[3.5] Gestalt PsyWar build advice?

[lonewulf]

Hi, Playground. Im looking for some general build advice and tips for a Gestalt campaign I will be playing in. I am restricted in some big ways but I think there is still plenty fun to be had!

Restrictions: 1 side of the character is straight Psychic Warrior all the way to 20.
Race is Elan, no changing it.
Stats will be determined by rolling (grid system) so just assume i can meet any stat requirements other than Charisma.
No 3rd party, Forgotten Realms or Dragon material (Compendium is an exception)

My thoughts so far: Im considering pairing with Swordsage. The other 2 players will be a Rogue-type and a Buffer/Healer. Im looking at trying for survivability over damage output but a little damage is always nice. Im not, however, ruling out a damage dealer.
Also considered pairing with Ardent to double up on Psionics.

Any advice, suggestions, tips, flaming, roasting, flogging or just outright ignoring is welcomed! Really, anything at all.

EDITS: Power Points from 2 Psionic classes pool together (mostly). Starting level is 2 so early level playability is a must. I dont want to be TOO skill- monkey-ish or TOO buff-happy as I dont want to step on the toes of the other 2 players. Thanks for all the replies so far!

[Nifft]

PsiWar // Ardent is a poor mix because you don't sum your power point reserve -- you just get the max, which is the Ardent's single-class points. You keep your mid-BAB and poor skills.

A better pairing might be PsiWar // Cloistered Cleric. You're getting PsiWar buffs on top of Cleric buffs, plus great skill points and a nice skill list.

PsiWar // Druid is fun, because all the Claw powers work with natural weapons, and powers like Expansion stack with animal form base sizes.

In that same vein, a more focused wild-shape build might be PsiWar // Wildshape Ranger 5 / MoMF 10 / Warshaper 5.

Another highly-defensive mix might be PsiWar // Wildshape Monk 5 / MoMF 10 / ....

[lonewulf]

Thanks for the reply, I knew I left something out of my original post...DM ruling that Power Points WILL pool (but at some weird 3/4 rate that i was too sleepy to understand, lol)

[Nifft]

Thanks for the reply, I knew I left something out of my original post...DM ruling that Power Points WILL pool (but at some weird 3/4 rate that i was too sleepy to understand, lol)

Depending on the specifics, then, Ardent may not be a terrible choice -- but at that point, you need to really dig in and decide how to build your Ardent side. IMHO the Ardent is a very poorly balanced class, and some Mantles are fine while others are just awful.

IMHO a Druid or Cloistered Cleric is going to be a lot easier to build and stronger in play.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Crusader is usually a good gestalt choice (even with low Charisma), and perhaps the best tank in the game. You could even expand that into a Ruby Knight Vindicator build for added potency.

[lonewulf]

Thanks for all the advice so far, I added some extra things to the bottom of my original post.

[MisterKaws]

Warblade should be a good choice, and being an Elan, you'll probably want to go the King of Smack route and get full BAB so you can get (Improved)Rapidstrike. If you really go this route, be sure to grab Shape Soulmeld(Girallon Arms) and Open Lesser Chakra(Arms) for the rend attack.

[Necroticplague]

Psion (Shaper) could let you add a splash of battlefeild control, debuffing, and summoning to your mix, as well as increase your PP pool. A dip in Monk for Tashlatora would also be useful (especially if combined with Beast Strike).

[SangoProduction]

Why not go full totemist on the other side of Psywarrior. Pick up some of those feats that benefit both psionics and meldshaping. Or just pick another psionic class and go from a nearly infinite fuel source to a truly infinite one.

[Troacctid]

Does LA apply to both sides of the gestalt? If not, a template would be great. Shadow, Lolth-Touched, Half-Fey, and the BoED version of Half-Celestial are all strong choices that you could take at your level. (Phrenic, Saint, and Mulhorandi Divine Minion are also good, but Phrenic requires a non-psionic base creature, Saint requires a 6th level character, and you're probably not using the Mulhorandi pantheon if Forgotten Realms is off the table.) Two levels in the half-fiend (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a) template class would be decent as well.

[mabriss lethe]

General gestalt pointers:

1. Look for classes that key off of the same ability scores as your first gestalt class: Wisdom is a pretty big deal to a psywar. Divine casting classes immediately come to mind. You could go for a cleric build, but you might wind up being far more cleric than Psywar. Ranger has an ok spell list and full BAB, but isn't really all that good of a fit. If I went this route, I'd go for Paladin with Battle Blessing. Paladins have full BAB and a pretty solid spell list to begin with (and some good ways to have even better spell lists) BB converts most of your list to swift action casting time, which is always good for the action economy, though not quite as good on a psywar build, simply because you'll already have a lot of swift action options. If you went this route, you'd also have plenty of potential uses for turn undead attempts, and a decent point of entry into RKV. However, managing your resources could get pretty complicated. You might want to try a simpler option which brings us to.....

2. Look for classes that grant passive or long term abilities. This goes back to the whole action economy thing I mentioned earlier. It's not a bad plan to have one side focus on active abilities while letting the other handle passive buffs/debuffs. Binders are a good choice, even with a low charisma. As is the Dragon Shaman's Draconic Auras. Warlocks or DFAs could also find a good niche here, since many invocations are 24 hr. duration, and it gives you a supply of at-will abilities to fall back on if you blow your PP reserve. If you wanted to double up on psionic classes, you could pick up Divine Mind (see also wisdom synergy) Though it's a notoriously wonky class and its auras don't really get good until later in the game.

3. Cover your gaps. Look for classes that improve your primary class's basic chassis. Look for classes that give you bigger hit dice, better BAB, different good saves, or more skill points. Psywar gets good fort saves natively and will have a middling good will save due to a high wisdom score. They have a poor skill point pool and 3/4 BAB. You're not going to find a class that will bump everything, but you should look for a combination that will improve at least a few. It'll likely break down into Better BAB+Better HD or More skill points+better saves.

[MisterKaws]

the BoED version of Half-Celestial

Is this a thing? Just skimmed through mine and saw nothing.

Edit: Found it, quite ridiculously OP tho...

[Flickerdart]

Since you're all PsyWar on one side, the other side is open for prestige classes! Check out some of the 5/10 psionics advancing PrCs like Psychic Weapon Master that are lame as-is but are worth it if you have full manifesting from somewhere else.

[lonewulf]

So, an update and a request for more advice (and a huge thank you for all who have posted!): Character creation got delayed because "life happens" and is now set for the 21st. Which is great because now I have more information to go off of!

After talking with the other 2 players (an Archivist/Dragon Shaman and a Rogue/Undecided), it seems a Tank is what's needed. So I'd like to try a Psychic Warrior/Crusader. Ive never played a Tank before but im excited to play it!

Im considering an AoO build and possibly some Spiked Chain tripping but that is pretty feat intensive. Not worried about stats as ive gotten those rolled now (18, 17, 16, 16, 16, 16: DM was worried we would struggle even with Gestalt so stats ended up boosted).
Race is still Elan, Psychic Warrior no longer has to be all 20 levels, Prestige can be done on both sides even at the same level. No flaws. I PREFER to be Chaotic Good.

So....advice and ideas would be much appreciated. Doesnt have to be high op but it can be. Thank you all.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So, an update and a request for more advice (and a huge thank you for all who have posted!): Character creation got delayed because "life happens" and is now set for the 21st. Which is great because now I have more information to go off of!

After talking with the other 2 players (an Archivist/Dragon Shaman and a Rogue/Undecided), it seems a Tank is what's needed. So I'd like to try a Psychic Warrior/Crusader. Ive never played a Tank before but im excited to play it!

Im considering an AoO build and possibly some Spiked Chain tripping but that is pretty feat intensive. Not worried about stats as ive gotten those rolled now (18, 17, 16, 16, 16, 16: DM was worried we would struggle even with Gestalt so stats ended up boosted).
Race is still Elan, Psychic Warrior no longer has to be all 20 levels, Prestige can be done on both sides even at the same level. No flaws. I PREFER to be Chaotic Good.

So....advice and ideas would be much appreciated. Doesnt have to be high op but it can be. Thank you all.Go out and Google for the King of Smack build. Now add some dungeoncrasher fighter, Knockback, Knock-Down, Shock Trooper, tripping, and maneuvers.

[Artillery]

So, an update and a request for more advice (and a huge thank you for all who have posted!): Character creation got delayed because "life happens" and is now set for the 21st. Which is great because now I have more information to go off of!

After talking with the other 2 players (an Archivist/Dragon Shaman and a Rogue/Undecided), it seems a Tank is what's needed. So I'd like to try a Psychic Warrior/Crusader. Ive never played a Tank before but im excited to play it!

Im considering an AoO build and possibly some Spiked Chain tripping but that is pretty feat intensive. Not worried about stats as ive gotten those rolled now (18, 17, 16, 16, 16, 16: DM was worried we would struggle even with Gestalt so stats ended up boosted).
Race is still Elan, Psychic Warrior no longer has to be all 20 levels, Prestige can be done on both sides even at the same level. No flaws. I PREFER to be Chaotic Good.

So....advice and ideas would be much appreciated. Doesnt have to be high op but it can be. Thank you all.

Psychic Warrior 6 / Slayer 10 / Sanctified Mind 4 on one side: BAB 18, ML 18 for PsyWar powers also lots of immunities. HD are d8 at all levels. 4+int skills past lvl 6.
If you want to hit things better and get beefier with some nice Metamorphosis.
Psion Egoist 8/ Anarchic Initiate 10/ Psion +2: Full ML 20 for Psion powers and can overchannel or wildsurge
If you'd rather make minions to face tank for you, and would just use Expanded Knowledge of Metamorphosis.
Psion Shaper 4/ Constructor 10/ Anarchic Initiate 6: ML 18 for Psion powers but very good astral constructs

[Troacctid]

Use a guisarme if you want to trip. Spiked chains aren't better enough to justify the feat—you can just plug the gap in your reach with armor spikes.

In gestalt, I'm a fan of Elocater, since you don't have to lose manifester levels, and it's easy to qualify for with a full-BAB class on the other side.

[Pluto!]

Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind maneuvers do good things with Psychic Warrior melee strategies.

I would strongly consider Warblade alongside (or Swordsage, but I value the improved chassis over the higher AC).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind maneuvers do good things with Psychic Warrior melee strategies.

I would strongly consider Warblade alongside (or Swordsage, but I value the improved chassis over the higher AC).Swordsages also have most of the best utility and mobility maneuvers, as well. Psychic warriors are fantastic at offense and defense with decent choices in powers and feats, but they don't really get enough power points to handle combat and out of battle utility.

Of course, there's nothing saying you can't multiclass on the other side. It's not like ToB hurts you in the multiclassing department. Definitely take swordsage (or another high skill class) at level 1 for boosted skill points.

[lonewulf]

Thanks for all the advice so far. In regards to ACFs, The DM has nixed those, unfortunately. Alignment restrictions are in play, which is a shame, because Ruby Knight Vindicator looked fun.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Thanks for all the advice so far. In regards to ACFs, The DM has nixed those, unfortunately. Alignment restrictions are in play, which is a shame, because Ruby Knight Vindicator looked fun.All ACFs? Can you use the soulbound psychic warrior from The Mind's Eye article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)?

[lonewulf]

All ACFs? Can you use the soulbound psychic warrior from The Mind's Eye article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a)?

ALL acfs, unfortunately....DM doesnt like them.