voting anyways regardless of whether he's entitled to do so in theory.

[Narshe]

Even without being able to vote, the Dark One has been in a fairly strong position throughout the voting process.

1. There was/is a 50/50 shot of the world ending and, by extension, him having a chance of making goblin lives meaningful.

2. His high priest is off working on the plan that no only caused this vote to occur, but has a better than 50% chance of guaranteeing that the next world will be more favorable towards goblins and even a stronger position among all other deities/pantheons (by his way of thinking, either he gets the ultimate bargaining chip or the world starts over).

Ultimately, it seems he'd rather rework the world as is, and not condemn the lives of the goblinoids for a power gain if it can be avoided. However, he's also willing to play hardball, and if sacrificing the goblins in this world will make goblin life better for all time in any potential future worlds...

Fair enough! Hopefully Banjo has the power and inclination to stand up for the orcs as well.

[Emperordaniel]

Banjo has about as much chance of getting a vote as the Dark One.

[Jasdoif]

Banjo has about as much chance of getting a vote as the Dark One.And that's assuming Giggles doesn't oppose Banjo on principle.

[Psyren]

In a nutshell:

- Elven gods participate with the Western Pantheon (#987)
- Dark One is his own pantheon and thus not in any others (SoD.)

Therefore he gets no vote.

EDIT: Also, as noted above, his High Priest is off doing Plan-related shenanigans and wouldn't be voting here anyway.

[littlebum2002]

Why do people keep asking this?

Even if the Dark One gets a vote, he would vote with the Southern pantheon, not the Northern Pantheon. How do you know his vote would even affect the Southern Pantheon? For all you know they voted 10-2 to save the world and his vote wouldn't change anything.

[martianmister]

Why do people keep asking this?

Even if the Dark One gets a vote, he would vote with the Southern pantheon, not the Northern Pantheon. How do you know his vote would even affect the Southern Pantheon? For all you know they voted 10-2 to save the world and his vote wouldn't change anything.

Why would he vote with southern pantheon?

[littlebum2002]

Why would he vote with southern pantheon?

Because the goblins are from the South.

Because Gobbotopoa is in the South.

I mean, if he can vote in the Northern Pantheon, why can't Thor or Loki vote in the Southern or Western Pantheons? If he isn't required to vote where his worshipers actually reside, why is everyone else required to?

[Keltest]

Because the goblins are from the South.

Because Gobbotopoa is in the South.

I mean, if he can vote in the Northern Pantheon, why can't Thor or Loki vote in the Southern or Western Pantheons? If he isn't required to vote where his worshipers actually reside, why is everyone else required to?

the only reason the hobgoblins are in the south currently is because they were force marched there. Everything ive seen indicates that the heaviest goblin concentrations are in the North.

[littlebum2002]

the only reason the hobgoblins are in the south currently is because they were force marched there.

They were?

In this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html)strip, Serini's gate is referred to as "far to the north", with 8 nations between them and the gate, whereas Azure City is only a few weeks away and it's the closest nation to them. This seems to indicate that they started in the South and marched to another part of the South.


Everything ive seen indicates that the heaviest goblin concentrations are in the North.

It's entirely possible I missed this information. Where was this mentioned?

[Jasdoif]

It's entirely possible I missed this information. Where was this mentioned?Redcloak identifies the Azurite homeland as "more than a thousand miles south of here" relative to his village.

[littlebum2002]

Redcloak identifies the Azurite homeland as "more than a thousand miles south of here" relative to his village.

A thousand miles is only the difference between Denver, CO and Houston, TX. (Sorry anyone not familiar with US geography). It's not the distance between continents, unless the OOTS world is MUCH smaller than ours.

Of course, it depends on what he means by "more than" a thousand miles. If he means "two thousand miles more than a thousand miles", then yes, he might be from the North, but somehow I don't think that's what he means.

[DaggerPen]

The Villains' Calendar actually had a line about that -

I don't have it here on mobile, but it paraphrases as "participating in the process only legitimizes it."

[Jasdoif]

A thousand miles is only the difference between Denver, CO and Houston, TX. (Sorry anyone not familiar with US geography). It's not the distance between continents, unless the OOTS world is MUCH smaller than ours.It's the most specific general marker I think we have, though.

Actually, wait, think I recall....yeah, Greysky City is in the Northern lands (or the arc wouldn't have specifically needed a cleric of a Northern god), and is also just past the mountains to the north of Azure City (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0531.html). I have to assume the nation of Azure City is on the northern edge of the Southern lands.

[Peelee]

Shouldn't the Dark One have a voice as well? I'd imagine he wouldn't want to see the world ended, because then he'd lose his leverage.

Also, since nobody's addressed it yet....

It doesn't matter if he loses his leverage if he succeeds in his goal regardless. His leverage is to give goblins a fair shake. If the world is remade, he, as a god, gets a say in it, and the goblins get a fair shake. It's even what Redcloak referred to as "Plan B."

[Gruffe]

Fair enough! Hopefully Banjo has the power and inclination to stand up for the orcs as well.

Banjo isn't a God, and even if he was he's not a member of the Northern Pantheon. Also those orcs worship the God of Slapstick now, and those orcs live in the South, not the North, so would have to vote in the Southern Pantheon and not the North, if it got a vote at all.

Also, it would be the absolute lamest twist in the entire comic if Banjo got a vote. Like seriously, I would cringe in real life. Why do people want this? I fail to see how it would in any way be funny.

[goodpeople25]

And I don't get why people go the opposite extreme in regards to banjo, yes he wouldn't resolve the godsmoot but that dosen't mean banjo has no semblance of godhood what so ever, and roy's head just randomly gets hit with tiny bolts of lighting from tiny clouds all the time. Or bringing up this debate when that post isn't about the godsmoot anyway, it is about remaking the world, which probably won't even happen so hardly a lame twist or even a twist at all.

I never thought that banjo would show up at the godsmoot but the response to those who do (or seem to in this case) is just as ridiculous to me. Yes it's a common theory and a lot of people are tired of hearing it but theres no need to go overboard in refuting it. Banjo being an incredibly weak deity has more basis in comic to me anyway.

[RatElemental]

I think the reason people keep bringing up Banjo's (and possible Giggles') participation in the vote is because if it happened, it would be one hell of a chekov's gun/brick joke, depending on how it went down. Even if it didn't change anything, because they vote against each other, or the giant just brings in more (demi)god(s) for them to tie with.

[NerdyKris]

It should also be noted that not all the demigods might have showed up. According to Strip 1012 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1012.html), usually no more than three show up. Another cleric doesn't even know how many demigods the Northern pantheon has. So even if Banjo had a vote, Rich would have just added or removed a demigod to make it a tie again, since he created them for this strip, and they've never been introduced before.


But more importantly, Banjo would have told Elan everything about the gates and how to stop it immediately, because he doesn't play those silly non disclosure games. He's too real for that. :smallcool:

[Peelee]

I think the reason people keep bringing up Banjo's (and possible Giggles') participation in the vote is because if it happened, it would be one hell of a chekov's gun/brick joke, depending on how it went down.

Psh. Still be peanuts compared to 8BT's 4 White Mages joke.

[hroþila]

A thousand miles is only the difference between Denver, CO and Houston, TX. (Sorry anyone not familiar with US geography). It's not the distance between continents, unless the OOTS world is MUCH smaller than ours.

Of course, it depends on what he means by "more than" a thousand miles. If he means "two thousand miles more than a thousand miles", then yes, he might be from the North, but somehow I don't think that's what he means.
A thousand miles is a significantly larger distance than the 7,7 miles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Gibraltar) that separate Europe from Africa, or, indeed, the 0 miles that separate Europe from Asia, or Asia from Africa, or North America from South America (in case you don't consider the last two to be a single continent).

[Peelee]

A thousand miles is a significantly larger distance than the 7,7 miles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Gibraltar) that separate Europe from Africa, or, indeed, the 0 miles that separate Europe from Asia, or Asia from Africa, or North America from South America (in case you don't consider the last two to be a single continent).

What about those of us who don't consider Europe and Asia to be separate continents?

[hroþila]

What about those of us who don't consider Europe and Asia to be separate continents?
"Eurasia" isn't a cool enough name, and besides you don't have much of a case unless you throw Africa in there too!

[Peelee]

"Eurasia" isn't a cool enough name, and besides you don't have much of a case unless you throw Africa in there too!

Eh, the Egypt/Israel land connection isn't much bigger than the Panama/Columbia one. I feel like anyone looking at the divider between Europe and Asia and says, "yep, thats two continents there" has some explainin' to do.

[littlebum2002]

A thousand miles is a significantly larger distance than the 7,7 miles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Gibraltar) that separate Europe from Africa, or, indeed, the 0 miles that separate Europe from Asia, or Asia from Africa, or North America from South America (in case you don't consider the last two to be a single continent).

I don't think you're understanding me.

I'm not saying "the bit of land (or water) which separates the two continents is a thousand miles wide". I'm saying "If you start in a northern continent and walk south a thousand miles, you're not likely to be in the southern continent"

Unless, of course, you're close to the southern border of that northern continent, and your destination is close to the northern border of the southern continent, which appears this may be the case. So I think it's pretty safe to say there is absolutely no way of telling which continent the goblins originate from

[137beth]

And that's assuming Giggles doesn't oppose Banjo on principle.

Well duh, the High Priest of Giggles isn't anywhere near the moot:smalltongue:

[Pyrous]

Well duh, the High Priest of Giggles isn't anywhere near the moot:smalltongue:

Why not?

It's clear from the forshadowing that the vote will change to "No". Giggles is the rival of his brother Banjo. We all know that Banjo would vote " Yes" if he had an actual Priest (instead he has only a Prophet with no levels on a Divine spellcasting class, should never allowed reformas Banjoistist in the first place my I digress). Therefore, Giggles would vote "No".

Actually, no, HPoG is nowhere near the mootplace. He is far enough that the Order will have to stop Phyrnglsnyx/Skyfllwump/Durkula only to receive Vel's sending that Giggles has arrived and that Hel's victory is impossible.

[Hawkstar]

Unfortunately, due to his high-priest's brief hissy-fit at the temple of the other gods, Banjo doesn't get a vote either.

[Diashi]

heh. i created an account here just to make this point. And y'all did much better discussing it that i could have... nicely done guys.