Exploiting high Jump check

[Hiro Quester]

I'm playing a 12 level wildshaping druid/Lion of Talisid (with one level Monk dip) who spends most of his time in Tiger wildshape (mostly for flavor reasons). I charge and pounce a lot, leading with two unarmed strikes, then claw, claw, bite secondary attacks, and possibly also two rake attacks.

Between tiger strength, and recently convincing DM to let me know and cast all the Heart of.... spells, I now have about +27 to +33 to my jump check (depending on which other buff spells I have active).

I just achieved level 12, so can learn a new feat. Are there any feats (or other options or tactics) that I can use to make good use of that jump check?

Jump isn't a class skill (except for that one Monk level), so I only have one rank in it so far. Though I could put more in, there are a lot of uses for skills, and my Jump check is already my highest skill check. So feats with a prerequisite of many ranks in jump would require more skill investment.

Though I occasionally have use of Power Attack by casting Bite of the WereTiger or Bite of the Werebear, I also don't have the strength (out of wildshape my strength is 8) to learn Power Attack. So feats like Leap Attack and Flying Kick are inaccessible.

Any suggestions for feats or other ways to make use of that jump check?

[Troacctid]

Well, you can jump pretty high. That's certainly not irrelevant.

There are some Tiger Claw maneuvers that use Jump checks. Sudden Leap for swift-action movement is probably the only one you'd care about--the better your check, the more movement you get.

[GilesTheCleric]

Is there a feat similar to Hyena Tribe Hunter (ShS 20) that will let you obviate the requirements for Power Attack? Alternatively, you could retrain your monk level to Drag313 (I think?) Martial Monk and grab whichever feat you like. You could also use Heroics while leveling up.

[Troacctid]

Alternatively, you could retrain your monk level to Drag313 (I think?) Martial Monk and grab whichever feat you like. You could also use Heroics while leveling up.

If that's what you want to do, you can do it with the Overwhelming Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#overwhelmingAttack) style and get a free +2 to Intimidate.

[Hiro Quester]

I can jump kinda high. The high jump rules don't let you get very high. Not even if you are a big cat with a high jump check. DC 40 to jump over or onto 10 feet high feels rather restrictive.

I already took the denying stance monk variant, to get improved grapple. It complements the improved grab of a pouncing cat, and makes it easier to win the grapple check to rake and to lock down the opponent I pounced on.

Retraining that for power attack probably isn't worth it. Esp. because I get temporary use of power attack with the bite of the weretiger and bite of the werebear spells.

Our game is sort of book limited. We have core plus Stormwrack, with other books' feats, spells, classes open on a case by case basis. No TOB stuff.

[Darrin]

Leap of the Heavens (PHBII) lets you make jump checks without a running start at a lower DC. After that, consider Battle Jump (Unapproachable East) or Roof-Jumper (Cityscape, use Cobra Strike monk to grab the prereqs) to jump up to a square directly over your opponent, then fall down on top of them, turning the fall into a charge (adding Pounce and/or Rake as appropriate).

Note: Not all DMs agree on how exactly Battle Jump or Roof-Jumper works. We still get into arguments in this forum over whether you still need to devote a full-round action or observe the movement restrictions on the fall/charge.

[Hiro Quester]

Not trying to start that argument about battle jump, but that does look pretty cool. I'm guessing the debate is about whether you need to be directly above the opponent, or whether you can also jump towards your opponent?

If one can leap into the air during a charge and clear 10 feet up, then can one count as jumping down? Having pounce already obviates the concern about full round or standard action, right?

The bonus trip attempt or double damage on the first attack or bonus to grapple, isn't nothing. It would be good to have some tactical options like that.

The DM applies the rule of cool enough to perhaps see this as a fun option, even though it's from a new book we don't generally have open.

Plus with a DC 40 jump check, there is still a 40% or so chance of failing to jump well enough and falling prone 5ft from opponent instead. Adding that element of risk into it also adds to the appeal.

[Darrin]

If one can leap into the air during a charge and clear 10 feet up, then can one count as jumping down? Having pounce already obviates the concern about full round or standard action, right?


The first issue is neither Battle Jump nor Roof-Jumper specify what action is required to activate the effect. If you allow any action that results in a fall, then this allows you to charge without using a full-round action, or make multiple charges in the same round. The second issue is there are other requirements for charging, such as it has to be in a straight line, nearest square, and so forth. It's not clear from the text if Battle Jump or Roof-Jumper circumvent these requirements.

The Jump rules aren't particularly clear about whether high jumps can include a horizontal component, but I can't imagine any reasonable argument that would object to a high jump that starts in one square that lands in an adjacent square. That is the very definition of a high jump, at least from an Olympic standpoint.

On the gripping hand, the wording on both feats is so confusing that it's difficult to establish the designer's intent. So you're best bet is sell the DM on the Rule of Cool and decide how you want it to work.



Plus with a DC 40 jump check, there is still a 40% or so chance of failing to jump well enough and falling prone 5ft from opponent instead. Adding that element of risk into it also adds to the appeal.

Ring of Jumping (2500 GP, DMG) or Belt of Ultimate Athleticism (3600 GP, MIC) could be of some help there.

[Necroticplague]

Not trying to start that argument about battle jump, but that does look pretty cool. I'm guessing the debate is about whether you need to be directly above the opponent, or whether you can also jump towards your opponent?

If one can leap into the air during a charge and clear 10 feet up, then can one count as jumping down? Having pounce already obviates the concern about full round or standard action, right?

Actually no, it doesn't. The problem is Battle Jump isn't specific about whether it's reactive (i.e, every time you land on an enemy like that, you get a charge, regardless of action), of proactive (i.e, it's still a full round action to charge, but you can do it by landing on someone).

The most common interpretation I've seen is that it acts like a wierd form of corkscrew charge (i.e, full round action, move twice your speed, but trade in the 'need to move in straight line' for 'need to land on enemy from 10 feet up at the end'), thus encouraging some weird matrix-style tricks with climb speeds.

[Elxir_Breauer]

There's also the clause in the Jump skill's Horizontal Jump (or Long Jump, if you will) about achieving a certain height at the peak of your jump based on the distance traveled. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm


Long Jump
A long jump is a horizontal jump, made across a gap like a chasm or stream. At the midpoint of the jump, you attain a vertical height equal to one-quarter of the horizontal distance. The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet).

If your check succeeds, you land on your feet at the far end. If you fail the check by less than 5, you don’t clear the distance, but you can make a DC 15 Reflex save to grab the far edge of the gap. You end your movement grasping the far edge. If that leaves you dangling over a chasm or gap, getting up requires a move action and a DC 15 Climb check.

Emphasis mine.

This means that if you jump at least 40' in one go, you reach a height of 10' at the midpoint of said jump, a 60' jump would be enough to get you 15' of height at the midpoint, which might be enough to trigger stuff like Battle Jump if it's reactive. If it's deemed to be PROactive then your best bet in that kind of instance is to get enough of a Strength boost to get Power Attack and enough ranks in Jump for Leap Attack..

[Hiro Quester]

Since I have pounce in Tiger form (and in all forms at 15th level, thanks to Lion of Talisid PrC's 15th level ability) anyway, making the jumping charge part of the move action is not a problem. I can get a full attack on a charge. And Battle Jump is explicitly a charge:


You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height

The long jump height I didn't notice. Thanks for pointing that out, Elixir. So a DC 40 long jump would also have enough height to add the vertical force to the charge's horizontal force.

And I can also cast Jump (1st level spell) on myself for +30 to the jump check. Or cast spider climb on myself to run up the walls and jump down (as long as the total run plus jump does not exceed my movement, since I would not be able to double-move like a regular charge).

This sounds like fun.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/thekungfupanda/images/d/d2/Kung_fu_panda_tigress.jpg

[Firest Kathon]

This means that if you jump at least 40' in one go, you reach a height of 10' at the midpoint of said jump
You still need to hit the same DC of 40 to jump 40'. You also need to have a speed of at least 40' to jump the distance in one move action.

[Hiro Quester]

Oh right. I normally have 50 ft movement. So double move with jump at the end would still work. And single move jump for height would still be possible too, running,say 30 ft then high jumping.

The other danger is passing through a threatened square, so generating AOO

[Flickerdart]

Do you frequently adventure in or near large bodies of water? Flying Fish Leap is a feat that lets you move your high jump distance both laterally and vertically when you jump out of water, which could be useful when attacking air-breathing enemies while you are in an aquatic form.

[Hiro Quester]

Not often enough to be worth investing a feat in that.