good class ideas for vampires?

[Dragoon]

For a game I'm DM, I'm planning to make the final BBEG who been causing the whole problems to be a vampire, either about class level 18. The vampire will be human, and I wasn't sure what class to make her, thinking possibly a full caster. So any ideas, only have core books. Will be building the rest of the character after I have chosen class.

Thanks.

[Starsinger]

Sorcerer, put that vampy charisma goodness to use!

[warty goblin]

I've heard Monk works pretty well too, due to all those level draining attacks and flurry of blows...

[Tellah]

I've heard Monk works pretty well too, due to all those level draining attacks and flurry of blows...

Seconded. My players are going up against one in the next couple of hours.

Mwa.

Ha.

Mwa ha ha ha ha!

[Dragoon]

thanks for the ideas, I'm thinking her right-hand man will be a monk and she will be a sorcerer.

[Leon]

Take the best of both and be a Monk/Sorcerer/ Enlightened Fist

[AtomicKitKat]

Look in the FAQ. IIRC, I think Vampire's level drain only works on their slam, not on "Unarmed strike".

[JellyPooga]

Bard.

Because you can't beat a good sing-song when unlife is getting you down.

[Leon]

Look in the FAQ. IIRC, I think Vampire's level drain only works on their slam, not on "Unarmed strike".

Maybe not for level draining purposes but Stun and Suck

[SoulCatcher78]

Cleric...all the way. I can see the hordes of undead that the PCs would have to work their way through just to catch sight of him. He can reinforce them against turning and burn out the party cleric of turn attempts before they get to him. Place him in a PC hostile enviornment (Cold/negative enrgy/low Oxygen) for the final battle with his cadre of skeleton warriors flanking the PCs as they errupt from the loose soil...tasty grinder indeed!

[The Prince of Cats]

Lord Strahd is a necromancer, but his hit-dice are d12s. Enervation with a couple of nice metamagic feats will really ruin the fighter's day, since they will be gaining negative levels from the slam-attacks anyway...

Strahd taught me that vampire-necromancers are evil in ways I had never imagined before that point...

[Tokiko Mima]

If you want to be really evil (like me! :smallamused: ) I gestalt'ed Strahds' Wizard(Necromancer) class with Lifedrinker, the exclusively vampire PrC in the BoVD. This lets him Quicken/Empower/Maximize spells and spell-like abilities as long as he has Lifewell points, which he gets from using Blood drain. Plus it gets him full BAB, which is nice for all those vampire alternate (dire bat/wolf, etc.) forms.

I would also look to get a few of the nastier spells for your vampire from BoVD. There's a particular spell (Grim Revenge, I think?) that on a failed save tears off the victims arm and immediately animates it as a floating tiny sized undead that attacks it's previous bearer and fights to the death (err.. or undeath, I suppose).

[Starsinger]

I would also look to get a few of the nastier spells for your vampire from BoVD. There's a particular spell (Grim Revenge, I think?) that on a failed save tears off the victims arm and immediately animates it as a floating tiny sized undead that attacks it's previous bearer and fights to the death (err.. or undeath, I suppose).

There's.. a spell that rips someone's arm off and beats them with it?! No wonder my ex liked the book of VD so much..

[Quietus]

There's.. a spell that rips someone's arm off and beats them with it?! No wonder my ex liked the book of VD so much..

Anyone else find the emphasized bit hilarious? No? Just me?

Shame.



Anyway - a vampire Monk could flurry, using unarmed strikes for the two flurry hits, and slams for the regular attack sequence, I believe. Either that, or flurry and then use the slams as secondary? Not sure exactly which is correct, but I believe it's somewhere in there.

[reorith]

snag a couple levels of aristocrat and then play the undertaker by puscifier.

[Pestlepup]

Actually a bard would make a delightful villain in this case. Not an all-powerful combat engine, but a nasty little beast nevertheless. A Vampire's insane ability bonuses coupled with a decent base charisma score, add in a bit of Eagle's Splendor or somesuch, perhaps a Spell Focus or Greater and you've got some decent save DCs going. Bard's spell list offers some delicious treats for a manipulator/illusion -themed vampire, starting with Mind Fog (-10 to will saves anyone?) and Song of Discord (Why kill the players when they can kill each other), continuing on to Seeming/Veil and a handful of other utility spells, and you've got the makings of a sneaky enemy indeed.

Lots of charmed and willing aides help distract the players (especially when "enhanced" with Seeming or Veil), and Mislead helps to ruin their day. Throw in the Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand feats and you'll even get over the Bard's modest spells per day allotment. Max out Disguise, and even True Seeing will make finding you a really fun challenge. :smallbiggrin: (First disguise a henchperson to look like you, yourself to look like whatever, then alter your entire retinue with Veil, and they'll be guessing until kingdom come where the squeak you went. :smallsmile: Actually I think I'll be using this baby myself sometime. Just for kicks and giggles. =) The possibilities in this one are boundless.

Even made a preliminary spell list, though Seeming can be ditched for Greater Dispel if needs be.
0 - Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Open/Close, Prestidigitation
1 - Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Disguise Self, Silent Image, Undetectable Alignment, Ventriloquism
2 - Alter Self, Eagle's Splendor, Darkness, Silence, Tongues
3 - Confusion, Slow, Crushing Despair, Dispel Magic,
4 - Hold Monster, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility
5 - Mind Fog, Mislead, Song of Discord, Seeming
6 - Greater Scrying, Veil, Animate Objects

[Thrawn183]

Favored Soul. Still get use out of all the stat boost, stay a full caster and do melee! Just sooo much fun. Though you wouldn't quite have wings at that level(?). I've always wanted to use one: "Look its got bat wings, no way its just a normal human... oh wait... its a favored soul of something bad."

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

If you want to go Melee, Crusader from TOB could be loads of fun as well. :D

[sleeping fishy]

whats bbeg? i guess you mean like boss, right? cuz i was gonna say that dont do it, vampire lvl adjust is way high... but for a boss npc it works.

crusader is a pretty good idea actually, except it heals! the vamp would hurt himself by healing himself, which would suck (lol, sry for the pun). u could make his devoted spirit stuff do negative energy damage instead? then he could add the damage to his attacks by targeting the pcs, or use them to heal himself up w/ neg energy.

[Jack Mann]

BBEG stands for Big Bad Evil Guy. It's used to mean to the driving villain in a campaign, or at least one of its major plots.

[Jasdoif]

Look in the FAQ. IIRC, I think Vampire's level drain only works on their slam, not on "Unarmed strike".Not quite. A vampire's Energy Drain works on any natural weapon they have. And a monk's unarmed strike is considered a natural weapon for effects that enhance or improve natural weapons. And Energy Drain certainly qualifies as an enhancement.

EDIT: Of course, Energy Drain is listed as working only once per round, so it's not like you can apply a dozen negative levels in a single flurry; but each attack in a round improves the odds of making a hit and using the Energy Drain.

[SpiderKoopa]

Ah, if only you were using the 2E vampire. His normal unarmed strikes level drain for two lvs per hit.
Flurry of blows with that ability is scary.

[kpenguin]

Monk for speed and... spring attack!

Okay, before you all start yelling, I'll say it: spring attack sucks... under normal conditions.

However, it is good when you can go where your foes can't reach you. Like, say, up on the ceiling. With spider climb and a monk's speed, you can do that and stay out of reach of the melee character's blows. Plus, vampires have dodge as a bonus feat, so that won't even be a problem. Just saunter on down, attack with slam, dealing energy drain and stun, and then saunter on up.

Wait... level 18? Nevermind. At that level, the wizard will be strapping fly to all his little friends.

I'd say full caster. 9th level spells FTW!

[Closet_Skeleton]

Just remember you can only deal negative levels once per round, no matter how many slam attacks you make.

With flurry of blow, making a single slam attack and all your other attacks as unarmed strikes may work, as monk unarmed strikes are natural weapons (hence not needing proficiency :smalltongue:).

[Pestlepup]

I hoped Closet Skeleton would be mistaken, but no such luck. Fudge. And I even thought a sorcerer/abjurant champion/fighter vampire using Girallon's Blessing to grow an extra pair of arms would be amusing. *Sigh* Well, easy come...

Addendum to my previous post:
In this case the vampire shouldn't be thought of as a bard in the traditional sense. No lutes, feathered hats and constricting pantaloons, but think along the lines of a charismatic orator (hence, Perform [Oratory] as the perform skill of choice). I pictured him/her as a bright, if not brilliant, manipulator and skilled, well, not thief but a scoundrel nonetheless. A bards skill base is incomparable, and easily accommodates a kind of arcane trickster/social predator. Running him/her in an adventure, especially as the Great Evil, would require a lot of work, since it would not be a very effective full-frontal killing machine. Rather, every combat encounter would be a carefully laid-out ambush of sorts, with the vampire pulling every trick to mislead, confuse and demoralize the players. And cause infighting, engaging only isolated or incapacitated targets. The layered deceptions of illusions upon conventional disguises would require heavy planning and guile from the DM, but I think it would be a very satisfying villain, if ultimately frustrating for the players. Mainly because a vampire of this design wouldn't engage in combat unless it was able to take full advantage of the situation, environs and its own capabilities.

It's never how hard you hit, but how hard it is to fight back. With some imagination, a bard's illusion spells can be put to frighteningly effective use. True Seeing will complicate matters, but it's not the ultimate foil one might think. First, it must be active (not be counterspelled), must remain active (not be dispelled), and must be at right place at the right time (not be distracted). And of course, must be conscious (not be killed). Even if all conditions were met, a cleric tends to stand out, and with proper hench-aid, can be effectively tied down. And True Seeing will not penetrate conventional disguises or sneakiness. Incidentally, bard has Disguise, Move Silently and Hide as class skills. Factor in the shapeshifting, Gaseous Form, Spider Climb and bard's surprisingly sneaky spell repertoire (Even with just the core books. It only gets better), and you've got one slippery and versatile villain on your hands.

[Roderick_BR]

I agree with SoulCatcher78, a vampire cleric pwns.

Strength bonus: More useful to a cleric than a wizard/sorcerer
Inteligence/Wisdom bonus: Good for both cleric and wizard, doesn't matter.
Charisma: Good for both cleric and sorcerer, doesn't matter much either.
HD changed to d12: Way better for wizard/sorcerer, but a cleric can stand in the front line more with a better hit dice.
AC bonuses: More useful for a frontliners.
And finally: An evil cleric can convert spells into Harm spells. A vampire is a undead, so he gains HP with harm spells, so you can turn spells into attack spells, and "healing" spells for yourself. That's the quicker.
Them add a bit of Clericzilla, and leave it at that.

[Roupe]

Well the Vampire Bard would be a nightmare to have as an enemy, not perhaps in combat. But as a threat & task to overcome.

Mind affecting, using illusions to fake evil PC acts, and high powers of persuasion. thats good tools to use in a society or to get people to have the wrong ideas.

And suddenly its the long arm of the law thats after the players & not the bard. The bard vampire could move around the countryside or the cities & cause slander & Havok. Not to mention be long gone before the players get there, reducing the players reputation where ever he passes..

Thats not a easy task to clear. especially for a group mostly geared to do combat.

[Bauglir]

Actually, I don't think an Evil Cleric can convert spells into Harm, because their ability only allows them to convert to Inflict spells. Would be great fun, though.

[Daedo daShoegod]

Try a Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror. Cha is the casting stat, it gets rebukes (which is great for a CHA class). A bunch of abilities dealing w/lich-like stuff (like DR/magic and bludgeoning around lvs 2-7), access to all arcane necromancer spells (I think), since she's undead she can heal herself w/negative energuy atks from her spells, AND finally her Vampire abilities are based on Cha (which should be her primary stat)...:smallbiggrin:

[Dan_Hemmens]

It depends on whether you want to go with effectiveness or style.

Effectiveness-wise, a Monk may well be the way to go (I'm not comfortable enough to say for sure). On the other hand, there's something just a little bit silly, if you ask me, about the BBEG of your campaign being an honest-to-god Kung Fu Vampire.

Sorcerer is suboptimal, but way cooler. Or you could always go with a fallen Paladin, although that would suck mechanically "Check me out! I have eighteen class levels that give me absolutely Jack!"

[sleeping fishy]

It depends on whether you want to go with effectiveness or style.

Effectiveness-wise, a Monk may well be the way to go (I'm not comfortable enough to say for sure). On the other hand, there's something just a little bit silly, if you ask me, about the BBEG of your campaign being an honest-to-god Kung Fu Vampire.

you kidding me?? monks normally arent so good, but vampire monk = total BADASS.

[Dan_Hemmens]

you kidding me?? monks normally arent so good, but vampire monk = total BADASS.

Which is sort of my point. Mechanically good, but really the whole idea strikes me as irredeemably silly.

I mean really, do you want the final showdown to go like this:

You open the heavy, oaken door of the count's cobwebbed inner sanctum, and creep across to his coffin. Sliding the lid aside, you find ... nothing. Only then do you realise that he has been watching you from the shadows.

"Foolish children," he hisses, in a voice thick with blood and treachery "did you think to catch me in my sleep?" His eyes gleam cold, predatory, and he smiles that knowing smile you have come do despise.

"I have lived for centuries," he continues, as he stalks towards you, his imperious gaze holding you transfixed as he moves closer, ever closer. "I have lived for centuries, and I shall not be undone by such as you. Our game ends, and it ends not with a scream, not with a sigh, but with a flying kick to the face!"

[sleeping fishy]

um, i didnt mean mechanically, i meant its badass if you play it seriously. sure, you can ruin it w/ silliness, but you could make the sorcerer vampire a crossdresser w/ a lisp too, see how that goes...

here, lemme give it a shot:


..."I have lived for centuries," he continues, as he stalks towards you, his imperious gaze holding you transfixed as he moves closer, ever closer. "I have lived for centuries, and I shall not be undone by such as you." The archer's hand slips, releasing his arrow; with a flicker of motion faster than your eyes can follow, the vampire bats it out of the air. Then he leaps, shooting up into the shadows of the rafters--and you lose track of him. Panic threatens to take hold as you realize he could be anywhere, could strike at any time.

basically you can screw up anything by playin it for laughs. if you dont want your vamp monk to be ridiculous, dont have him say stupid ****!!

[Dan_Hemmens]

basically you can screw up anything by playin it for laughs. if you dont want your vamp monk to be ridiculous, dont have him say stupid ****!!

Basically the problem is that I'm very much a "classes are archetypes, not just packages of abilities" kind of guy, so a Monk Vampire, to me, isn't just a vampire who can move fast and attack you more quickly, he's an honest to god Kung Fu practitioner, and I just can't take that seriously. It's not the dialogue, it's the actual character abilities. The moment I see him use Deflect Arrows or Stunning Fist, I'll immediately start thinking "oh my god, we're fighting a Kung Fu Vampire, how cheesy is that."

[sleeping fishy]

umm, okay, classes are archetypes (sort of, each class can fit a bunch of different ones, some more than others)... that doesnt mean monks have to know kung fu. monks punch dragons, kung fu wouldnt help with that. so they know martial arts in some broad way, and have ki powers, but if you cant get past "vamp w/ stunning fist = KUNG FU VAMP", well, um, thats your fault. plenty of people can and do. thats like cracking up coz if the vamp sneak attacks you then your fighting a burglar vampire. i guess you cant use the ninja or samurai or swashbuckler classes cuz of the stereotypes, too?

and im not sure why vampire monk is so funny to you... why cant you have a vampire monk in a serious way? monk isnt the same as kung fu, thats all you youre making up the kung fu part. do you think catholic priest when someone plays cleric? youre basically saying you cant help but look at it in the most ridiculous way availible to you. i think an ageless vampire spending decades perfecting his ability to kill w/ his body is badass... because i dont automatically picture dracula yelling "FLYING KICK".

[nooblade]

Never heard of quivering palm in real life... Besides, drow have small groups of monks, which makes little sense when you apply "kung fu" logic. "I'm a depraved, violent, sadistic member of this vast underground race of evil, but I have studied kung fu as well! Hi-yah!" Evil monks are just different from ordinary monk-stereotype. And then the racial modifier "vampire" might be played on more than the monk class, because its something that happened before undeath, etc.

I think that Bard and vampire make an interesting combination. Vampires need permission to enter particular areas, making Bard vampires more versatile. That kind of character could be like batman, more so than a sorcerer or wizard. You couldn't dimension door into a new place unless you had permission to with those characters. Of course it doesn't matter that much in a final battle, but its nice to flesh out the story as it has happened so far. Disguise would also help the character to cover up their identity without attracting attention from magically-talented authorities. True seeing would've caused a whole bunch of trouble for the character.

If it were up to me, I'd make a rogue, just because I love sneak attack.

[X15lm204]

Bard.

Because you can't beat a good sing-song when unlife is getting you down.

Don't forget the tea, bun and wholesome conversation on the themes of positive reinforcement.

Zer drink zat's in zer livink vein, Is not zer drink for me... :smallbiggrin:

[Matthew]

I am thinking of The Legend of the Golden Vampire now. Kung Fu Vampire Hammer Horror.

[Charity]

If you are going down that route, you should look at the boss of them all
Mr Vampire (http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/mr_vampire.htm) a.k.a. Geung si sin sang (http://kfccinema.com/reviews/horror/mrvampire/mrvampire.html)

[Matthew]

Heh, there was a very similar Vampire Kung Fu film mad ein the last couple of years,as well. I can't remember the title; something like 'The famous Vampire Hunters', I think.

[herrhauptmann]

"Zer drink zat's in zer livink vein, Is not zer drink for me... "
Thank you! I needed a good laugh.

Here's one, not a straight out caster like was mentioned. Black Flame Zealot (ComDiv)/Assassin. You gain cleric levels every second level of black flame, so slightly better Rebukes and Inflict spells. Also black flame and assassin death attacks stack. Further, the 10th level Black Flame gets unholy immolation. Destroys someone's soul, only true resurrect or a wish followed by resurrect can bring him back. (Watched someone 26th level kill a CR29 demigod of murder with that. DM then took his character sheet and made him the new demigod.)

Or, if your characters put a lot of money into just improving their weapons... Make a sundering fighter. Two handed adamantine weapon, with shatter on it (DMG 228). Add on Combat Brute(ComWar) and Leap Attack (ComAdv):
Charge your foe and sunder his weapon with a 10 ft jump for leap attack.
Every point of power attack does triple damage instead of double.

Combat Brute gives you sundering cleave. So you destroy the paladin's holy avenger, then cleave into his chest. Using the same exact bonuses as your sunder.

Next round you use Combat Brute's momentum swing. Which AGAIN gives you x3 for every point of power attack.
All that works with anything. But it goes best for fighter or fighter/blackguard I think. If you go straight fighter, think of all the special fighter feats from the PHB2 you can access. (Supreme Weapon Mastery)
This build will completely decimate the party tanks.

Another I actually fought (at a much lower level) was a vampire chain fighter. Drop into the middle of the party and start with the improved trip and whirlwind attack. Get a free attack on everyone you trip. Within 10 feet. Unless they have the right feat, you get an AttOp when they try to stand. If you still allow the Sword and Fist book in your campaign, pull out a Master of Chains. One of his abilities is to use a regular chain and lock in a manner similar to a net. However, this one requires so many feats, you can really only use it when primary class is a fighter.

Out of curiousity. Girallons Blessing gives an extra set of arms for you to use. What about if you stack that with the spell that fuses your multiple pairs of arms into just 2 for a strenght bonus?

[Bassetking]

Basically the problem is that I'm very much a "classes are archetypes, not just packages of abilities" kind of guy, so a Monk Vampire, to me, isn't just a vampire who can move fast and attack you more quickly, he's an honest to god Kung Fu practitioner, and I just can't take that seriously. It's not the dialogue, it's the actual character abilities. The moment I see him use Deflect Arrows or Stunning Fist, I'll immediately start thinking "oh my god, we're fighting a Kung Fu Vampire, how cheesy is that."

You want an appropriate use of Kung Fu Vampire?

Tenchien Von Lee, Vampire Monk. A creature of unspeakable evil, and unpardonable cruelty. Tenchien, bored after centuries of the same old bite, has taken to displaying his martial prowess in order to feed. Tenchien will flay the skin/rip off limbs/ render asunder the bodies of his foes with his bare hands, in order to gain access to the sanguine snack he so craves, rather than sinking to a Fangy Forced Entry.

There are entire martial arts designed as display, rather than as an actual killing method.

What happens when an Amoral undead with a thirst for the lifeblood of the living, and vastly augmented strength decides he wants to show off?

A Vampire Monk, that's what.