Thoughts on polearm mastery + sentinel + enlarge

[wolfenstein]

Hi all, I'm looking to play a multiclass paladin sorcerer. Variant human with rolled stats. I was wondering how viable it will be to combine polearm mastery with sentinel and enlarge. Do you think it will be necessary to get battle caster for the build or should I first level as sorcerer to get con save? Alternatively I could 1st level dip as fighter.

[RulesJD]

Hi all, I'm looking to play a multiclass paladin sorcerer. Variant human with rolled stats. I was wondering how viable it will be to combine polearm mastery with sentinel and enlarge. Do you think it will be necessary to get battle caster for the build or should I first level as sorcerer to get con save? Alternatively I could 1st level dip as fighter.

If you go Sorc first you don't get Heavy Armor.

1 level dip Fighter is popular, and grabbing the extra FS would be nice for both GWF, Defense, and Con Save prof.

[Sir cryosin]

Do you want this spell to revolve around polearm master Sentinel and enlarge. Why not go Fighter 5 wizard 15 go school of adjuration.

[RickAllison]

Dipping fighter would be much better, saving you a feat later on. I suppose you could trust your DM to give you a Mithral plate armor, but I wouldn't get your hopes up if you do.

[joaber]

get find steed, when you enlarge yourself, you'll enlarge your mount too battlefield control.

ask to your DM if he let you use find steed with higher spellslots to bring creatures with higher CR. Get a huge creature and make him a gargantuan one. With mounted combatant, will be advantage in every attack

If you can use UA content, get tunnel fighter fighting style.

this PC will be a feat starver, so getting Con prof without a feat will be a good idea, unfortunately this will slow down the hole thing.

PS: I'm creating exactly this building now.

[wolfenstein]

If you go Sorc first you don't get Heavy Armor.

1 level dip Fighter is popular, and grabbing the extra FS would be nice for both GWF, Defense, and Con Save prof.

I do like the benefits of the fighter at 1st level, I just wonder if going multiclass 3 will really hurt my progression or just be a bit much for my DM to swallow. I was planning on going 6 levels in Pally (oath of vengeance) then sorcerer at least 3 to get enlarge. After that it's up in the air. That being said I have a +2 dex mod so if I lost out on heavy armor I would still be looking at a 17 AC. If I went the fighter route (if allowable) and got the defense FS I'd be looking at 19 AC max. The premise of the character is to have a large melee control aspect. I'm wondering if I'll even need the con save prof. if I have a good AC and am able to keep enemies away from me to preserve the concentration on enlarge spell.

[wolfenstein]

Do you want this spell to revolve around polearm master Sentinel and enlarge. Why not go Fighter 5 wizard 15 go school of adjuration.

I agree that fighter 5 wizard 15 would be a great option for this build but paladin suits my current party best.

[wolfenstein]

get find steed, when you enlarge yourself, you'll enlarge your mount too battlefield control.

ask to your DM if he let you use find steed with higher spellslots to bring creatures with higher CR. Get a huge creature and make him a gargantuan one. With mounted combatant, will be advantage in every attack

If you can use UA content, get tunnel fighter fighting style.

this PC will be a feat starver, so getting Con prof without a feat will be a good idea, unfortunately this will slow down the hole thing.

PS: I'm creating exactly this building now.

I'll look into the mount option. As for tunnel fighter I don't think that's going to fly, which is unfortunate since there is nice synergy there. Let me know how your build turns out.

[Vogonjeltz]

Hi all, I'm looking to play a multiclass paladin sorcerer. Variant human with rolled stats. I was wondering how viable it will be to combine polearm mastery with sentinel and enlarge. Do you think it will be necessary to get battle caster for the build or should I first level as sorcerer to get con save? Alternatively I could 1st level dip as fighter.

Do you mean Warcaster? Most classes only ever get 5 ASI, so if you burn 2 on sentinel and polearm mastery, and the variant feat on warcaster, then you won't get an ASI until at least 12th level. That's assuming you don't multiclass before then (or multiclass after exactly 4/8 levels). If you do, push that back however many levels you put into the other class.

Enlarge/Reduce is a 2nd level spell, so you'd need at least 3 levels in Sorcerer to get it. So, if you take another level in Sorc to get that ASI and unlock Sentinel (with Polearm Mastery as your variant feat) you're looking at another level to even get proficiency with polearms and see your concept come to fruition.

Alternatively, start as a Paladin, get to 4th level so you have Sentinel and Polearm Mastery and then you have the problem that, you either take 3 levels in Sorcerer before getting enlarge at 7th level, or you get that 5th level in Paladin for extra attack and defer enlarge to level 8.

Extra Attack is straight up better than Enlarge/Reduce, even if it didn't cost you 3 more levels to unlock the latter. So I would recommend going 5 levels in Paladin and then taking stock to see if you really want to bother diverting levels just for enlarge/reduce.

[joaber]

Do you mean Warcaster? Most classes only ever get 5 ASI, so if you burn 2 on sentinel and polearm mastery, and the variant feat on warcaster, then you won't get an ASI until at least 12th level. That's assuming you don't multiclass before then (or multiclass after exactly 4/8 levels). If you do, push that back however many levels you put into the other class.

Enlarge/Reduce is a 2nd level spell, so you'd need at least 3 levels in Sorcerer to get it. So, if you take another level in Sorc to get that ASI and unlock Sentinel (with Polearm Mastery as your variant feat) you're looking at another level to even get proficiency with polearms and see your concept come to fruition.

Alternatively, start as a Paladin, get to 4th level so you have Sentinel and Polearm Mastery and then you have the problem that, you either take 3 levels in Sorcerer before getting enlarge at 7th level, or you get that 5th level in Paladin for extra attack and defer enlarge to level 8.

Extra Attack is straight up better than Enlarge/Reduce, even if it didn't cost you 3 more levels to unlock the latter. So I would recommend going 5 levels in Paladin and then taking stock to see if you really want to bother diverting levels just for enlarge/reduce.

why stop in 5 when you can get aura of protection in the 6th lvl?

[wolfenstein]

Do you mean Warcaster? Most classes only ever get 5 ASI, so if you burn 2 on sentinel and polearm mastery, and the variant feat on warcaster, then you won't get an ASI until at least 12th level. That's assuming you don't multiclass before then (or multiclass after exactly 4/8 levels). If you do, push that back however many levels you put into the other class.

Enlarge/Reduce is a 2nd level spell, so you'd need at least 3 levels in Sorcerer to get it. So, if you take another level in Sorc to get that ASI and unlock Sentinel (with Polearm Mastery as your variant feat) you're looking at another level to even get proficiency with polearms and see your concept come to fruition.

Alternatively, start as a Paladin, get to 4th level so you have Sentinel and Polearm Mastery and then you have the problem that, you either take 3 levels in Sorcerer before getting enlarge at 7th level, or you get that 5th level in Paladin for extra attack and defer enlarge to level 8.

Extra Attack is straight up better than Enlarge/Reduce, even if it didn't cost you 3 more levels to unlock the latter. So I would recommend going 5 levels in Paladin and then taking stock to see if you really want to bother diverting levels just for enlarge/reduce.

Yes I did mean War caster :p
Thanks for the advice, I think I'll go up to 6 in paladin first to get the aura. I know it may not be optimal to go for the enlarge but I think it will be fun to try.

[Vogonjeltz]

why stop in 5 when you can get aura of protection in the 6th lvl?

Well, there's no real value to multiclass at all probably, when you consider everything that is being passed over as an opportunity cost.

But the reason I suggested going to at least 5th for extra attack is that he seemed to have this big melee combo focus going on, and extra attack would be far too useful to for enlarge first.

Aura of Protection is good, defensively, but it wouldn't be contributing to the combo the op seemed interested in.

(I stand corrected ;)

[joaber]

Well, there's no real value to multiclass at all probably, when you consider everything that is being passed over as an opportunity cost.

But the reason I suggested going to at least 5th for extra attack is that he seemed to have this big melee combo focus going on, and extra attack would be far too useful to for enlarge first.

Aura of Protection is good, defensively, but it wouldn't be contributing to the combo the op seemed interested in.

(I stand corrected ;)

a +3 to +5 in concentration saves, and every other save and for close allies will help more than the enlarge. after lvl 6, pali don't add much, only in lvl 11, so this is the point you leave.

[Submortimer]

If the thing you want to do is combine PAM, Sentinel, and Enlarge, you're better served just by playing a straight EK. At level 8, you can learn a spell from any school, and you have a couple of slots to use on it. Meanwhile, you have three ASIs, keeping you from being feat starved, and you have the excellent War Magic ability for when you need to hit someone with fire.

While it's up to DM interpretation, you would have enough ASIs to take Spell Sniper, which would double the range of Booming Blade and GFB, allowing you to use those at pole arm range.

[Sir cryosin]

If you using the SCAG you can be a duragard and get the spell as a class feature but it'll only be once once a day