Undead: charmable and enchantable?

[oxybe]

So I was looking into potential characters for our team of "less then nice people" in our underdark game when I noticed that oathbreaker 7/necromancer 6 would make a rather nice minionmancer, giving them all +charisma to damage, +proficiency to hit and +necromancer level HP.

I was looking for ways to mass bolster my hordes when I came upon the bless spell. it doesn't affect a large number but that it was also an enchantment spell.

On a whim I started looking around for more information on what can and cannot affect my zombles and skelebobs and unless the spells seems to indicate otherwise, and I may be off my rocker, but undead can totally be affected by enchantments, charms, etc...

Command, for example, calls out specifically "The spell has no effect if your target is undead" but bless seems to work fine, as does spells like Fear.

Am I right in this or did I just miss a memo?

[Nonah_Me]

I've run a lot of undead in my games recently, and there isn't anything in their stat blocks that indicate they are mindless or unable to be charmed, enchanted, etc.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Most undead are now vulnerable to that kind of thing, though not all enchatments will work on all types of undead. For example, Vampires are immune to charm. However, instead of a special 'mindless' category, creatures like skeletons and zombies just have very low INT. So, as a necromancer, watch out for enchanters.

[MaxWilson]

It depends on the undead. For example, ghouls and ghasts cannot be charmed, but wights can. This means that you can Geas your wights instead of re-casting Create Undead on them every day... if you're willing to deal with the headaches of free-willed super-wights who are merely charmed by you instead of controlled.

(Charmed = cannot attack you, you have advantage on social checks with them.)

[oxybe]

Knowing the party? if one party member survives long enough for me get those high level level wizard spells in a build that has 7 levels of paladin?

He might have a problem and a probable way of resolving it.

the rest of the party? two would be fine and our bard would likely ask if he could give the wights mohawks and borrow them to be his roadies.

However with this build (oathbreaker8/necro12) i'll only get my 8th level slot at character level 19, so it's a bit of a ways away, though the number of theoretical zombles and skelebobs i can theoretically have at my disposal is stupid dumb as using my 7th level slot to geas a wight for a year means lots of buddies.

Though the thought of playing what is effectively a campaign boss (super smart + charismatic leader of an undead horde) makes me giggle with glee. I'm thinking half-elf acolyte (read:half-drow) as icing on the charismatic and skilled cake. now I just need to find the right patron to apply towards.

[Corran]

Crusader's mantle (paladin 9) is a good spell to boost your undead minions with. Plus having your undead minions deal extra radiant damage is funny! Or have the bard grab it (along with inspiring leader), and have him buff the minions. Sure he will have to commit his concentration to it, so I guess you will have to convince him it is for the greater good, so to speak...

[MaxWilson]

Crusader's mantle (paladin 9) is a good spell to boost your undead minions with. Plus having your undead minions deal extra radiant damage is funny! Or have the bard grab it (along with inspiring leader), and have him buff the minions. Sure he will have to commit his concentration to it, so I guess you will have to convince him it is for the greater good, so to speak...

Just persuade him that the flashes of radiant light look good on roadies when set to music. :)

(Though, from a powergaming perspective, the extra 1d4 damage from Crusader's Mantle is pretty much irrelevant. I'd spend it on something which makes them more likely to HIT. E.g. Evard's Black Tentacles to restrain bad guys, or Otto's Irresistible Dance.)

[Kratch]

For example, Vampires are immune to charm.

The rest you got right, but I'm not seeing any condition immunities for vampires. Is there errata on it or something?

[Theodoxus]

Tangential to the thread, I have a player who has the same build and was curious if there was a way to boost the HD on zombies. I'm happy to homebrew it, but couldn't find anything with a cursory look - anyone else run into this? It'd be nice to have boosted pets instead of one shot road bumps at higher levels...

[wunderkid]

Tangential to the thread, I have a player who has the same build and was curious if there was a way to boost the HD on zombies. I'm happy to homebrew it, but couldn't find anything with a cursory look - anyone else run into this? It'd be nice to have boosted pets instead of one shot road bumps at higher levels...

Necro wizard adds his wizard level to their hp iirc. Aside from that. Inspiring leader could give a few a little hp buff? But actually increasing their hp isn't really going to happen outside of mage

[Theodoxus]

Necro wizard adds his wizard level to their hp iirc. Aside from that. Inspiring leader could give a few a little hp buff? But actually increasing their hp isn't really going to happen outside of mage

Yeah, that's what I figured... I already changed how Animate Dead works, and limited the number of total creations to account for it... I'll probably just have the animus be based on the HD of the raised critter, with 3 being the minimum. The primary reason I'm looking to add HD is I added the Corpsecrafter feat, and one option is to make the undead explode when destroyed - dealing 1d6+1d6/2HD... so skellies and zombies always dead 2d6... which is ok, but as the characters level up, it becomes less impressive... on top of the typical 18 HPs being pretty much a one hit bump for most level appropriate opponents.

[Ruslan]

Am I right in this or did I just miss a memo?You're basically right. It's on a case-by-case basis, and you need to read the specific spell and the specific monster statblock. Ghouls, for example, are immune to the Charmed condition. Banshees are immune to both Charmed and Frightened. But generally, undead have no blanket immunity. Zombies, for example, can be both Charmed and Frightened.

[Carlobrand]

Wow. This is going to be a difficult one to wrap my old-school D&D mind around. Back in the day, zombies and skeletons were mindless automata, obeying only very simple commands. Now they're more ... unlively?

[ShikomeKidoMi]

The rest you got right, but I'm not seeing any condition immunities for vampires. Is there errata on it or something?

Bleh, don't know why I wrote vampires, I meant to say 'ghouls'.