Making Magical Training Equal to Hidden Talent and Shape Soulmeld

[SovelsAtaask]

In my new campaign, I'm allowing players to have their choice of Hidden Talent, Shape Soulmeld, or Magical Training as a bonus feat. However, someone brought it to my attention that Magical Training is definitely not equal to the other two, a couple cantrips aren't really as good as a soulmeld or even a level one power. What change should I make to have Magical Training be closer to these other two?

[Vizzerdrix]

Depends on what you pick and how they are used. The trade is versatility over power. Remember, you are getting up to 3 cantrips.

Message, Horizikaul's Cough, Ghost Sound, Light, No Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Open/Close, silent Portal, and Stick. All are decent options, some good enough to be first level spells on other lists.

If you wanted to make it stronger, you could open it up to all 0th level spells instead of just Sorc/Wiz.

[Troacctid]

Use the 5th Edition version. It gives you three cantrips and one 1st level spell.

[Chronos]

All are decent options, some good enough to be first level spells on other lists.
For instance, Mage Hand is equivalent to the first-level psionic power Far Hand (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/farHand.htm). So a character could use either Hidden Talent or Magical Training to pick up that ability, but using Magical Training they'd also get two other useful tricks, and could use their tricks more often.

[Troacctid]

You could also use the similar feats from Complete Arcane: Communicator, Insightful, Necropolis Born, Night Haunt, Soul of the North, and Spell Hand.

[SovelsAtaask]

Thank you for the help. I think part of the issue may be that compared to Shape Soulmeld, Magical Training is less powerful, but it's not much different than Hidden Talent.

I'm curious, has anyone else played or ran a game where every character was innately magical in a way similar to this?

[Troacctid]

I think part of the issue may be that compared to Shape Soulmeld, Magical Training is less powerful, but it's not much different than Hidden Talent.

I disagree. Hidden Talent has the additional benefit of making you a psionic character, allowing you to gain psionic focus, use psionic feats, and do other stuff that only psionic characters can do.

[Fizban]

Launch Item+Tanglefoot Bag is the strongest cantrip. You could also give out Dragonmarks. In comparing them I'd say Shape Soulmeld is generally the strongest, if you pick the right one and use an incarnum race, followed by Hidden Talent since IIRC you can just use it like your normal powers if you take a psionic class. Did Magical Training give you a spellbook? Because if so it allows you not just 3, but all the cantrips once you've bought or pillaged them, and even a single 1st level wizard already has all the cantrips free for the pillaging. All the cantrips is pretty good.

[Jack_Simth]

Launch Item+Tanglefoot Bag is the strongest cantrip. You could also give out Dragonmarks. In comparing them I'd say Shape Soulmeld is generally the strongest, if you pick the right one and use an incarnum race, followed by Hidden Talent since IIRC you can just use it like your normal powers if you take a psionic class. Did Magical Training give you a spellbook? Because if so it allows you not just 3, but all the cantrips once you've bought or pillaged them, and even a single 1st level wizard already has all the cantrips free for the pillaging. All the cantrips is pretty good.
A spellbook is one of the options with Magical Training yes... which becomes crazy-useful for a Sorcerer with the Versatile Spellcaster or Arcane Preparation feats.

[Troacctid]

Did Magical Training give you a spellbook? Because if so it allows you not just 3, but all the cantrips once you've bought or pillaged them, and even a single 1st level wizard already has all the cantrips free for the pillaging. All the cantrips is pretty good.

Only if you have a class spell list (which Magical Training doesn't give you). You can't copy a spell into your spellbook if it's not on your list (per RC p160).


A spellbook is one of the options with Magical Training yes... which becomes crazy-useful for a Sorcerer with the Versatile Spellcaster or Arcane Preparation feats.

Magical Training doesn't interact in any useful way with Versatile Spellcaster, since the latter feat doesn't give you any special ability to use spell slots from one class to cast spells that aren't from that class.

[Jack_Simth]

Magical Training doesn't interact in any useful way with Versatile Spellcaster, since the latter feat doesn't give you any special ability to use spell slots from one class to cast spells that aren't from that class.
Versatile Spellcaster doesn't list any particular requirements on where the slots come from, just that you burn two slots to cast a higher level spell that you know. Stuff in your spellbook is known (otherwise, it'd be really hard for a Wizard to qualify for Loremaster!), so you're fine.

Mind you, that's far too high-op for most tables, so it hardly matters.

[Troacctid]

Versatile Spellcaster doesn't list any particular requirements on where the slots come from, just that you burn two slots to cast a higher level spell that you know. Stuff in your spellbook is known (otherwise, it'd be really hard for a Wizard to qualify for Loremaster!), so you're fine.

Mind you, that's far too high-op for most tables, so it hardly matters.
Yes, but as a Sorcerer, you already have the ability to cast any spell you know.

A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must.
[...]
Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.
Versatile Spellcaster doesn't add anything special to the trick, beyond being a generally good feat.