OOTS #465 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

Wednesday's comic is now up. (Along with Tuesday's Erfworld.)

[CardinalFang]

HAHAHAHAHA. My neighbors are probably wondering why I'm laughing so loud right now...

[Tulisin]

No, wait, they can rebuild her, better, stronger, faster, like robopaladin!

[David Demola]

Let the Miko getting revived theorisms begin.

[Twitchel]

Good. A nice bit of irony.

[Sage in the Playground]

Heh heh heh.

[Itdano]

That is a complete 31 flavors of awesome. And win. Both.

[Puck]

Ah, you just wanted us to THINK Miko was going to be a Death Knight for a second.

You know you read the forums. Sometimes, you do it just so you can torque people's expectations.

Good comic.

[phillyphil]

That could have been... Interesting.

[Yogi]

Well, it seems like Team Evil is close to where Miko is. There's still the chance that they might meet again.

[Skyserpent]

got ma hopes up ye did...

[Gleanerizer]

Thank the relevant deities we didn't go down that road.

[Ezlo]

Rich you tease! You were THIS close to giving the rabid fans what they wanted, and I'm sure you knew it as well. Good job!

[Admiral_Kelly]

I love it when webcomic authors (un)intentionally cull off-the-wall fan speculation! And the banter amongst Team Evil was hysterical.

[puddingpie]

Heh, interesting take on just how wounded Redcloak is.

Though I am a little surprised that Tsukiko doesn't recognize Miko, considering her having been the most powerful paladin in the city, with something of a fearsome reputation.

[Aquillion]

Well, it seems like Team Evil is close to where Miko is. There's still the chance that they might meet again.Notice that Xykon didn't even recognize her in the throne room, though (although to be fair, he didn't get to look at her for long, and was sort of distracted by being about to get 'killed'.)

He didn't recognize Tsukiko, either. I don't think Xykon is really a people person.

[Kyace]

Heh, interesting take on just how wounded Redcloak is.

Though I am a little surprised that Tsukiko doesn't recognize Miko, considering her having been the most powerful paladin in the city, with something of a fearsome reputation.

The most powerful paladin whom kept getting sent away from the city... Eh, you can't know everybody.

[Zoolooman]

Oh man. I'm laughing so hard. Sometimes, a little spite makes for a lot of funny.

[Ridureyu]

I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT!


At first, I thought, "Redcloak's gonna get murdered?' Then "Tsukiko's gonna get murdered?" Then, "LOLZORZ!"


Good work.

[Burrito]

Oh so close, yet oh so far away. OOTS 1 Crazy Forum Theories 0

[basilisk 89]

Haha. There's always a chance of Frankenmiko.

[Quikngruvn]

Ouch! Dissed by the theurge! And a peek into the inner workings of Team Evil. Hi-larious!

[Querzis]

Heh, interesting take on just how wounded Redcloak is.

I'm pretty sure he was in the negative, it seems he wasnt even concious when Xykon was dragging him. Anyway, why are they whining? Miko saved their lives after all.

[BenjCano]

Ahhhh! GAHAAAH!!!!!! MEEEEEEEHHHH!!!!

So close too. . .oh. . .loudest laughter I've given the strip in ages.


AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!

[neoliyang]

Well, its kinda funny to see that :xykon: and:redcloak: don't in fact care.

[soni]

noobs... ya gotta love them!

[Porthos]

"It probably wouldn't have been all that powerful anyway."

When, oh when, will characters learn not to say things like that. :smalltongue:

A much needed break of laughter in this one. And it's doubly good since it outta shut up all of the Undead!Freakaziod!Miko theories. :smallamused:

ETA: And it looks like we officially have a new member of Team Evil. I wonder if the Creature in the Darkness is going to be jealous or not. :smallyuk:

[Duffren]

A few thousand corpses you say? All of them good-aligned too no doubt. I dont think the 12 Gods are going to be as kind to Miko as Soon was...

[MReav]

Haha. There's always a chance of Frankenmiko.

Screw that, I want DragoonMiko. Her life for Aiur!

[Lord Zentei]

"We're villains. We play rough."

Heh. Though it must be pointed out, had Redcloak not snubbed Tsukiko, they might have pulled off a close win aganist Soon: a few more negative energy spells and Xykon would have been to full health.

[Shular]

Lol...I love it. Great one Giant

[Raistlin1040]

Death Knight Miko. Alas, we hardly knew ye.

[puddingpie]

Haha. There's always a chance of Frankenmiko.

You know who isn't cut in half?

.. Roy. :P

[Terraxos]

Ha, I love the last few panels. I don't think the message (that Miko's not coming back) could be any clearer... but there's still a chance we could see a resurrected, zombified Roy! :smallsmile:

(Also: ooh, so this is what being on the first page of the comic thread feels like...)

(Added: Gah, too late! Ah well, maybe next time.)

[Gavin Sage]

Blackguard fans you have been owned!

[Tach13]

OK, call me a weirdo, but I'm glad Miko didn't get animated. She was annoying, but for that to happen to a loyal (if completely misguided to the point of stupid) paladin would be the worst punishment possible. I'm amazed at how sorry I feel for an annoying comic character, but that's what a writer like Rich does, brings every character to life.

On the other hand "That makes it even funnier" was a great line for the comedy end of it.

[shaddy_24]

That was funny. Tsukiko gets no sympathy from Xykon, despite what she thought. Heads up! Team Evil isn't quite as nice as Team Good!

And with the powerful undead to kill Redcloak, that was nothing more than bluster. No matter who or what corpse she came across at that point, she would have made an excuse. "Oh, he's too low leveled, she's not whole enough, I don't think he'd work because... magical reasons..." Any undead she made, he could rebuke into submission or control or kill with ease. If she actually made one with free will that was strong enough to kill Redcloak, she would have no way of controling it. So it would have just wandered off, ignoring her pathetic rebuke attempts of a level 3-5 cleric. Ooooo, scary.

[Blood]

So... close... :smallamused:

[DrivinAllNight]

So close to being a black guard, but she will be walking by the other half in a second :)

[Platinum_Mongoose]

You just know this is the Giant's way of pre-empting as many "return of Miko" topics as possible.

I'm liking the new kid. Go Team Evil!

[Human Paragon 3]

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Redcloak = LOL
Miko= LOLx2

[Belkon]

That really was a direct stab at all the "Miko will be a Blackguard" posters... sorry folks Miko has officially checked out this material realm.

[Blaznak]

Ahhhh - Hahahahahahaaa!!!!!

I love this new kid.


"He tried to drop a castle on me".


Hahahahaaaa....

[RedScholarGypsy]

I think what we have here is a cleaning of the slate/ preping for next Gate Arc. As last time, we had a new antagonist introduced as the Gate was destroyed (Miko). She is now dead, and has been clearly left for dead by her replacement new antagonist (Tsukiko). The Linear Guild is ocne again free from the prison, and the Order has to flee from the massive explosion and such. The cycle starts anew.

I'm also wondering where V is. It had 13 minutes of invis, and I'm thinking that's up. Should be interesting.

[Miraqariftsky]

Heh, interesting take on just how wounded Redcloak is.

Though I am a little surprised that Tsukiko doesn't recognize Miko, considering her having been the most powerful paladin in the city, with something of a fearsome reputation.


Maybe that's because Miko was always being sent off on long-haul missions and Tsukiko was locked up in ye olde Azure City Antimagic Maximum Security Penitentiary.

[the mysterian]

yay implyed message of staying dead ^_^

[NeonRonin]

:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: Oooooo, so deliciously close to Miko the Death Knight... you do enjoy taunting the readers, dontcha, Rich?

Not that I'm complaining. Funny stuff there. Keep it up!

[SamDerringer]

Nothing like seeing disappointed fans... But I still like the theory of Roy and Miko meeting in the afterlife...

[UncredibleHallq]

A lot can happen in one strip, though. I know on a meta-game level that that he's just effectively told us Miko isn't coming back, but unfortunately he put the villians in the same area as Miko's body, something I found totally surprising. I thought if anyone would have raised her, it would have been the good guys, and only maybe then might she have converted to Evil...

So much can happen in one strip...

[Mad Scientist]

"Oh wait . . That's only half. I need a whole corpse"

So funny!!

[Tordek]

What kind of a free-willed undead could she have been? That girl didn't seem to have the strength/ability to make a Death Knight, and I was pretty sure that a Blackguard had to be alive to function.

Still, I think it would be cool for her to show up one day in a mighty 'Oh, snappage!' sort of way.

[Tirian]

Notice that Xykon didn't even recognize her in the throne room, though (although to be fair, he didn't get to look at her for long, and was sort of distracted by being about to get 'killed'.)

He didn't recognize Tsukiko, either. I don't think Xykon is really a people person.

X has some pretty well-established problems with his memory.

[Estelindis]

Pure brilliance! Looks like our little mystic theurge is going to have to rough it for a while. The joke in the last few panels was utterly priceless. Yes, the first creature you came across would not have been worth the effort... Not at all...

[Ithekro]

Yay, an end to the 28 page, 800+ long, #464 Discussion Thread of pointless circular logic verse circular reasoning arguements. :smallbiggrin:

[TroyXavier]

Mmmm, Miko avoids an evil transformation yet again. I think Rich is just teasing people.:smallbiggrin:

[F.H. Zebedee]

Actually, Miko's method of death, though brutal, lends her a lot more to use by the good guys than by the villains. Resurrection works better than animation on some styles of injury (is it only true rez that works on just a part, though?)

I'm just hoping Roy's also pretty far away. No zombie PCs, pleaaaase.

Good comic, and I must say I love seeing the speculators get kicked in the teeth. :smalltongue:

[Swordguy]

Oh...sonova...

SO...CLOSE!

Nice!

[kreszantas]

good thing Miko got sown asunder otherwise she would have achieve the only goal left EWG :smallfurious:

[flamingoptimus]

Full Corpse?

Does that mean ... she's gonna animate :roy: as an undead?

[e1_conquistador]

Do it do it do it!!!
Omigod puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze! Think how great that would be? All the Miko fans would get to see Miko running around, and all the haters would get to know she's condemned to a life of evil servitude. Everyone wins! :smallsmile:

Ok, so she's only half the woman she used to be. I do believe she's head and shoulders above the competition, though. She'd bite your legs off!!!

(OMG, do the black knight thing!! how great would THAT be?!)
Miko: It's only a scratch.
Belkar: A scratch? Your arm and legs are off!
Miko: No, they aren't.
Belkar: Well, what's that then?
Miko: I've had worse...

[Zoolooman]

Full Corpse?

Does that mean ... she's gonna animate :roy: as an undead?

I'd think not. Not only is Roy a main character, but he's also in the middle of a blasted field. He's nowhere near the villains, and frankly, there isn't any reason to drag out this part of the plot by making him an undead.

[Ithekro]

Well the remaining Good guys are between her and Roy's body...way out there beyond the wall.

[LordVader]

OMG LOL!!! And we cut from solemn death scene to slapstick humor again.:smallbiggrin: Gotta love Rich.

[Zienth]

Wonderful! That was really good. Thank you, Rich.

Zienth

[Xeticus]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I hope this is the closest we ever get to getting Miko back. And I hope the new chick stays around for a long time.

[Doyobisan]

He didn't recognize Tsukiko, either. I don't think Xykon is really a people person.

All living people look the same to undead.

[Bluefin]

So very, very close. Heh. Wonder how long Tsukiko is going to stick around?

[tiroskassie]

Wouldnt have been that powerful anyway...

That's hilarious! lol


Thanks for the great strip! :haley:

[Victor Thorian]

hahaahhahahaah
*breathe*
ahahaahahahah

most impressive, Mr. Giant.

[spite48]

This strip made me chuckle like a villain.
That happens with OOTS every once in a while.
I savour those moments almost as much as the "Oh crud I'm laughing out loud at work: they'll think I'm mad" moments.

[Mojique]

No, wait, they can rebuild her, better, stronger, faster, like robopaladin!

Great!:biggrin:

[EagleWiz]

Nah. Tsukos going to see roy and make some excuse for not animating him.
:smallwink:

[Dentarg]

Argh, that was evil, Giant! You made me think for a split second we were gonna see an undead Miko.

...I salute you for a job well done. You can have my cookies for the day. :smallbiggrin:

- Dentarg

[Tussy the Druid]

Haha I love how Xykon is so powerful yet dumber than a tree stump.

[VariaVespasa]

That really was a direct stab at all the "Miko will be a Blackguard" posters... sorry folks Miko has officially checked out this material realm.

Jeeze, pontificate much? How much do you have invested in her staying good and dead anyway??

Most of the Miko theories require her to be alive, not undeadified. I fail to see the connection between not being undeadified and never being raised. Perhaps you can 'splain yourself? The reasons for at least trying to raise her (and thus enabling those assorted theories) seem as sound as ever still. Whether they will actually try, CAN actually try (dunno how many clerics AC has left at the moment), and whether she will want to return even if they do try are all seperate issues, but not being animated is hardly any kind of proof that she wont be raised...

Personally I dont care one way or the other, as long as the story is good, and most of us wouldnt still be reading the strip if it wasnt good. The Giant will do what he does, and I'm happy enough to just watch it unfold, or, lately, blow up. :P

But Miko wouldnt have made a strong undead- she would only have been as strong as the stitching holding the 2 halves together... :P

[jnola]

"Oh man, that's even funnier."

LOL :smallbiggrin:

[Demented]

But that one was a good tease.

At least, for the first couple'a panels. The finishing line was lackluster, but the second-to-last panel carried it over.

[Khaldan]

THAT was funny :)

[EntilZha]

OMIGOD!! That was too funny. Would've been an interesting twist for all the people who were predicting Miko the Blackguard.

[Winged One]

The hobgoblins' reactions to Xykon bringing in Redcloak really showed how devoted they are to him...

And it really is astounding how Xykon routinely does things he can't technically do, like smell things and fall asleep.:smallsmile:

[TheLogman]

And then, in that one split second, I heard a thousand voices crying out: "Why Rich Whyyyyy? An undead Miko would have been aweeeesome!" But I silence their voices, cause they must not have been paying much attention to Miko's character development.

[Haruspex]

Tsukiko is a human who isn't undead. Wonder how long she'll last in Team Evil. That said, I like the way she planned to off Redcloak with a reanimated Miko wearing cool red and black armor and take over his job. Nice one Giant.

[MReav]

Now, my question is: will the Miko Smiley be replaced by the Tsukiko Smiley?

[synnerman]

Noooooooooooooo I wanted Zombie Death Maiden Miko!

Maybe we'll get Zombie Ubermensch Roy?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Roy WILL come back. Basic premise of storytelling. You can's start with one main character, kill him/her off, then continue writing as if nothing ever happened.

And that means Miko MIGHT come back. I think Roy and Miko will have a chat in Celestia's Waiting Room first. Redemption, without going Blackguard first? Who woulda seen it?

But first, Azure City needs to boot out, what? 30,000 hobgoblin warriors, backed up by hobgoblin clerics, Tsukiko, Xykon, Redcloak, and maybe even the MitD. Belkar is just ONE psycho, and still has the MoJ on his forehead. Give the man a break!

This webcomic will go to at least 1000, and I'm expecting around 1500... We're not even halfway through!

[EdgarVerona]

ROFL!!!

PERFECT follow-up! I love it!

[Merlin the Tuna]

Roy WILL come back. Basic premise of storytelling. You can's start with one main character, kill him/her off, then continue writing as if nothing ever happened.Of course not. But you can certainly continue writing as if the main character died.

Not to say that that's how I expect this to pan out, but I also don't think it'd be unreasonable.

[Bart Sylfae]

I just want to know when we are going to see Haley's father rescued. Its been so long now, I am beginning to doubt whether he is still alive.

You know if team evil keeps wandering around the castle area... they just might bump into the OoTs gang. No need for a catapult entrance if they notice that they are not in the throne room anymore.

[cavalier973]

I was curious about the rules: If a character is zombified, does his soul return to the zombie body, or does it remain in the outer planes?

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

Wow. The OotSverse came so close to getting annihilated by an undead Miko right there.

[Solara]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :smallbiggrin:

Hard to believe things could become so funny so fast after the seriousness of the last comic, but at least there were jokes like Xykon's chronic forgetfulness to help make the transition.

Those last panels though...for the second Miko-related strip in a row I actually found myself tearing up, but for completely opposite reasons. Oh God I haven't laughed this hard in a long, long time. :smallbiggrin:

(Of course this is one of those rare jokes that's not going to be half as funny for people who don't read the forums...)

EDIT: After I read the comic a second time and my uncontrollable giggling finally subsided, it sank in that man, Tsukiko is a spoiled, annoying brat. I already get the feeling this is going to be one of those characters I love to hate, that is if Redcloak doesn't find a creative way to get rid of her first...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

:smalleek: That was a close call!

[dish]

Yet another example of Rich listening the fans, and refusing to give them what they want. (Instead making it much better than they want.)

There are other ways Miko could return to the storyline, but I doubt it'll happen for a long time, if at all.

[lacesmcawesome]

Ah man! Miko was so close to getting back!

(knowing her, she would have smote herself, though)

[exxor]

And if she finds Roys body? That would be funny!

[delguidance]

Haw!

The lich is cool man. No denying it. He's totally a seen it all done it all kind of guy.

[Albignome]

The reasons for at least trying to raise her (and thus enabling those assorted theories) seem as sound as ever still. Whether they will actually try, CAN actually try (dunno how many clerics AC has left at the moment), and whether she will want to return even if they do try are all seperate issues, but not being animated is hardly any kind of proof that she wont be raised...

Yes, I'm sure everyone has a theory or a reason why they think she should be ressurected, or whatever. They don't matter of course, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I would have to say Miko getting cut in half is a pretty clear indicator that she isn't going to be raised, as that would completely negate the shock value of the previous comic.

And the "cool red and black armor" was clearly a playful jab at the 1309539583 Blackguard theorists out there.

[tmacdevitt]

Rich,

you haved create da great yarn here, but I take umbrage at one detail. :redcloak: is seen healing :xykon: in this comic, yet a couple issues ago he told :xykon:, make it count that's the last one.

C'mon!! How many times is :xykon: going to go from damaged to full in one day?
:smallconfused:

[Azzurus]

pure, wholesome, "Laugh Out Loud" goodness!! :smallbiggrin:

[Kesnit]

I admit, I hoped our little Necro would Raise Miko. I even had a mental image of Zombie Fallen-Paladin...

But it wasn't to be... :small frown:

[Zoolooman]

Rich,

you haved create da great yarn here, but I take umbrage at one detail. :redcloak: is seen healing :xykon: in this comic, yet a couple issues ago he told :xykon:, make it count that's the last one.

C'mon!! How many times is :xykon: going to go from damaged to full in one day?
:smallconfused:

It was the last Harm. It wasn't the last negative energy spell he had.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Astoundingly great comic; Rich is doing a really great job of playing with all our Miko theories and then screwing with them.

[Ridureyu]

Obviously, this counts as "friendly contact" with an evil outsider.


Miko'l be a Blackguard before Comic 470, mark my words!

[Calico]

Too bad she's not near Roy's corpse. Would have made an intresting plot twist. Plus his corpse is in perfect condition.

[Dausuul]

Rich,

you haved create da great yarn here, but I take umbrage at one detail. :redcloak: is seen healing :xykon: in this comic, yet a couple issues ago he told :xykon:, make it count that's the last one.

That was his last harm, not his last spell. Redcloak is an evil cleric, he can convert his spells to inflict wounds all day long. However, regular inflict spells don't heal people nearly fast enough to be worthwhile during an actual battle at high levels.


C'mon!! How many times is :xykon: going to go from damaged to full in one day?
:smallconfused:

Ever played D&D in the 15th-20th level range? People's hit points bounce up and down like crazy. Hell, I've been in a fight where a guy started the fight in perfect condition, dished out 200+ damage in one round, imploded, was brought back to life, exploded, was brought back to life again, was fully healed, got the crap beat out of him, was fully healed again, and ended the combat at full hit points.

[CDR Grendelwulf]

Too bad she's not near Roy's corpse. Would have made an intresting plot twist. Plus his corpse is in perfect condition.

Not necessarily. Did you forget about those vultures?

Ciao,
CDR Grendelwulf

[The Wanderer]

Bwahahahahahahaha. :smallbiggrin:

That is all. :smallbiggrin:

[moscatabaco]

Hahahaha, excellent!!! Team Evil(tm) keep rocking beyond words!!! I know :xykon: called her a newbie, but I bet :redcloak: will call her a n00b. I hope she stays - team evil can use a new character.

Miko's NOT becoming evil. Confront the truth. Deal with it.

[Strega]

So Xykon and Redcloak flew away from the throne room, did a 180 and came right back? Why? There is nothing left to get with the gate blown up. I figured they would land at a safe distance and recall their forces. Why waste troops when they could be looking for the next gate?

Also, for a hyuuuge explosion, that blast killed what, one person? The newbie isn't even scratched.

[Gamaliel_the_Bard]

And THAT, Ladies and Gentlemen....

...After all the Hubbub! created in the Forums over OoTS #464...

...is why The Giant, may he draw comics forever, posted Wednesday's comic today. ( And out of respect for the dearly departed too. )

TO get the most "PUNCH" out of today's Punchline.

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

Well Done Good Sir, I doth my cap to you.

[moscatabaco]

How did anyone expect :xykon: to remember the goth girl? He can barely remember Roy, and he destroyed him temporarily.

[Bunyip]

Mr Rich

You remove an antagonist from the story (and the fans) in a moving and haunting way. In the next strip we re-encounter another in a hip and funny way. The by-play between goth girl and Red Cloak is hilarious and reminiscent of corporate games in our world but translated into OOTs terms.

It could be lots of fun to watch these two play off on each other. I think Xykon would love it.

:roach: seeking battlefield snacks

[Belkon]

Obviously, this counts as "friendly contact" with an evil outsider.


Miko'l be a Blackguard before Comic 470, mark my words!

Did i miss something? When has Miko ever made "friendly contact" with anyone, evil outsider or otherwise?

[Grod_The_Giant]

holy crap. I go away for an hour, come back, and there are two new comics and the forums are still up!

you rule, Giant. On a universal scale.

[Zhrec]

Thank you Rich so much!!!
RC - is owsome
Xykon - Is even more owsomnear (if such adgective is existing)
Tsusiko - fascinating
Miko - dead at last!!!!!!

It was one of the fanniest strips!

[Furin_Mirado]

Holy crap, if she finds Roy's corpse that's going to be nuts. No terrifying undead-Miko, but I'm still hoping for some continuation to her character.

[Fighteer]

I was curious about the rules: If a character is zombified, does his soul return to the zombie body, or does it remain in the outer planes?3.5 edition doesn't go out of its way to pontificate on exactly what happens to creatures' souls when they become undead, but it doesn't specifically discard the more detailed explanations in previous editions.

In the case of ordinary mindless undead (zombies and skeletons), the spirit animating the corpse is summoned from the Negative Energy Plane and is most explicitly not the soul of the original creature. In the case of free-willed undead, there are certain variations based on the actual type. For example, ghouls and ghasts are basically the same as zombies, just with a more intelligent animating spirit. On the other hand, ghosts are explicitly said to be the restless souls of those who cannot go to their rightful place in the Outer Planes, but you also usually don't get one with create undead.

In general, if the undead has some memories of its past life and/or access to class levels, it is presumed to be the soul of the original creature, albeit bound and/or corrupted by negative energy. For the more malicious types of free-willed undead (death knights, spectres, banshees, vampires, etc.), you either start off with an evil person, or you assume that the magic so warps their minds/souls that they become evil while bound by the magic that animates them. Then there are creatures that become undead of their own will (most particularly liches) who retain their original alignments. In fact, the 2nd edition Spelljammer supplements had a prebuilt adventure with a template for an arch-lich - basically a powerful good or neutral spellcaster who passes into an undead state more or less by accident.

Regardless of whether the creature's soul is bound to the body, or it's simply animated by a negative energy spirit, an undead creature cannot be raised or resurrected until the effect binding it to its undead state is removed (usually by destroying the undead).

As for the possibility of raising Miko, raise dead would still be fully effective here, as it requires merely the presence of the whole corpse, bisected or otherwise. Resurrection can operate on a mere fragment of a corpse (but not the dust left by disintegrate or destruction), while true resurrection does not require the presence of the being at all and works even in the face of total destruction.

In a way, Tsukiko is being ingenuous, since the only thing animate dead cares about is the base hit dice of the creature type. An animated Miko would simply become a 2 HD zombie like any other human. If she had an hour to spare and a nice expensive gem or two, she could cast create undead or create greater undead, which make no distinction as to the condition of the corpse.

[erewhon]

OMG!!!!


Talk about poor Miko dodging a bullet! :)

Re-animated by the undead loving freaky girl. <shudder>

Never has a hideous mutiliation been such a lucky thing. :D

Whew!

[Ampersand]

Did i miss something? When has Miko ever made "friendly contact" with anyone, evil outsider or otherwise?

Ridureyu was taking a jab at all the outlandish theories that have popped up since it was revealed that Miko was a pally waaaaaayyyyyy back in 201 that she would become a Blackguard, for reasons including but not limited to:

-Assaulting the OotS
-Arguing that they should sleep on jagged rocks
-Flipping out over the mattress tag
-Breathing (obviously the premeditated genocide of millions of spores and bacteria)
-Walking (ditto)
-Existing
-Having a name that begins with the letter M
-Having the letter I in her name
-Having the letter K in her name
-Having a name that ends with the letter O
-Not getting enough Treasure Type O
-Frabincanating the glavon of the doohicky, nice lady. Moyveen.

[Rambi]

The last 4 panels were pure, unfiltered win! "Black and red armor" oh Rich...

[Clamps]

I like how Redcloak seems to be accepting Tsukiko now. He doesn't like her, but they seem to have downgraded to a Vaarsuvius/Belkar type relationship. Cool. I like her, and think she can add to the Team Evil Dynamic, especially now that the Linear Guild is apparently not recruiting.

Watch her get killed next comic, now. :smallsigh:

Speaking of team cohesion, Xykon got Redcloak healed before he asked to get healed himself. Hm.

Yay for Miko-theory jokes!

[Charles Phipps]

Tsukiko is a human who isn't undead. Wonder how long she'll last in Team Evil. That said, I like the way she planned to off Redcloak with a reanimated Miko wearing cool red and black armor and take over his job. Nice one Giant.

Obviously, longer than the Hobgoblins have. Red Cloak has really lead his people to oblivion hasn't he?

[Aimbot]

Looks like a certain unpopular paladin just dodged a bullet.

[Snipers_Promise]

Well, we needed a funny comic after a long line of depressing ones. Good Job Rich.

[Maerok]

Taunted once more... Great comic, always is.

[David Argall]

After I read the comic a second time and my uncontrollable giggling finally subsided, it sank in that man, Tsukiko is a spoiled, annoying brat. I already get the feeling this is going to be one of those characters I love to hate, that is if Redcloak doesn't find a creative way to get rid of her first...
Being a spoiled annoying brat is one of the [story] virtues of Tsukiko, but
there had better be some kill Tsukiko theads or I am going to be making some snide remarks about some Miko haters.

[Timespike]

NOT GOOD! I hope the OotS gets to Roy's body before Tsukiko does!!

[morbiczer]

I'm really starting to like Tsukiko. :)

[TheoCryst]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the dynamic between Redcloack and Tsukiko. Considering Redcloak's hatred for all humans, and Tsukiko's whininess... I'm expecting a major "sibling rivalry"-type relationship to develop, with Xykon as the uninterested parental figure.

And have we all forgotten about poor MitD? I wonder where he is?

[eilandesq]

"We're villains. We play rough."

Heh. Though it must be pointed out, had Redcloak not snubbed Tsukiko, they might have pulled off a close win aganist Soon: a few more negative energy spells and Xykon would have been to full health.


Actually, I think that--given that Miko was going to reach the throne room regardless of Tsukiko's presence--Tsukiko's presence might have resulted in Team Xykon suffering a TPK. If the fight between Soon and Xykon's crew had been more even, Soon probably either would have been too distracted to shout a warning or decided that Miko's plan was a good safety move at that point, and Xykon & Company wouldn't have had time to flee the blast zone. Probable result: Xykon blown to atoms, Redcloak and Tsukiko killed instantly, and Xykon's phylactery getting a rather devastating attack directed against it. Game over. It might have made for a sad twist on Soon's conversation with Miko, as he reassures her that she did do the right thing. . .but that it isn't enough to redeem her.

[StupidFatHobbit]

Lovely. This one was all kinds of awesome after the heavy-duty drama in the last few strips.

The irony of animating a person named Miyazaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki) would have been lovely too, though.

[Chronos]

That was absolutely classic. Rich, did you get that from the forum, or did you independently come up with (and discard) the idea yourself?

I was expecting the blackguard possibility to get at least a little more play, even if Miko ultimately rejected it. I mean, to go to all the trouble of making a fallen paladin character for whom Hide was a class skill, and then to do only a single comic on the blackguard possibility? But I suppose, more blackguardiness was what we were all expecting.


In a way, Tsukiko is being ingenuous, since the only thing animate dead cares about is the base hit dice of the creature type. An animated Miko would simply become a 2 HD zombie like any other human. If she had an hour to spare and a nice expensive gem or two, she could cast create undead or create greater undead, which make no distinction as to the condition of the corpse.Time and material components aside, there's also the question of whether she can. We've seen nothing to indicate that Tsukiko is higher than cleric 3 / wizard 3 / MT 4, which would make her the equivalent of a 7th level cleric or wizard, but Create Undead takes an 11th level caster, and for the Greater version she'd need to be 15th.

[Random NPC]

Screw that, I want DragoonMiko. Her life for Aiur!

That made me LOL :smallbiggrin:

The Giant is a BIG TEASE. He's a good writer and such a tease

[Elliot Kane]

Heh. If she only knew :D

Great strip :)

[Garland]

There's something wrong with Redcloak's feet in panel five. Yup, i only registered because of this.

[Mustiado]

Oh. My. God. Hysterical.

If only for toying with all the people who REALLY REALLY wanted it to happen.

[johnnyriot999]

Aww I wanted to see Franken-Miko...:smallfrown:

[Foxpaw]

Ahahahahaha!!!! That made me laugh out loud! For reals!

[Lord Zentei]

Actually, I think that--given that Miko was going to reach the throne room regardless of Tsukiko's presence--Tsukiko's presence might have resulted in Team Xykon suffering a TPK. If the fight between Soon and Xykon's crew had been more even, Soon probably either would have been too distracted to shout a warning or decided that Miko's plan was a good safety move at that point, and Xykon & Company wouldn't have had time to flee the blast zone. Probable result: Xykon blown to atoms, Redcloak and Tsukiko killed instantly, and Xykon's phylactery getting a rather devastating attack directed against it. Game over. It might have made for a sad twist on Soon's conversation with Miko, as he reassures her that she did do the right thing. . .but that it isn't enough to redeem her.

Perhaps... though I'd think it a distinct possibility that a fully healed Xykon with support from either Redcloak or Tsukiko (with the other one dealing with the spooks) might well have pulled off a win against Soon before Miko showed up... if so, Team Evil would have been waiting when she did arrive.

[Zaragon]

Regardless of whether the creature's soul is bound to the body, or it's simply animated by a negative energy spirit, an undead creature cannot be raised or resurrected until the effect binding it to its undead state is removed (usually by destroying the undead).

I don't think that's quite right. I always thought Undead creatures are destroyed by being reduced to 0 hp and cannot be raised or resurrected as undead creatures. In particular, I've always played it as raise dead having no effect on the (current) undead, while resurrection and true resurrection turn the undead into the living creature it was before it died. A quick check of the SRD (Undead Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)) seems to confirm this:



An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
...
# Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed.
# Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

[Friv]

Tsukiko/Redcloak is officially one of my favorite antagonistic pairings.

I love the dynamic, although I am mildly saddened that my original theory (Tsukiko getting intelligent-undeaded) didn't happen.

On the other hand, she's probably funnier as-is.

[Lord Zentei]

Obviously, longer than the Hobgoblins have. Red Cloak has really lead his people to oblivion hasn't he?

How do you figure? The Hobbos hold the city. Though the castle is destroyed, that does not mean that they have been. :smallconfused:

[Cybaster]

Bwahahahahaha, that was sweet. :P

Too bad Tsukiko wasn't an Artificer --- Warforged/Construct Miko would've been a nice possibility that'll throw both Good and Evil sides off the map (although her new body'll likely look like some kind of Gundam ripoff), but alas, Miko not being made into a Death Knight is just as nice. She should just be left to stay dead, pass on, and leave the initial impression in our hearts. :)

Now the question remains, though: Since Miko isn't the one who'll become Blackguard, who will?

[Aerysil]

Wait no, her DNA will mix with the sewer water and the life breeding there, making a hybrid humanoid ninja.... turtle?

[malakim2099]

A bit of levity is always good...

But please, no undead Roy? Though if he became a revenant because Tsukiko wasn't paying attention... THAT would be funny. :smallamused:

(A revenant, at least in first/second ed, was a neutral undead that had all the skills the person possessed in life, and the single driving goal of vengeance against those that wronged them.)

[Sphyre]

Rich you tease! You were THIS close to giving the rabid fans what they wanted, and I'm sure you knew it as well. Good job!

Rabid fans? Have a low opinion of people who want to see miko become evil?



Anyway, I always saw it as a possibility, but I really didn't want it to happen until this strip. It was set up so perfectly that if it were to happen, that's one of the best ways to have done it :)

[heroe_de_leyenda]

NOT GOOD! I hope the OotS gets to Roy's body before Tsukiko does!!

Now that's and interesting posibility!... but now that you've mentioned it.... it won't happen!

new rules: If you have a good idea of, if you think you've figured out where is it going... Don't post it!! if you do... it Won't happen! Has any prediction made in the forums ever come true?

[Skyserpent]

Being a spoiled annoying brat is one of the [story] virtues of Tsukiko, but
there had better be some kill Tsukiko theads or I am going to be making some snide remarks about some Miko haters.

I wouldn't mind if Tsukiko bit the dust...

I don't like Mystic Theurges...

[Lord Zentei]

I wouldn't mind if Tsukiko bit the dust...

I don't like Mystic Theurges...

Woo hoo! We get a new controversial character debate as soon as the previous controversial character gets killed.

<considers starting a Tsukiko fanclub>

Though sadly, this one won't spawn an Alignment debate. Oh, well.

[Green Bean]

Hey, what theory the Giant giveth, the Giant taketh away.

Also, Xykon and Redcloak really are big league baddies, eh?

[thubby]

i didnt like this comic, miko died a touching death, you should have iether made her an undead and made it an arc, or left it be. you dont mess with that kinda stuff!:smallmad:

not to mention there are a whole lot of other things going on that i am anxious to see resolved.

[Scarab83]

Very few of the strips have made me literally laugh out loud. This was one of them.

Nice little jab at all the Miko theorists out there. :smallbiggrin:

[Draz74]

And have we all forgotten about poor MitD? I wonder where he is?

Having tea with O-chul and the demon roaches, of course. :roach:

[5tephen]

HA!

Nobody likes Miko, more like.

[Cicobalico]

Pheeeew! That was so close! :smalleek:
I can barely imagine how terrible would be an undead Miko wearing black and red armor...
(I think would be worse than Michael Jackson in Thriller though)

[TRat]

Now that's and interesting posibility!... but now that you've mentioned it.... it won't happen!

new rules: If you have a good idea of, if you think you've figured out where is it going... Don't post it!! if you do... it Won't happen! Has any prediction made in the forums ever come true?

Well, I already posted it in another thread, so I'll take the additional risk, but it looks like the Giant has proposed a plausible way that Roy will return--granted that probably means that Roy will return in some ridiculous and implausible way instead. Just to screw with us.

[StClair]

Though sadly, this one won't spawn an Alignment debate. Oh, well.
Is "Brat" an alignment, a class, or a feat?

[H. Zee]

Haha, I love the way Tsukiko complains to Xykon like a schoolkid to the teacher. ("Sir! Redcloak's being mean!") I think that's reflected in the strip title as well. I actually found that funnier then the Miko undead thing, though both were good.

[Exalted_Hater]

but her legs were just a few feet away!!!! /WHAAAA!!!

the giant's up to something. you know he is....

[Lord Zentei]

Is "Brat" an alignment, a class, or a feat?

A template most likely. With "provoke annoyance" as a special ability.

[SpartacusThe2nd]

I hate you Rich!
it was so close!!
damn it, it could be sooo C00l!! :smallbiggrin:

but you had to ruin it... :smallmad:

[factotum]

I wonder if this was done primarily to answer the people who thought Miko being cut in half was somehow sick or twisted? Since there's now a plot reason for that happening (so Tsukiko won't raise her as an undead)...

I notice somebody asked why Team Evil hadn't gone very far. Well, I'm assuming Xykon just found the nearest bunch of hobgoblin clerics he could find...looks like Redcloak was in the negatives and fading fast, and Xykon sure as heck wasn't going to be able to stabilise him. Also, we don't know how far Miko was thrown after the explosion--they could be quite some distance from the castle.

[Mammerop]

That's right, you just keep on moving doll. And don't you dare reconsider! This strip could stand to lose a re-occuring vilian or two.

Thank you Lord Rich

[Alynn]

Note though, she hasn't seen the bottom half of Miko yet. It's just a few feet away, but she never passes it....



Therefore (and not beyond Rich to pull something like this) she isn't reborn this strip, but her legs could be found next strip, but something happens to keep her from being ressed that strip... and on and on :)

[Bret_Hawkeye]

Seeing her dead body...I am missing Ms. Miko. *sob* :smallfrown:

[RMS Oceanic]

This comic is just like the poison arrow shindig, with all the speculation shot down in a blurry display of misdirection. Nice!

Did anyone notice that Redcloak was genuinely disappointed at their failure? Is it possible that:
He doesn't want the gates to be destroyed to end the world?

[Aotrs Commander]

Bwahahahahaha!

Rich, dude, you're so evil!

Nice.

[Idless]

He didn't recognize Tsukiko, either. I don't think Xykon is really a people person

say that al'right

hey... more like a undead people person


...Idless

[TreesOfDeath]

Lol Rich's teasing forum goers, I love it.
I felt mildly insulted by the strip mocking the idea of Blackguard Miko, but now I think Rich poking fun at his readers is awesome

[Gygantar]

Miko will become the bionic death knight!

[Haruki-kun]

Miko.............. and undead warrior?
There's something I didn't see coming.......

[Drascin]

Did anyone notice that Redcloak was genuinely disappointed at their failure? Is it possible that:
He doesn't want the gates to be destroyed to end the world?

I think a Roy quote is in order here...

:roy: You are accepting as credible a theory that came from Miko's mouth.

Seriously, I doubt Redcloak wants the world to go "poof". More like controlling it and putting his race at the top of the scheme of everything, most likely.

[Ogenki]

Wow, looks like Roy might return as an undead that's "free willed and evil and mean, with cool black and red armor."

[Grasilich]

It's good that Xykon (and Redcloak too) has someone to kick around again. With Xykon and Redcloak now reaching BEFF (Best Evil Friends Forever) status, Team Evil was lacking in people to heap abuses upon.

Tsuiko is a ditz. She obviously used Sorc levels rather than Wizard to qualify for MT.

[Freelance Henchman]

Assuming that Redcloak was near zero HP when they started healing him:

- 2 x Cure Moderate Wounds = 2 x (2d8 + 1/level (max 10))
- 1 x Cure Serious Wounds = 3d8 + 1/level (max 15)
- 1 x Cure Critical Wounds = 4d8 + 1/level (max 20)

So Redcloak has a maximum of 2x(16+10)+(24+15)+(32+20) = 143 HP?

At 1d8 hit dice per level (not counting Toughness etc.), that equals 17,875, so he seems to be about level 17. Seem likely?

[factotum]

I think the general consensus is that Redcloak is around level 15-16--17 or 18 would seem a little high, although it's always possible he levelled up! Also, it's possible he OVERhealed or has a particularly high Constitution.

[Proxy]

Sooooo Close... :smallfrown:

But maybe is there a chance that Roy will be animated in the form of a Death Knight.

That would be asome...:smallcool:

[Jamie Fameflame]

Bwahaha!!! Nice one, loved how the hopes of the Miko fans was raised for a few seconds, only to be chrushed swiftly thereafter :smallbiggrin:

She's dead and will apparently stay that way, nice...

BTW, this was probably the funniest comic in a looooong while!

:xykon: "That's even funnier!"

[Freelance Henchman]

Bwahaha!!! Nice one, loved how the hopes of the Miko fans was raised for a few seconds, only to be chrushed swiftly thereafter :smallbiggrin:

Why would the *fans* want her raised as an evil undead? I certainly don't.

[Miklus]

:smalleek: STOP...TAUNTING...ME...:smallfrown:

That's it, I'm gonna have to draw "Evil Miko" in black and red armour, headbangin' on Belkars corpse. Stay Tuned.

[Eldpollard]

Oh Giant. You're such a tease. Seriously good comic.

[Gygaxphobia]

Ah, you just wanted us to THINK Miko was going to be a Death Knight for a second.

You know you read the forums. Sometimes, you do it just so you can torque people's expectations.

Good comic.

If this was TV, Miko the Death Knight would have been an awesome spin-off series.



He didn't recognize Tsukiko, either. I don't think Xykon is really a people person.

Yeh, for a Sorceror he has terrible Charisma.

[shylocxs]

Go Team Evil! I knew we'd start to get our act together again!

Does this mean that the siege is still on? That there is still going to be an attempt to take over the city?

[Megalomaniac2]

Miko will become the bionic death knight!

She's not dead. We can rebuild her. We have the technology. (And magic) We can make her stronger... faster... crazier... bitchier. She will become... THE BIONIC EX-PALADIN.

[Tola]

Originally Posted by Tulisin
No, wait, they can rebuild her, better, stronger, faster, like robopaladin!

...????

"Thank you for your co-operation."*Sword Spin, Sheath Sword"

"Somewhere, Evil is being commited."

...That fits....far more than you might think.

Especially if you put the ammnesia angle into it. Of course, in this case she probably wouldn't WANT to remember. Which is an RPG Cliche(Well, Console RPG): "All characters with ammneisa will eventually be cured. They usually won't like what they find out, though."

[Grasilich]

Does this mean that the siege is still on? That there is still going to be an attempt to take over the city?

They're probably going to burn the place to the ground and then leave.

[Matuse]

My whole post is a:

Thing is, Miko's whole corpse is present. So what we won't see in the next comic, which will shift away from Tsukiko (who we will not see for a long time) is when she find Miko's legs, stitches the two halves together, and makes a death knight out of her anyway. We'll see that sequence in a later flashback during the dramatic unveiling of DK_Miko

[Pantler]

Aww. Just the kind of a humorous filler we needed at the moment :biggrin:

[Jaws'n'Paws]

Thing is, Miko's whole corpse is present. So what we won't see in the next comic, which will shift away from Tsukiko (who we will not see for a long time) is when she find Miko's legs, stitches the two halves together, and makes a death knight out of her anyway. We'll see that sequence in a later flashback during the dramatic unveiling of DK_Miko
Aww, and I was hoping all the undead/black guard/death kinght Miko speculations are about to end. But, considering the lower half of our beloved ex-paladin...*evil grin*
It's just my twisted mind, but I can easily see Tsukiko commiting some acts of unnatural wizardry... Eww, that fits perfectly in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47639).
...
Damn you, Giant, you should have burned Miko's remains to ashes. Would stop the endless discussions AND save my poor mind.

[Matherdon]

Damn you for teasing us Rick!!! XD

[ThorFluff]

we bow to your superiority. Nice touch, and i really love that we see that Xykon would never berate Red Cloak for being evil, no matter to who :P

[motub]

Glad Tsukiko lived through her hazing;

Glad Tsukiko is still on Team Evil;

Very, very sorry that The Giant had to blow the last 2.5 panels on an unfortunately weak joke, just to make it absolutely clear to a percentage of the readership that there will be no resurrected Miko, much less Miko resurrected as a Death Knight, or any of that bullcrap (especially since he made it quite clear enough in the previous strip that she's dead, dead, dead).

First thing I thought on reading this was "What a waste (of a perfectly good strip)!", but hey, it happens. :shrug:

Tsukiko's really very Lawful Evil, though, isn't she... she wants the CEO to "discipline" the VP for "wrongdoing"? On her first day? That's a lot of faith in the "rules", especially when you don't even know what the rules (of Team Evil) even are....!

[Fenix]

I could almost hear: *plot* :smallbiggrin:

[TheJustWiseSage]

Loved the comic Rich!

My guess as to who Tsukiko should raise as a greater undead
Grand Larceny Guy, he's a high level dead NPC, and his corpse will be just over wall, with his head near by. as she knew him somewhat in life, she'll know he's high level

[jaded_empath]

:smallamused:

Oh, wonderful, Mr. Burlew!

Let's see:

- you reintroduce humour and wisecracks to a comic that had been getting rather sombre (and yet still excellent)

- you induct a potential member properly into Team Evil

- you remind people that in T.E. 'we play rough'

- you take a rather annoying and pervasive fan theory and pop it like silly little soap bubble it is :smallbiggrin:

Many thanks for making me grin today, kind sir!


(Oh, and is it too late for me to comment on how the throne apparently had the Sunder feat? Interesting, eh? :smalltongue: )


EDIT: and people?

a) Xykon doesn't have memory problems; being a virtually immortal lich, he just doesn't care to commit any details of most mere mortals to memory! :smallbiggrin:

b) to all the whinging about a blatant stab at your Sacred Cows; it's Rich's frelling webcomic; if you start making conjecture about how someone ELSE is going to write THEIR webcomic, on THEIR forums (taking up THEIR site resources in insane amounts of chaff), expect to be hoisted on your own petards. :smalltongue:

I just take it as entertainment and don't get fixated and fanatic about any details...

[Delgarde]

Actually, Miko's method of death, though brutal, lends her a lot more to use by the good guys than by the villains. Resurrection works better than animation on some styles of injury (is it only true rez that works on just a part, though?)

True Resurrection doesn't even need any trace of the body, actually - just some way of identifying the person you want to call back. It's Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm) that works with just the smallest fragment of the body, while Raise Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm) requires the body to be basically intact - while it provides full healing of hit points, any missing limbs remain missing.

Not that it matters, I suspect. They're not going to resurrect her after everything that's happened. If they learn anything of what happened in the throne room, they might end up portraying her as a hero in the official version of events - the story of a fallen paladin redeeming herself would be a powerful story to motivate the people of the city, even if it's not entirely true. But I can't see them resurrecting her.

[Roderick_BR]

No, wait, they can rebuild her, better, stronger, faster, like robopaladin!
Half woman
Half machine
All paladin

Sorry, I had to:smallbiggrin:
Hmm... half golem paladin... now that's an interesting concept...

[Kesnit]

Now the question remains, though: Since Miko isn't the one who'll become Blackguard, who will?

Easy... :belkar:

He's already evil. Hide is a class skill for Rangers. He obviously has Cleave (as evidenced by the pile of bodies that led to his "shoeless sexy god of war"). Didn't he have a conversation with :sabine: in jail?

Plus, he can keep killing things.

:xykon: wouldn't be the only one having evil-gasms...

[Etiainen]

Aaaaaaah! That was SO close to reviving her! :smallyuk:

I wonder if Roy "gets in her way" too :smallwink:

[Delgarde]

Also, we don't know how far Miko was thrown after the explosion--they could be quite some distance from the castle.

Not all that far, since the background shows they're still somewhere in the city. They're somewhere near the outside walls, I think.

[Fighteer]

I don't think that's quite right. I always thought Undead creatures are destroyed by being reduced to 0 hp and cannot be raised or resurrected as undead creatures. In particular, I've always played it as raise dead having no effect on the (current) undead, while resurrection and true resurrection turn the undead into the living creature it was before it died. A quick check of the SRD (Undead Type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)) seems to confirm this:
That entry has been cited frequently in support of the "undead can be resurrected into living beings" argument, but it is specifically opposed by the descriptive text of the spells themselves, which state that they do not work on undead.

[TreesOfDeath]

This comic is just like the poison arrow shindig, with all the speculation shot down in a blurry display of misdirection. Nice!

Did anyone notice that Redcloak was genuinely disappointed at their failure? Is it possible that:
He doesn't want the gates to be destroyed to end the world?

If Redcloak wanted Xykon to fail, and the gate to stay, he could have just watched the Ghost Martyr's Pwn Xykon then smash his Pyslacthy.
Recloak either:
1) Is loyal to Xykon and his cause
2) Wants harness the power of the gates for himself
3) Is puttong a show to avoid making Xykon suspcious

Reading agian its also possible Redcloak's goal and Xykon's goal overlap. Maybe Xykon destroying everything would help the Goblin God

[Lerch]

I appreciate what Rich has done. It's always fun to watch a paladin fall, especially those "holyier than thou" paladins. Miko still didn't have a clue that she was so lawful to be awful lawful...even in death. I'm kinda glad she didn't come back...

just an opinion...

[lovelyluthien]

Easy... :belkar:

He's already evil. Hide is a class skill for Rangers. He obviously has Cleave (as evidenced by the pile of bodies that led to his "shoeless sexy god of war"). Didn't he have a conversation with :sabine: in jail?

Plus, he can keep killing things.

:xykon: wouldn't be the only one having evil-gasms...

Belkar might become blackguard, rules-wise, yes. But from a plot-point of view that would be really boring.
Why would the plot need a blackguard, anyway?

[Truthseeker]

Half woman
Half machine
All paladin

Sorry, I had to:smallbiggrin:
Hmm... half golem paladin... now that's an interesting concept...

Hrm. Two of my favorite characters.

Let us stop for a moment and analyze what makes Robocop what he is.

1) An initial lack of personality.

2) Near-invulnerable, at least where it comes to petty crooks.

3) A rigid code, a set of directives which he is bound by --but the intent of which he can stray pretty far from. For example, "directive 3: uphold the law" does not seem to deter excessive force one iota, and apparently "serving the public trust" does not in any way involve minimizing collateral property damage.

.....Hrrrrm. I conclude that Miko's character would not be muchly altered by the transition. :smallsmile:

[carais]

I felt a great disturbance in the forums, as if millions of Undead/Blackguard Miko threads cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...

[warmachine]

With the capture of Azure City, the hobgoblins aren't going to replace their Supreme Leader anytime soon. However, Redcloak and Xykon will want another gate but I can't see the hobgoblins simply walking away from their hard fought prize. So, what will the hobgoblins do?

[nocker]

There's something wrong with Redcloak's feet in panel five. Yup, i only registered because of this.

What amazes me in this error is that it seems that Rich doesnt keep the characters' drawings Grouped. That looks like if he grabbed Redcloak to position him, but forgot to grab the two lower fingers.

[Fighteer]

With the capture of Azure City, the hobgoblins aren't going to replace their Supreme Leader anytime soon. However, Redcloak and Xykon will want another gate but I can't see the hobgoblins simply walking away from their hard fought prize. So, what will the hobgoblins do?
They're out to kill and loot, both of which they can accomplish in relative freedom now that the defenders of AC are mostly defeated.

Fact: the various daimyos and lords of of the city are still floating around out there with a significant portion of their armed retainers and could pose a real threat to the hobgoblins' long-term occupation of the city.

Fact: The hobgoblins have no real motivation to keep the city once they've plundered it, unless their military leadership (i.e., Redcloak) tells them to do so.

Fact: Xykon and Redcloak are going to need a bit of time to recover and reorganize before heading off to either of the two remaining gates. One is across the ocean and the other requires marching through several additional nations that would have to be conquered along the way. (Here, ironically, Roy's answer from the Oracle actually becomes semi-useful.)

Question: Do we know, geographically speaking, which of the above two gates is Girard's?

Possibility 1:
Deciding to sail to their next objective, Team Evil sticks around to complete its capture and occupation of AC, particularly including the docks and shipyards. (I envision some kind of trickery to get the daimyos to return so their ships can be captured, otherwise they'd have to spend a few months building new ones.) This possibly gives the OotS time to attempt to sabotage their plans, but seems less dramatic then...
Possibility 2:
Team Evil remains in AC just long enough to clean things up, then Redcloak commands the remaining hobgoblin army to abandon AC and head north to the next gate, leaving a mile-wide swath of razed towns and cities in its wake. Meanwhile, Kubota and the other daimyos return to AC and, in the absence of the Sapphire Guard, attempt to turn it into a Lawful Neutral/Lawful Evil oligarchy. Hinjo either dies or remains behind to try to salvage the government, while the OotS follow Xykon. This also opens up the possibility of the daimyos raising Miko and convincing her to join up on their side.

[Kesnit]

Belkar might become blackguard, rules-wise, yes. But from a plot-point of view that would be really boring.
Why would the plot need a blackguard, anyway?

There isn't a reason. I was only answering the person who asked who will become a BG, since we now know it won't be :miko:

[InfernusTribble]

Notice that Tsukiko is only mad at Redcloak, not Xykon

Guess she still wants to bounce his bones...

And please no, no undead Miko being raised by the loopy goth (to the power 10) chick. Even the Belkar fan fic thread on who his romantic interest should be never got that bad

Being a Miko sort-of-fan I would like her to stay dead dead and not be undead dead, at least not raised by Team Evil - having a "rejected-by-Xykon" Tsukiko with a "Pet-Death-Knight" Miko tagging along is a recipe for having to take sanity checks every time I read a forum post

Maybe Team Evil need her to improve their dynamic and group interplay a little and at least Tsukiko has survived her "Accidental Assassination Attempt Welcome Wagon" initiation ceremony as presided over by Redcloak.

[Xanos]

That was pure, fine, epic win. I laughed out loud, which is the first time I've ever done that with any comic, be it OOTS, CAD, LFG, DLC or whatever! Oh my God Giant, you deserve epic rewards for that one. Still smiling to myself :).

[Amon Star]

Mr Giant, well do you torment your readers.:smalltongue:

Seriously though. That was pretty funny. Little miss Mystic Thuerge is finding out why it's stupid to be evil. Not only was she laughed at, but :xykon: didn't even remember her.

However, the punchline was definitely the best bit, so many people are eager for an Evil Undead :miko:. I could hear them drooling with anticipation. And then POW, sucker punched. Well played, Giant, well played.

[malakim2099]

Yeh, for a Sorceror he has terrible Charisma.

Intelligence, actually. Charisma is force of personality more than memory. Though I'd say his Wisdom is no great shakes either. :smalltongue:

[Dunedain]

EXCELLENT work. These last few comics have been stellar. I used to catch up with OOTS every few weeks (or maybe once a week), but this arc has me fiendishly checking every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

Great job with Miko in these last two. Her death was handled masterfully.

Plus, it's already great fun seeing Emo Girl get smacked down by her Team Evil superiors. She has the potential to be extremely annoying, but knowing Rich, she'll be dealt with in an appropriate fashion.

No death knight for joo!

[Zafuel]

No, wait, they can rebuild her, better, stronger, faster, like robopaladin!

We can do it. We have the technology to create...

[Krellen]

Burlew, you tease.

BRILLIANT!

[tamashii]

Man that was awesome. Great comic dialogue! I loved the exchange between RC and Xykon.

I almost was ready for the noobie to raise Miko and have Miko be all, “Nice. Where’s my legs, you goth Hello Kitty wanna-be?” She would hop around biting knees. Hilarity ensues.

[Deckmaster]

Good fake-out.

Also, with an attitude like that, I think I'm not too worried about Team Evil ever actually winning.

[warmachine]

They're out to kill and loot, both of which they can accomplish in relative freedom now that the defenders of AC are mostly defeated.

Fact: the various daimyos and lords of of the city are still floating around out there with a significant portion of their armed retainers and could pose a real threat to the hobgoblins' long-term occupation of the city.

Fact: The hobgoblins have no real motivation to keep the city once they've plundered it, unless their military leadership (i.e., Redcloak) tells them to do so.

Fact: Xykon and Redcloak are going to need a bit of time to recover and reorganize before heading off to either of the two remaining gates. One is across the ocean and the other requires marching through several additional nations that would have to be conquered along the way. (Here, ironically, Roy's answer from the Oracle actually becomes semi-useful.)
It is presumptious to label extrapolations, rather than definitive and reliable statements, as facts. Point 3 is obvious but not particularly relevent to the motives of the hobgoblins.

First, in a feudal society, the ruler tends to have the largest army of any noble. One needs the strength so one or two ambitious lords know a coup isn't feasible. There are a number of nobles and they do want their city back but their combined might is likely around 20,000 troops. Hard against just under 30,000 hobgoblins in a fortified city. The maths is against the Azurian lords unless they've got a really good plan.

Second, hobgoblins, unlike orcs, are organised as well as militaristic. Whilst looting is good, a fortified, trading city is a fine, military asset. Some ambitious warlord is going to be tempted to start a new colony with bullying some humans as a bonus.

Attributing human culture and motives to hobgoblins is a dangerous assumption, of course. Anybody claim to understand hobgoblin culture with any certainty?

[Fighteer]

It is presumptious to label extrapolations, rather than definitive and reliable statements, as facts. Point 3 is obvious but not particularly relevent to the motives of the hobgoblins.
Redcloak is still the Supreme Leader, and as such, what he says goes. If he says, "Build ships and sail across the ocean," they either go with him or "find" a new leader.


First, in a feudal society, the ruler tends to have the largest army of any noble. One needs the strength so one or two ambitious lords know a coup isn't feasible. There are a number of nobles and they do want their city back but their combined might is likely around 20,000 troops. Hard against just under 30,000 hobgoblins in a fortified city. The maths is against the Azurian lords unless they've got a really good plan.
I didn't say that the AC lords could recapture the city, but they could make a long-term occupation really painful.


Second, hobgoblins, unlike orcs, are organised as well as militaristic. Whilst looting is good, a fortified, trading city is a fine, military asset. Some ambitious warlord is going to be tempted to start a new colony with bullying some humans as a bonus.
They have a perfectly good city back home where they came from. Unless they can unequivocally capture Azure City and pacify the territory around it, they won't be secure enough there to establish it as a permanent base.

A lot depends on what Xykon and Redcloak plan to do now. If they want to do the "march and conquer" bit, then they would probably plan to bring the whole army with them; neither of them cares in the least about keeping Azure City. Maybe Redcloak would think to leave a few thousand behind to maintain control, but Xykon certainly wouldn't.

Remember that, if they plan to use AC as a base of operations while they prepare their next move, they have a whole lot of pissed off lords to deal with, not to mention the OotS and whatever's left of the Sapphire Guard (even if it is only Hinjo). Then again, I could easily see Kubota making some kind of accomodation with Xykon/Redcloak - he's that sleazy.

[shakes019]

Good comic. Xykon gets the best lines, from the "who's that" to "listen newbie, we're the bad guys". He's just so entertaining.

And considering Redcloak's method of bribing Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html) in the past, I didn't think that Tsukiko had much chance of getting Redcloak in trouble.

[factotum]

Question: Do we know, geographically speaking, which of the above two gates is Girard's?


Yes--it's the one across the ocean. Roy says as much when he asks his question of the Oracle:

There are two magical gates that Xykon might try to control next: Girard's Gate, on the western continent, and Kraagor's Gate, near the northern polar ice cap.

[Fighteer]

Yes--it's the one across the ocean. Roy says as much when he asks his question of the Oracle:

There are two magical gates that Xykon might try to control next: Girard's Gate, on the western continent, and Kraagor's Gate, near the northern polar ice cap.
Ah yes. So, my first guess is more likely to be the case: Team Evil sticks around in AC and uses it as a base to send their force overseas to Girard's Gate.

[DragonTounge]

Wow out of all the Miko being revived theories I've heard since the last comic for some reason nobody thought she'd be revived as an undead. Still its a good thing she didn't or they might have had to fight another huevaca.

[Grey Watcher]

I love Screw-The-Audience Humor. :-) That was so much fun.

Also, way to get more mileage out of hiding her... injury in a second strip! Bravo!

Also the phrase "beige bitch" has a strange appeal for me. Alliterative and all that.

[warmachine]

Redcloak is still the Supreme Leader, and as such, what he says goes. If he says, "Build ships and sail across the ocean," they either go with him or "find" a new leader.

That's a good point. It's the civilised races that use political compromise, the leaders of savage species beat the hell out of disagreeing voices. I have to agree with your scenario.

[Baalzebub]

Man, when I saw the last panels, I could practically smell all the thread regarding "Miko resurrection", "Miko as undead" and so forth. And threads are not supposed to smell... :smallmad:

Other than that, Great Comic Giant!! :smallwink:

[Ladorak]

*Blink blink*

Man I feel sorry for people who read the comic but not the forums... That was awesome

[Black of Night]

I must say, that was one of my favorite ones so far.

[Doug Lampert]

Ridureyu was taking a jab at all the outlandish theories that have popped up since it was revealed that Miko was a pally waaaaaayyyyyy back in 201 that she would become a Blackguard, for reasons including but not limited to:

-Assaulting the OotS
-Arguing that they should sleep on jagged rocks
-Flipping out over the mattress tag
-Breathing (obviously the premeditated genocide of millions of spores and bacteria)
-Walking (ditto)
-Existing
-Having a name that begins with the letter M
-Having the letter I in her name
-Having the letter K in her name
-Having a name that ends with the letter O
-Not getting enough Treasure Type O
-Frabincanating the glavon of the doohicky, nice lady. Moyveen.
You forgot killing sweet innocent little bandit girls who were only trying to dominate her and then killing her totally harmless father when he drew two swords to attack and kill Miko.

Shame on that brutal Miko. Engaging in fully justified self-defense that way and killing murderous bandits. She plainly should have fallen right then.:smallsmile:

Note that the above isn't really exagerated. There seem to be people on the board who genuinly have no trouble with the OotS killing sleeping goblins who haven't done anything to them, but think it is horrible that Miko killed known bandits who were in the act of attacking her.

[Kethel]

I must now repair monitor+pepsi damage. That was priceless.

[fractal]

Assuming that Redcloak was near zero HP when they started healing him:

- 2 x Cure Moderate Wounds = 2 x (2d8 + 1/level (max 10))
- 1 x Cure Serious Wounds = 3d8 + 1/level (max 15)
- 1 x Cure Critical Wounds = 4d8 + 1/level (max 20)

So Redcloak has a maximum of 2x(16+10)+(24+15)+(32+20) = 143 HP?
But those are only the maximum values. Unless we believe that the weaker cleric is level 10, the stronger one is level 15, and Redcloak is level 20, AND they all roll maximized dice, it won't be that many hp.

I would expect an average healing value to be more like 2x(9+4)+(14+6)+(18+15) = 79.

At 1d8 hit dice per level (not counting Toughness etc.), that equals 17,875, so he seems to be about level 17. Seem likely?
If he gains 4.5 hp per level (no Con bonus), then 15*4.5 = 68. 79 is greater than 68, but not by much. So, maybe Redcloak's hp were quite negative, maybe he has a small Con bonus, maybe he's actually a level or two higher, or maybe the healing roll was unusually high or low.

Level 15 is about what we expect, anyway, since he lost to Miko, and she (was) around level 16.

[Smoke_Rulz]

Grahahaha! Excellently played, Rich.


You forgot killing sweet innocent little bandit girls who were only trying to dominate her and then killing her totally harmless father when he drew two swords to attack and kill Miko.

Shame on that brutal Miko. Engaging in fully justified self-defense that way and killing murderous bandits. She plainly should have fallen right then.:smallsmile:

Note that the above isn't really exagerated. There seem to be people on the board who genuinly have no trouble with the OotS killing sleeping goblins who haven't done anything to them, but think it is horrible that Miko killed known bandits who were in the act of attacking her.

Marvelously put, my friend. I don't get that Miko logic at all.

[Elkan]

The giant knows what we want (Uber-undead blackguard) and yet taunts us with 'only half a body' logic. :(

[happyturtle]

Woo hoo! We get a new controversial character debate as soon as the previous controversial character gets killed.

<considers starting a Tsukiko fanclub>

Though sadly, this one won't spawn an Alignment debate. Oh, well.

Are you sure? Cause way back in strip 446 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) she says 'I want to be evil!' That means she's clearly NOT evil, or she would said so. And then she followed all of Xykon's instructions, so she must be lawful. So that means she's Lawful Neutral!

/silly alignment debate

(Seriously, her true alignment is clearly Lawful Whiney. Evil is just a hobby, but brattiness is at the core of her personality.)

[DreadArchon]

That entry has been cited frequently in support of the "undead can be resurrected into living beings" argument, but it is specifically opposed by the descriptive text of the spells themselves, which state that they do not work on undead.
No, that's only Raise Dead.


The condition of the remains is not a factor... You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed.

[Ampersand]

Man I feel sorry for people who read the comic but not the forums... That was awesome

Heh...I actually envy them, sometimes. :smallamused:


You forgot killing sweet innocent little bandit girls who were only trying to dominate her and then killing her totally harmless father when he drew two swords to attack and kill Miko.

Doh! Well, I did say that my list was of the "including but not limited to" variety. If one were to catalog every inane reason or action that a forum goer felt that Miko should've Fallen and/or become a blackguard for, it likely would require every byte of data storage ever produced by man to store it.

[Emperor Ing]

How long can this debate go on? miko is NOT gonna be a blackguard! get over it! :smallmad:

[meioziz]

I hope this can put the "can undead be resurrected" question to rest:

Resurrection as stated at D20SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm):

You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.

True Resurrection as stated at D20SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueResurrection.htm):

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Undead-related information bolded for your reference.

[Ampersand]

How long can this debate go on? miko is NOT gonna be a blackguard! get over it! :smallmad:

As I said in another thread...forever. Hyper-evolved cockroaches will still be arguing about Miko's alignment thousands of years after we've disappeared off the face of the planet. Such is her power.

[smellie_hippie]

Nicely done Mr Burlew. Nicely done.

dibs on the legs.

[TiamatRoar]

The evidence mounts that Red Cloak and Xykon are actually good friends (the two laugh together a lot) and at the very least, their goals are aligned (as opposed to the theory that RC plans to betray Xykon or destroyed Lirian's gate on purpose).

Course, Start of Darkness should hopefully settle that once and for all.

Good strip!

BTW, Red Cloak didn't heal Xykon. Another Hob Gob Cleric did. Take a closer look at the strip and you'll see him and also see that Red Cloak's hand isn't glowing when Xykon gets healed.

[Shatteredtower]

Very, very sorry that The Giant had to blow the last 2.5 panels on an unfortunately weak joke...Eh? The verbal irony was the best part!


...just to make it absolutely clear to a percentage of the readership that there will be no resurrected Miko, much less Miko resurrected as a Death Knight, or any of that bullcrap (especially since he made it quite clear enough in the previous strip that she's dead, dead, dead).If the Giant's learned anything by now, it's that people do not stop speculating on any possibility until he's outright stated on the forums, 'This is how it is."

All we know for certain is that Tsukiko isn't animating Miko. That does not preclude having Redcloak do it (and he's got some pretty handy formulas for non-core undead), with two good reasons why he might try it (he's seen her in action and he's seen that there was a change in her before the end) and one why he might not (the availability of more intact paladin corpses, though make whole does render that academic). It doesn't preclude the possibility of her being raised either (again, whole works on corpses), though it does seem pretty unlikely that anyone that might try it (hard as it is to think of a candidate likely to do so) would be able to get to the body, what with all of those hobgoblins about.

The odds against her return look pretty good, but I won't rule it out unless the Giant declares it's absolutely out of the question. I mean, in No Cure for the Paladin Blues, he made it clear that he hasn't even ruled out the possibility of bringing the two bandits Miko killed out in the middle of nowhere, assuming he has a use for them. Therefore, Miko too will be back -- if he has a use for her specifically.

[Runeclaw]

Heh, interesting take on just how wounded Redcloak is.

Though I am a little surprised that Tsukiko doesn't recognize Miko, considering her having been the most powerful paladin in the city, with something of a fearsome reputation.

Most of Azure City does not even know that the Saphire Guard exists.

[Drakron]

...
First, in a feudal society, the ruler tends to have the largest army of any noble. One needs the strength so one or two ambitious lords know a coup isn't feasible. ...

Actually this is false, the survival of kings on feudal society depended on the liege-vassal system ... many kings/emperors lacked of any real power and were only figure heads.

Japan serves as a example of that, Sengoku period was a open civil war but yet there was a imperial court and a imperial family.

[teratorn]

Most of Azure City does not even know that the Saphire Guard exists.

People know there are paladins in the city, but the paladins are somewhat secretive. When she reached the tower where Xykon caged her the guard didn't recognize her either.

[factotum]

If the Giant's learned anything by now, it's that people do not stop speculating on any possibility until he's outright stated on the forums, 'This is how it is."


What makes you think even that stops it? After all, the Giant has gone on record on the forums stating that Belkar is Chaotic Evil, yet you still get a thread arguing the toss on that one every couple of weeks!

[nagora]

"We're villains. We play rough."

Heh. Though it must be pointed out, had Redcloak not snubbed Tsukiko, they might have pulled off a close win aganist Soon: a few more negative energy spells and Xykon would have been to full health.

A wise man said: "Evil always contains within it the seeds of its own destruction".

[Shatteredtower]

What makes you think even that stops it? After all, the Giant has gone on record on the forums stating that Belkar is Chaotic Evil, yet you still get a thread arguing the toss on that one every couple of weeks!I haven't seen any of late, but I concede your point.