Gift of the Spider Queen: Good Idea or Trap?

[asnys]

For reference, Gift of the Spider Queen is a feat from Drow of the Underdark that lets drow expend spell-like ability uses to perform a variety of magical effects, including extinguishing non-magical lights, replicating mirror image, replicating see invisibility, and something called blinding vanish which simultaneously makes you briefly invisible and creates an area blinding effect. And, critically, all of these are immediate actions.

I'm designing a drow rogue for a solo thing who's intended primarily as a cat burglar type, someone who's focused on stealth and theft rather than combat, and I'm strongly considering this feat. Although all of the effects seem potentially useful, the blinding vanish bit is the one that particularly attracts me, as a way to get a chance to hide and/or escape when you're 1st level and under attack. It's not exactly Hide in Plain Sight - and can only be used once per day unless you sink tons of feats into getting more SLAs - but it still seems really useful, especially as a solo-er who doesn't have a caster backing them up. I'm wondering what the thoughts of the playground are. For reference, my other 1st-level feat picks (including flaws) are currently Two Weapon Fighting and Swift and Silent, and I'm planning to pick Darkstalker up at 3rd level.

[AvatarVecna]

For reference, Gift of the Spider Queen is a feat from Drow of the Underdark that lets drow expend spell-like ability uses to perform a variety of magical effects, including extinguishing non-magical lights, replicating mirror image, replicating see invisibility, and something called blinding vanish which simultaneously makes you briefly invisible and creates an area blinding effect. And, critically, all of these are immediate actions.

I'm designing a drow rogue for a solo thing who's intended primarily as a cat burglar type, someone who's focused on stealth and theft rather than combat, and I'm strongly considering this feat. Although all of the effects seem potentially useful, the blinding vanish bit is the one that particularly attracts me, as a way to get a chance to hide and/or escape when you're 1st level and under attack. It's not exactly Hide in Plain Sight - and can only be used once per day unless you sink tons of feats into getting more SLAs - but it still seems really useful, especially as a solo-er who doesn't have a caster backing them up. I'm wondering what the thoughts of the playground are. For reference, my other 1st-level feat picks (including flaws) are currently Two Weapon Fighting and Swift and Silent, and I'm planning to pick Darkstalker up at 3rd level.

"Gift of the Spider Queen" is potentially pretty useful, from my quick glance over it, although it'll be rendered less relevant at higher levels. I have no idea why you're delaying Darkstalker to take Two-Weapon Fighting. Swift and Silent is alright if you qualify (and pretty sweet if your DM is waiving the regional pre-req). I have to ask though: are you married to the drow race? Like, if you had a better option, would you take it? Since whoever's DMing this is allowing LA, might I suggest a Whisper Gnome with the Dark Creature template? You can't get GotSQ, but you get a lot of other goodies that you don't have to spend a feat to get.

[asnys]

"Gift of the Spider Queen" is potentially pretty useful, from my quick glance over it, although it'll be rendered less relevant at higher levels. I have no idea why you're delaying Darkstalker to take Two-Weapon Fighting. Swift and Silent is alright if you qualify (and pretty sweet if your DM is waiving the regional pre-req). I have to ask though: are you married to the drow race? Like, if you had a better option, would you take it? Since whoever's DMing this is allowing LA, might I suggest a Whisper Gnome with the Dark Creature template? You can't get GotSQ, but you get a lot of other goodies that you don't have to spend a feat to get.

I'm not committed to taking Two-Weapon Fighting at 1st level, but my impression is that exotic sensory modes are relatively rare at 1st? I am married to the drow race, though, for fluff reasons. (Otherwise, I'd totally take the Dark template. Dunno about whisper gnome, but definitely Dark.)

[Cerefel]

Would Half-Drow be out of the question? All of the fluff goodness of drow with no LA

[AvatarVecna]

I'm not committed to taking Two-Weapon Fighting at 1st level, but my impression is that exotic sensory modes are relatively rare at 1st? I am married to the drow race, though, for fluff reasons. (Otherwise, I'd totally take the Dark template. Dunno about whisper gnome, but definitely Dark.)

Scent is the big one early one, and Tremorsenseis common enough underground to be worth defending against. A master thief who gets auto-detected by a guard dog at 1st lvl is a dead master thief.

Whisper Gnome is small and has racial bonuses to the stealth and perception skills, and is faster than other small races to boot. It also has some useful racial SLAs, like Silence.

Incidentally, some other good feats (if you spare any and qualify) are Quick Reconnoiter and Earth Sense.

[asnys]

Scent is the big one early one, and Tremorsenseis common enough underground to be worth defending against. A master thief who gets auto-detected by a guard dog at 1st lvl is a dead master thief.

Hm, good point. And it's not like I'll be putting out much damage with only +1d6 SA anyway. I'll switch it around.


Whisper Gnome is small and has racial bonuses to the stealth and perception skills, and is faster than other small races to boot. It also has some useful racial SLAs, like Silence.

I just have a hard time taking gnomes seriously. I know it's a character flaw, but I do. I have the same problem with halflings. :smallredface:

I love me the Dark template, though. Just doesn't fit flavorwise here.


Incidentally, some other good feats (if you spare any and qualify) are Quick Reconnoiter and Earth Sense.

Didn't know of Earth Sense - thanks! - but Quick Reconnoiter is on my "if I can fit it in" list. The problem is, as you say, sparing the feats... I don't want to plan too far ahead, since there are multiple directions this character could go narratively that would effect class choice, but at the moment I've penciled in a swordsage dip at level 5. Beyond that, I don't want to be completely combat ineffective, so I really do need to pick up Two-Weapon Fighting eventually, and probably Craven and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. Even with flaws, that fills up all my feat slots until level 12. I could pick up a level or two of fighter, but that costs both skill points and sneak attack dice...

Thank you for the help!

[Flickerdart]

Gift of the Spider Queen is super-cool, but it needs a lot of support. Make sure you have Magic in the Blood, Drow Paragon levels, and so on so that you can get as many uses of your SLAs as possible.

[gorfnab]

Here is a thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5111.msg73307#msg73307) about an E6 build that focuses on getting the most out of Gift of the Spider Queen.

[thorr-kan]

Here is a thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5111.msg73307#msg73307) about an E6 build that focuses on getting the most out of Gift of the Spider Queen.
Beat me to it.

I just posted a thread few weeks ago looking for that discussion. It's insanely inspiring. And while focused on drow, there's enough info there that a gnome or tiefling can get some mileage out of the SLAs as well.

[Zaq]

I don't think it's a good idea for this character, to be honest. You said you're 1st level? A feat is way too big an investment at 1st level for something that only works once per day. It's a very cool effect, but unless/until you have enough resources to get this effect more than once per day (as Flickerdart mentioned, Magic in the Blood and/or Drow Paragon levels, at a start), I think a feat is too big a cost for what you get in return. At level 1, you don't have a lot of build resources (feats, levels, skills, and gear, basically) contributing to your power level, so sacrificing a whole feat for something so limited in use takes up a much bigger chunk of your build resources than would be the case at higher levels.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, Rogues need about a million feats to do everything they want to do—there's absolutely no shortage of must-have Rogue feats even without drow-specific ones. Darkstalker, Weapon Finesse, possibly a combat feat tree (the TWF tree, the archery tree, the Crossbow Sniper tree, etc.), possibly Shadow Blade and its prereqs if you want DEX to damage, Craven, skill-based feats like Quick Reconnoiter or Savvy Rogue, possibly a defensive option, maybe Pierce Magical Concealment if you want to use a Ring of Blinking or if you just want to ignore one common method of shutting down Sneak Attack, any feats you need to get into a PrC, etc.

I mean, make no mistake, the effect is cool, and on the one round per day when you get to make use of it, you're going to have fun with it. It's a great "OH CRAP!" button for getting away from a situation that turns against you. If you're truly confident that your other feats will cover you and let you do what you want to do for the other 99% of the day, then I can see being drawn in by how cool the effect will be on the rare occasions you get to use it. But personally, I like my feats to matter more than once per day, and I never feel comfortable with my power level at level 1 to begin with, no matter how many feats I have available.