[3.5] Plane Shift Ressurection

[Xalos]

Just a quick question: Can you Plane Shift to a deities plane (heaven/hell) and then plane shift back with a soul as an alternative to Resurrection? Cpuld this be a loophole to Barghest's Feast?

[Fouredged Sword]

Just a quick question: Can you Plane Shift to a deities plane (heaven/hell) and then plane shift back with a soul as an alternative to Resurrection? Cpuld this be a loophole to Barghest's Feast?

Not really. The spell expressly states you cannot use any form of resurrection requiring a part of the creature. Even if you got a part of the creature through shenanigans, the spell would fail still. Even spells that don't require that component fail 50% of the time.

While getting your hands on the soul directly can aid resurrection, it won't help in this case.

Barghest's Feast does more than simply burn the body. It magically prevents resurrection.

[Jowgen]

When a soul departs its living body and reaches its "final reward" or "true afterlife" in whatever outer plane its faith and/or alignment stipulates, it becomes a "Petitioner". There is quite a bit of variance on what the petitioners of different planes are like (see MotP); but most of them have something called "Planar Commitment". They can't leave their planes, period.

There are a few petitioner types that don't have planar commitment; but from what I recall, those are all the ones that become a new type of creature: soul larvae, Manes, Lantern Archons, etc. So yes, you might be able to go and grab that particular soul, but it won't be the same creature anymore, although arguably having the soul on hand makes Resurrection-type magic cheaper (I think Ghostwalk has rules for that)

[Graypairofsocks]

There are a few petitioner types that don't have planar commitment; but from what I recall, those are all the ones that become a new type of creature: soul larvae, Manes, Lantern Archons, etc. So yes, you might be able to go and grab that particular soul, but it won't be the same creature anymore, although arguably having the soul on hand makes Resurrection-type magic cheaper (I think Ghostwalk has rules for that)

They are the same person, but they have lost their memories of their past life.
I think there are ways for them to regain them though.

[Cerefel]

They are the same person, but they have lost their memories of their past life.
I think there are ways for them to regain them though.

When all else fails, Mindrape.

[Necroticplague]

More relevantly than a planar comitment, being a petitioner also makes you lose all but 2 HD. As a result, coming back in this way would leave you at level 2. considering how powerful you are at the level where 'march into heaven, grab soul, run like heck' is a viable option, tyhis is likkely gonna be a considerable downgrade. And no, it doesn't loophole around things that prevent resurrection, because those things destroy the soul, so there's no associated petitioner to look for.

[Graypairofsocks]

When all else fails, Mindrape.

Miracle or Wish would probably be a better choice.

[Bronk]

How about Plane Shift Resurrection in the other direction?

First, the person who is about to die would back themselves up using a thought bottle.

After they die, their friends find out where they've gone, then plane shift to the deceased instead of the other way around. When they find the probable 2HD petitioner with no memories, they correct that with the thought bottle. Now the petitioner has it's memories back as well as its full levels.

Finally, they use more magic to transform the petitioner into something else to avoid their planar commitment. A PAO could transform them into another outsider permanently, but could be dispelled, and the person would probably be yanked back to the afterlife whenever the spell failed. A more powerful ritual or wish might turn them back to themselves or something new permanently, give them their soul back, and negate the planar commitment.

(If the deceased didn't have a planar commitment in the first place, I guess you would have to negotiate with the new creature, but otherwise you'd be good to go...)

[torrasque666]

That's a sure way to earn a powerful being's ire though. Namely, whichever entity the petitioner serves.

[Bronk]

That's a sure way to earn a powerful being's ire though. Namely, whichever entity the petitioner serves.

You'd better believe it! All the better for the DM, I guess!

Edit: Even if they were able to cherry pick their own afterlife, they would still be prime targets for Marut Inevitables.

[Graypairofsocks]

How about Plane Shift Resurrection in the other direction?

First, the person who is about to die would back themselves up using a thought bottle.

After they die, their friends find out where they've gone, then plane shift to the deceased instead of the other way around. When they find the probable 2HD petitioner with no memories, they correct that with the thought bottle. Now the petitioner has it's memories back as well as its full levels.

Finally, they use more magic to transform the petitioner into something else to avoid their planar commitment. A PAO could transform them into another outsider permanently, but could be dispelled, and the person would probably be yanked back to the afterlife whenever the spell failed. A more powerful ritual or wish might turn them back to themselves or something new permanently, give them their soul back, and negate the planar commitment.

(If the deceased didn't have a planar commitment in the first place, I guess you would have to negotiate with the new creature, but otherwise you'd be good to go...)

You may have to consider how the experience restoring function of the Thought Bottle is going to react with the petitioner having racial HD.

I think all (or maybe just most) petitioners lose their memories of their past life, not just ones without planar commitment.

Negotiating may not be necessary. By the time you are able to get a Thought Bottle you should be able to force the average petitioner to restore the experience from the bottle.
On the other hand the dead person may not be a base form of petitioner when you find them, as I think particularly powerful individuals may be promoted to a more advanced form. In that case you probably will have to negotiate.


That's a sure way to earn a powerful being's ire though. Namely, whichever entity the petitioner serves.
I think most petitioners don't serve any particular deity or being.


You'd better believe it! All the better for the DM, I guess!

Edit: Even if they were able to cherry pick their own afterlife, they would still be prime targets for Marut Inevitables.
Maruts only care if you resurrect people in massive amounts.

[Bronk]

Maruts only care if you resurrect people in massive amounts.

That's one of their triggers but all three are:



Any who use unnatural means to extend their life span could be targeted by a marut. Those who take extraordinary measures to cheat death in some other way might be labeled transgressors as well. Those who use magic to reverse death aren’t worthy of a marut’s attention unless they do so repeatedly or on a massive scale.

This would be one person at a time, but considering the hoops being jumped through, and not using regular resurrection magic?

Abducting and altering a soul would probably trigger the 'extraordinary measures' clause, and ending up with an immortal outsider body would probably trigger the 'unnaturally extending their life span' clause.

[Milo v3]

Well, not all souls become petitioners, so the chances of it working might be small.