Paladin Multiclass

[CNasty]

I'm new to GITP and currently playing a level 11 Human (Variant) Oath of Vengeance Paladin in my first 5e game. I'm not sure I want to go the full 20 levels in paladin, so I'd love some suggestions for effective multiclassing. My character is built as follows:

Str: 14
Dex: 20
Con: 15
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Chr: 20

Feat: Sentinel
Fighting Style: Defense

AC: 24
HP 97

Spells:
Lvl 1: Bless, Command, Wrathful Smite, Compelled Duel, Thundering Smite, Bane, Hunter's Mark
Lvl 2: Aid, Zone of Truth, Hold Person, Misty Step
Lvl 3: Aura of Vitality, Blinding Smite, Crusader's Mantle, Revivify, Haste, Protection from Energy.

He currently uses +2 Std Leather, a +2 shield, and a +1 rapier. Also worth noting that he has a Necklace of Prayer Beads with 2 Bless, 2 CLW, and 2 GR.

Our party has been a Fighter, Rogue, Warlock, and myself from the beginning, with one additional party member who dies every two levels and comes back as something else (Wild Mage, Bard, Ranger, Cleric, etc.). For the most part I've been pulling double duty as tank and healer, with the fighter being more damage oriented than tanky. I thought we were finally in luck when our 5th made a cleric, but he just died again and decided to come back as a sorcerer... so now I'm considering going more of a healer route to keep the party on it's feet. I was considering going Paladin 12/Life Cleric 8, but I'm not sure the trade-off is worth it.

As far as roleplay goes, I played the first 8 levels as a doppelganger impersonating my paladin who was eventually discovered and killed by the party, but not before setting some seriously evil stuff into motion. Now the real paladin is back, but he's old and tired but he wants revenge on the people who sent the doppelganger out to do evil in the paladin's name. At this point in the story he could very easily strengthen ties with his god and use that power to help finish his quest, or he could go more martial (take a dip in fighter or ranger, or w/e) and just focus on hunting down the responsible party and doing battle.

I'm open to any suggestions, including items and feats to pick up, etc. Thanks!

[CantigThimble]

Well, you can't multiclass to cleric with a wisdom of 11 so mechanically your best bet is Sorcerer or Bard. You already have cure wounds as a paladin so just getting more spell slots will help you heal.

[CNasty]

Well, you can't multiclass to cleric with a wisdom of 11

Wow, definitely should have checked that before posting. Thanks for the heads up! I would consider taking the +2 to Wis at level 12 and then multiclassing though.

[Corran]

Aura of vitality is your go-to spell when it comes to healing. And you already have it. If you want extra shennanigans with it, have a look at this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?471899-Ridiculously-good-healer-(just-for-fun)
Essentially, you can add 3 sorcerer levels for extend metamagic, or advance one more level in paladin to grab +2 wis from the ASI at 12th level, and then take 1 level in life cleric. Or you could do both. Jut go through the thread I linked and you will find some great ideas.

[djreynolds]

I'm new to GITP and currently playing a level 11 Human (Variant) Oath of Vengeance Paladin in my first 5e game. I'm not sure I want to go the full 20 levels in paladin, so I'd love some suggestions for effective multiclassing. My character is built as follows:

Str: 14
Dex: 20
Con: 15
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Chr: 20

Feat: Sentinel
Fighting Style: Defense

AC: 24
HP 97

Spells:
Lvl 1: Bless, Command, Wrathful Smite, Compelled Duel, Thundering Smite, Bane, Hunter's Mark
Lvl 2: Aid, Zone of Truth, Hold Person, Misty Step
Lvl 3: Aura of Vitality, Blinding Smite, Crusader's Mantle, Revivify, Haste, Protection from Energy.

He currently uses +2 Std Leather, a +2 shield, and a +1 rapier. Also worth noting that he has a Necklace of Prayer Beads with 2 Bless, 2 CLW, and 2 GR.

Our party has been a Fighter, Rogue, Warlock, and myself from the beginning, with one additional party member who dies every two levels and comes back as something else (Wild Mage, Bard, Ranger, Cleric, etc.). For the most part I've been pulling double duty as tank and healer, with the fighter being more damage oriented than tanky. I thought we were finally in luck when our 5th made a cleric, but he just died again and decided to come back as a sorcerer... so now I'm considering going more of a healer route to keep the party on it's feet. I was considering going Paladin 12/Life Cleric 8, but I'm not sure the trade-off is worth it.

As far as roleplay goes, I played the first 8 levels as a doppelganger impersonating my paladin who was eventually discovered and killed by the party, but not before setting some seriously evil stuff into motion. Now the real paladin is back, but he's old and tired but he wants revenge on the people who sent the doppelganger out to do evil in the paladin's name. At this point in the story he could very easily strengthen ties with his god and use that power to help finish his quest, or he could go more martial (take a dip in fighter or ranger, or w/e) and just focus on hunting down the responsible party and doing battle.

I'm open to any suggestions, including items and feats to pick up, etc. Thanks!

I love this build. And it screams swashbuckler. "Prepare to Die"

[coredump]

You already have LoH and AoV. At level 12 you could grab Inspiring leader or Healer feat, either is a nice HP boost without having to MC.

[Arkhios]

There is one not-so-little downside on going to Life cleric with only 13 wisdom. Unless you want to cast your cures with wisdom as the modifying stat (being +1 instead of the much more effective +5), you must still prepare Cure Wounds from your paladin list, so the domain spell is kind of wasted. As it is, spells known and prepared always depend on the individual class' spellcasting ability. Unless you can convince your DM allowing you to replace that domain spell with something else, like Healing word or Sanctuary.

As for the multiclassing, seeing your group composition I think a lore bard might suit well. Being the tanky one of your party, jack of all trades adds up nicely on your Initiative check, which in turn helps you to go first, as a good tank always should, in my opinion. Bardic Inspiration as much as 5 times, resetting at short rests is a great help for both you and your allies, Expertise with two skills of your choice, and countercharm which is kind of an aura with the exception you have to activate it everytime you use it.
Additionally you get some very neat spells keyed to your already huge charisma, such as healing word. At 6th bard level you could add any 2 cantrips or spells up to 3rd level from ANY class list to your bard spells known, which would count as bard cantrips/spells for you (so, again, if relevant, your casting ability for those would be Charisma).

[bid]

There is one not-so-little downside on going to Life cleric with only 13 wisdom. Unless you want to cast your cures with wisdom as the modifying stat (being +1 instead of the much more effective +5), you must still prepare Cure Wounds from your paladin list, so the domain spell is kind of wasted. As it is, spells known and prepared always depend on the individual class' spellcasting ability. Unless you can convince your DM allowing you to replace that domain spell with something else, like Healing word or Sanctuary.
It's not that bad since all the life domain's feature work perfectly with Wis13. If cure wound has to be cast from the cleric's side, the effective +4 (with disciple of life) is almost as good as the +5 of a pure paladin. That's still 4 behind the same MC using Cha, but it works in emergencies.

[Arkhios]

It's not that bad since all the life domain's feature work perfectly with Wis13. If cure wound has to be cast from the cleric's side, the effective +4 (with disciple of life) is almost as good as the +5 of a pure paladin. That's still 4 behind the same MC using Cha, but it works in emergencies.

While it's not impossible to prepare a same spell from paladin as from cleric, it's sort of waste of resources, as a paladin can only prepare spells half his paladin level + Charisma modifier, and Life domain gets the spell as a bonus, always prepared at no cost. But then again, why shouldn't you, for a chance of much better cures. Effectively, you'd be double-preparing the same spell. It can be done, but is it worth it? A difference between +4 and +8 is actually quite a lot, when you are actually able to do that, if you choose to.

[djreynolds]

Swashbuckler, you're initiative will be +10 with those stats. And you can sneak attack lone enemies. Sweet.

[Citan]

I'm new to GITP and currently playing a level 11 Human (Variant) Oath of Vengeance Paladin in my first 5e game. I'm not sure I want to go the full 20 levels in paladin, so I'd love some suggestions for effective multiclassing. My character is built as follows:

Str: 14
Dex: 20
Con: 15
Int: 10
Wis: 11
Chr: 20

Feat: Sentinel
Fighting Style: Defense

AC: 24
HP 97

Spells:
Lvl 1: Bless, Command, Wrathful Smite, Compelled Duel, Thundering Smite, Bane, Hunter's Mark
Lvl 2: Aid, Zone of Truth, Hold Person, Misty Step
Lvl 3: Aura of Vitality, Blinding Smite, Crusader's Mantle, Revivify, Haste, Protection from Energy.

He currently uses +2 Std Leather, a +2 shield, and a +1 rapier. Also worth noting that he has a Necklace of Prayer Beads with 2 Bless, 2 CLW, and 2 GR.

Our party has been a Fighter, Rogue, Warlock, and myself from the beginning, with one additional party member who dies every two levels and comes back as something else (Wild Mage, Bard, Ranger, Cleric, etc.). For the most part I've been pulling double duty as tank and healer, with the fighter being more damage oriented than tanky. I thought we were finally in luck when our 5th made a cleric, but he just died again and decided to come back as a sorcerer... so now I'm considering going more of a healer route to keep the party on it's feet. I was considering going Paladin 12/Life Cleric 8, but I'm not sure the trade-off is worth it.

As far as roleplay goes, I played the first 8 levels as a doppelganger impersonating my paladin who was eventually discovered and killed by the party, but not before setting some seriously evil stuff into motion. Now the real paladin is back, but he's old and tired but he wants revenge on the people who sent the doppelganger out to do evil in the paladin's name. At this point in the story he could very easily strengthen ties with his god and use that power to help finish his quest, or he could go more martial (take a dip in fighter or ranger, or w/e) and just focus on hunting down the responsible party and doing battle.

I'm open to any suggestions, including items and feats to pick up, etc. Thanks!
Hi!

The simplest way would indeed to take Sorcerer and up it until you get Twin (more efficient healing) or Quicken (Cure Wounds as bonus action), OR 1 lvl Bard (direct access to Healing Words for emergencies).

But with maxed CHA, taking Inspiring Leader as a feat may be enough while not hurting your Paladin progression.

It really depends on what max level you think you'll get and what Paladin features are you interested in beyond current level. If you're not interested in 4rth level spells (which you should though, because ones such as Aura of Life are very good to save allies ;)) AND you plan on still gaining at least 4 levels, take Sorcerer. If you don't know how many levels, take Bard.
A last "caster dip" option if allowed would be level 2(+) Undying Warlock which would bring many many goodies:
* +CHA to radiant spells (hello cantrip, hello smite spells).
* 2 lvl1 short-rest slots (for smiting or cure).
* good cantrips, spells and invocations: EB is not mandatory here, especially with a Warlock ally who may feel you're tiptoeing but you could take Booming Blade, Arms of Hadar and Expeditious Retreat of Hex - although it competes with your Hunter's Mark for concentration). This option really depends on how often you take short rests and if Invocations attract you.

Otherwise, take the Inspiring Leader feat and use it well until you get lvl 13, at which point you can prepare Aura of Life and stick to your suicidal buddy to save him from himself when the time comes. :)
It is my recommendation because, while I love multiclassing, gaining a new level should take much time now, so you may wait for a long time to see the pay-off for dipping, whereas the feat gets useful immediately while keeping you on track for the 13th Paladin level (and also gives another 5HP for Lay on Hands).
If you're willing to be patient enough though, all choices are valid. ;)

[bid]

A difference between +4 and +8 is actually quite a lot, when you are actually able to do that, if you choose to.
Yes, that's true. What I was going for is if you took any domain but Life, your pally would heal for 1d8+5. Using a life cleric slot, you'd heal for 1d8+4.

For instance:
- war domain divine favor + paladin cure wound = 1d8+5
- life domain cure wound + paladin divine favor = 1d8+4

Seen that way, the actual downside of not duplicating life domain spells is -1.


That is in addition to healing for 1d8+8 if you duplicate the spell. I don't think there's any other domain whose feature + spells comes close to this.

[coredump]

It's not that bad since all the life domain's feature work perfectly with Wis13. If cure wound has to be cast from the cleric's side, the effective +4 (with disciple of life) is almost as good as the +5 of a pure paladin. That's still 4 behind the same MC using Cha, but it works in emergencies.

Disciple of Life works for all healing spells. So the choice is +4 cleric, or +8 Paladin.

[bid]

Disciple of Life works for all healing spells. So the choice is +4 cleric, or +8 Paladin.
Yes, of course. "That's still 4 behind the same MC using Cha, but it works in emergencies."