What can a Bard or Sorcerer do to be able to watch the camp at night?

[INoKnowNames]

Quick question before I need to get on with my daily business, and a question I'd had in mind for a bit. I was wondering how someone with magic could go about being on guard duty and still regain spells.

Spells used during the last period of time before regaining new spells count against new spells for the day, so using a spell to answer this doesn't sound productive.

Ring of Sustenance and Wands/Pots of Restoration don't work because I want to still be able to regain spells, not just go without resting.

Prefer avoiding changing race.

I know about that Fortifying Bedroll, which looks like somewhat of a fix, given that the character could do watch for 7 hours and -then- sleep for 1 hour and then regain spells. The issue with that is that you don't gain the benefits of it the second day you sleep, even though it functions once a day. .... I suppose one could take turns every other day with it, but I was wondering if there was a different way to do it.

Any suggestions? Or is trading off guard duty probably the only thing one could do if one wanted to pitch in during guard duty -and- regain spells?

[JonU]

Every group I played with always rotated guard shifts. This way everyone gets rested.

[GreyBlack]

Cast the Alarm spell. Done.

Edit: don't want to memorize it or add it to your spells known? Get a wand.

[nedz]

3 x 4 hour watches with casters on the first or last watch.

[Janthkin]

3 x 4 hour watches with casters on the first or last watch.Arcane casters, anyway. Clerics & druids don't care about sleep.

[Psyren]

Sorc can use their familiar. Bards can simply hide if they're alone, or sex up a cohort the local wildlife the bandits/drow slavers themselves a gullible sap in the party someone to take their shift.

[Âmesang]

7th+ level lawful-neutral/chaotic-neutral sorcerer with imp/quasit via Improved Familiar. Outsiders don't need to sleep, and I like the quasit 'cause it can take the shape of a guard… wolf …or just take bat-shape and watch whilst hiding.

[Vizzerdrix]

Bells and string, or buy a dog.

[Spore]

7th+ level lawful-neutral/chaotic-neutral sorcerer with imp/quasit via Improved Familiar. Outsiders don't need to sleep, and I like the quasit 'cause it can take the shape of a guard… wolf …or just take bat-shape and watch whilst hiding.

If your DM is as evil as mine you don't really want to leave guard duty to an evil outsider. :smallamused:

[Janthkin]

If your DM is as evil as mine you don't really want to leave guard duty to an evil outsider. :smallamused:That was my thought as well. Your evil familiar might have a reason to keep YOU alive, if you're lucky; your party, not so much.

[Troacctid]

Yet another reason why it's better to take a coure eladrin or lantern archon for your familiar instead.

[nedz]

Arcane casters, anyway. Clerics & druids don't care about sleep.

*reads thread title* — Well he could be a Divine Bard I suppose.

[paranoidbox]

As a sorcerer, you really should be able to cast Rope Trick. Aaaaand done. Guard duty? What guard duty?

[Jack_Simth]

Quick question before I need to get on with my daily business, and a question I'd had in mind for a bit. I was wondering how someone with magic could go about being on guard duty and still regain spells.
Well, there's a couple of basic scenarios:
1) You're a dedicated guard at a fixed location.
2) You're in a party with several other trusted people.
3) You're solo, or you don't trust anyone you're with.

In case 1, you just shift your schedule. You do your eight hour guard shift, go home, get rest, prepare spells, do whatever, and show up for your next shift.

In case 2, "night watch" is (9 hours / (number of people -1)) * number of people. Each person takes one short shift, and interruptions only add 1 hour to how long you need to rest. So in a party of four, that'd be: (9 hours / (number of people -1)) * number of people = (9 / (4-1))*4 = (9/3)*4 = 3*4=12. Each shift is 3 hours, and everyone takes a shift. Everyone gets nine hours of rest during night watch, which is enough for 8 hours + 1 for the interruption of guard duty. Note that in this case, "people" means "trusted people". In the special case of two people, it's two eight-hour shifts to avoid the interruption tax, rather than two nine hour shifts.

In case 3, you need to find a way to increment your number of trusted people. A familiar will help with that, as can Planar Bound guards, Faithful Hound, Alarm, Rope Trick, Magnificent Mansion, or several other things. Note that familiars are usually small enough that they can rest in your pocket while you adventure, so you're only down for eight hours a night.

[Troacctid]

As a sorcerer, you really should be able to cast Rope Trick. Aaaaand done. Guard duty? What guard duty?

As a Sorcerer? You don't necessarily know that many 2nd level spells. It's competing with spells like Alter Self, Glitterdust, Wings of Cover, Scorching Ray, Levitate, Invisibility, and Dimension Leap, so while you might learn it, I'd say it's a tough sell.

[GreyBlack]

As a Sorcerer? You don't necessarily know that many 2nd level spells. It's competing with spells like Alter Self, Glitterdust, Wings of Cover, Scorching Ray, Levitate, Invisibility, and Dimension Leap, so while you might learn it, I'd say it's a tough sell.

So a wand or scroll is what you're saying?

[Troacctid]

So a wand or scroll is what you're saying?

A runestaff, maybe. CL 3 from a scroll or wand won't last you the night.

[Necroticplague]

Simple: Have the cleric/druid do it. The idea or rotating watches is kinda a stupid idea in a world where there aren't any penalties for sleep deprivation. The divine caster in the party doesn't need sleep to regain their spells, and will typically have the highest Spot and Listen check of the whole party. So they pull watch duty, and get they're prayer on once the arcane casters, psionicists, meldshapers, and co. are awake. Similarly, the martials have no reason to sleep at all.

[Platymus Pus]

well a sorc can use this.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/k/keep-watch

[Jack_Simth]

Simple: Have the cleric/druid do it. The idea or rotating watches is kinda a stupid idea in a world where there aren't any penalties for sleep deprivation.
There kinda are, actually. You need to reset your day counter for things like the forced march rules.

Plus, of course, skipping sleep because there aren't any obvious RAW penalties is DM house-rule bait.

[nedz]

Plus, of course, skipping sleep because there aren't any obvious RAW penalties is DM house-rule bait.

I would apply Fatigued; and whilst you could just cast Lesser Restoration: I would probably limit it's effect to, at most, four hours.

[Necroticplague]

There kinda are, actually. You need to reset your day counter for things like the forced march rules.

Plus, of course, skipping sleep because there aren't any obvious RAW penalties is DM house-rule bait.

Actually, you don't. For forced marches, you just need to heal the nonlethal damage.
EDIT:Crap, read your statement wrong. Actual rebuttal below.

A day is an absolute measure of time, and has nothing to do with what you do during that time. 2 days still pass when the sun rises and sets twice, even if I've slept not a wink during that time.

EDIT EDIT: However, I realize that this is the case for a Hussle, which specifically mentions sleep cycles as it's period of time to make it reset.

[Jack_Simth]

I would apply Fatigued; and whilst you could just cast Lesser Restoration: I would probably limit it's effect to, at most, four hours.
Yes, that's one example. Of course, you don't appear to have looked past the first night just yet.

Ironically, most people are actually capable of staying up for several days straight if they have sufficient reason (which, of course, varies by individual). It's just unpleasant, and has side effects after a little while (most of which are mental, not physical - reduced attention span, slower reactions, reduced data retention, things of that nature).

Actually, you don't. For forced marches, you just need to heal the nonlethal damage.
EDIT:Crap, read your statement wrong. Actual rebuttal below.

A day is an absolute measure of time, and has nothing to do with what you do during that time. 2 days still pass when the sun rises and sets twice, even if I've slept not a wink during that time.

Largely irrelevant. It's DM bait even if there's no RAW penalties, just because it's such a huge break in immersion.


EDIT EDIT: However, I realize that this is the case for a Hussle, which specifically mentions sleep cycles as it's period of time to make it reset.
What few RAW penalties there are happen to be very minor, yes. Do note, though, that you're usually Hustling with combat movement, so it'll eventually catch up to you. Not that it matters. As I said: It's DM bait. It's not something you'll get away with at any 'normal' gaming table. When you run across one that's OK with drown-healing or continuing to act post-mortem because there's no specific consequences to the dead status, then not sleeping is going to be a minor thing. At most tables, though, it's going to be instant house-rule territory.

[LTwerewolf]

You can find out if you can have this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/k/keep-watch) spell.

[nedz]

Yes, that's one example. Of course, you don't appear to have looked past the first night just yet.

Appearances can be deceptive:


A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

[paranoidbox]

As a Sorcerer? You don't necessarily know that many 2nd level spells. It's competing with spells like Alter Self, Glitterdust, Wings of Cover, Scorching Ray, Levitate, Invisibility, and Dimension Leap, so while you might learn it, I'd say it's a tough sell.

I did say "should be able to cast", I never said it had to be a part of the sorcerer's spell complement. A runestaff is perfectly acceptable, though it's a matter of play style. In our campaigns there are usually not a lot of magic items around, or the gold to make them yourself, so I tend to choose Rope Trick as one of my spells known. On top of that, most of the spells you mentioned do not mesh well with how my DM runs his games.

Anyway, so yes, runestaff that sucker and sleep in peace every night!

[Agincourt]

I did say "should be able to cast", I never said it had to be a part of the sorcerer's spell complement. A runestaff is perfectly acceptable, though it's a matter of play style. In our campaigns there are usually not a lot of magic items around, or the gold to make them yourself, so I tend to choose Rope Trick as one of my spells known. On top of that, most of the spells you mentioned do not mesh well with how my DM runs his games.

Anyway, so yes, runestaff that sucker and sleep in peace every night!

This is really level dependent. The OP didn't say what level his character is, but in order for Rope Trick to be a viable option, it really should last 9 hours so that you are able to get your full 8 hours of rest and leave yourself time to enter and exit the extradimensional space.

Yes, by the time a sorcerer is level 9, it might be feasible to have him use one of his 4 spells known on Rope Trick or to spend thousands of dollars on a runestaff. I think you're assuming a bit much, though if he's lower level.

Take for example a 6th level sorcerer. He only knows two 2nd level spells to begin with. If he has to spend thousands of dollars on a runestaff, that doesn't leave a lot of wealth left. Also, he needs to metamagic the spell to be extended. If he uses his own feat then he uses up one of his three castings per day of a third level spell. He could buy a lesser metamagic rod of extend, but now we adding 3,000 GP on top of the amount he spends on a runestaff.

[Aleolus]

As a note, 3.5 doesn't say an arcane caster needs 8 hours of sleep to reprepare his spells, just 8 hours of rest. Rest is, iirc, described as avoiding strenuous activity, so a Sorc who sleeps for 6 hours and keeps watch for 2 has gotten his 8 hours of rest, as long as he didn't have to do anything strenuous (like battle) during the night

[MisterKaws]

The best spell he could cast before losing all slots, honestly, is Explosive Runes. Just five days worth of Explosive Runes being thrown by your friendly meatshield and right afterwards triggered by a CL-reduced readied area Dispel Magic can probably kill most things outside epics, maybe in epics too.

[paranoidbox]

The best spell he could cast before losing all slots, honestly, is Explosive Runes. Just five days worth of Explosive Runes being thrown by your friendly meatshield and right afterwards triggered by a CL-reduced readied area Dispel Magic can probably kill most things outside epics, maybe in epics too.

I'm not sure how this relates to the OP. Could you elaborate?

[Beheld]

No one before Aleolus gets it right:


As a note, 3.5 doesn't say an arcane caster needs 8 hours of sleep to reprepare his spells, just 8 hours of rest. Rest is, iirc, described as avoiding strenuous activity, so a Sorc who sleeps for 6 hours and keeps watch for 2 has gotten his 8 hours of rest, as long as he didn't have to do anything strenuous (like battle) during the night

You don't need 8 hours of sleep. Grab a Ring of Sustenance, sleep two ours and take your shift. Look at elves, they mediate for 4 hours and sit there awake on guard duty for 4 hours because they can.

Or the cleric can prepare Lesser Restoration, and the one person with the best spot/listen can just never sleep again for the rest of his life.

[zergling.exe]

And if you are neither a human nor an elf, you don't even need sleep or any equivalent at all.