Swift Hunter help!

[Val666]

Hello everyone c: I'll start a local game soon and wanted to try a Swift Hunter. I have read the handbooks but a lot of stuff comes from sources I'm not allowed. My DM told us to use Core (DM, MM & PH) + Completes (No Psionics). We can have max of 2 base classes and 1 prestige. Stats will be rolled later. I'm asking for suggestions on how to build a propper SH with the aftermentioned limitations. Thanks to everyone im advance, cheers!

[INoKnowNames]

Core + Completes, huh? But only 2 base classes, ooh.

Check to see if this feat is allowed. If so, you're golden. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) It's technically core, since it's on the SRD, and while it's in the Psionic Feat section, it's not actually a Psionic Feat. If you can get it, then that's an easy way to do the pew-pew-pews without a Cloistered Cleric dip or relying on too many magic items beyond your bow.

Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Swift Hunter, Many Shot, Greater Many Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Skirmish. Your levels in Scout and Ranger should help with the required feats to get it early enough to be useful. Human would give you a bonus feat if you want, and would help with some skills; otherwise get a race with a dex bonus and aim to be the group ninja. Pump Dex, get good Con to stay alive, get enough Int to handle the skills you want, enough Wis to be able to activate appropriate magic items, enough Str to avoid a carrying capacity penalty.

[Darrin]

My DM told us to use Core (DM, MM & PH) + Completes (No Psionics). We can have max of 2 base classes and 1 prestige. Stats will be rolled later.

Hmm... does the ban on psionics apply to Greater Manyshot? It's in the XPH, but has nothing to do with psionics.

TWF Swift Hunter (Greatsword/Unarmed Strike):

Race: Human.
1) Scout 1. Feat: Travel Devotion. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. Spiritual Connection ACF. FE Undead.
3) Ranger 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Bonus: TWF.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Scout 4. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Bonus: Swift Hunter. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 3. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
8) Ranger 4. Spiritual Guide ACF.
9) Ranger 5. Feat: Improved Skirmish. FE Constructs. Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6AC+4.
10) Ranger 6. Bonus: Improved TWF.
11) Highland Stalker 1.
12) Highland Stalker 2. Feat: Power Attack. Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
14) Ranger 8.
15) Ranger 9. Feat: Favored Power Attack. Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
16) Ranger 10. FE Elementals.
17) Ranger 11. Bonus: Greater TWF. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
18) Ranger 12. Feat: Cleave.
19) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
20) Ranger 14. 4th level spells.

If you prefer Archery, we can just go with Improved Rapid Shot:

Race: Human
1) Scout 1. Feat: PB Shot. Human: Precise Shot. Skirmish 1d6.
2) Ranger 1. Bonus: Track. FE Undead. Spiritual Connection ACF
3) Ranger 2. Bonus: Rapid Shot. Feat: Travel Devotion.
4) Scout 2.
5) Scout 3. Skirmish 1d6AC+1.
6) Ranger 3. Feat: Swift Hunter. Bonus: Endurance. Skirmish 2d6AC+1.
7) Ranger 4. Spiritual Guide ACF. Skirmish 2d6AC+2.
8) Ranger 5. FE Constructs.
9) Ranger 6. Bonus: Manyshot. Feat: Improved Rapid Shot. Skirmish 3d6AC+2.
10) Scout 4. Bonus: Improved Skirmish 3d6AC+2/5d6+4.
11) Highland Stalker 1.
12) Highland Stalker 2. Feat: Travel Devotion (x2). Skirmish 4d6AC+2/6d6AC+4.
13) Ranger 7. Skirmish 4d6AC+3/6d6AC+5.
14) Ranger 8.
15) Ranger 9. Feat: Travel Devotion (x3). Skirmish 5d6AC+3/7d6AC+5.
16) Ranger 10. FE Elementals.
17) Ranger 11. Bonus: Improved Precise Shot. Skirmish 5d6AC+4/7d6AC+6.
18) Ranger 12. Feat: Travel Devotion (x4) or EWP (Greatbow).
19) Ranger 13. Camouflage. Skirmish 6d6AC+4/8d6AC+6.
20) Ranger 14. 4th level spells.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I wrote a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473666-New-Scout-Handbook)! It's mostly for Scouts, but it covers Ranger stuff as well, and the primary goals (Skirmish) are the same.

Your main issue, I think, is the base class restriction-- you're already using both allowed classes, so dips are off the table. That makes some of the best methods harder or inaccessible.

Travel Devotion: The single best Skirmish method, bar none. But you can't get it with a Cleric dip, so powering it becomes problematic. You'll want to use a PrC to get Turn Undead, I think... but the easiest options are outside your sources. A two-level Ur-Priest dip is, as far as I can tell, the only way you could pick this up. Which is real rough-- you might as well spend the two feats you'd normally burn to qualify on taking Travel Devotion a few more times.
Pounce: I don't think you can get this. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian is off the table, Snow Tiger Berserker is off the table, Sphinx Claws are off the table...
Glide Speed: Debatable, but no relevant races in the listed material.
10ft Steps: Both methods are inaccessible.

I... honestly? I think your best bet is a Scout/Highland Stalker, AKA Swift Hunter Lite. It's a full-BAB PrC from Complete Adventurer that gives full Skirmish advancement and some Ranger features like Swift Tracker and Camouflage. Scout 7/Cleric 1 (any order you like)/Highland Stalker 10/Scout +2 would work alright.

[Troacctid]

Check to see if this feat is allowed. If so, you're golden. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) It's technically core, since it's on the SRD, and while it's in the Psionic Feat section, it's not actually a Psionic Feat.
The core books are the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. They're specifically labeled as such. The SRD contains non-core material.


I... honestly? I think your best bet is a Scout/Highland Stalker, AKA Swift Hunter Lite. It's a full-BAB PrC from Complete Adventurer that gives full Skirmish advancement and some Ranger features like Swift Tracker and Camouflage. Scout 7/Cleric 1 (any order you like)/Highland Stalker 10/Scout +2 would work alright.

No, I think you definitely want Ranger. Ignoring precision damage immunity is important. I'd go Scout 4/Ranger X.

[Grod_The_Giant]

No, I think you definitely want Ranger. Ignoring precision damage immunity is important. I'd go Scout 4/Ranger X.
Normally you'd be right, but look at the restrictions. There's no good way to move and attack available without dipping*, and you can only have two base classes. It's better to get precision damage on several shots in 80% of encounters than to get it on one shot in 100%. You might see if you could talk your DM into letting Grave Strike apply to Skirmish, given that it's so similar to Sneak Attack. It's not RAW but well worth a shot.


*Yes, you could take Travel Devotion several times, but that's not a great method-- Archery and TWF are both feat-hungry styles, and you're burning another two feats on Swift Hunter and Improved Skirmish. All of which you want ASAP.

[Troacctid]

But we're talking standard Cleric here, not Cloistered Cleric. I'd say the value goes down significantly when you aren't also getting free Knowledge Devotion and extra skill points.

You're getting bonus feats from Ranger and Scout. Assuming you're a human, you can get Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at 1st, Travel Devotion at 3rd, Improved Skirmish at 6th, Swift Hunter from Scout 4, and Rapid Shot from Ranger 2. That's about all the feats you need wrapped up by 6th level, yes? (Normally I'd try and get Able Learner or Nymph's Kiss in there too to boost the skill game, or Darkstalker for stealth, but none of those are allowed anyway, so it's no loss.)

[Rebel7284]

Well if all base classes are taken up, are there any prestige classes in allowed sources dipping which would give pounce or turn undead?

[Troacctid]

Well if all base classes are taken up, are there any prestige classes in allowed sources dipping which would give pounce or turn undead?

Blackguard and Ur-Priest grant rebuke undead at 3rd and 2nd level, respectively. Claws of the Leopard give you pounce for 38k gp.

[Grod_The_Giant]

But we're talking standard Cleric here, not Cloistered Cleric. I'd say the value goes down significantly when you aren't also getting free Knowledge Devotion and extra skill points.
Eh, the lesser skill points are no great loss, and it's not hard to get a second useful domain-- including Knowledge, if you so desire. It's not quite as good, but let's be honest-- the dip is worth if for Travel Devotion alone; anything else is gravy.

[Darrin]

No, I think you definitely want Ranger. Ignoring precision damage immunity is important. I'd go Scout 4/Ranger X.

17 levels of Scout/Ranger maxes out Skirmish damage at 5d6. Two levels of Highland Stalker gets you another +1d6 skirmish. Scout 4/Ranger 14 gets you a 4th level spell slot (if your Wis is at least 18). Or Scout 5/Ranger 13 gets evasion early, so you can trade Ranger's evasion for the Spell Reflection ACF.


Well if all base classes are taken up, are there any prestige classes in allowed sources dipping which would give pounce or turn undead?

Hmm. Extra Spell *might* get dismissal into a 4th level Ranger slot, which could open up Sacred Exorcist... but on top of 14 levels of Ranger and 4 levels of Scout, it would come in very, very late.

Pounce is tricky... Geomancer 7 can get it, but that doesn't leave much room for Swift Hunter. The [wild] feat Lion's Pounce is available, but you need wild shape for that.

There is another way to get two 5' steps in the allowed sources: Net and Trident Style (Complete Warrior) gets an extra 5' step when you throw a net. Quickdraw some tridents and wade in for some Oversized TWF, but this doesn't work all that well with Improved Skirmish.

[Rebel7284]

Blackguard and Ur-Priest grant rebuke undead at 3rd and 2nd level, respectively. Claws of the Leopard give you pounce for 38k gp.

Ooh, a fair use of Ur Priest!

Base will save requirements are difficult, but Scout 3/Ranger 6/Ur Priest 2/Scout +1/Ranger +8 would work super well. Level 11 is a while to wait to get your main ability though. On the bright side, Otyugh Hole for a free Iron Will is in the allowed sources. :D