Every year, starting now, you gain a level IRL. What is your build?

[Troacctid]

You can take any class or combination of classes, 3.5 or PF, up to a maximum of level 20 in the year 2036. After that, you gain a bonus feat every year instead.

Since you are an ordinary person, not a protagonist, assume your ability scores use the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8).

[Bobbybobby99]

I become a mystic theurge using the Alternate source spell feat to be better at it, alongside a Craft Wondrous Item feat in 2022 to make the appropriate periapts and headbands. Wisdom 13, Intelligence 12, Charisma 11, Constitution 10, Dexterity 9, Strength 8. Pretty decent, I'd say. Essentially-
Spontaneous Hunter Druid 3/Generalist Wizard 1/Mystic theurge 3/Arcane hierophant 10/Mystic theurge +3. I get to have level 19 Druid casting, level 17 Wizard casting, and pretty much be a wrathful nature god made manifest.

Though I'm at least a little elite...

[ComaVision]

I'd just go into some prestige class that's going to make sure I don't die of old age. If I also lose most of my flesh, that's ok.

[Frendle]

Is it ok if I reject your premise that I use the non-elite array? <flexes muscles>

:smallcool:

[legomaster00156]

Expert 20. Max out Profession (chef). :smallcool:

[HammeredWharf]

Druid, and I take Natural spell. Impossible to screw up? Check. Makes use of my extreme wits, infinite wisdom and devilish charisma? Check. Reduced aging? Check. Endless ways to run away? Check. Can craft? Check. Not a nerdy wizard? Check. Will never kill my girlfriends flowers again? Check.

The downside is having to worship some hippie deity, but I can live with that.

[torrasque666]

Become a Dragonfire Adept 20. Solve all the problems with judicious use of both Bahamut's Discorporating Breath and Five-Fold Breath of Tiamat.

I'm totally a Lawful Neutral person.

[Gnaeus]

Start with a level of Witch or Daevic. Healing hex or immaculate touch give cures of at least 1d6/ day/person. Approach nearest large, prestigious hospital with an ER. Explain that you can raise their trauma survival rate to 100%, radically reduce patient time in bed for anyone recovering from an injury, and fix anyone who is bleeding out on an operating table in 6 seconds, for the low low cost of 1million/ year. Every hour or so, spend a few minutes touching people. Live in luxury while you level up. After the benefits of healing magic are proven, raise the cost. You could probably get a better offer from a military, but you might have to live somewhere awful.

[Arael666]

I'd just go into some prestige class that's going to make sure I don't die of old age. If I also lose most of my flesh, that's ok.

Just find a way to get yourself acces to PaO, you can just polymorph yourself into a younger body every decade or so.

[ComaVision]

Just find a way to get yourself acces to PaO, you can just polymorph yourself into a younger body every decade or so.

Off the top of my head, Walker in the Wastes sounds like the best option. Assuming I can't guarantee I'll get magic items, I may never be capable of casting PaO.

[MisterKaws]

Erudite, keep constant astral seeds, make a demiplane as soon as possible, and use the psionic sandwitch trick whenever I would be getting close to death by old age.

[Draconium]

Telepath Psion into Thrallherd. Keep my powers a secret to non-followers/thralls, and become an urban legend, a faceless figure in the shadows, an object of fear and awe. True Mind Switch into a younger, healthier body whenever my old one starts failing.

That, or Dragonfire Adept and solve all my problems with my fiery breath.

[Arael666]

Off the top of my head, Walker in the Wastes sounds like the best option. Assuming I can't guarantee I'll get magic items, I may never be capable of casting PaO.

If we were optimizing imortality, sure. But since we're talking about our actual selves, I'd pretty much like to keep all my fleshy appendages healthy and functioning for, you know, reasons.

[ComaVision]

If we were optimizing imortality, sure. But since we're talking about our actual selves, I'd pretty much like to keep all my fleshy appendages healthy and functioning for, you know, reasons.

Gentle Repose every day! Optimizing immortality is definitely my primary goal though.

[Deophaun]

If we were optimizing imortality, sure. But since we're talking about our actual selves, I'd pretty much like to keep all my fleshy appendages healthy and functioning for, you know, reasons.

Meh. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there willing to take the Lich-loved feat.

Gentle Repose every day! Optimizing immortality is definitely my primary goal though.
Doesn't actually work on the undead, unfortunately. Only the actually dead. Corpses in particular.

[AvatarVecna]

Venerable Warforged Artificer 2 with the Wedded to History feat. Maximize UMD and Spellcraft, and create/use a scroll of Teleport Through Time ASAP. Move back...let's say just a few thousand years; the Int damage won't kill you, and time won't either; at this point, you should have plenty of levels to work with, and can build your character to accomplish approximately "everything".

EDIT: If we're stuck with out squishy human bodies, just move back a few decades at a time, and only move back multiple centuries once you've got enough levels that being rendered Intelligence 0 won't kill you for a couple days...and then you can spend several centuries gaining superpowers.

[Blackhawk748]

Sorcerer/Snowshaper/Archmage

Firstly Snowshaper is Sandshaper for snow, and secondly i will have enough spells that i can do pretty much whatever i want. Plus SLA Wish

1st—bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, endure
elements, chill touch, speak with animals, conjure ice beast 1

2nd—eagle’s splendor, fox’s cunning, chill metal, owl’s wisdom,
resist energy, conjure ice beast II, icicle.

3rd—control temperature, shivering touch, dispel magic, dominate animal,
arctic haze, snowwalk, conjure ice beast III, blood snow, thin air, wind wall.

4th—ice storm, conjure ice beast IV, wall of coldfire,
column of ice.

5th—gelid blood, boreal wind, flesh to ice, conjure
ice beast V, ice to flesh, ice shape.

6th— heartfreeze, entomb, death hail, conjure ice beast VI

7th—call avalanche, conjure ice beastVII.

8th—conjure ice beast VIII, fimbulwinter.

9th—conjure ice beast IX.

[AuraTwilight]

Straight 20 Psion; don't need anything fancy, I just want to be psychic and immortal. Telepathic, probably.

[Esprit15]

Factotum 20. Take at least one rank in every skill, learn as many languages as possible. Max out Knowledge (Physics) and Knowledge (Engineering), and maybe invest some ranks in other things that seem useful. By venerable I can still manage a 21 INT, which isn't too bad (just go for 20, since we aren't adding any items or such), 276 skill points to splash at that time. Let's guess there to be about 50 skills applicable to our world, between craft, knowledge, and profession being extensive and only learning a few of those. That leaves room for some skills to invest heavily in, a few to get synergies for (like Diplomacy), and then room to be a polyglot. Heck, let's max out Diplomacy, too, maybe get into politics later on after doing engineering and physics. After all, they say there aren't enough scientists in Congress, right? And let's not even get into what someone casting spells could do.

STR 9 -6 =3
DEX 12 -6 =6
CON 10 -6 =4
INT 13 +4 +3 =20
WIS 8 +1 +3 =12
CHA 11 +3 =14

1) Skill Focus (Knowledge: Physics)
H) Skill Focus (Knowledge: Engineering)
3) Negotiator
6) Leadership
9) Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
And the rest is just Font of Inspiration. You know, for that time every day where you both need a +56 to Diplomacy and a +51 to Knowledge checks in STEM. If the world is more violent, add in Knowledge Devotion and Travel Devotion, too.

[erok0809]

Sorcerer 20 is good enough for me IRL, although I wouldn't mind Sorcerer 10/Sand Shaper 10. That's cool too.

[Eldonauran]

Reincarnated Druid (Pathfinder) 5: Auto Reincarnate FTW

Then probably Sorcerer 4 and Mystic Theurge for the rest.

[JBPuffin]

I'm going to work on an exact build; 3.5 cleric with 13 Wis, 12 Int, 11 Cha, 10 Con, 9 Dex, 8 Str, definitely gonna try and improve those totals :P. We'll see where this goes.

Cloistered Cleric w/ (Knowledge for free!), Community and Healing domains - my job is to provide team support, not go out and wreck things in melee.

Skills: Knowledge (History and Religion), Perform (Keyboard and Sing), Diplomacy, Listen, and Spot

Feats:
Human - Apprentice (Entertainer): I love me some music.
1st-level - Improved Initiative: I have a better chance of a chance of talking my way out of a situation or running the **** away.

Fight with Morningstar if I must, but generally keep my distance and cast buffs as much as possible.

I'll work on this more later.

[Cerefel]

I think I'd go warlock or binder because neither is terribly stat dependent.

[Barstro]

Does the same apply for everyone around me? It would drastically change my build if I knew others would be getting levels since I do not trust others who have power.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmm...

13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 -> Cha / Wis / Int / Con / Dex / Str


Spirit Guide Oracle, Occult Mystery, Forsaken curse (possibly go dual-cursed if it's compatible, for the extra revelations - Occult has some good ones). Level up boosts go to Charisma, which will put me at a 17 by 20th. Go for magic item crafting (I can be a great healer to get the cash for materials... or just drop ranks in Craft or Profession, or use Automatic Writing to play the stock market well) to eventually be able to boost stats noticeably. Use the Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment to nab Blood Money; this will let me use Restoration to wash away the negative levels from the Raise Dead of Forsaken if I don't have a supply of diamonds.

Once I hit 20th, if I get killed? I become a Ghost. Possess a suitable strongman, add some buffs, and I can resurrect myself! Or just stay a ghost and pretend to be alive (it can be done, if you're an item crafter).

Or maybe the same basic path, but using the Heavens mystery instead of occult. That gives a Reincarnate on death, which is good for shifting identities... although getting a new legend might be tricky.

If we get to pick race as well, go Kitsune, and definitely go Occult. Cha 19 at 20th, so 9th level spells, and Change Shape so that I'm me again (or someone else, with that one racial feat...) after possessing a suitable mark (likely a hardy animal).

With a bit of work, I should be able to gather enough resources to make all the magic items I could want.

Edit: Definitely occult. Earn enough money to buy the materials needed to craft stuff (+5 Tomes for all, +6 enhancement to all, et cetera), use Invisibility and Permanency from Spirit Guide: Lore: Arcane Enlightenment to make the equipment low-profile, and then when I eventually kick it and go Ghost, Polymorph Any Object a suitable animal into a human form of my choosing, and posses that (Pathfinder Polymorph Any Object doesn't mess with Int unless the original didn't have any, so no ethical concerns about slavery or anything), and I've got a permanent body again. Perhaps several. Possibly make a few simulacra the same way. Probably become a doctor somewhere in the mix, simply because it makes long-term cover much easier for an immortal... especially so, as I can change faces regularly...

So...

Dual-cursed Spirit Guide Oracle (Occult, Dual-cursed (Forsaken (advancing) and Legalistic)).
Revelations:
1: Automatic Writing
5: Fortune
11: Spirit Walk
13: Misfortune
19: Brain Drain

Feats:
1: Scribe Scroll
3: Craft Wondrous Item
5: Craft Magic Arms & Armor
7: Forge Ring
9: Craft Rod
11: ... eh, I've got 11 years to figure it out. If I do get to pick race, and I do go Kitsune, maybe the racial feats for here +....

[johnbragg]

OP says "IRL." So any class with the ability to cast spells (or use psionic powers, or invocations or incarnum), or that grants supernatural abilities is seriously hampered. So options are Expert, Rogue, Fighter, maybe Bard, Ranger, Barbarian, Scout, I guess Commoner. Oh, Factotum may still be in play.

Probably Factotum 20. Or maybe a few levels of Aristocrat if I can get away with it.

[Jack_Simth]

OP says "IRL." So any class with the ability to cast spells (or use psionic powers, or invocations or incarnum), or that grants supernatural abilities is seriously hampered. So options are Expert, Rogue, Fighter, maybe Bard, Ranger, Barbarian, Scout, I guess Commoner. Oh, Factotum may still be in play.

Probably Factotum 20. Or maybe a few levels of Aristocrat if I can get away with it.

These questions usually assume that magic works unless it's specified that it doesn't.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Warlock-sorceror-eldritch theurge! Ultimate magical power with unlimited eldritch blast!

EDIT: If we're saying no magic IRL, I'd probably be an expert. Or a paladin of freedom! Or both!

[Graypairofsocks]

The downside is having to worship some hippie deity, but I can live with that.

You don't actually have too.
Druids can just worship nature or something.

[Blackhawk748]

EDIT: If we're saying no magic IRL, I'd probably be an expert. Or a paladin of freedom! Or both!

I seriously doubt that is whats being said, otherwise we would all be Factotums.

[Judge_Worm]

Sorcerer 10/Incantrix 10//Cleric 10/Fighter 2/Psywar 8
You never said we couldn't gestalt. As for choosing sorcerer? I'm lazy, I'm not gonna wanna study a spellbook, or anything at all, let it come naturally. Cleric gets me all the healing I'll realistically need, and being a good martial combatant in my forties sounds sweet. Take some item creation feats to boost my stats. Dump dex, and drop all my points in charisma, then make items of intelligence and wisdom.

Alternatively, I'd just go Favored Soul 20. Easy, healing magic, good saves, and I can just miracle myself eternal youth later. Also you know, curing the sick and infinite food and water.

[Dimers]

Arcane Swordsage :smallbiggrin:

[Cosi]

Obviously, some sort of caster. Ideally, I'd like to get enough wishes to get +5 to all my stats. Also probably turn myself into a Lich. So either Wizard/Incantatrix or Cleric/Dweomerkeeper. Maybe Druid/Planar Shepard with some domains from Contemplative or whatever.

[Talionis]

Incarnate 1/ Factotum 3 / Totemist 2 / Chameleon 10

Incarnate is one of the most defensive classes in the game, but you don't need a lot of levels in it to be able to greatly increase Hit Points with Vitality and the Pauldrons would make you immune to disease. Having enough hit points to survive a bad car accident could be really important. But enhancing skills can be very lucrative . I think the first thing to do is to be able to self heal. But whimsically being able to fly even if you have to land every turn would be fun. If you get bored go and be good at something else.

Factotum helps you to increase skill checks even further and key off intelligence. Be funny to win Olympic events based on my solid intelligence boosting my Strength checks.

Totemist is the only way to open Totem Chakra for things like Blink Shirt. You don't need great stats just enough Constitution to have your Soulmelds you also probably have enough with Constitution being your second best stat.

Chameleon is the real gem though. The floating feat is invaluable, crafting for a while might be important, especially if you are the only person in the Universe with DND levels and access to magic. The feat can also arguably be used to Know spells and add spells to your spell list. In a no magical world, 6th level spells will seem Godly. You have access to potentially all spells below the level of seventh. Opening Chakras would be a good use of spells some times. I think the fourth level Druid Spell that lets you reincarnate your self in a new young body without level loss is available. But the real icing on the cake for Chameleon is the Stat boosting. It makes getting to 16 Intelligence or Wisdom easy. Fixing weak stats is hard and Chameleon is very respectable and very much helps with increasing stats.

Me personally , I think I'd swipe three levels of Marshal because I'd like to make people around me better I'd probably motivate Intelligence, be fun to be Elon Musk like and help others invent new technologies and motivate Wisdom. Unfortunately Charisma was probably my fourth most important stat so to make it work I'd have to improve the Stat with Chameleon, but it's doable for work days. Motivate Wisdom would be good for Profession checks and has synergy with Divine Casting. But being a CEO, is probably an end goal because working with a lot of people can do more good.

I have one last level to dip into and I'm not thinking of anything in particular, maybe Dragon Shaman to pick up an extra Aura. The aura that grants hit points per round if you are below half hit points would come in very handy in a hospital, you stabilize most people by being with pin thirty feet of them. Of course that might be pick able as a feat so you might be able to find something better.

But with that setup you can protect yourself from disease and most normal accidents, heal most wounds between auras and Divine spells, be smart enough to invent and craft and cast Arcane spells, have ridiculous levels of skills, most of which receive bonuses off Intelleigence which is what you keep maxed most of the time. Access to all spells below level 7. A floating feat... And you can greatly increase one of your Stats, which is changeable. Plus you have some auras that grant benefits which you could make money using and not be using a bit of your attention to do. But I highly value flexibility and working with others.

[ben-zayb]

OP says "IRL." So any class with the ability to cast spells (or use psionic powers, or invocations or incarnum), or that grants supernatural abilities is seriously hampered.So are classes whose Extraordinary Abilities break the laws of physics, right?

Seriously, I'd prefer something that blends well into ordinary urban society. As much as possible, no big and flashy effects, ridiculous transformations (except disguises for blending in), eerie chants/gestures, crapton of props/items, and pulling stuff out of thin air.

So given those, I'd go first for a Telepath 5 with the Telepathy ACF, picking up Mindsight ASAP. This nets me practical uses IRL like Bluff/Diplomacy/Gather Info/Sense Motive ranks, and powers like Psionic Charm, Catfall, Synesthete, Sustenance, Psionic Tongues, Detect Hostile Intent, and Touchsight. It will be followed with Slayer 10 for immunity to being located using devices and getting Listen/Spot ranks. I'll get more nifty powers like Temporal Acceleration, Psychic Reformation, Psionic Divination, Psionic FoM, Psionic Dominate, Psionic Modify Memory, Mind Probe, Psychometry, and Mass Cloud Mind, maybe spending a feat to get Metamorphosis too for dire situations where I'll need it, or for just being in disguise. Thrallherd would be redundant if I could pick up Leadership anyway, so I'll finish it of with just more Telepath levels. By now, I'll also be having Mind Seed and True Mind Switch for virtual immortality, Psionic Greater Teleport for easy transportation (but making sure nobody sees me popping in and out), and Bend Reality.

TL;DR: Telepath 10 / Slayer 10 for subtle powers, unlocatability, leadership, and social skill suite. Basically, a build most suited for those in "suits".

[FocusWolf413]

I'd probably go beguiler/Urpriest/mystic theurge with a one level warblade dip to pick up iron heart surge. Not the best, but certainly not bad. I'd get 9th level cleric spells, at least 8th level beguiler spells, and have the best utility combo I can think of.

Basing my stats off of what I know about myself, I'd probably have something like S8 D10 C12 I13 W11 C9.

If possible, I'd take the feat from Dragonlance to cast cleric spells from int. The eschew components feat would come in handy too.

[Troacctid]

Does the same apply for everyone around me? It would drastically change my build if I knew others would be getting levels since I do not trust others who have power.
For your first level, you have no idea whether anyone else is also getting these abilities, and you have to make your decision without that knowledge. It may become apparent over time that only a small selection of people have gained powers: namely, only those who posted in this thread. (Yep, that's right, get 'em while they're hot!)


OP says "IRL." So any class with the ability to cast spells (or use psionic powers, or invocations or incarnum), or that grants supernatural abilities is seriously hampered. So options are Expert, Rogue, Fighter, maybe Bard, Ranger, Barbarian, Scout, I guess Commoner. Oh, Factotum may still be in play.
Magic and supernatural abilities will function just fine, although getting hold of material components for any spells you cast may prove more difficult without spell component pouches readily available at the local magic supply shop.

[Dimers]

Ideally, I'd like to get enough wishes to get +5 to all my stats.


Magic and supernatural abilities will function just fine, although getting hold of material components for any spells you cast may prove more difficult without spell component pouches readily available at the local magic supply shop.

I'm tellin' ya, folks, it's Arcane Swordsage all the way. Even strictly following the guidelines for spells chosen, shapechange is a Personal Transmutation, and that opens the way for wish ...

[Platymus Pus]

I'd take the magical class known as a pimp.

[Quertus]

Well, if I understand what is going on, and am consciously choosing...

First, I would be sad that I have been dropped back to level 1, and that my stats have been tanked. Although, again, if I got to consciously choose them, some might improve.

Second, although it's already been answered, I would have assumed I wasn't alone. Not that this would do me any good.

Assuming I didn't go straight for home brew... Assuming anything was on the table... I'd want to find some way to survive to level 20. Troll-blooded Elan crusader 1 should be nice for level 1, even if I have to pick up a few flaws to do it. New body, multiple forms of healing, immediate / emergency bonuses to hp / saves. Yeah, I'd have a bit of explaining to do to anyone who knew me, but meh.

Then I'd hit the books, and spend a year planning what I could do with the next 19 levels. Off the top of my head... Probably looking at arcane spell caster / ur priest / mystic theurge, or just arcane spell caster / alternate (law? chaos? good?) tainted sorcerer (to make up for low stats / actually be able to cast spells without stats or components).

If I start to hate life, I guess I might consider cheating / cheesing polymorph into an illithid for illithid savant, if I could get past the ick of eating brains (or the idea of summoning things just to eat their brains, even if I was going to resurrect them afterwards). Never beholder for beholder mage, though - not interested in being big and round, or constantly needing to ask others to help me reach things / scratch my itches / etc ;)

Assuming elans age, I'd use... steal life?.... from BoVD, to stay young. Hooray for it not actually aging the subject!

If at all possible, I would not reveal my powers publicly until high level.

[Troacctid]

I'm tellin' ya, folks, it's Arcane Swordsage all the way. Even strictly following the guidelines for spells chosen, shapechange is a Personal Transmutation, and that opens the way for wish ...

Arcane Swordsage is an incomplete class without enough rules in the book to actually play it, so assume it's off the table.

[Taelas]

You don't actually have too.
Druids can just worship nature or something.

Don't even have to do that. Druids are not required to worship anything at all.

As for me... Telepath into thrallherd, get an army of followers, live as a king for the rest of eternity (using true mind switch as necessary). 11, 9, 10, 13, 12, 8.

[Silva Stormrage]

Artificer for me, you can get infinite crafting XP up and running fairly quickly, though I will admit for the first 3 years or so might be a bit less useful than others :smalltongue:

Still once you can get infinite crafting XP out you can just start cranking out magic items like crazy and do all the other crazy stuff artificers are known for (Spell Storing Item abuse, etc etc)

This is all assuming how crafting would work IRL, since the material components are never specified and price is in "GP" I assume I would know what the material components are and would be able to buy them with money.

Or if it was allowed to work going for a double progression class stacking on itself (Like ultimate Magus progressing wizard with both ends or Sha'ir with mystic theuruge) to progress to higher level spells quicker.

[Xar Zarath]

PF (Generalist) Wizard 20. I'll reverse engineer all the spells (arcane/divine) from DND and other rpg's into arcane spells with Wizard levels. Make a demiplane adjacent to the near Ethereal with this planet and then after a few centuries maybe (of course I'm immortal, maybe a lich?" I'll travel to other universes.

Why stay here for a while you say? Where else in the immediate galactic system is there a planet with 7 billion units worth of raw materials:smallbiggrin: Mwahaha...but don't worry I am not the type to rule the world and all that crud. I can make my own private universes but I will be needing a lot of resources to build it up.

Maybe when all human life is done on this planet, I'll restart the process again, under my guiding hand, the next nu-man will be my stepping stone to divinity!:smalltongue:

[ExLibrisMortis]

StP (mantled/favoured discipline, depending on mantles) erudite/something crafting-oriented, hopefully PF psionics has something like that. If gestalt, definitely add //artificer. I think the UPPD isn't that relevant, given that I'm basically never in combat (hoping that doesn't change too much), so I can always take the time to use a workaround. Aim to get +int templates, such as lich, using some custom magic item of gentle repose. I mean, we can nonmagically preserve corpses just fine, so a mid-level spell should be able to do it perfectly. Possibly reincarnate as a primordial half-giant, if type-changing magic works for that.

Or cheat, and use fusion + astral seed to get nicer ability scores, and some extra everything.

I would expect that material components can be obtained with plane shift, as long as you can get to the elemental plane of earth (diamonds, gold, platinum etc.), and then Sigil. That's more for the crafting than anything else.

[Failed Phantasm]

If I'm being honest with/about myself instead of indulging in idle wish-fulfillment? Commoner 20.

Not sure what my single simple weapon proficiency would be.


EDIT: Str 9, Dex 12, Con 10, Wis 13, Int 11, Cha 8. But to say that I should have a 13 in any of my scores is gross exaggeration.

[JyP]

You can take any class or combination of classes, 3.5 or PF, up to a maximum of level 20 in the year 2036. After that, you gain a bonus feat every year instead.

Since you are an ordinary person, not a protagonist, assume your ability scores use the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8).
Depends on whether I am the only one gaining level or if everyone is gaining levels (Mage: The Ascension campaign anyone ?) :smallwink:

[Troacctid]

If I'm being honest with/about myself instead of indulging in idle wish-fulfillment? Commoner 20.
You get to choose a class and gain new abilities, skills, etc.


Depends on whether I am the only one gaining level or if everyone is gaining levels (Mage: The Ascension campaign anyone ?) :smallwink:
For the first year, you don't know whether anyone else is gaining levels and you have to make your choice without that information. Over time, if the other people in this thread reveal their powers, it will become clear that only a few people have gained these abilities.

[JyP]

For the first year, you don't know whether anyone else is gaining levels and you have to make your choice without that information. Over time, if the other people in this thread reveal their powers, it will become clear that only a few people have gained these abilities.
Seems more like an Amber campaign then - I don't want to be Corwin though :smallbiggrin:

well, as I am not a big optimizer and don't want to fight at all - I will surely take artificer or wizard levels all the way to output magic items. But will we really need 25 gold pieces in the real world to create a simple scroll at the end of first year ? (American Gold Eagle $592.71 for ex...) Do we have xp usable to create magic items at all ?

[Troacctid]

Seems more like an Amber campaign then - I don't want to be Corwin though :smallbiggrin:

well, as I am not a big optimizer and don't want to fight at all - I will surely take artificer or wizard levels all the way to output magic items. But will we really need 25 gold pieces in the real world to create a simple scroll at the end of first year ? (American Gold Eagle $592.71 for ex...) Do we have xp usable to create magic items at all ?

3.PF, so you can just use Pathfinder rules for magic item creation (no xp cost). I don't know the exchange rate between real-world currency and gp.

[JyP]

I don't know pathfinder enough... so let's say artificer 20 for me - to have an homonculus able to create magic items 24h a day, stored in a portable hole. I will have enough free time and money to do as I wish then... and choose other classes.

[Ashtagon]

Wedded to History feat. That's the "life forever" bit sorted out at least.

I see a lot of people going full caster, but with a primary caster stat of 13, that's not going to be optimal. The druid class does have a lot of interesting features worth having though. If looking at base classes only, probably multiclass into shugenja, favoured soul, or warlock. Not wizard or archivist (vulnerable to spell book loss). Binder is also a distinct possibility, depending on what vestiges are available.

[Xerlith]

What happens to currently possessed physical abilities? Can they be recovered due to working out/training, or are they limited to the ways you can influence them in the rules?
What about the mental ones? If I don't pump Knowledge(Engineering) and don't have the Technologist feat, does that mean I literally remember nothing of my Computer Science degree?

First, I'd spend the first week crying in a corner because of muh gainz diminished physique, due to assigning stats:

Str 10, Dex 8, con 12, int 13+2(human), wis 11, cha 9.

Traits: Pragmatic Activator, Clever Wordplay (Diplomacy).

I'd make myself a Conjurer (Teleporter) Wizard 1. This gives me access to unlimited Cantrips, Infernal Healing and an abrupt jaunt-like ability to ensure survival. I put skillpoints in UMD, Know(Engineering), Craft (Computer Program) and Profession (Programmer). Then ECS Artificer all the way.

Use Salt for unlimited crafting money (1lb salt = 5gp).

1st level feats: Skill Focus (Profession (programmer)), Technologist. Retrain those later.
At 7th level get Leadership, assign GF as cohort, get her to instantly gain levels in a full caster class.

Craft everything with a Dedicated Wright.

Get continuous Prot from Evil, nondetection and mind blank effects asap.

The same priority goes to a 2/day item of PAO.

Until I get there, live a normal life augmented by minor magical effects, because I'm too lazy to obtain world domination. Later, find a way to hook a broadband Internet connection to a Mage's Magnificent Mansion. PAO into a body I want. When I getolder, PAO myself into a younger body.

Okay, I'd probably dominate the more warmongering world governments and make them pump the money into clean energy sources instead.

[Amphetryon]

Do those of us in the RL Middle-Age category adjust our stats accordingly?

[Barstro]

This is a really great question that can be answered by my only after other questions are answered.

I base my answer on the following assumptions;
1) We still live in this world as we know it
a) Fey does not exist
b) No other mythology exists (except for the pantheons, so Clerics still work)
i) Some spell components will not be found
c)There are no hordes of treasure in caves every mile
d) There are no magic items until they are made
e) A lot of fights are not going to happen (early on), so builds can be based more on planning for the endgame than winning fights.

2) The economy can be effected by our choices
a) The aforementioned "salt trick" will not produce unlimited wealth; it will make salt cost even less than it does now.
b) Certain things (Healing) will be worth a lot at first, but soon everyone will be doing it and it will not be worth much at all
i) Unless these class levels only go to a few people.
c) Related; Even cantrips will be worth millions if only a few people benefit from this scenario. The more people who get class levels, the less worth abilities have
d) Teleport spells can destroy other transportation economies
i) After so many years, the world will look and act very differently.

3) Healing will be considered a miracle until suddenly everyone is doing it
a) That makes war skirmishes useless, but instant death (ie. nuclear attacks) much more important.

4) People are still very mortal for the first few levels
a) Most people will try to keep a low profile early on
b) We will not know how many people are getting these levels for several years.

5) Power Corrupts
a) Eventually, those with these powers will make plays for dominance
i) It will look a lot like Highlander

6)Due to the power plays and nuclear war being the only way to cause permanent damage;
a) The world will soon be a barren landscape with pockets of civilization
b) Food will be in short supply
i) Classes that can create food will have a better chance at survival
ii) Classes that can create their own dimensions will have a better chance at survival

6) We level every year; that's it
a) There is no reason to go on adventures; it gains us nothing new
i) It's more efficient to stay home and craft magical items.

Since we know we gain a level each year, my thought is to play for the endgame and go for immortality. I'm not well versed in D&D and only slightly more versed in Pathfinder. The only Class I know that gets immortality is Alchemist.

Alchemist;
Pre-20: Max Intelligence. Craft items. Make Homunculi to help crafting.
Level 20: Immortality

Cons;
I do not know if they can make food or their own dimensions.
------------------------
If there are other ways to get immortality, and another character can benefit from it;
Witch with Trickery Patron (Time Stop is the endgame, protection along the way).
1: Healing Hex, make money while I can
Early Levels: Craft. Possibly start a coven, but I don't trust people. Get Eschew Materials and Blood Money to power my spells.
Mid Levels: Try to befriend some Druids so we can survive away from the impending wars
Mid-Late: Protect my area with Magic Jar if anyone comes in.
Late: Build my other dimensions.

[atemu1234]

If this is Pathfinder-allowed, Wizard into Immortality discovery, then eventually become a dragon (PrC in Dragon Magazine for Athasian dragons)

[Tiri]

Probably mostly Warlock and two levels of Chameleon.

Invocations lasting all day with things like flight and invisiblity would be quite fun to use, not to mention low-level spells from any spell list.

I think my ability scores are closest to Str: 8, Dex: 12, Con: 10, Int: 13, Wis: 10, Cha: 9.

I'd probably use my every-four-levels ability increase to get Charisma to 10, then increase Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Wisdom. Depending on how high I eventually settle on wanting my final Strength to be, I might take Dexterity off that list.

[Amphetryon]

Wu Jen 6/Ruathar 3/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10. Stat priority INT>CON>DEX=WIS>STR>CHA, assuming my Age Category has an impact. Ruathar could be given any fluff representation you like.

Feats: Healing Devotion, Mother Cyst, Sudden Extend, Skill Focus: Concentration, Fell Frighten, Martial Study: Diamond Mind (to gain Concentration to all 3 Saves), Martial Study: Iron Heart x2 (Wall of Blades and IHS, the former chosen only for access to the latter), Craft Staff.

Wu Jen would emphasize Water as the Elemental Mastery choice. The Warblade level would be used for the REF + FORT Diamond Mind counters, and to replace Damage with a Concentration check. Pearl of Black Doubt would help make up for other deficiencies in AC in the unlikely event of physical combat. JPM Maneuvers and Stances will be used entirely for Devoted Spirit style; between that and Healing Devotion, I should have relatively good healing powers for a primarily Arcane caster.

Obviously, I'm going for the Wu Jen + JPM Body Outside Body/Emerald Immolation trick.

I'm working under the assumption that there would be relatively few casters, and written Spells and other Spell Completion items would be both rare and dangerous in the wrong hands, so minimizing my creation of them in order to minimize that danger. Other assumptions are that with that limited number of casters, survival to implement late-level strategies is more important than an immediate power grab, and that retraining of Feats will be difficult but possible, if needed in those late levels.

If Flaws are allowed, Practiced Caster and Quick Recovery slot right in.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I see a lot of people going full caster, but with a primary caster stat of 13, that's not going to be optimal.
Well, you get an increase at level 4, 8, 12 and so on, so you should have an 18 in your casting stat at level 20. The only times you'll have trouble casting your highest-level spell is at level 11 (6ths with only 15 casting stat) and then at 13+. By that time, you should be able to get a +2 intelligence bonus from an item, persisted fox' cunning (or equivalent), or some template/reincarnate cheese.

Any middle-aged posters will have a starting stat of 14, so they'll only be in trouble at 15 and 17+, which is even easier to solve, as you can just use fox' cunning > PAO.

[Ruethgar]

Human Paragon 1/Spontaneous Divination Wizard 1/Chameleon 7/Sorcerer 1/Paragon 2/Ultimate Magus 8

After the Chameleon levels(early entry via Lucid Dreaming shenanigans), I would transform myself into an Endless Hatchling Silver Dragon with Lore Drake and then contract Spellhoarding in my efforts to become an Ultimate Magus. I would at some point get a Mirror Mephit for obvious reasons and, if others had this, I would leave the world ASAP with friends and family and make a lovely place to live in a closed Rope Trick space.

If I were the only one, I would just colonize and teraform the moon, spending a fair bit of time enjoying being able to create unhindered and perhaps orchestrate a Watchmen style peace(read the novel, they messed up the movie's end). However, because of my practical omnipotence and omniscience, I would probably go into Aspect of the Wolf as one of my family member's pets for most of the time so I would avoid the soul crushing loneliness of being a god among men and could just be happy as a dog. Occasionally I would probably try and fix things in the world, or at least bolster people who look like they would help, but I would not do the elaborate, invasive maneuvering that some people have suggested in other threads(chain curses of infertility, marks of justice, and mind rape).

Str 8
Dex 11
Con 10
Int 18
Wis 14
Cha 11

Flaw: Murky Eyed: Able Learner
Flaw: Noncombatant: Magical Affinity(Create Element: War Sanctum Twin Ocular Chain Split Extension Extend Persist with Two Grass Growth Side Effects|Nurturing Seeds: Sanctum War Twin Double Grass Growth Side Effect|Wood Wose: Sanctum Twin Ocular Chain Split Persist Extend)
Human: Precocious Apprentice
First: Human Heritage
Retrain: Three E's Eberron Crafter
Third: Wild Cohort
Floating: Mostly Item Creation
Sixth: Leadership
Ninth: Landlord
Paragon: Alternate Form
Twelfth+: Demigod Non-Epic Epic Destiny
Ultimate Magus: Extend Spell

[Deophaun]

I see a lot of people going full caster, but with a primary caster stat of 13, that's not going to be optimal.
You should be getting +4 stat increase through leveling, and for a good chunk of members they'll also be getting age adjustments, so ending with an 18 or 19 in the primary stat is doable. And if we're willing to lose a caster level, there's always Human Paragon to shore that up.

If Extra Spell allows you to take spells off another class list, I might go Dread Necromancer 20. That Extra Spell is mandatory though to avoid all the social implications of being a walking desiccated and decaying corpse.

[Solidarity]

You can take any class or combination of classes, 3.5 or PF, up to a maximum of level 20 in the year 2036. After that, you gain a bonus feat every year instead.

Since you are an ordinary person, not a protagonist, assume your ability scores use the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8).

Assuming that makes us level 1, IRL go Wizard.

1) make sure to take cheat as one of your level 1 spells

2) hit up different casinos every week

3) ???

4) profit!

After that, it all depends on how it went. With a good amount of cash, Wizard can branch off in any direction. Obviously lots of item creation feats. :smallbiggrin:

[Cosi]

Some thoughts:

1. Wizards, and anyone else who wants magic items are boned. Getting a Runestaff, Knowstone, or Scroll is likely to be all but impossible. This gets better once you have wish to get boccob's blessed books full of spells (or whatever), but Clerics have a definite leg up early.

2. wish is super good in this, particularly with Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell. You get to bump your stats up, and also wish for magic items (for example, Craft Contingent Spell'd reincarnate should make you nice and immortal).

3. With that said, the high level stuff is not super exciting. It's different from normal D&D (particularly if you assume that there aren't Genies or Zodars wandering around), but the endgame is essentially the same. You pick up SLA or supernatural wish (or shapechange, or gate or any of the other spells that make you win the game), then you win everything forever.

4. Having to start with a 13 in your primary casting stat is rough. Especially if you can't rely on planar binding to get you the first wish to hit the 14 or 15 breakpoint. Otherwise, you don't get 9ths until middle age. Which sucks, though is admittedly not super bad given that you get to middle age before you get 9ths unless you are under 18.

The power build is probably Wizard 5/Cleric 1/Dweomerkeeper 4+/Something Else. That gets you both wish and Supernatural Spell, which is nice.

In terms of actual utility from the beginning, I'd probably go Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/Whatever 5 instead. I don't think you can get wish in that setup (barring some shenanigans). But you do get scholar's touch (read all the books), healing magic, and every single Cleric spell in the entire game.

I think there's an unholy hybrid involving Dread Necromancer, Rainbow Servant, Arcane Disciple, substitute domain, and the difference engine that gets Supernatural Spell, the entire Cleric list, wish, and other goodies, but that seems excessively complicated for this.


Still once you can get infinite crafting XP out you can just start cranking out magic items like crazy and do all the other crazy stuff artificers are known for (Spell Storing Item abuse, etc etc)

You can make 1000GP of items per day. Not nothing, but not really "cranking out".


StP (mantled/favoured discipline, depending on mantles) erudite

Barring other people in this thread, you wouldn't have anyone to brain-lick for powers. Getting spells at all is going to be super difficult, especially getting spells off of non-Wizard lists.

Also, how do XP costs work?

[Segev]

Pathfinder Wizard into some sort of full-casting PrC, maybe Incantatar (though not sure whether I really need the metamagic cheese IRL) or Air Savant (just because being a humaniform air elemental could be cool). PF Wizard is important: with it, I can use the Spellcraft-to-make-up-for-not-having-the-spell rules to scribe scrolls of any kind of spell I wanted, and then copy them into my spellbook.

[Gnaeus]

I really think witch is going to outperform wizard here.

1. Hanging out with your cat every day sounds much more fun than studying a book daily.

2. The 2 easiest ways to make a ton of money at low levels seem to be: 1. healing
2. cheating at gambling. The witch can take Evil Eye and Healing hex and do both by level 2, without components. They also get another game changing winner, Weather Control, at level 10. Healing may be suboptimal in game, but IRL, it's the first thing you want, and wizards have to jump through hoops to get it. Are there outsiders to bind? If not, or if our world's outsiders are not the 3.PF ones, wizards are screwed by things as simple as diseases.

3. Witch spell list is maybe 5% worse than wizard at high level, so practically they are limited to patrons which get gate, shapechange or miracle. Fortunately, there are many. Dimensions is probably most op, but Agility, Transformation and Endurance look more fun.

4. A witch who loses familiar is way way better off than a spellbookless wizard. He still has all his hexes, which are most of what he will be using daily anyway. And when he summons a new familiar, he can completely repick 2 spells per level. Wizard with a replaced book needs to start writing.

[Felyndiira]

If this is 3.5, then I would probably shoot for Warlock. Maybe with a cleric dip and Eldritch Disciple as my prestige class. I don't want to break the world or anything like that; Warlock, on the other hand, has neat everyday powers that will serve me a lot better in everyday society than being able to mailman enervation.

Having the ability to fly and go invisible whenever I want to, dimdoor infinitely, arbitrarily boost skills, and that sort of stuff is enough for me. Eldritch Disciple would be so that I can heal myself a bit as well and fix some sparse stuff with mending.

If this is Pathfinder classes with DSP, then I would easily choose Path of War Mystic. I would substitute out something for Silver Crane, then go join Médecins Sans Frontières with my newfound healing powers (and ability to just no-sell disease) and actually do something useful with my life :smallsmile:. I would still have Veiled Moon teleports and elemental flux fun as well, should I feel like wind surfing somewhere.

[Blackhawk748]

Assuming that makes us level 1, IRL go Wizard.

1) make sure to take cheat as one of your level 1 spells

2) hit up different casinos every week

3) ???

4) profit!

After that, it all depends on how it went. With a good amount of cash, Wizard can branch off in any direction. Obviously lots of item creation feats. :smallbiggrin:

I had the same plan, but went Sorcerer for Bluff synergy

[Alent]

It's been too long since I played a 3.x game, I had a few bard builds I really wanted to try that'd be fun, but I don't remember the feat progression and don't have them written down for some reason.

I'd probably sit down and work out how the progression on my old 3.P bard build that I never used because the campaigns weren't high enough OP to use. It used a PF Sorc/Feat dip/Heartfire Fanner/Sublime Chord setup to get dual arcane 9ths casting with Perform check to caster level, and that one racial feat that let PF Sorcs use Wizard spellbooks. I recall I was trying to work out a way to work in Urpriest and Fochlucan Lyrist, but I don't remember if I ever got that to work or not.

Alternatively, some type of Grammarist, because telling the laws of the universe to go cry in a corner is fun.

[Jack_Simth]

Solidarity: The problem with the Cheat spell at Casinos: Casinos use statistics to detect fraudsters, and you're putting yourself off the curve. While they may not know how you're doing it (and will probably pay you out if they can't specifically prove anything... but depending on how Cheat works, they may catch the cards changing on camera, which could get you arrested), they'll know you're doing it, and ban you fairly quickly. Additionally, they also talk to each other about problem people; after two or three, you will find yourself pre-emptively banned before you ever step foot in the door.

[Deophaun]

Solidarity: The problem with the Cheat spell at Casinos: Casinos use statistics to detect fraudsters, and you're putting yourself off the curve. While they may not know how you're doing it (and will probably pay you out if they can't specifically prove anything... but depending on how Cheat works, they may catch the cards changing on camera, which could get you arrested), they'll know you're doing it, and ban you fairly quickly. Additionally, they also talk to each other about problem people; after two or three, you will find yourself pre-emptively banned before you ever step foot in the door.
Which is why you pick up disguise self at the same time.

[Jack_Simth]

Which is why you pick up disguise self at the same time.
Workable, but you've got some issues:
1) Starts at ten minutes, so you really only get a few throws (which is true anyway, as you can only cast Cheat so many times)
2) It's got an interaction will save, you'll be carefully examined by many different people, and it's unclear if objects (cameras) see illusions or not.
3) Minor nitpick: If you're using a disguise every time... what's the real point of hitting a different casino every week?

[Deophaun]

2) It's got an interaction will save, you'll be carefully examined by many different people, and it's unclear if objects (cameras) see illusions or not.
Cheat has a Will save as well.

Since non-phantasm illusions work just as well on mindless creatures as intelligent ones, I don't see why cameras wouldn't be fooled. As the entry for glamers states:

A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.
Since the effect of the glamer is on yourself, not the people looking at you, there's no reason for cameras to bypass it.

3) Minor nitpick: If you're using a disguise every time... what's the real point of hitting a different casino every week?
Don't want to drive the poor dears out of business?

Also, cheat would work on slots. The main problem with it is, it's just a single re-roll per casting, which is probably not enough to fully protect you from losing your shirt unless you're doing your gambling over a long period of time. In which case, there are better ways to get rich.

[druid91]

Gestalt Archivist|Wizard Generalist 3 / Mystic Theurge|Erudite 17.

For ALL the options.

[Jack_Simth]

Cheat has a Will save as well.
Which begs the question of saves. Stay away from cards, obviously - anything with an active participants, which also means no roulette and all the 'good' games. So you're stuck with slots, and it's unclear if machines get saves.
Since non-phantasm illusions work just as well on mindless creatures as intelligent ones, I don't see why cameras wouldn't be fooled. As the entry for glamers states:

Since the effect of the glamer is on yourself, not the people looking at you, there's no reason for cameras to bypass it.Yet people don't need to touch you to get a save, and objects are never fooled by Shadow Conjouration and it's ilk. Objects with senses simply are not addressed in the rules, and different DMs could very easily look in multiple places for a 'closest match' and come to different conclusions.

On the plus side, it'd be really simple to test. A rather lot of stores have displays showing that you're on camera, and most people have cameras on their phones at this point.
Don't want to drive the poor dears out of business?That's sensible.


Also, cheat would work on slots. The main problem with it is, it's just a single re-roll per casting, which is probably not enough to fully protect you from losing your shirt unless you're doing your gambling over a long period of time. In which case, there are better ways to get rich.A reroll on a 49% 'win' and 51% 'lose' where 'win' is 'double your stake' and 'lose' is 'forfeit your stake' means a 73.99% chance of a 'win'. If it's 40/60, that's a 64% chance of a 'win'. If it's 30/70, that's a 51% chance of a 'win'.

With the caveats that it's unclear what does and does not get a save, if you get, say, three reroll possibilities out of your 1st level spell slots on a machine where you have a 30% chance of tripling your stake and a 70% chance of losing it, you triple 51% of the time, so your average return is 1.53. Knowing that there's a chance of loss, you do not fully put in your stake each time. You go in with $300, make three $100 bets on the machine, and (on average) walk out with $459 ($159 profit). Sure, some days you'll walk out with $0 ($300 loss), some days you'll walk out with $900 ($600 profit), but the statistical average will be $459 ($159 profit).

[Deophaun]

Which begs the question of saves.
Error: Circular reasoning not found. Did you mean "raises the question" instead? (Sorry, pet peeve)

Yet people don't need to touch you to get a save, and objects are never fooled by Shadow Conjouration and it's ilk.
People need to actively study you to get a sense that something is out of place--that's what belief is defined as: "[failure] to notice something is amiss." A camera has no mind to study with, and can never recognize anything (now, with a facial recognition program behind it... that's getting iffy). Shadow conjuration and its ilk are not glamers. They are shadows. What they do or do not do is, therefore, irrelevant. And yes, objects with senses are not addressed in the rules, which means we default to what is: glamers affect the appearance of the target. As there are no special rules for handling non-creatures with senses, that's where the rules begin and end. Anyone studying the target through the camera, however, gets their Will save.

Sure, some days you'll walk out with $0 ($300 loss), some days you'll walk out with $900 ($600 profit), but the statistical average will be $459 ($159 profit).
Which is hardly striking it rich. And the average is not what we're concerned about, because averages are for when you're dealing with a large sample. If you've ever played with an RNG, you know that even a 74% chance to win produces a fair share of bad streaks. It's going to be slow going to build up your bank so that you can gamble big and still be protected for when you fall off the south end of the Bell curve.

and it's unclear if machines get saves.
Even if machines did get a save for cheat: what, exactly, would they do about it? All the save is for is to recognize that something strange is going on.

[Sapreaver]

dual cursed oracle 10 going in to envoy of balance. Life revelation with Unchained curse and the one that lets you roll initiative twice for skill check penalties

Just go around being nothing keeping things in balance since I'm 25 right now I'd probably get like 25 bonus feats if I'm lucky but I'd try and find a way to become immortal and slowly work my way towards becoming a universal force like the phoenix. If I'm allowed to cheese it I'd take oracle 1 5 times and advance them each twice just for luls.

[Ashtagon]

Even if machines did get a save for cheat: what, exactly, would they do about it? All the save is for is to recognize that something strange is going on.

Casino security are notorious for finding any machines that start paying out big to have developed a "flaw", cancelling the last big win in the process. Most of them are designed so that any truly big win needs manual confirmation from a security office before they physically pay out in any case.

Cheating at slots is a mug's game.

[Quertus]

Casino security are notorious for finding any machines that start paying out big to have developed a "flaw", cancelling the last big win in the process. Most of them are designed so that any truly big win needs manual confirmation from a security office before they physically pay out in any case.

Cheating at slots is a mug's game.

The way these things are set up, the slots machine could have a 0% chance to pay out on the next 10 runs. You reroll that 0%, and... It still doesn't pay out. But cheat does allow a will save to notice something fishy... And requires verbal, somatic, and focus components. So you're really noticed.

Just like all the miracle healers, and everyone else using their powers obviously.

And when someone investigates, be it government, or mafia, or whoever... And asks questions, and notices the pattern that only people who have visited this board are affected... and they start backtracking IPs... Yeah, I'm not really expecting any of us to reach level 2.

Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, tell me more about that technologist feat. I'm curious whether I'm taking that or sculpt self (plus a clever plan for NI XP) for my third feat.

[Randomthom]

With a non-elite array it is hard to make a powerful concept work particularly well. A 13 can be a 20 by level 20 (including the +2 ability score from human) but the remaining stats mean that any class that relies on more than one attribute is inherently weaker...

Full spellcaster classes seem the logical choices, particularly those with access to true polymorph. Those reliant on charisma would probably be strongest though since it is probably the most useful stat to get by in the modern world although the skill points from a high int build could also be valuable.

I'm swaying between oracle and wizard. I guess it also depends on how accessible spells are. If we consider our existing world to be non-magical in nature then wizard is severely stymied by the lack of spells available whereas a spontaneous caster who 'learns' spells as they level doesn't need someone to teach them. If we consider our world one where magic has merely gone 'underground' (think like in Buffy the Vampire Slayer) then the wizard is more feasible.

The oracle with the time mystery stops aging at level 20.

[Arael666]

Stats

STR-11
DEX-9
CON-12
INT-13
WIS-10
CHA-8

Feats: Spell Focus (conjuration), Heighten Spell

Assuming dragon is available, eidetic spellcaster, if not Raven familiar just because it would be fun to have an inteligent talking pet.

If early entry trics are available, metamagic school focus at level 3 so I can get into rainbow servant at year 4, if not, enter it by normal at lvl 6. In year 3 travel to the Temple of the Feathered Serpent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_the_Feathered_Serpent,_Teotihuacan) so I can qualify to Rainbow Servant (I'll travel there even if I don't need to in order to qualify for the prestige class :smallwink:). Of course I'm assuming it's RAW full casting raibow servant, otherwize it's incantatrix.

I would lay low for pretty much 10 or more years, just enjoying an easyer life with magic, things will be much more enjoyable with spells like unseen servant, Prestidigitation, Servant Horde. In my line of work (I'm a lawyer btw) things would get interesting, Charm Person and Weildskill would pretty much solve all of small but really annoying problems (unmannerly, bitter with life and downright incompetent public agents mostly). If the other lawyers are unnethical, dishonest or are taking advantage of the corrupt system in my country (yeah, it's a serious problem here :smallfurious:), spells like Detect Thoughts, Mindless Rage and Phantasmal Assailants would solve that pretty much all the time as things can go south pretty fast if you know what the other part is thinking, he attacks you in the middle of the hearing or he just can't show up cause he suddenly is dumber than a dog.

Gambling is illegal in my country, but I think I would seriously consider travelling to vegas a few times and use cheat spell.

Once people started showing around the globe with similar powers as mine, I would lay even lower and wait to see how the world would react to them. Depending on the reaction I would start my own demiplane as similar as I can to earth, and keep it there "just in case".

Craft contingent spell at year 12.

I know people avoid this topic here, but I'm a guy, 29 years old, single, pretty much gave up on dating since all women I've met so far were either interested in my wealth or were'nt faithfull (I'm not saying all women are like that, far from it, I just haven't found the right girl and just and am too tired to continue looking for her), so you guys pretty much catch my drift. Spell's like Simulacrum would solve all my loneliness, and if plannar ally are on the table, I would really like to know what erynies and succubus(buses?) have to ofer.

I don't think I would fight for world domination with other playgrounders, I don't have system mastery or will to do that (just imagine if Tippy posts in this thread, the horror) if things get really nasty I would just run away to my own "noa's arc" demiplane and keep expanding it. Live a long good life untill I'm too bored and just stop casting PaO to keep myself young and die of old age.

[Arael666]

If we consider our existing world to be non-magical in nature then wizard is severely stymied by the lack of spells available whereas a spontaneous caster who 'learns' spells as they level doesn't need someone to teach them. If we consider our world one where magic has merely gone 'underground' (think like in Buffy the Vampire Slayer) then the wizard is more feasible.

Already covered


Magic and supernatural abilities will function just fine, although getting hold of material components for any spells you cast may prove more difficult without spell component pouches readily available at the local magic supply shop.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Already covered

Cleric seems the best bet to me then, particularly if one can get the spell domain (though that does beg the question of what domains YHWH, for example, has).

[Ashtagon]

Can I be a cleric of my deeply held conviction that the world should be run for the mutual benefit of all mankind? I'd rather not get real world religion involved.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Can I be a cleric of my deeply held conviction that the world should be run for the mutual benefit of all mankind? I'd rather not get real world religion involved.

Since you can be a cleric of a `cause`, presumably. But that means you don't get to win theology forever.

[martixy]

Monk 20. Actually very good features IRL.
Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Diamond Body, Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Empty Body would be all amazing to have.
Stop aging at 40(or at least stop deteriorating). Never worry about bodily health at all. Let people figure out the cure to cancer from my body. Probably get to live to 150(if by that time immortality hasn't yet been invented). See the world, be able to talk to everyone(including dead languages).
Yes please.

[Gnaeus]

The way these things are set up, the slots machine could have a 0% chance to pay out on the next 10 runs. You reroll that 0%, and... It still doesn't pay out. But cheat does allow a will save to notice something fishy... And requires verbal, somatic, and focus components. So you're really noticed.

Just like all the miracle healers, and everyone else using their powers obviously.

And when someone investigates, be it government, or mafia, or whoever... And asks questions, and notices the pattern that only people who have visited this board are affected... and they start backtracking IPs... Yeah, I'm not really expecting any of us to reach level 2.

Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, tell me more about that technologist feat. I'm curious whether I'm taking that or sculpt self (plus a clever plan for NI XP) for my third feat.

Why would anyone be disappeared by the mafia or the government for going to a hospital and providing healing? I can see them making an offer, certainly DARPA would pay through the nose. But arresting you for touching injured people? Doubt it.

Slots and cheat are the hard way to cheat I think. I'd rather use Evil Eye combined with sports betting or other person to person gambling. If a boxer says he suddenly got scared in round 5 and his opponent started beating the snot out of him, how is anyone going to blame the guy in the 2nd row who just sat there? The down side is that a -2 AC and to hit for 45ish seconds isn't going to guarantee a win. But it should shift odds enough that one could steadily make money on any event that wasn't already rigged.

[dascarletm]

Monk 20. Actually very good features IRL.
Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Diamond Body, Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Empty Body would be all amazing to have.
Stop aging at 40(or at least stop deteriorating). Never worry about bodily health at all. Let people figure out the cure to cancer from my body. Probably get to live to 150(if by that time immortality hasn't yet been invented). See the world, be able to talk to everyone(including dead languages).
Yes please.

It really depends on what you want to do. If you just want to live your life in peace Monk is very good at this. Take VoP. Never need to eat again. Just wander the world forever (assuming you took wedded to history).

[Apricot]

So maybe I'm wrong in thinking this, but this appears to be a game of "apply the overpowered template to fix your awful stats." There are alternatives, but I think this is the fastest way to get some real neat stuff done. Also, I assume that being a spellcaster is the "obvious" choice: everything else fails to benefit you unless you skirt the law in some especially dangerous ways.

So, the useful templates (read: non-inherited) are basically reduced to:
1. The ones granted by deities
2. The undead ones
3. Dragon Disciple

1 requires that there be deities that will help you, 2 has all sorts of fun ups and downs, and 3 eats up a ton of class levels (while the other templates, following this challenge's RAW, give you level adjustment but don't interfere with you gaining that sweet 20 in class levels). 1 is almost always the best, but has a pretty harsh metaphysical restriction behind it, so I won't discuss it. 2 and 3 have some neat things you can do with them, though.

So for 2, the main question is: do you want to be an abomination? If no, then there's no point exploring further. If you don't mind, then the choice essentially comes down to lich or vampire. Lich is, fortunately, very easy to create: all you need is CL 11+ and the Create Wondrous Item feat, both of which you want anyway. Disguise Self or Alter Self ought to handle most of the, uh, integration issues, and if you're that high of a caster level, they shouldn't be a massive issue. As a result of becoming a lich, if you devote all of your attribute points to primary casting, you'll be able to cast level 9 spells! Enjoy your Wishes and Gates and Ice Assassins. Vampire is a little more tricky: the only way I know of to outright create a vampire is to use an epic-level spell. This is problematic. So you could research the process, to be sure, but there's no guarantee of success.

3 is fun and quirky. The obvious restriction of it (apart from some minute portion of dragon blood, which is honestly irrelevant) is that it takes away up to 10 class levels. This means that you're basically never going to be casting 9th-level spells with it, which sucks. All the same, you can use it to do some neat stuff, and if for whatever reason you're denied attribute point upgrades, you can still get 5th-level spells thanks to the Int/Cha upgrades. Also, +8 Str gets you instant Olympic gold medals! Neato! Probably the best build here is getting a single Sorcerer level, heading up to 8th-level DD, and taking the other 11 levels in Wizard for access to the +2 Int and 6th-level spells. Not too bad.

If I had to choose, I'd probably go for Lich followed by using Wishes to turn me into a Half-Celestial or something. Oh, and if that doesn't work out, just Wiz20 with Eschew Materials to escape boring bookkeeping and CWI to fix everything that's wrong with me. Guess Wiz20 is the solution to everything after all. I like the Monk20 idea too, though: probably the best way of being a human (or "human") and still getting tons of benefits.

[johnbragg]

I'm clearly bad at this, since I ruled out anythng that breaks physics too much.

But may I raise a practical question? Where are all the Wizards and related prepared arcane casters getting their spells and spellbooks? Yes RAW says you get a handful of spells automatically when you begin at 1st level and when you level up, But that's only if you take that RAW interpretation, which is arguably not applicable IRL where there are no previously existing wizards and spell books to copy from.

So a 20th level Wizard has a minimum of 43 + Int bonus spells, vs 34 spells for a Sorcerer 20, assuming that RAW about automatically learning new spells applies. And you can plan exploits to break this cap (starting with planar binding), but each of those methods has its own risks. You can also plan to research additional spells, with uncertain results given the limited availablity of research materials IRL vs D&Dverse.

Am I still over-estimating the difficulties of trying to operate as a 3X character IRL? Or are people underestimating the value of spontaneous casters (Sorcerers, Bards) automatically just knowing their spells?

[thethird]

I would go with psionic artificer 18, chameleon 2, because there will be plenty of downtime and psionic artificer is always better than artificer. Since wedded to history seems to be acceptable always take chameleon crafting :P

I would eventually teleport myself back in time probably just for kicks though. Truenaming, incarnum, and maneuvers seems like a good feat dump.

[Amphetryon]

I'm clearly bad at this, since I ruled out anythng that breaks physics too much.

But may I raise a practical question? Where are all the Wizards and related prepared arcane casters getting their spells and spellbooks? Yes RAW says you get a handful of spells automatically when you begin at 1st level and when you level up, But that's only if you take that RAW interpretation, which is arguably not applicable IRL where there are no previously existing wizards and spell books to copy from.

So a 20th level Wizard has a minimum of 43 + Int bonus spells, vs 34 spells for a Sorcerer 20, assuming that RAW about automatically learning new spells applies. And you can plan exploits to break this cap (starting with planar binding), but each of those methods has its own risks. You can also plan to research additional spells, with uncertain results given the limited availablity of research materials IRL vs D&Dverse.

Am I still over-estimating the difficulties of trying to operate as a 3X character IRL? Or are people underestimating the value of spontaneous casters (Sorcerers, Bards) automatically just knowing their spells?

Either the prepared Casters are getting their Spells from the same source from which the spontaneous (and list) Casters are getting their new Spells at level-up, or you're arbitrarily employing a form of the Guy at the Gym fallacy (not linking to TVTropes; you're welcome) to hinder only some Casters on grounds approximating 'realism.'

[johnbragg]

Either the prepared Casters are getting their Spells from the same source from which the spontaneous (and list) Casters are getting their new Spells at level-up, or you're arbitrarily employing a form of the Guy at the Gym fallacy (not linking to TVTropes; you're welcome) to hinder only some Casters on grounds approximating 'realism.'

Guy-at-the-Gym fallacy is only a fallacy in a fantasy world which runs on fantasy-physics. OP said IRL, and clearly I'm having trouble understanding what everyone else means by IRL, but I do my best.

Normally, Wizard is a good bet because you have the ability to obtain and scribe practically any spell in an allowed book for a reasonable cost by traveling to a mid-size town and buying a scroll of the spell, or paying to copy from a spellbook. Roughly as difficult as buying a refrigerator for us--not a trivial undertaking, but not impossible.

But, transported to the real-life, no-magic to low-magic Earth, Wizards are severely handicapped because magic mart is shut down. There are no scrolls or spellbooks of lesser planar binding or alter self or fireball or Bigby's tenacles of forced intrusion to be had for love or money or sexual favors. So the Wizard is, as far as I can tell, limited at best to the spellbook that he or she can create. I'll accept that RAW applies and you get your automatic spells, because if sorcerors "just know" how to cast charm person, I suppose wizards can "just know" how to write out a charm person scroll.

But the big advantage of Wizard over Sorceror is that Wizards have access to a ton of spells, while Sorcerers are limited to a handful. Aren't people ignoring that lack of magic-mart closes that gap significantly?

Setting aside what you can add to your spell book through dedicated research, if you only have what RAW gives you (2*CL+1+INT)
1st level Wizard has 4 (1 for INT 13). 1st level Sorcerer has 2.
5th level Wizard has 13 (2 for INT 14). 5th level Sorcerer has 6.
10th level Wizard has 23 (2 for INT 15). 10th level Sorcerer has 15.
15th level Wizard has 34. (3 for INT 16). 15th level Sorcerer has 27.
20th level Wizard has 44 (3 for INT 17). 20th level Sorcerer has 34.
(Simply comparing straight-out-of-the-box before any optimizing at all. Also ignoring the fact that without work, high level Wiz and Sor can't cast their highest level spells).


Yes the Wizard still has more, but it's a factor of 2:1 or less. That's a big step down from having ALL TEH SPELLZ.

On the other hand, being a prepared caster vs spontaneous is less of a disadvantage, as you're not likely to suddenly NEED to cast whatever.

[Barstro]

Normally, Wizard is a good bet because you have the ability to obtain and scribe practically any spell in an allowed book for a reasonable cost by traveling to a mid-size town and buying a scroll of the spell, or paying to copy from a spellbook. Roughly as difficult as buying a refrigerator for us--not a trivial undertaking, but not impossible.

It's possible, depending on how many people get this treatment, for Wizards to plan their leveling, take different spells, and then trade. One concern I have is where the magic ink comes from (but I assume it can be crafted) and the likelihood of spellbooks being lost/stolen/destroyed. Unless/until things become more common, loss of a large book before protection spells exist could be common.

That's part of my preference for Pathfinder Witch. Even if I didn't want to kill my familiar to get a new one with new spells (allowed under RAW), I still would not be hurt by the loss of my "spellbook", since I can just summon another one and get all my spells back.

[martixy]

I would go with psionic artificer 18, chameleon 2, because there will be plenty of downtime and psionic artificer is always better than artificer. Since wedded to history seems to be acceptable always take chameleon crafting :P

I would eventually teleport myself back in time probably just for kicks though. Truenaming, incarnum, and maneuvers seems like a good feat dump.

I kinda assume the universe has to be a bit more... less handwavey in this case. Where AT LEAST causality is sacred.

[Segev]

Where are all the Wizards and related prepared arcane casters getting their spells and spellbooks? Yes RAW says you get a handful of spells automatically when you begin at 1st level and when you level up, But that's only if you take that RAW interpretation, which is arguably not applicable IRL where there are no previously existing wizards and spell books to copy from.

First off, the spells you get in your spellbook "for free at level up" are assumed to be there because you've been researching and developing stuff in your spare time, and you just kind-of picked up a couple new tricks.

However, I expressly choose to go PF Wizard, because the PF rules for creating magic items allow you to create magic items for which you do not even have the spell, if you can make a sufficiently good Spellcraft DC. Since I will have a maxed-out Spellcraft, I will be able to scribe scrolls of whatever spells I might want, and I can then copy from the scroll into my spellbook. I do this for any spells that I want that I could theoretically cast if only they were in my spellbook.

[johnbragg]

First off, the spells you get in your spellbook "for free at level up" are assumed to be there because you've been researching and developing stuff in your spare time, and you just kind-of picked up a couple new tricks.

However, I expressly choose to go PF Wizard, because the PF rules for creating magic items allow you to create magic items for which you do not even have the spell, if you can make a sufficiently good Spellcraft DC. Since I will have a maxed-out Spellcraft, I will be able to scribe scrolls of whatever spells I might want, and I can then copy from the scroll into my spellbook. I do this for any spells that I want that I could theoretically cast if only they were in my spellbook.

And Segev wins the prize. PF Wizard can scribe scrolls to get ALL TEH SPELLZ, restoring the prepared-spontaneous gap.

[Telonius]

Cleric 20. It gets me access to the spells I want most, for both myself and my family (Regeneration or Remove Blindness/Deafness; Healing spells; Remove Disease; Create Food and Water; Endure Elements; Make Whole; Guidance of the Avatar; Raise Dead & Co. if necessary). After level 20, I start taking Great Wisdom (from Epic) so I can cast all of my spells, Extended Life Span (also Epic) so my aging (more or less) stops, and Great Charisma, because hey, why not.

EDIT: Cloistered Cleric, with Trickery, Knowledge, and Travel domains (if limited to core); Commerce domain instead of Travel (if not).

[johnbragg]

See, how often do we answer a build question with "Talk to your DM"?

Here, obviously, you can't talk to the DM before character creation. So I'm inclined to avoid choices with heavy downside risks. "How badly could a DM screw this character class option without straying too far from RAW?" Cleric strikes me as one that an unsympathetic DM could make your life fairly uncomfortable with. ("Doin' good ain't got no end.")

[Gnaeus]

And Segev wins the prize. PF Wizard can scribe scrolls to get ALL TEH SPELLZ, restoring the prepared-spontaneous gap.
Prize is revoked. Scrolls are spell completion items, which is a specific exception to the PF rule which allows you to ignore prerequisites.

[Rezialn]

I'm gonna get that first wizard level at age 30.

[dhasenan]

2) The economy can be effected by our choices
a) The aforementioned "salt trick" will not produce unlimited wealth; it will make salt cost even less than it does now.

The salt trick works like this:

I craft a magic item. The rules say I need to spend 1,000gp on the creation of the item, presumably as arbitrary, unspecified material costs.

I can incorporate a hundred pounds of gold, which, at today's prices, is around $16,000 per pound. A tad expensive.

Alternatively, I can use salt instead of gold. A pound of salt is 5gp in D&D terms. So whenever salt in real life is worth less than $8,000 per pound, it's cheaper for me to expend salt to create magic items. Current prices are below a dollar per pound. (With many people manufacturing magic items, prices might increase somewhat, but not so low as to make it cheaper to use gold.)

[Blackhawk748]

The salt trick works like this:

I craft a magic item. The rules say I need to spend 1,000gp on the creation of the item, presumably as arbitrary, unspecified material costs.

I can incorporate a hundred pounds of gold, which, at today's prices, is around $16,000 per pound. A tad expensive.

Alternatively, I can use salt instead of gold. A pound of salt is 5gp in D&D terms. So whenever salt in real life is worth less than $8,000 per pound, it's cheaper for me to expend salt to create magic items. Current prices are below a dollar per pound. (With many people manufacturing magic items, prices might increase somewhat, but not so low as to make it cheaper to use gold.)

Well that neatly solves my expense issue, as i was gonna make several slotless magic items. They where gonna be tatoos.

[JBPuffin]

The salt trick works like this:

I craft a magic item. The rules say I need to spend 1,000gp on the creation of the item, presumably as arbitrary, unspecified material costs.

I can incorporate a hundred pounds of gold, which, at today's prices, is around $16,000 per pound. A tad expensive.

Alternatively, I can use salt instead of gold. A pound of salt is 5gp in D&D terms. So whenever salt in real life is worth less than $8,000 per pound, it's cheaper for me to expend salt to create magic items. Current prices are below a dollar per pound. (With many people manufacturing magic items, prices might increase somewhat, but not so low as to make it cheaper to use gold.)

Harry Potter and the Natural 20 (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Natural-20) actually highlighted this abuse-liable trick. Suffice to say, their 3.5 wizard was a hardcore rules lawyer :smalltongue:.

[Amphetryon]

See, how often do we answer a build question with "Talk to your DM"?

Here, obviously, you can't talk to the DM before character creation. So I'm inclined to avoid choices with heavy downside risks. "How badly could a DM screw this character class option without straying too far from RAW?" Cleric strikes me as one that an unsympathetic DM could make your life fairly uncomfortable with. ("Doin' good ain't got no end.")

Where is the RAW for how a Sorcerer gains spells IRL? Or a Warlock? Or how a Familiar is acquired, granting whichever benefit it is supposed to? How would Evasion work IRL against an explosion in a real 5x5 room? Otherwise, you're in 'Talk to your DM' territory.

The whole exercise can be dismissed by 'Talk to your DM' territory issues. I sincerely doubt that was the OP's point.

[Troacctid]

Where is the RAW for how a Sorcerer gains spells IRL? Or a Warlock?

According to the standard rules, sorcerers and bards don’t need to study books to get their spells but just automatically gain new spells when they gain levels.
(Dungeon Master's Guide p198)


Or how a Familiar is acquired, granting whichever benefit it is supposed to?
With a ritual that takes 24 hours and requires 100 gp's worth of materials (Player's Handbook p54), or 200 gp per Wizard level in PF.

[GreyBlack]

You can take any class or combination of classes, 3.5 or PF, up to a maximum of level 20 in the year 2036. After that, you gain a bonus feat every year instead.

Since you are an ordinary person, not a protagonist, assume your ability scores use the nonelite array (13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8).

JUDGE! Per the rules on intelligence, you are allowed to begin play with additional languages based on your intelligence modifier. As I begin play with 3 languages IRL (English, French, and Spanish) and have learned two additional languages over time (ASL and Japanese) I formally request that I begin play using the Elite Array to most accurately represent my build! Everything cool? Alright. So, here goes.

I begin play as a Monk (black belt Oyama style karate) but I've drifted from the style sufficiently to call myself an ex-monk. As such, I would argue that I'd take the Kung Fu Genius feat to compliment my physical abilities.

However, I am a man of letters and excitement, going for my masters in Emergency Management with my EMT and security guard license. As such, I would grab a class that most aptly allows me to take advantage of my abilities. So, I'm torn but would likely go with Magus for my secondary class: still combat oriented, but very much a man of intellect seeking to blend the two.

In all, it would likely result in my build being Monk (unchained) 1 (with Kung Fu Genius feat)/Magus 19. Questions?

[Troacctid]

JUDGE! Per the rules on intelligence, you are allowed to begin play with additional languages based on your intelligence modifier. As I begin play with 3 languages IRL (English, French, and Spanish) and have learned two additional languages over time (ASL and Japanese) I formally request that I begin play using the Elite Array to most accurately represent my build!

You don't have a "character sheet" before this. All abilities you gain from class levels are in addition to what you can already do--any existing abilities you have don't need to be included.

Anyway, by RAW, regional languages don't count as bonus languages.

[Apricot]

While you're here, what are the rules on planar deals? Are the inner/outer planes around as one would expect? Deities also up to their usual shenanigans? 'cause if they're all in place a la D&D then I think the world instantly gets destroyed by whichever genius decides to summon Pazuzu.

[Necroticplague]

LA 1 (Divine Minion-Nephthys)/Monk1/MoMF10/warshaper4/Ghost Template Class 4.
Disregard meh stats, don't need any. Ability to turn into almost anything provides solutions to problems. Ghost gives me immortality, and another handy laundry list of traits. I'm probably not exactly able to qualify for Exalted Wild Shape, so I'd lose out on Blink Dog form, sad to say.

[Svata]

Wizard 3/Master Specialist 7/IOTSV 7/Master Specialist +3.

Obviously I will be learning all of the Attribute + spells, and taking the Craft Wondrous items feat.

[Troacctid]

While you're here, what are the rules on planar deals? Are the inner/outer planes around as one would expect? Deities also up to their usual shenanigans? 'cause if they're all in place a la D&D then I think the world instantly gets destroyed by whichever genius decides to summon Pazuzu.

You won't have that information until you experiment for yourself--which is probably difficult at low levels.

[Segev]

Prize is revoked. Scrolls are spell completion items, which is a specific exception to the PF rule which allows you to ignore prerequisites.

Well, that IS disappointing. I guess I'll just have to use the "spell research" rules rather extensively, then. Though at third level, I'll still be able to make Wondrous Items that do a lot of it. Just not quite as efficiently in terms of CL.

[Silva Stormrage]

You can make 1000GP of items per day. Not nothing, but not really "cranking out".


Dedicated wrights exist :smalltongue:

[dhasenan]

My goal:

Everyone has their own stronghold, if they want. Most people live in modest floating mansions anchored in clusters. If you decide you don't like what's happening with the neighborhood, you simply fly your mansion off to another area. If you want a vacation, you fly away.

Everyone has their own demiplane, if they want. People tend to stay together, but some people have goals that require them to have their own space.

Death happens only to those who explicitly want it and seek it out. Illness likewise. Injuries heal quickly. Nobody gets maimed. Nobody gets sick. Starvation is gone, unless you specifically decide to starve yourself.

You can have a perfectly comfortable life for yourself if you don't have a job.

Household tasks are accomplished with Unseen Servant. Larger tasks use undead as a source of labor.

Getting there requires copious magic items. A ring of polymorph any object for everyone -- it's the solution to aging, hunger, clothing needs, any sort of mundane item. A true resurrection item for every few hundred people, because accidents happen. Healing items.

I would have to go full-on artificer. A cleric can be useful in person, a wizard likewise, but if you want to have a larger impact, it has to extend beyond yourself. That means producing magic items quickly and distributing them far and wide.

Or, y'know, Wizard 3 / Rainbow Servant 7 / Mystic Theurge 10 sort of deal. Get Wish as soon as possible and use that to establish a lesser utopia.

[azaph]

So, build:
13 int, 12 cha, 11 dex, 10 con, 9 str, 8 wis. And after I'd finished crying at the various stuff I no longer had the stats for, classes:
Archivist 3/Wizard (Psychic mage) 3/Mystic Theurge (PF) 10.
I'd probably start with a level of archivist, for healing, not sure what order I'd go in for the first six levels. Not sure about limited schools, either, evocation definitely, and something else. If I can find early entry cheats for Theurge that work, I'm absolutely going to, but I'm assumming not. That leaves me with 7th level casting in arcane and divine, and 7th level powers, at 16th level. Which seems solid.
Now, I have a few options for what works for the next three levels:
Mystic theurge (3.5) 3 - yeah, trying to argue that since we can take classes from PF and 3.5 I can take both versions of MT is PROBABLY not gonna work, but I can try. Leaves me with 8th/8th/8th at 19th level.
Cerebremancer 2/Archivist 1 - using CM to cheat double speed progression is cheap as hell, and might not work. I don't care, I'm trying it anyway. Leaves me with 9th/9th/7th at 19th level.
Full progression arcane casting prestige class 3 - Not sure which one, whatt matters is I'm on 8th/8th/7th at 19.
By this point, I plan to be undead.
And finally for 20th level: Tainted scholar 1. Because why would I ever not? Leaves me at either 9th/9th/8th or 9th/9th/7th casting. I can in theory cast almost every spell in the game, plus a good portion of the psionics.
Of course, I won't know very many spells. I don't get any for PrCs. I end up with 14, I think, none above second level. I can make up some of that with the extra spell feat, but I'm still missing rather a lot of the flexibility I'm building for. So that might be a problem, right? 12 Cha only goes so far.
Allow me to introduce you to the latest in spellcasting technology, the next iteration of the spellbook: The E-spellbook!
Yes, a digital spellbook! Not only that, an online, crowdsourced spellbook![/salesperson voice]
It works like this: The names of the spells in the E-spellbook are listed online. If you have a spell that isn't in there, you can donate a copy of that spell. And since it's a digital book, we can let people download from it, to let them copy parts into their own spellbooks. The number of spells you could download would be limited - one spell level costs one credit, sending a new spell gets you ten times the number of spell levels, other stuff can be worked out later. I'm budgeting at least three uses of wish for this - one for making a digital spellbook a possibility, one to create a new ritual for letting people send me scrolls, one to deal with other problems. Over time, I should be able to create a huge library of spells. And being in charge means obviously I have access to the whole thing.
But that might not work. So I have a backup. Spellazon! The online spell marketplace! [/salesperson voice]
Similar system, create a universally available ritual for sending written spells to Spellazon, for which people are paid in credits. People can then buy spells we have copies of (or wait until I write it), having set up a second ritual for transporting the spells to a listed adress (two wishes)
Obviously, this is kind of going to leave me scribing all day, and copying from a scroll consumes it, so that provides a limit.
Unless, of course, what we send people isn't scrolls. We send people spellbooks, with one spell each in them. Then they get half the cost back, if they send our spellbooks back to us. Spellbooks are pretty cheap, and reusable. As the operation grows, I can pay other wizards to make them.
The point is, my plan is to work on being at the centre of people's trading of spells with each other, and use that, suplemented by my own research, to build up my library. The ritual delivery system means noone needs to know who I am, since I'll be pretty vulnerable for a while (like, only for about two, three decades). A demiplane should be pretty easy to come by, though, since the spells for making them are probably gonna be common as dirt. Everyone is gonna take wish, so that should be available, too.
What I'd actually DO with all that spellcasting, I'm not sure. There are a lot of options, and it depends a lot on how everyone else acts. The way I'm doing this means I'll hit my peak a while after most people, so I'll be reacting to what's happened with them.

[Strigon]

First off, I'd enjoy the massive boost having the standard array would give me - no sarcasm, the difference would be ridiculous.

I don't have much system mastery, so this might be a bit boring, but I'm going with (most likely) Wizard 20. Mostly because I know that can be impressive enough for nearly all purposes.
I'd take Divination and ban Evocation - I won't need fireballs, after all, since if I ever do get into a political game the knowledge of what's going to happen is far more important than the ability to blow things up. Besides, self-defense isn't going to be an issue, since in ~4-6 years I'll be beyond the reach of any single organism found on Earth, and a few years later I could survive or have knowledge of any military actions against me (not that I plan on doing anything overt enough to warrant that, but you never know!).

I'd probably go with 13 Int, 12 Wis, 11 Cha, 10 Con, 9 Dex, 8 Str.

Obviously every level that I gained stats I'd pump into Int.

Once I realized this was happening, I'd use my Int and Wis boosting spells to optimize my build for the future, write it down, and follow the plan, but as it stands:

Feats: first, eschew materials, then all the feats that remove components of spells (verbal, somatic and the like).

Skills: mostly diplomacy and sense motive; use my time making friends and allies of important people, and also make money. I'd also put points into Appraise, and use Appraising Touch to look for high-valued, but low-priced items - yard sales, antiquing, etc.
Basically, I'd be having fun and setting the stage for whatever else I might want to do in the future. I'd also get as much of a bonus as possible, and write a program that would watch for signs of people gaining powers in the same way I do. I wouldn't do anything to them (you, I suppose), but I'd definitely keep tabs on as many as I could, in typical paranoid wizard fashion.

The only interference I might have with the world at large would be removed from myself; things like touch of idiocy on people I don't want to succeed just before they make a major decision, or begin an interview.

[Segev]

Careful with touch of idiocy. It could make them seem stoned, drunk, or otherwise drugged, making your tampering obvious.

[Strigon]

Careful with touch of idiocy. It could make them seem stoned, drunk, or otherwise drugged, making your tampering obvious.

Perhaps; it might also ruin their public opinion even more that way.

I would only ever use it under Greater Invisibility, of course; I don't plan on running up to a politician right before a major debate!

In any case, even if they thought they had been drugged, it's possible they'd try to identify the substance - when it comes back negative, it won't look good for them.

[Gnaeus]

Actual Build:
Human Witch (Beast Bonded) 1-20, Agility Patron
Stats Str7, Dex 8, Con 9, Wis 12, Int 14, Cha 13
Skills at all levels include maxing spellcraft, perception, stealth, craft alchemy and Linguistics Favored class will give skill points for Diplomacy 1-2, then spells, since I am human.
L1: Cat Familiar, Valet archetype
Feat: Evolved Familiar (Racial skill bonus Spellcraft)
Feat: Extra Hex (Cauldron)
Hex: Healing
Spells include: Detect Magic, Daze, Read Magic, Unseen Servant, Cure light wounds, Summon Monster 1
(Find a place where I can use healing to make money. Pet keeps things clean, and crafts potions of healing to make even more money, I can already beat most humans in a fight if I need)
L2: Evil Eye hex (I can now cheat at gambling if I want)
New spells: Jump, Diagnose Disease, Comprehend Languages
(Still chilling at some hospital, with invisible servant while familiar makes potions)
L3: Craft Wondrous items
New Spells:Alter Self, Merge With Familiar, Air Bubble
(no more worries about pet assassins, Pet immediately stops making potions, moves on to wondrous items, beginning with my headband of Int and Belt of Con.)
L4: No new hex, but Familiar can now spy for me if I want. My int jumps to 15 (17 or 19 with items)
New Spells: False life, Percieve cues, Cats Grace, Mage Armor
(nothing new but familiar and I both now much harder to kill, and the sense motive boost will be nice for social situations)
L5: Summon Good Monsters (lyrakiens in particular are helpful, and have +8 ranks in a knowledge if I ever need to know something)
Spells: Remove Disease (virtually guaranteeing a long and pleasant life for myself and my loved ones), Summon Monster 3, Summon Monster 2
L6: Soothsayer hex (allows me to cheat at gambling without even being in the building)
Spells: Anthropomorphic Animals (I can make catgirls) Locate Object (I CAN'T lose my keys) Haste (you summoned monsters fight really well while I run away), companion life link
L7: Leadership (some nice loyal retainers)
Spells Summon Monster 4 (Pixies can cast permanent illusion, as well as detect thoughts and dispel magic) Mirror Transport (for my hidden palace), Remove Blindness (for when the macular degeneration hits me)
L8: Flight hex (Int 16+headband, skills now include know planes and arcana in the band, diplomacy with ranks. The cat's Int headband now holds acrobatics and sense motive).
Spells: 3 fold aspect (I can be young if I want), Symbol of healing (Someday I'm gonna get paid a fortune for these), Freedom of Movement (good escape spell), Tongues, I can also turn into a cat or tiger.
L9: Spell Focus Conjuration
Summon Monster 5 (Bralani rule combat, Djinni can cast Wind Walk or create wine, Vulpinals have very high knowledges), Dominate Person (Dont plan to use it, but good if needed), Dimension Door (just in case)
L10: Twin Soul basically makes me unkillable and immortal
Reincarnate (for friends, or lets me remake my own body after dying), Telepathic Bond, Polymorph, divination
L11 Augment Summoning
Summon monster 6 (Suggestion, charm, knock), Summon Laborers (yeah, 11 holy dead guys doing my bidding), Unseen Crew (for my yacht)
L12 Control Weather hex (how much would Disney pay for the park to always be sunny? Or my favorite movie producer for his next on location shoot) (Int 17+headband, which is totally +6 by now, I add fly, cat has a useful knowledge, maybe local)
Mass Cats Grace (yay?), Mass Suggestion, Subconscious Agenda, Overland flight
L13 Evolved Summon Monster (mostly so that anything I summon can have a +8 racial to whatever skill I need)
Summon Monster 7 (Shedu, Movanic Deva? yes please!), Fairy Ring retreat, Guards and Wards
L14 Witch's Bounty (kinda lame, but an easy moneymaker or gift to allies)
Heal, Greater Scrying, Ethereal Jaunt, Greater named bullet (for my retainers)
L15 craft Rods (for extend spell)
Summon Monster VIII, Mind Blank, regenerate
(little new here, but I can hide from other casters if needed, or summon things for longer)
L16 Vision (maybe can change future, who knows)
Clone (in case I want to reuse my own body), Demand (guiding my country in positive ways), Animal Shapes (why not?), Plane Shift
L17 Craft Contingent Spell
Foresight, Summon Monster 9, 9 lives,
L18 Summon Spirit (in case I need to have a chat with Einstein or Zelazny. Summon Gygax and get him to write games.)
Shapechange. Create Greater Demiplane, Discern Location, Teleportation Circle
(Pretty much godlike at this point. Rich, Immortal, surrounded by minions in my fairy meadow or mansion or fairy meadow in my demiplane in my mansion, protected from divinations, cat merrily rapid crafting items for me, protected from disease, with full IP rights to all the hits Freddie Mercury's ghost is writing in my basement. I just need to make sure I stay Good aligned. Shapechange tricks or a friendly wizard will be necessary for some permanencies, but otherwise golden. Once per lifetime I die, possess the cat, possess an ally for a few hours, during which time I reincarnate myself, then return to my new young body)

[LoyalPaladin]

This is going to earn me some sideways looks...

Marshal 1/Paladin of Freedom 3/Bard 7/Heartwarder 10
Str 12 (+2 Inherent), Dex 8 (+1 Inherent), Con, 10, Int 9 (+1 Inherent), Wis 11(+1 Inherent), Cha 13 (+5 Heartwarder)

I'll take a couple of diplomacy/smiting feats and able learner.

[Azoth]

Str: 10 Dex:12 Con:11 Int: 13 Wis: 9 Cha:8

Rogue 1/Wiz (Martial, Abrupt Jaunt, Spontaneous Divination)5/Unseen Seer10/Mind Bender1/Arcane Trickster3.

I am definitely snagging Item Familiar at level 3 to pump my skills up to use able levels. Invisible Spell, extend spell, persist spell, darkstalker, mindsight are all musts.

Just chill out most days and enjoy knowing that no matter what trouble I get myself into to pass the time will be hard to notice, and I will be even harder to catch. No plans for world domination or to make the world a better place. Just to live a care free life full of entertainment that the rest of the world could only hope for.

[Troacctid]

Personally, I put a pretty high value on skills. I'd lean towards Bard: either Bardic Sage in 3.5, or Duettist in PF.

[Telok]

Interesting thought experiment. Psion, probably straight through to 20.

At low level, before some of the crazies appear, Call to Mind, defense and communication powers. All three first level feats will be Psionic Talent for 8 extra pp at the start.

At mid levels Psychic Reformation retcons the feats to Psionic Body, a luck feat or two, and every other feat will be an Expanded
Knowledge. Powers will focus on divination and defenses.

High level will see Moment of Prescience and Reality Revision. Plus continuing defenses and more Expanded Knowledge.

The end game will be the psionic sandwich trick using, you know, something better than a sandwich. Obviously not all powers will be defense, utility like Fabricate and fun like Quintessence will be in there. The eight or nine Expanded Knowledges will get powers off the subclass lists. Extended life is easy to get with various powers and Call to Mind will make life easier while I practice my art. Money is solved by Fabricating art objects with rerolls for the occasional bad day. Plus anyone with a mostly reliable ability to predict some future events can make a killing on the stock market.

Hmm. Jumping through the hoops to make an at-will Augury item could well be worth it for someone who wanted to play around with day trading.

[Necroticplague]

Personally, I put a pretty high value on skills. I'd lean towards Bard: either Bardic Sage in 3.5, or Duettist in PF.

I actually thought about skills myself for mine. Decided that Dusk Giant Form should do for any miscellaneous skills, and there's always Black Pudding Splitting if I need anyone to Aid Other me.

[azaph]

I have to say, I'm surprised how few people are really munchkining this. In a game, sure, it's obnoxious, but in real life, I fail to see why you'd avoid making yourself too powerful.
Like, I'm the only person who's gone for tainted scholar. Which is infamously broken, and gets around the fact that one's highest starting stat is 13. I'd say it's the taint stuff, but given how many people are wanting to be liches anyway, I doubt that. There's been barely any ur priests, or planar sheperds, or any of the other 'oh God, why?' prcs, either. Some of them do get a lot worse in this situation, true, but a lot of them... don't.

[Soranar]

Warlock 20, no need for stats of any kind. You can create any magic item in 12 years, you get unlimited powers (and an eldritch blast is powerful enough to deal with just about any earthly problem you might face. Charm can handle anything that can comprehend speech (anyone that matters) until then.

Once you get imbue item, you can use craft contingent spell (and scribe scroll + your maxed out UMD) to get access to every spell you will ever need (arcane or divine).

With enough feats you get every crafting feat so you can create a magic item for health, eternal life, and you can create them for people you like too (unlike classes that only grant those things to you alone). And since you'll live forever anyway, you'll get access to every feat in existence anyway.

Sure an artificer would get there faster but he's lose out the warlock's innate abilities in trade for his own which I find inferior in this aspect. (DR, innate flight, teleportation, charm person, even without your toys you're a force to be reckoned with).

[Troacctid]

I have to say, I'm surprised how few people are really munchkining this. In a game, sure, it's obnoxious, but in real life, I fail to see why you'd avoid making yourself too powerful.
Like, I'm the only person who's gone for tainted scholar. Which is infamously broken, and gets around the fact that one's highest starting stat is 13. I'd say it's the taint stuff, but given how many people are wanting to be liches anyway, I doubt that. There's been barely any ur priests, or planar sheperds, or any of the other 'oh God, why?' prcs, either. Some of them do get a lot worse in this situation, true, but a lot of them... don't.

I mean, Tainted Scholar literally makes you go insane. In a game, all those nasty side effects are happening to a fictional character--you don't actually have to experience them. Would you be willing to take a 10% chance that for the rest of your life, whenever you come across a sleeping person, you will immediately attempt to murder them on the spot? That's one of the possible side effects of severe depravity, so if you want to be a Tainted Scholar, those are the dice you're rolling.

[Zetapup]

If it's gestalt, bard 20//beguiler 1/rainbow servant 10 (using early entry tricks to qualify)/geomancer 9. On the bard side, take the bardic knack acf and the jack of all trades feat for effectively 10 ranks in every skill. Nab Lyric Spell, whatever early entry feats I decide are easiest, the otherworldly feat (I believe that's the one that gives you the outsider type?), southern magician at some point, and prolly a few crafting feats. I'd try to get polymorph on my spell list as soon as possible.

It'd be more or less the same idea without gestalt, going bard 1/beguiler 1/rainbow servant 10/geomancer 8, I'd just lose bardic knack and bard spells.

Finally, polymorph into a firre as soon as possible. I'd use its unlimited bardic music to fuel lyric spell, allowing me to cast all my spontaneous arcane spells effectively at will. With geomancer, all my cleric spells up to 8th level count as arcane, and I can use southern magician on the 9th level spells. Essentially, I'd be able to cast all cleric spells, all beguiler spells, and whatever spells I pick up through feats/domains at will. Normally geomancer sucks, but since all my casting is coming from one class, I don't lose any caster levels.

If that doesn't work for whatever reason, I'd either go bard 20 with bardic knack, or warlock 20. I'm a fan of at will abilities, and warlock's imbue item would be really handy for crafting. I might grab 2 levels of chameleon in any of these builds for the floating feat.

Stats would prolly end up being Str 8 Dex 9 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 11 Cha 12 or Str 9 Dex 10 Con 8 Int 13 Wis 11 Cha 12 if I decide to go necropolitan. I'd definitely want to grab some templates/potentially bloodlines (depending on how they work), since I'd gain a level every year regardless of my ecl. Being an entomanothrope ardent spider would be nifty for the short range teleport, but the int penalty hurts. Necropolitan may not be possible, but it'd be handy to reduce the need for constitution.

[Gnaeus]

I mean, Tainted Scholar literally makes you go insane. In a game, all those nasty side effects are happening to a fictional character--you don't actually have to experience them. Would you be willing to take a 10% chance that for the rest of your life, whenever you come across a sleeping person, you will immediately attempt to murder them on the spot? That's one of the possible side effects of severe depravity, so if you want to be a Tainted Scholar, those are the dice you're rolling.

That and I'm pretty sure all those rainbow casters and clerics of the good of man and other good and neutral casters will feel the need to intervene before the mad demigod does something to destroy life on earth.

As Granny Weatherwax says, witches watch each other carefully for signs of cackling.

[azaph]

I mean, Tainted Scholar literally makes you go insane. In a game, all those nasty side effects are happening to a fictional character--you don't actually have to experience them. Would you be willing to take a 10% chance that for the rest of your life, whenever you come across a sleeping person, you will immediately attempt to murder them on the spot? That's one of the possible side effects of severe depravity, so if you want to be a Tainted Scholar, those are the dice you're rolling.

Which is why I mentioned liches? Undead don't get the insanity thing. Even if you're using the rule that they get fixed levels of taint (which is silly, because it means that becoming an unholy abomination of dead flesh and evil energy can make you less tainted), you can just use the ritual of alignment instead for the same effect (helm of opposite alignment and a timed dispel should help if you don't want to be evil, and it shouldn't be too hard to make a 7th level evil cleric).


That and I'm pretty sure all those rainbow casters and clerics of the good of man and other good and neutral casters will feel the need to intervene before the mad demigod does something to destroy life on earth.

Tch, people are so JUDGEMENTAL about mad demigods. I mean, just because I have an uncontrollable urge to kill, you assume I'm a bad person. SO unfair :smallsigh:.

[johnbragg]

I have to say, I'm surprised how few people are really munchkining this. In a game, sure, it's obnoxious, but in real life, I fail to see why you'd avoid making yourself too powerful.
Like, I'm the only person who's gone for tainted scholar. Which is infamously broken, and gets around the fact that one's highest starting stat is 13. I'd say it's the taint stuff, but given how many people are wanting to be liches anyway, I doubt that. There's been barely any ur priests, or planar sheperds, or any of the other 'oh God, why?' prcs, either. Some of them do get a lot worse in this situation, true, but a lot of them... don't.

Well, in a normal game, if the DM is irked enough to say "Rocks fall, everyone dies." you just roll up a new character, and/or have a spirited debate about the relative merits of Stormwind and system mastery, with or without shouting and throwing objects.

In this thought exercise, the DM declaring "rocks fall, you die" is a little more....personal.

Or maybe that's just me.

[azaph]

Well, in a normal game, if the DM is irked enough to say "Rocks fall, everyone dies." you just roll up a new character, and/or have a spirited debate about the relative merits of Stormwind and system mastery, with or without shouting and throwing objects.

In this thought exercise, the DM declaring "rocks fall, you die" is a little more....personal.

Or maybe that's just me.

The real world has a DM?

[Strigon]

The real world has a DM?

In the D&D world, some things are - by RAW - up to the DM's discretion.
If we're bringing the D&D world here, there's a chance that there would have to be a DM to make those judgement calls.

I don't think it's so much that anyone genuinely believes a DM would kill you, as there's a chance it could possibly happen - and why take that chance when even a half-decent optimized build would let you do whatever you want on this world?

[ben-zayb]

If it's gestalt, bard 20//beguiler 1/rainbow servant 10 (using early entry tricks to qualify)/geomancer 9. On the bard side, take the bardic knack acf and the jack of all trades feat for effectively 10 ranks in every skill. Nab Lyric Spell, whatever early entry feats I decide are easiest, the otherworldly feat (I believe that's the one that gives you the outsider type?), southern magician at some point, and prolly a few crafting feats. I'd try to get polymorph on my spell list as soon as possible.

It'd be more or less the same idea without gestalt, going bard 1/beguiler 1/rainbow servant 10/geomancer 8, I'd just lose bardic knack and bard spells.

Finally, polymorph into a firre as soon as possible. I'd use its unlimited bardic music to fuel lyric spell, allowing me to cast all my spontaneous arcane spells effectively at will. With geomancer, all my cleric spells up to 8th level count as arcane, and I can use southern magician on the 9th level spells. Essentially, I'd be able to cast all cleric spells, all beguiler spells, and whatever spells I pick up through feats/domains at will. Normally geomancer sucks, but since all my casting is coming from one class, I don't lose any caster levels.

If that doesn't work for whatever reason, I'd either go bard 20 with bardic knack, or warlock 20. I'm a fan of at will abilities, and warlock's imbue item would be really handy for crafting. I might grab 2 levels of chameleon in any of these builds for the floating feat.

Stats would prolly end up being Str 8 Dex 9 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 11 Cha 12 or Str 9 Dex 10 Con 8 Int 13 Wis 11 Cha 12 if I decide to go necropolitan. I'd definitely want to grab some templates/potentially bloodlines (depending on how they work), since I'd gain a level every year regardless of my ecl. Being an entomanothrope ardent spider would be nifty for the short range teleport, but the int penalty hurts. Necropolitan may not be possible, but it'd be handy to reduce the need for constitution.

The problem with your bard tricks is that region specific races are out, so not being either Talfirian or Mulan will delay your tricks by quite a number of years.

[Zetapup]

The problem with your bard tricks is that region specific races are out, so not being either Talfirian or Mulan will delay your tricks by quite a number of years.

I thought that there was a rule where you could take regional feats outside your region with enough ranks in knowledge: local, but it looks like that was updated in a more recent book. That's a shame. I can afford to lose southern magician since some of the spells on the cleric list count as arcane for rainbow servants, and geomancer fixes everything up to 8th level eventually. How unfortunate, I'll have to expend spell slots in order to cast divine 9ths :smalltongue:

If I can't use early entrance feats to get into rainbow servant after 2nd level, I'd prolly enter it normally and then take levels in classes that give me extra arcane spells known instead of going into geomancer, since it wouldn't be worth it at that point.

I'm fine with being relatively low power until the rainbow servant capstone, although it'd be fairly easy to increase power before then (obtain familiar + improved familiar for a mirror mephit, enjoy the simulacrums).

[Shalist]

Per the OP, I'd probably be sorcerer / dweomerkeeper. Spontaneous since the lack of daily preparation and such appeals to my laziness, dweomerkeeper for that cost-free supernatural wish, which I'd promptly use for a 'Ring of Infinite Wishes.' I'd be happier with better skills, HPs, and saves, but ah well, there are other ways to get those.

My first goal would be to boost my mental stats, and then magic up a super computer that could grant me a thousand years of virtual reality for every minute that actually passes, giving me all the time in the world to consider my options and, hopefully, choose wisely.

---

On a side note, bestow curse / greater bestow curse (BC / GBC) are worth a mention. Specifically, using them to give yourself numerical bonuses, class features, and various other powerful / odd perks.

You can also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above, and the Dungeon Master has the final say on the curse's effect.

Positive modifiers are neither more or less 'powerful' than numerically equivalent negative modifiers, so GBCing someone with a permanent -16 intelligence is just as powerful as GBCing them with a permanent +16 intelligence; similarly, if BCs and GBCs can remove feats or class features, granting them would make for equally powerful curses.

To clarify, the notion that "more useful to the player = more powerful" isn't RAW. The only RAW reason blatantly benign 'curses' wouldn't fly at the table is (for GBC at least) the "DM has the final say on a curse's effect" clause, which arguably doesn't apply to these kinds of threads.

Just something to think about while you use the following compilation to get an idea of how powerful curses and greater curses can be.

Alternate Uses of Bestow Curse
Players Handbook

–6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).

–4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.

Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.


Book of Vile Darkness

Target is rendered sterile.

The next person introduced to the target for the first time will hate him or her uncontrollably forever. Even if this curse is removed, the person still hates the victim of the curse, but the victim can improve the person’s attitude normally after the curse is gone.

Each time the target attempts to help a friend or ally, there is a 50% chance the attempt fails and causes the ally to fail at the task.

Target is struck blind and deaf.

Each round in combat, there is a 25% chance that the target will attack the nearest creature rather than choosing an opponent normally.

Every time the victim makes a d20 roll, a roll of 20 counts as a 1.

The victim effectively ages, moving him or her to the beginning of the next age category. See Chapter 6 of the Player’s Handbook for the effects of aging.

At some point within the next week (or whenever it is feasible), thieves are able to steal all monetary wealth the victim has.

Animals refuse to be within 5 feet of the target and do not respond to the target’s commands or requests.

Each time the target meets someone for the first time, there is a 50% chance that the new person will confuse the target with a hated enemy, a well-known criminal, or a raving lunatic.

All creatures of a specific kind (such as orcs, owlbears, or black dragons) are permanently invisible to the sight of the victim (invisibility purge does not help, but see invisibility and true seeing do). The spellcaster chooses the kind of creature.


Dragon Magazine #348

Target takes -8 penalty on all checks made using one skill, such as Climb or Spellcraft.

The target's Str score counts as 10 less (minimum 1) for the purposes of carrrying capacity. This might cause some individuals to suddenly take encumbrance penalties while others collapse under the weight of their own gear.

The target's armor falls into disrepair, halving its hit points and hardness while decreasing the armor bonus it grants by -4 (minimum of 1) and doubling the armor check penalty. This effect shifts to any new armor donned, while the armor removed returns to normal (although any damage it might have taken remains)

The target must carry something designated by the caster or suffer a -5 penalty on all saves. The item can be vague (such as a holy symbol of Vecna) or specific (such as the Helm of King Aramil), but it cannot be something dangerous or deadly for the target to carry (a massive boulder or burning coals). The caster must give the object when casting the spell.

One of the target's limbs ceases to function. A nonfunctional arm cannot hold or wield any item and cannot be used to perform somatic spell components, while a nonfunctional leg prevents the target from walking properly without a crutch (and even then the target can only move at half speed). A nonfunctional wing prevents the target from flying if it uses wings to fly.

The target loses all weapon and armor proficiencies, other than simple weapons, natural weapons, and unarmored strikes. If the target has feats for which the lost proficiencies are prerequisites (such as Weapon Focus), he loses the use of these as well.

The target becomes completely socially inept. He takes -6 penalties on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive Checks, on Cha checks to influence someone, and on Disguise checks when attempting to act as someone else.

The target's armor, shield, or one of his weapons (caster's choice) becomes cursed. Its enhancement bonus is reversed and it loses any other special abilities, so a +4 flaming longsword becomes a -4 longsword. If nonmagical, the weapon, shield, or armor instead becomes a -1 weapon, shield or armor.

The target is stricken with cowardice. Each time the character rolls for initiative, he must immediately make a will save (with the same DC as the curse) or become shaken for the duration of the combat. The first time the character takes damage in the combat, he must save again or become shaken for 1d4 rounds (if already shaken, instead treat as panicked for 1d4 rounds)

The target appears to be a different alignment (caster's choice) for the purpose of divination spells and spell-like abilities such as detect evil.

The target's damage reduction, spell resistance, or elemental resistance of one type is reduced by 5, to a minimum of 0.

The target immediately becomes fatigued until he has consumed 1 pint of blood. THereafter, he gains a thirst for blood and normal food and drink no longer nourish him. He awakens fatigued each morning and must drink 1 pint of blood to stave off this fatigue for the day.

Everyone who knows the target no longer recognizes him, except for the caster. Even the target's allies do not recognize him and those who come to know him again forget knowing him each morning.

The target gains a susceptibility to damage from a certain source (caster's choice). All damage taken from this source is increased by 5 points. The source must be either a specific element, such as fire, or weapons made of a specified uncommon material such as mithral, silver, or bone.

The target loses the ability to heal naturally (although he does not lose innate healing abilities such as fast healing or regeneration). In addition, spells of the conjuration (healing) subschool only heal the target for half as much as normal. Such spells that cause damage are unaffected by this curse. For example, a cure light wounds spell cast upon a undead creature is unaffected, while an inflict light wounds spell cast on the same creature would be halved.

The target's sight is reduced to 20ft, even with natural abilities and spells such as darkvision.

The target must roll a Fort save (DC as curse) each time he commits an evil or illegal act to avoid becoming nauseated for 2d4 rounds. Alternatively, the caster may use this curse to affect those commiting acts of kindness and generosity.

The target loses the use of one of his feats. If this feat is a prerequisite for other feats, the target loses the use of those feats as well.

One of the target's minor racial abilities is disabled. Minor abilities include darkvision, low-light vision, racial save bonuses, racial skill bonuses, racial weapon proficiency or familiarity, or stability. The Dm has the final word as to what other racial abilities qualify as minor.

The target immediately becomes fatigued, and henceforth requires 12 hours of sleep each time he rests or else is fatigued for the remainder of the day.

The target becomes a disease carrier. Anyone the target touches or who touches the target must roll a DC 16 Fort save or else contract blinding sickness or cackle fever. The target is immune to the selected disease.

The target has uncontrollable shakes, imposing a -4 penalty on ranged attacks and 20% spell failure chance for spells with somatic components.

The target becomes unable to tell a lie. He may, however, choose to avoid answering a question in order to avoid telling the truth.

The target fear killing and must attempt to deal nonlethal damage whenever possible, taking a penalty of -4 on attack rolls with most weapons to do so.


Alternate Uses of Bestow Greater Curse

Spell Compendium

One ability score is reduced to 1, or two ability scores take –6 penalties (to a minimum score of 1).

–8 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.

Each turn, the subject has a 25% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.


Book of Vile Darkness

A random friend or family member of the target contracts a disease. If the disease is magically cured or runs its course (regardless of the outcome), another loved one contracts a new disease.

The target’s most powerful and/or cherished item falls apart, becoming forever useless.

Valuable metals (such as platinum, gold, silver, and copper) turn to lead in the target’s possession, even if they are in a bag of holding or stored away from the target. The target’s touch transmutes valuable metals (including coins) into lead as well.

1d4+1 of the target’s loved ones or allies are affected by a curse chosen from the bestow curse list above.

All of the target’s loved ones and allies suddenly despise him and are considered to have unfriendly attitudes. See NPC Attitudes in Chapter 5 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide for actions former allies might take.

The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell completion or spell trigger items.


Dragon Magazine #348

The target loses a class ability, such as spellcasting, sneak attack damage, or barbarian rage. If this class ability is a prerequiste for other abilites or feats, the target loses the use of those feats as well.

The target gains a susceptibility to one energy type (such as fire or electricity) or to weapons made of a specified rare or unusual material (such as adamantine or silver) of the caster's choice. The target takes an additional +50% extra damage from this source. This effect does not stack with any other weaknesses the target might already possess.

The target's alignment gradually moves toward another of the caster's choice. For example, a lawful good paladin might be cursed to become Chaotic Evil, losing access to all of his paladin spells and abilities. There is no immediate effect, but the target must make a Will save each day thereafter or his alignment shifts one step toward the chosen alignment.

The target takes damage equal to the damage he deals to others. Only damage dealt with weapon is affected, not ability damage or spell effects.

One of the target's attack options is lost (such as a dragon's breath weapon or a medusa's petrifying gaze attack.)

The target can no longer sleep soundly, perhaps wracked by nightmares or guilt over past evil deeds (caster's choice). He wakes fatigued each morning and cannot perform tasks that require him to be well-rested, such as a wizard preparing spells.

The target's most powerful or cherished possession (DM's discretion) is drawn by fate to fall into the hands of a hated enemy or rival.

The target is completely unable to use any three skills of the caster's choosing. Knowledge skills must be chosen separately.

Everyone the target sees appears to be undead, their flesh rotting from their bones and their voices reduced to hollow rasps.

All critical threats made against the target automatically confirm without requiring the attacker to reroll.

A noisy spirit haunts the target. Aside from unnerving those around the target, the spirit prevents him from using the Hide or Move Silently abilities, becoming invisible, disguising himself, or otherwise altering his appearance. A manifestation of the curse, the spirit is not actually undead and cannot be turned, rebuked, or destroyed.

All new creatures and NPC's the target encounters treat him with an initial attitude of hostile. Allies and current acquaintances do not change their attitudes toward the target.


On a side note, BC / GBC are touch spells:


Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later.Meaning you can, within reason, cast the spell whenever or wherever you want, and finish it later on with a handshake or something.

[Platymus Pus]

I recall there being a psionic that psychically reforms everyone to be you with just a few negatives.
I'd probably pick that.:sabine:

[azaph]

In the D&D world, some things are - by RAW - up to the DM's discretion.
If we're bringing the D&D world here, there's a chance that there would have to be a DM to make those judgement calls.

I don't think it's so much that anyone genuinely believes a DM would kill you, as there's a chance it could possibly happen - and why take that chance when even a half-decent optimized build would let you do whatever you want on this world?

They are. But a PnP RPG is fundamentally different from a real world. A lot of those things are basically 'the physics of the world', so I'd expect them to be determined in the same way real-world physics are, not by an active sentient force. If there's a sentient DM which can be interacted with, and cares about build, that changes a lot. The game changes from building a character, to playing the DM. I mean, look at all the builds that are selling their healing powers, and all the builds that are essentially playing a defensive survival game. If there's a DM who's going to be annoyed by someone being too powerful, those passive/defensive builds should probably be worried too. At least the OP demigod can act like some kind of freakish cross between Sandman, Exalted, and a superhero comic.

And yeah, in the world as it is today, it's certainly true that a straight wizard 20 can probably do whatever they want. If you're the only one. But you're not (and even if you thought you were, you couldn't be sure). There are a load of other people running around, too. How much do you really trust random strangers from these forums? How sure are you someone won't become power mad and try and remove everyone else who might challenge them? Or that someone won't just try and create a 'utopia' you hate. See Platymus' post, fe. And if you get into a fight with someone else who's more optimised than you, you might have a problem. In IR, we call it the security dilemma, where everyone has to prepare for war, to protect themselves from those warmongering thugs who are clearly preparing for war.
Plus, a wizard 20 has to plan, at least a bit. An [evil] wizard 19/tainted scholar 1 can respond to problems with overwhelming force, because they have stupid numbers of spells. They can blow a polymorph any object because their ice cream is vanilla, and they want chocolate. They can move a mountain because it's blocking their view. A wizard can't even keep foresight up for the whole day. It's the difference between playing as a mage in crossover nWoD, and playing one of the nobilis in Bunnies and Burrows. Sure, both of them are stupid. Sure, both of them can shape the world. But for the mage, that's a project. For the nobilis, it's a whim.

[Azoth]

They are. But a PnP RPG is fundamentally different from a real world. A lot of those things are basically 'the physics of the world', so I'd expect them to be determined in the same way real-world physics are, not by an active sentient force. If there's a sentient DM which can be interacted with, and cares about build, that changes a lot. The game changes from building a character, to playing the DM. I mean, look at all the builds that are selling their healing powers, and all the builds that are essentially playing a defensive survival game. If there's a DM who's going to be annoyed by someone being too powerful, those passive/defensive builds should probably be worried too. At least the OP demigod can act like some kind of freakish cross between Sandman, Exalted, and a superhero comic.

And yeah, in the world as it is today, it's certainly true that a straight wizard 20 can probably do whatever they want. If you're the only one. But you're not (and even if you thought you were, you couldn't be sure). There are a load of other people running around, too. How much do you really trust random strangers from these forums? How sure are you someone won't become power mad and try and remove everyone else who might challenge them? Or that someone won't just try and create a 'utopia' you hate. See Platymus' post, fe. And if you get into a fight with someone else who's more optimised than you, you might have a problem. In IR, we call it the security dilemma, where everyone has to prepare for war, to protect themselves from those warmongering thugs who are clearly preparing for war.
Plus, a wizard 20 has to plan, at least a bit. An [evil] wizard 19/tainted scholar 1 can respond to problems with overwhelming force, because they have stupid numbers of spells. They can blow a polymorph any object because their ice cream is vanilla, and they want chocolate. They can move a mountain because it's blocking their view. A wizard can't even keep foresight up for the whole day. It's the difference between playing as a mage in crossover nWoD, and playing one of the nobilis in Bunnies and Burrows. Sure, both of them are stupid. Sure, both of them can shape the world. But for the mage, that's a project. For the nobilis, it's a whim.

Another reason most people aren't going for high end or over the top builds could simply be that they are basing their hypothetical lvl20 self on their personal tastes and tendencies. Sure a Druid 10/ Planar Shephard 10 can easily get 10x the action economy of a normal druid, but does that suit the person's individual habits.

I know on this forum a lot of times we say fluff is mutable and all that matters is making the mechanics match our end goals, but we all hold on to some bit of fluff mentally. The names of classes, the abilities they give, all evoke responses in us. If someone were martially inclined would they see themselves being a Spirit Lion + Wolf Totem Barbarian in real life just to gain pounce, be good at tripping, and be able to fly into a Whirling Frenzy 1/day? The answer is going to vary more for this question than normal because it isn't a character being played, but a life being lived.

[Darkon47]

If 3.5/PF
Wizard 3/Archivist 3/Mystic theurge 10/Archivist +4

If just PF
Wizard 20(generalist)

Stats:
Str 9 Dex 11 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 8 Cha 12
Get a 14 Int in 2020 when I am still casting 2nds, a 15 in 2024 when i unlock dual 3rds, a 16 in 2026 when i turn middle age and have 4ths, 17 in 2028 with 5ths, an 18 in 2032 with 7ths, and in 2036 my int finally hits 19 just as I get 9th level spells.

Focus on item creation feats, buy a fair bit of land somewhere cheap, build a front home which I get the utilities to, then make a hidden part to it where I feed the utilities and live out in secret, getting my scrolls (for spell knowledge) and the like from the inevitable Amazon supply. Stay as hidden as possible getting everything i can by proxy and anonymous drops until 2036 when I start using genesis and permanency to have my own safe-ish demiplane. Remain an internet hermit and use contingent reincarnations to stay around forever. Keep the money supply up via crafting and/or internet based work.

[Graypairofsocks]

On a side note, bestow curse / greater bestow curse (BC / GBC) are worth a mention.

One of the example curses from BoVD can be benign.
You can use the one that makes the target sterile as a form of magical birth control.

[AnonymousPepper]

Archivist 9/Contemplative 1/Dweomerkeeper 10. Fairly easy, I should think, for what I want. I just want to do good. Heal the sick, feed the needy, clothe the poor, etc. Expand humanity to other planets. Prevent the evil folks that are sure to pop up in this thread from doing... well... evil crap, at the behest of my patron.

Builds pretty easily into Dweomerkeeper with the level in Contemplative and therefore (Su) Miracle/Wish (depending on how good I am at cheesing spells off of arcane lists) and therefore ultimately ends up at the same power level as pretty much every other build.

For the sake of sanity, let's not question how Contemplative's fluff requirement works.

[Svata]

Me and my immaculate ability to say "no" will be right there to help, any time you like.

[Strigon]

They are. But a PnP RPG is fundamentally different from a real world. A lot of those things are basically 'the physics of the world', so I'd expect them to be determined in the same way real-world physics are, not by an active sentient force. If there's a sentient DM which can be interacted with, and cares about build, that changes a lot. The game changes from building a character, to playing the DM. I mean, look at all the builds that are selling their healing powers, and all the builds that are essentially playing a defensive survival game. If there's a DM who's going to be annoyed by someone being too powerful, those passive/defensive builds should probably be worried too. At least the OP demigod can act like some kind of freakish cross between Sandman, Exalted, and a superhero comic.

Why would the defensive builds worry? The point is exactly that a PnP RPG is different from our real world - and we don't know what would happen if those two worlds collided. So it's best to be on the side of "this definitely works; there isn't a DM in the world who wouldn't allow this", as opposed to "this technically works, but most DM's would never allow it".
Maybe it's not a singular DM; maybe it's based off the opinions of everyone who's ever played D&D as to whether it's legal; maybe only the opinion of the OP matters - the point is, you have one shot at phenomenal cosmic powers, and do you really think it's a good idea to take the chance on something that might not work just so you have an even more ludicrous amount of power you have no idea what to do with?



And yeah, in the world as it is today, it's certainly true that a straight wizard 20 can probably do whatever they want. If you're the only one. But you're not (and even if you thought you were, you couldn't be sure). There are a load of other people running around, too. How much do you really trust random strangers from these forums? How sure are you someone won't become power mad and try and remove everyone else who might challenge them? Or that someone won't just try and create a 'utopia' you hate. See Platymus' post, fe. And if you get into a fight with someone else who's more optimised than you, you might have a problem. In IR, we call it the security dilemma, where everyone has to prepare for war, to protect themselves from those warmongering thugs who are clearly preparing for war.
Plus, a wizard 20 has to plan, at least a bit. An [evil] wizard 19/tainted scholar 1 can respond to problems with overwhelming force, because they have stupid numbers of spells. They can blow a polymorph any object because their ice cream is vanilla, and they want chocolate. They can move a mountain because it's blocking their view. A wizard can't even keep foresight up for the whole day. It's the difference between playing as a mage in crossover nWoD, and playing one of the nobilis in Bunnies and Burrows. Sure, both of them are stupid. Sure, both of them can shape the world. But for the mage, that's a project. For the nobilis, it's a whim.

I trust the people here not to be stupid enough to try something like that, knowing that - somewhere in the world - there are a whole bunch of people who have similar powers to you, but you don't know who or where they are, or what builds they're going with. Sure, you can use this thread as a guide, but you never know who changed their build and how, or whether they've left to live somewhere else.

I don't think most people are confident enough in their build - and have so little faith in others' - to risk their life trying to rule the world when they can live more comfortably than anyone else in the history of mankind without bothering anyone. Anyone who was foolish enough to rock the boat wouldn't last long, I'm sure.

Besides, even if everything goes horribly wrong, finding a little secluded spot to call your own wouldn't take much, and by level 20, there's a pretty good chance you could survive on your own plane, on another planet.


What you get in this scenario is mutually assured destruction; tick off the rest of the posters here, and somebody is going to die. Why take the chance that it's you?

[Jack_Simth]

Let's see... thinking more on my outline from earlier...
Dual-cursed Spirit Guide Oracle (Occult, Dual-cursed (Forsaken (advancing) and Legalistic (non-advancing))).

Stats: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 -> Cha / Wis / Int / Con / Dex / Str

Race: (If selectable): Kitsune. Either way, with PF mechanics, +2 Cha in the mix, so Cha 15 at 1st, and either way, I get to look like me full time.

At 3rd, the Spirit Guide archetype lets me pick Arcane spells by way of the Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment hex when I hit. Now, initially, I can only pick up a single 1st level spell this way, but that's not much of an issue, as the one I'll most often want (initially, at least) is Blood Money. On crafting days, though, the one I'll want is Benefits of Wisdom (use Cha instead of Int for skill checks - which includes Craft, Knowledge, and Spellcraft, among others).

Revelations:
1: Misfortune (Immediate Action rerolls 1/day/person... nothing stops me from using it on myself when I fail a roll)
5: Automatic Writing (free Augury/Divination/Commune, depending on level - good for investing)
11: Spirit Walk (go incorporeal for a few rounds)
13: Fortune (Immediate Action rerolls for me - good for gambling and 'oops' moments)
19: Shroud of Retribution (mostly because I was running out of ones that seemed good)

Feats:
1: Noble Scion (Scion of War)
3: Craft Wondrous Item
5: Craft Magic Arms & Armor
7: Forge Ring
9: Craft Rod (Pathfinder crafting lets me bypass some requirements - such as needing the metamagic feat to make the metamagic rod)
11: Flyby attack (Incorporeal lets me fly)
13: Craft Staff
15: Craft Wand (or Realistic Likeness, if Kitsune)
17: Craft Construct (or Fox Shape, if Kitsune)
19: Scribe Scroll (or Swift Kitsune Shapechanger, if Kitsune)

Traits... Spark of Creation, and Finding your Kin (yes, it's a campaign trait, but it gives me extra skill points AND hit points!)

Use the Favored Class Bonuses for skill points if Kitsune, spells if human. Either way, I end up with 6 skill points/level until I get my Int up (which I will, because Crafter)

Skills...
Max Ranks each in:
UMD (not class, but still very useful, especially with a Charisma-based caster... especially as it allows me to potentially cherry-pick a few revelations from other mysteries via that one ring)
Spellcraft (Crafting skill)
Diplomacy (What? I'd like to be able to win friends and influence people more readily)
Sense Motive (Defensive social skill)
Perception (Defensive stealth skill)
Profession/Craft for my current job - don't want to get fired, after all.

As for magic items (as hey, Crafter): All of the 'good ones' when I'm able to make them. For crafting... yeah, use the trade goods rule and salt. Cheap trick, but ethical enough. Look around online a little, and you can get a 25 pound bag of salt online for like $9... so that's 125 crafting GP for $9, or 7.2 cents per crafting GP material cost. And... that's assuming I don't contact a salt manufacturer and get it in *real* bulk. Make a headband for different "personalities" (Headbands of Mental Superiority +6, each of which has three different skill sets - trade a headband, wait a day, and pretend to be someone else).

I have lots of useable skills at 1st level - Immediate Action Reroll 1/day is great for gambling at a 49/51 win/lose 'double or lose' game such as roulette. Place a few bets, then go home; don't bet all my any given throw, money, but do use the reroll the first time I would otherwise lose, and then go home.

At 10th, I become much harder to kill (free automatic Raise Dead 1/week, followed by Blood Money to use Restoration on myself to get rid of the negative levels).

At 20th, I go Ghost and never look back.

If Gestalt is on the table, the other side becomes a dip-fest.



For the sake of sanity, let's not question how Contemplative's fluff requirement works.You cast "Planar Ally" to contact a representative of your deity directly.


But yeah, I'd probably try to be good too.

[johnbragg]

Why would the defensive builds worry? The point is exactly that a PnP RPG is different from our real world - and we don't know what would happen if those two worlds collided. So it's best to be on the side of "this definitely works; there isn't a DM in the world who wouldn't allow this", as opposed to "this technically works, but most DM's would never allow it".
Maybe it's not a singular DM; maybe it's based off the opinions of everyone who's ever played D&D as to whether it's legal; maybe only the opinion of the OP matters - the point is, you have one shot at phenomenal cosmic powers, and do you really think it's a good idea to take the chance on something that might not work just so you have an even more ludicrous amount of power you have no idea what to do with?

Precisely. Imagine a PbP game. In a game where the DM does not respond to character build questions. ANything is allowed, until rocks-fall-and-you-die. And, if you die in the game, you die.
I don't think the people posting TO builds, or mechanically-sound-but-disadvantaged characters, are taking that part seriously.

[Cosi]

The reason not to post super optimized builds isn't because you're worried the DM will kill you, it's because that's a solved problem. You can get your SLA wish for your Ring of Infinite Wishes at somewhere between 1 (Pazuzu cheese), 5 (Artificer poaching spells), and 17 (Supernatural wish off of Dweomerkeeper). And then you win the game. But that's how it works in D&D, so posting that answer is not particularly interesting. That's also why I'm in favor of assuming there are no Genies/Demon Lords/whatever out there. It massively extends the sweet spot where you have "some power" rather than "all the power".

[Eldest]

Psion(telepath) 20, with wedded to history and grabbing good powers off everyone's list with feats. If gestalt is allowed, add factotum on to the other side. Relax and make some art, pick up programming, and stay off the radar as more people appear to have these abilities. I don't want any sort of demi plane or such to myself, I generally like people, so I'd hop cities every decade or 4, setting up a bookstore and enjoying life. (Or perhaps I'd just go with factotum as the main class if no gestalt...)

[Troacctid]

Gestalt is not allowed.

[Eldest]

I am unsuprised but saddened. Probably factotum with a Hidden Talent feat, then.

[Malroth]

Elan Telepath Psion 19 Thrallherd 1, I'd live a life of Debauchery somewhere way off in the boonies.

[TheNivMizzet]

Well theres no GM to tell us to pack our **** in or throw books at us. And since we're mixing Pathfinder and 3.5 it opens so much possibility. I want to get my CL has high as possible, since the only thing to contend with is other casters, and mundanes (Everyone without powers), can eat it.

Str: 8
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Wis: 9
Int: 13+2
Cha: 11

Wizard 5, Ultimate Magus 10, Any 5 (Maybe Fatespinner or Incantatrix)
Taking the following ACFs:
Spontaneous Divination
Specializing in Conjuration, Banning Necromancy and Evocation (Under Pathfinder rules)
Abrupt Jaunt

Craft the magical items needed to bump my int to around 24, every level up stat boost goes into int.. By the age of 40 I can turn into a lich. Taking Eschew Materials is important. Empower and Invisible Spell metamagic, Craft Wonderous Items for item crafting.
At level 20, I'll have Caster Level 27, meaning I can take Epic feats every year after that. Live the life of a shut in, using small enchantment spells to keep things running smooth until I hit around level 11, craft my wonderous headbands in private, and tide over until I hit high levels and start ending conflicts. We've mentioned in the thread before that nuclear attacks are the only way to keep persistant damage but I'm pretty sure divination still works, and we'll have the means to teleport and prevent nukes and such going off.
Power corrupts? Absolutely. It's only a matter of time before someone goes Injustice on us, and I'm pretty sure it'll come down to which side has the most clerics/wizards. Psions are in there too, but I always lump psions/erudites with wizards.

[Quertus]

I have to say, I'm surprised how few people are really munchkining this. In a game, sure, it's obnoxious, but in real life, I fail to see why you'd avoid making yourself too powerful.
Like, I'm the only person who's gone for tainted scholar. Which is infamously broken, and gets around the fact that one's highest starting stat is 13. I'd say it's the taint stuff, but given how many people are wanting to be liches anyway, I doubt that. There's been barely any ur priests, or planar sheperds, or any of the other 'oh God, why?' prcs, either. Some of them do get a lot worse in this situation, true, but a lot of them... don't.


I mean, Tainted Scholar literally makes you go insane. In a game, all those nasty side effects are happening to a fictional character--you don't actually have to experience them. Would you be willing to take a 10% chance that for the rest of your life, whenever you come across a sleeping person, you will immediately attempt to murder them on the spot? That's one of the possible side effects of severe depravity, so if you want to be a Tainted Scholar, those are the dice you're rolling.

I did mention tainted sorcerer and ur priest, plus illithid savant, beholder mage, and home brew. It's hard to get much more... optimized than that. ;) I just don't think I'd like to be most of those. :P

It would be nice if RAW was consistent, and, recognizing that stealing wasn't inherently evil, had made ur priest not inherently evil.

Tainted scholar only updated evil taint, right? So would alternate taint be modeled after tainted scholar, or use the old taint / tainted sorcerer rules? I imagine the 10% chance of murdering people in their sleep is from evil taint, and that the chart for good taint might have things like a 10% chance to give all your worldly possessions away to anyone in need you meet. But this is part of why my build is nebulous, as it will depend on what the results of my experiments / divisions tell me about the nature of the world I / we now live in.

[dhasenan]

I have to say, I'm surprised how few people are really munchkining this.

If getting a level 9 spell slot by level 11 isn't good enough for you, and crafting magic items using only salt for a monetary component doesn't impress, have you considered all the benefits that Ice Assassin can provide?

You use Wish once and it costs 5,000XP. Or you create one Ice Assassin and it can use Wish ten times.

You want to craft a magic item. It costs 50,000XP, which is enough to bump you back to level 3. Ouch! Or you can have your ice assassin do it instead.

But creating ice assassins is a drain (literally). You need to craft a magic item that creates more ice assassins for you. Wait, don't do that! That would be a mistake. Instead, create an ice assassin and have it create that magic item.

Spending money on magic items is passé. It helped that we could spend salt on things, but it's still costing us thousands of dollars a month. I like the sound of "free", though. I've got a bunch of ice assassins hanging around with nothing to do for hours per day. They can spend their spells casting Wall of Stone, Stone to Flesh, and Flesh to Salt. Three spells and I have ten thousand gp worth of salt.

[Clistenes]

Wizard 3/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Archmage 5/Loremaster 9

I guess I could find a more optimized build, but it isn't as if I was going to try to pick fights. If I gain a level each year, I don't need to go out and hunt for XP.

Those three Archivist levels would delay my access to those sweet, sweet high level Wizard spells, but hey, if I get real magic, I want Remove Disease, Regenerate, Cure Wounds, Resurrection, Reincarnate and all that stuff, because in real life, at the end of the day, keeping my family alive is more important that blowing stuff with fire and lighting.

[Tvtyrant]

If I was really cheesing it I would play a Wizard 18/Chameleon 2 to learn every spell, make myself immortal in one of hundreds of ways, and begin seeding the stars with mankind. Permanent portals between planets and on planets for free trade, post scarcity traps, and flying spell traps of Hallow+Zone of Truth for a lie free humanity.

Permanent Wall of Magma for infinite energy, permanent animate objects for the same reason or for cheap vehicles.

[Quertus]

You don't have a "character sheet" before this. All abilities you gain from class levels are in addition to what you can already do--any existing abilities you have don't need to be included.

Anyway, by RAW, regional languages don't count as bonus languages.

A few clarifying questions...

If we have the equivalent of 10 ranks in speak(language), or the equivalent of any other skill, do we have

commoner / expert levels sufficient to give us these ranks?
A racial (individual?) bonus to the skill in question?
Other?


And how do our existing skills / feats interact with our "character sheet"? Continuing with languages as the example, can we add max ranks at first level to speak language, if our pre-existing self already has 10 languages, or does our pre-existing self limit our max ranks? Languages being a special case, do we learn bonus languages if our character sheet (intelligence) says we should (and we currently only know 1)?

Can we continue to learn things IRL at their normal rate that overlap with our character sheet (languages, craft skills, knowledge skills; exotic weapon proficiencies, mounted combat, etc), or do those become limited by our character sheet?

A few questions that the playground would be able to answer year 1, if not day 1:

Can we "see" our character sheet? Do we consciously select how to level? I ask in part because I would want my build to be organic, based on what I encounter, and what I learn of the rules of reality.
To what extent do our "existing abilities" carry over? If I have, "can drink a bottle of Jack and only start to feel it", do I get a "racial" bonus to Fort saves? A bonus to saves vs. poison? Expert levels matching my saves and skills?
Do prestige classes have their normal prerequisites? Do our real world abilities (skills, feats, saves, BAB) allow us to qualify for prestige classes?
When we use a cash-earning skill (perform, profession, and maybe craft), what happens? RAW, we get gold pieces (/ SP / CP)...
All 1st level wizards get Scribe Scroll, and, unlike in 2e, there is no concept of researching how to create items - Item creation feats just give you the knowledge of how to make items. So... do we require specific components to create items - components which may not exist in this world - or can we use anything of appropriate value? This is one of many reasons my build is organic, based on the results of my research.


Part of my build decision was based on the premise that, based on my speakwrite languages skill, apparent fort save, and stats, that I was going to find myself suddenly much... diminished. That I would be going from the equivalent of a "high level" expert (with elite array / point buy / rolled stats) to a 1st-level PC character (with standard array / bad stats). And, therefore, that stubbing my toe (etc) would suddenly hurt a lot more (reduced HD, reduced HP), I'd be much more susceptible to diseases (reduced con, reduced HD, reduced fort saves), etc. And I'd be a cheap drunk. :smallbiggrin: So understanding exactly how our character sheet and the real world interact would be helpful.

And something that we probably wouldn't just know, but I have to ask anyway - do we only "die of old age" per our character sheet, or do we now have a "duel mortality", where we die if our "real world" body would wear out, or if we pass the D&D old age limits?

[Troacctid]

A few clarifying questions...

If we have the equivalent of 10 ranks in speak(language), or the equivalent of any other skill, do we have

commoner / expert levels sufficient to give us these ranks?
A racial (individual?) bonus to the skill in question?
Other?


And how do our existing skills / feats interact with our "character sheet"?
You don't have any skill ranks before you gain your level. You just do the thing however well you do it. Skill ranks are added on top of that.


Continuing with languages as the example, can we add max ranks at first level to speak language, if our pre-existing self already has 10 languages, or does our pre-existing self limit our max ranks?
Speak Language doesn't use ranks, so there's actually no maximum for it. A 1st level Human Bard with 10 Intelligence could learn 28 languages if she wanted.


Languages being a special case, do we learn bonus languages if our character sheet (intelligence) says we should (and we currently only know 1)?
You get as many bonus languages as your Intelligence entitles you to, on top of whatever languages you already know.


Can we continue to learn things IRL at their normal rate that overlap with our character sheet (languages, craft skills, knowledge skills; exotic weapon proficiencies, mounted combat, etc), or do those become limited by our character sheet?
Yes you can.


Can we "see" our character sheet? Do we consciously select how to level? I ask in part because I would want my build to be organic, based on what I encounter, and what I learn of the rules of reality.
When you level up, you make all decisions you would make if you were leveling up a D&D character.


To what extent do our "existing abilities" carry over? If I have, "can drink a bottle of Jack and only start to feel it", do I get a "racial" bonus to Fort saves? A bonus to saves vs. poison? Expert levels matching my saves and skills?
That would be akin to what the FATE system calls an "Aspect."


Do prestige classes have their normal prerequisites? Do our real world abilities (skills, feats, saves, BAB) allow us to qualify for prestige classes?
You have to qualify using your character sheet stats.


When we use a cash-earning skill (perform, profession, and maybe craft), what happens? RAW, we get gold pieces (/ SP / CP)...
You gain the equivalent amount of the local currency.


All 1st level wizards get Scribe Scroll, and, unlike in 2e, there is no concept of researching how to create items - Item creation feats just give you the knowledge of how to make items. So... do we require specific components to create items - components which may not exist in this world - or can we use anything of appropriate value? This is one of many reasons my build is organic, based on the results of my research.
You use valuable materials. I dunno.


And something that we probably wouldn't just know, but I have to ask anyway - do we only "die of old age" per our character sheet, or do we now have a "duel mortality", where we die if our "real world" body would wear out, or if we pass the D&D old age limits?
You'll find out when you do or do not die of old age.

[Jack_Simth]

You don't have any skill ranks before you gain your level. You just do the thing however well you do it. Skill ranks are added on top of that.
Well, that changes how I'd allocate my skill ranks slightly. Not by too terribly much, though.

[Telok]

I pretty much understood it as gesalting your real self with a D&D character build. That's partly why I went with a psion focused on self enhancement, environmental manipulation, skill boosts, and utility. It avoids any questionable TO issues that could turn out to be detrimental and isn't reliant on saves or SR penetration or other such issues in case of conflict.

Even avoiding optional sidebar rules and the worst of the dsyfunctional stuff there isn't much you can't acheive as long as you don't go and get yourself killed. But I'd be cautious about assuming things like the ability to make a +3 computer by conjuring several tons of salt or anything else that hasn't been well and truely nailed down by now. I'd expect savage bard into ur-priest into mystic theurge to work, but I'd like divinatory confirmation before assuming how sanctum spell worked or the existence of a specific demon.

Thats part of the reason I included room for a couple of luck feats and access to things like Moment of Prescience and Astral Seed. Real life isn't very accepting of effortless retraining or coming back next week with a new character.

[gooddragon1]

I'd just go into some prestige class that's going to make sure I don't die of old age. If I also lose most of my flesh, that's ok.

How much is most of your flesh? Would you be willing to part with other things? How many?

If your answer to all of these questions is yes, boy howdy do I have a deal for you! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm)

[Troacctid]

I pretty much understood it as gesalting your real self with a D&D character build.

That's a good way to look at it, although your real self isn't necessarily represented accurately by a D&D build—for example, your real-life salary might not be the same as what you could get from a Profession check.

[Hazrond]

Ok, i would be a straight lvl 20 Mesmerist VMC Bard with Craft Wondrous Item and Leadership, as well as Spell Focus (Enchantment) and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), i would put my 13 into charisma and i only need 3 level up boosts to that to bring me up to 16 for my highest level spells somewhere around 12-13th level i would use my utterly broken enchantment abilities to gain ahold of some solid cash, then use this money to craft a Memoir and become a Psychic Lich (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lich-psychic-cr-2) so as to prevent the need to worry about death. After that i can literally just do whatever i want (which will likely consist of controlling someone with cash and using them to pay for my video game addiction, and maybe occasionally doing something fun to spice things up) i will also have a large group of friends and followers from leadership to keep me company so loneliness wouldn't be an issue, all in all i think i will be pretty good

Around the time i am crafting my Memoir, my DCs should be roughly 18-19 at a minimum, more if i have some extra charisma, also my target will be taking a -3 penalty, meaning that for most average people the saving throw is nearly impossible. Also upon reaching level 20 i will be able to have ALOT of fun with Rule Minds (Unwitting Ally indeed...)

[Vizzerdrix]

I'd like to say full caster, but I know I don't have the stats for that. Not all the way to 9s, at least. I think I could manage 4s or 5s in time, so I'd have to work with that.

That means I'd have to take classes that rip off other lists. Archaivist, StP Erudite, UA spellcaster, and Mystic Ranger. Factotum into Chameleon could work as well.

I think i would end up going SotAO Mystic Ranger 5/ Chameleon 10/ Mystic Ranger 5. My irl stats would be a bit strained but I think I could manage It. Then the only thing left would be getting my 3 ferrets counted as my familiars (I will need to get one back from the dead, and ideally also change them into mustival guardinals), and getting access to a form of unaging as soon as I could for a few members of the ole family. After that, I would just mimic some of the plans here to make cash. I think I will go hash a full build out, just to see where I can go with it.

[Florian]

Lol!

Going by the age table, my class spread will look like this: Human Commoner 4/Fighter 2/Expert 10
My feats would look something like this: Betrayer, EWP: Firearms, Persuasive, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Skill Focus: Craft (x2), Skill Focus (Profession (x2)
(I did my tour of duty)

So I´m looking forward to some additional levels of Expert before I enter the epic class of "Retiree"....

[Clistenes]

I'd like to say full caster, but I know I don't have the stats for that. Not all the way to 9s, at least. I think I could manage 4s or 5s in time, so I'd have to work with that.

Take into account that you would get age bonuses too, so if you put all your bonus ability point into your main casting ability, and add the age bonuses, you could probably reach high enough stats: +5 due to character advancement plus +3 due to advanced age, plus +1 for every four epic levels; if you live 30 years and reach old age, you would gain +10 ability points... at which point you make yourself young again and live forever because you are an epic full caster and you can do whatever you want...

[ekarney]

So pre-class levels I'd say at the moment I have:
Human. (Whichever jackass was in charge of this messed up. I could be flying right now, or actually be able to see further than the end of my nose in the dark,)
Flaws: Inattentive. and either Unreactive or Murky-eyed. Unless all 3 are allowed. But I don't think I have that many feats at the moment.
Trait: Polite. Or Torpid. I think my IRL character sheet might be illegible.

Anyway, I'll just go Archivist until I qualify for Rimefire Witch. Then I'll take that until I'm a fey. I get mad casting and I can be immortal.

[Jack_Simth]

Take into account that you would get age bonuses too, so if you put all your bonus ability point into your main casting ability, and add the age bonuses, you could probably reach high enough stats: +5 due to character advancement plus +3 due to advanced age, plus +1 for every four epic levels; if you live 30 years and reach old age, you would gain +10 ability points... at which point you make yourself young again and live forever because you are an epic full caster and you can do whatever you want...
Also that you start with the nonelite array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 in this scenario, and can arrange it as you see fit. Note that Epic levels probably don't fly here, as the OP specified a cap of 20 (feats thereafter). Drop the 13 into a primary casting stat, put level boosts there, and as long as you don't die before then (and your agelessness doesn't come online before then, assuming you go that route), you'll eventually be able to cast your 9ths (13 base + 5 level up +1 middle age = 19; if Pathfinder, that's 13 +2 racial (Humans get a selectable +2 ability score bonus in Pathfinder) +5 level up = 20, no need for middle age).

[Bad Wolf]

I'd say Sorcerer 8/Binder 2//Anima Mage 10.

[Karmea]

Str 8, Dex 9, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 11 with Wedded to History(survivor or wanderer). Aging sucks.

As for class, I'd probably go with a StP (favoured discipline) Erudite 9/Mindbender 1/Slayer 10 or an Archivist 5/Divine Oracle 3/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 1/Dweomerkeeper 10.

Protect myself against others, keep low profile and generally enjoy the immortal life, helping people subtly where I can. Maybe time travel a bit. If things get too heated, move away to my demiplane(s) with my friends and family. I don't care for world domination, seems like way too much work for too little benefit.

[Morphic tide]

Dread Necro 20, for Lichdom and awesome powers of killing everything living. Also to make my encounters for level 21. Feats would be focused on item creation, to make magical armor for my squishy and brittle minions. Then, when I go lich, I'll start the research into Ghoul/Wight/Shadow freaks to start taking over the world with nigh unstopable infinite energy. Or Artificer 20 to make an item that gets the endless crafting XP to make the item that gets me infinite Wishes, which I then use to Wish to become a Warforged, then for one more level some way, probably summoning CR appropriate encounters, to get Epic feats and that Artificer 21 goodness. Make EVAs, 40K Titans and magitech spaceships for the LOLs, Summon a god or two for a curbstomping, and overrun all the afterlives with a big helping of Humanity **** YEA-SCIENCE style. Or do both, Artificer first for a head start on the crafting, then Dread Necro to get the power needed to make most Gods piss themselves. Epic magic AND Artifacts? About as close to Pun Pun as I'll get.

[digiman619]

Monk of the Four Winds 20. Enjoy mortality, suckers!

[Svata]

And you enjoy Monktality.

[Clistenes]

Dread Necro 20, for Lichdom and awesome powers of killing everything living. Also to make my encounters for level 21. Feats would be focused on item creation, to make magical armor for my squishy and brittle minions. Then, when I go lich, I'll start the research into Ghoul/Wight/Shadow freaks to start taking over the world with nigh unstopable infinite energy. Or Artificer 20 to make an item that gets the endless crafting XP to make the item that gets me infinite Wishes, which I then use to Wish to become a Warforged, then for one more level some way, probably summoning CR appropriate encounters, to get Epic feats and that Artificer 21 goodness. Make EVAs, 40K Titans and magitech spaceships for the LOLs, Summon a god or two for a curbstomping, and overrun all the afterlives with a big helping of Humanity **** YEA-SCIENCE style. Or do both, Artificer first for a head start on the crafting, then Dread Necro to get the power needed to make most Gods piss themselves. Epic magic AND Artifacts? About as close to Pun Pun as I'll get.

The question is, why would you want to do that? If you take 20 levels of Wizard, you can literally do anything and have anything you wish. Infinite money, eternal youth, your own demiplane, Simulacrum servants, you can use Magecraft and Fabricate to produce any non-magical stuff with a snap of your fingers... All that without bothering anybody, you can be richest than all the other people in the world combined without stepping out of you house save to gather raw materials. And if you want to do some tourism, you have Teleport and Plane Shift.

Conquering the world with an undead army wouldn't procure you anything a Wizard couldn't have with a snap of his fingers. The only reason to do it would be for fun, because you enjoy torturing people and perpetrating genocide in a global scale.

[Venom3053000]

Sorcerer

Who has the time to sit around for 8 hours to get spells?

And having less spells then a wizard doesn't matter when there are only so many spells you need as a nonadventurer

[Jack_Simth]

Sorcerer

Who has the time to sit around for 8 hours to get spells?

It's a difference of only 45 minutes. The Wizard needs 8 hours of rest +1 hour of spellbook time. The Sorcerer needs 8 hours of rest + 15 minutes of concentration.

[Morphic tide]

The question is, why would you want to do that? If you take 20 levels of Wizard, you can literally do anything and have anything you wish. Infinite money, eternal youth, your own demiplane, Simulacrum servants, you can use Magecraft and Fabricate to produce any non-magical stuff with a snap of your fingers... All that without bothering anybody, you can be richest than all the other people in the world combined without stepping out of you house save to gather raw materials. And if you want to do some tourism, you have Teleport and Plane Shift.

Conquering the world with an undead army wouldn't procure you anything a Wizard couldn't have with a snap of his fingers. The only reason to do it would be for fun, because you enjoy torturing people and perpetrating genocide in a global scale.

Artificer does not require a source of the spells you get, and can get Divine magic. And more importantly, Artificer's are able to get back crafting XP, so I could build up the crafting XP for an item to get endless crafting XP somewhere around level 15. Then I make the Ring of Unlimited Wishes for unlimited power. Followed by Wishing for CR appropriate encounters of cannon fodder to blast with Maximized Empowered Disintegrates. And I don't spend my feats on item crafting, so I can use them for crafting XP reduction. The end result is that I can make magic items for about 50% base XP cost and use them reliably, leading to such grand @$$loads of item creation that I get several levels ahead on WBL over Wizards. As to how the grand cost rediction happens, make it locked to Chaotic Good Warforged Artificers, which gets the XP and GP cost to around 50% of normal, and requires 4 extra UMD checks to make use of for those who aren't in all those categories. Make scrolls of Gate to get XP gains quickly, though Wizards can get access to this, and generally make yourself better than Wizards at item making. The big advantage is not needing anyone else to get spells from, the one thing about Wizards, Archivists and StP Erudites everyone is ignoring. As for the undead army, it's taking over the world with cheap labor and unstoppable troops, the cheap labor being the main goal, as the undead need no food, water, sleep or air and these things can wipe their @$$ with most military units today. After all, a Wizard can still only be in one place at a time without 9th level spells, so an army is something they still need. And Dread Necromancers know ALL their spells available, again, Wizards, Archivists and StP Erudites need to learn their spells from outside sources or spend weeks making them themselves

[Jack_Simth]

Artificer does not require a source of the spells you get, and can get Divine magic. And more importantly, Artificer's are able to get back crafting XP, so I could build up the crafting XP for an item to get endless crafting XP somewhere around level 15. Then I make the Ring of Unlimited Wishes for unlimited power. Followed by Wishing for CR appropriate encounters of cannon fodder to blast with Maximized Empowered Disintegrates. And I don't spend my feats on item crafting, so I can use them for crafting XP reduction. The end result is that I can make magic items for about 50% base XP cost and use them reliably, leading to such grand @$$loads of item creation that I get several levels ahead on WBL over Wizards. As to how the grand cost rediction happens, make it locked to Chaotic Good Warforged Artificers, which gets the XP and GP cost to around 50% of normal, and requires 4 extra UMD checks to make use of for those who aren't in all those categories. Make scrolls of Gate to get XP gains quickly, though Wizards can get access to this, and generally make yourself better than Wizards at item making. The big advantage is not needing anyone else to get spells from, the one thing about Wizards, Archivists and StP Erudites everyone is ignoring. As for the undead army, it's taking over the world with cheap labor and unstoppable troops, the cheap labor being the main goal, as the undead need no food, water, sleep or air and these things can wipe their @$$ with most military units today. After all, a Wizard can still only be in one place at a time without 9th level spells, so an army is something they still need. And Dread Necromancers know ALL their spells available, again, Wizards, Archivists and StP Erudites need to learn their spells from outside sources or spend weeks making them themselves
Collegiate Wizard, Complete Arcane page 181: Start with 6+Int first level spells, gain 4 spells/level without research. That really is plenty of spells known all by itself for most purposes, and past a point it's a fairly straightforward matter to get access to a Tome of Ancient Lore (Magic Item Compendium page 189) and there's a little known clause as part of Replacing and Copying Spellbooks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#replacingandCopyingSpellbooks) that lets you write a prepared spell into your spellbook: "If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above). The process wipes the prepared spell from her mind, just as casting it would. If she does not have the spell prepared, she can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book."

Also... you really didn't answer Clistenes's question: "why would you want to do that?" While yes, an Artificer can make magic items more easily, and a Dread Necromancer can raise an army more easily... what's the point? The Artificer has to fetch crafting materials and spend days on each spell they "cast" later. The wizard needs to wait an extra few levels, but is expending much less effort than is the Artificer.

Let's do a comparative example: You'd like to sleep in a Magnificient Mansion every night (or day, if you're a nightowl). Ignoring shenanigans (which the Wizard can do better - there's a build to get 9th level spells on a 1st level wizard), a Magnificent Mansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesMagnificentMansion.htm) is a 7th level spell, so requires Wizard-13 or Artificer-11. But the catch is "every night". The Artificer-11 making a scroll for it is looking at a market price of 2,275 gp; normally, that'd be a 3-day craft. Trouble is, it'll only last 22 hours. Exceptional Artisan reduces the base time by 25%, but that still only gets you down to two days if you're lucky. You're going to want a few dedicated wights to do the actual crafting... oh yes, and you're burning XP and GP each night. If you're allowed fully custom items, then you're fine... on that command-word 7th level spell at caster level 13 for a base price of 163,800 gp market that'll take you a decent chunk of a year to craft, plus the time to gather the materials, and the hit on your crafting reserve. The wizard just casts the spell every night once he's got it. It's no special effort, and costs him nothing more than the spell known and some nice silverware. What have you gained, really?

Consider the Dread Necromancer. Yes, you get a (usually presumed) free phylactery at 20th, can make higher-quality undead, and have a slightly better control pool. But again: What does it really get you? Take, say, 16th level. 13 base Charisma per the rules of this game, +4 level up, maybe a crafted +6 Cloak of Charisma (not that you have the required spells on your list as a Dread Necromancer), and let's say +2 from race or age; that'll put you at a Charisma of 25. Other than the Planar Binding spells (which you can't really use because you don't have Magic Circle or Dimensional Anchor) and False Life, you've got no "comfort" effects. You're stuck with the mundane. Yes, you can have ... what, 176 HD of undead in your control pool, and another 16 in your Rebuke pool? Meanwhile, the modern world has man-portable weaponry that'll take down tanks, and you're burning gems for each minion. You're not taking over a country with those things unless you're doing something very mass-murdery, like making a Wight, Rebuking it under your control, and then setting it loose on a population so that you can control the spawn indirectly... and that's the sort of infection that would quite possibly draw nuclear fire to cauterize (and it's also very, very fragile, as you've got 'keystone' wights all over the place that - if they die - remove your control of the spawn underneath them). Even if you do control a small country that way... what have you gotten, really, that a Wizard couldn't have picked up at 7th via a few castings of Dominate Person on an existing ruler?

[Forrestfire]

Egoist Psion 20, with the Minor Change Shape ACF and Wedded to History. I'd play it safe and have the shapeshifting to improve my day to day life until I hit a point where I could take Expanded Knowledge to get psychic reformation, then potentially genesis and astral seed (if the Astral Plane exists at all). Otherwise, safety, security, and quality of life as much as I can, followed by trying to make the world a better place without being corrupted by power.

[EyethatBinds]

I'm almost to middle aged for my race, so I'll pick Barbarian. Magic doesn't exist in this campaign setting, so I should pick something with no supernatural abilities. The HP boost would mean I could probably get hit by a bus and shake it off.

[Jack_Simth]

Magic doesn't exist in this campaign settingThat's been brought up before; the original poster addressed it with:
Magic and supernatural abilities will function just fine, although getting hold of material components for any spells you cast may prove more difficult without spell component pouches readily available at the local magic supply shop.

[Xuldarinar]

Primary Class: Dread Necromancer
Secondary Class: Oracle

Str: 9
Dex: 11
Con: 8
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 13

Curse: Uncertain.
Mystery: Life.
Revelations: Channel, Energy Body, and Lifesense.

Orison: Uncertain.


Why? If I live 20 more years, which is almost certainly a given, I'll be immortal. I'll have enough time to set up my life, do everything I want to that requires I be a living entity, and after that point I'll have no physical dependencies. 7 years from now, I can decide which Orison I want.. likely what I think I could use to turn a profit and help others. Would be nice to be able to sustain myself economically with an orison. Healing abilities coming out of the life revelation would be useful, both in terms of helping others (generous in its own right) but to also promote a benevolent perception of me.

[Morphic tide]

Collegiate Wizard, Complete Arcane page 181: Start with 6+Int first level spells, gain 4 spells/level without research. That really is plenty of spells known all by itself for most purposes, and past a point it's a fairly straightforward matter to get access to a Tome of Ancient Lore (Magic Item Compendium page 189) and there's a little known clause as part of Replacing and Copying Spellbooks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#replacingandCopyingSpellbooks) that lets you write a prepared spell into your spellbook: "If she already has a particular spell prepared, she can write it directly into a new book at a cost of 100 gp per page (as noted in Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, above). The process wipes the prepared spell from her mind, just as casting it would. If she does not have the spell prepared, she can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book."

Also... you really didn't answer Clistenes's question: "why would you want to do that?" While yes, an Artificer can make magic items more easily, and a Dread Necromancer can raise an army more easily... what's the point? The Artificer has to fetch crafting materials and spend days on each spell they "cast" later. The wizard needs to wait an extra few levels, but is expending much less effort than is the Artificer.

Let's do a comparative example: You'd like to sleep in a Magnificient Mansion every night (or day, if you're a nightowl). Ignoring shenanigans (which the Wizard can do better - there's a build to get 9th level spells on a 1st level wizard), a Magnificent Mansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesMagnificentMansion.htm) is a 7th level spell, so requires Wizard-13 or Artificer-11. But the catch is "every night". The Artificer-11 making a scroll for it is looking at a market price of 2,275 gp; normally, that'd be a 3-day craft. Trouble is, it'll only last 22 hours. Exceptional Artisan reduces the base time by 25%, but that still only gets you down to two days if you're lucky. You're going to want a few dedicated wights to do the actual crafting... oh yes, and you're burning XP and GP each night. If you're allowed fully custom items, then you're fine... on that command-word 7th level spell at caster level 13 for a base price of 163,800 gp market that'll take you a decent chunk of a year to craft, plus the time to gather the materials, and the hit on your crafting reserve. The wizard just casts the spell every night once he's got it. It's no special effort, and costs him nothing more than the spell known and some nice silverware. What have you gained, really?

Consider the Dread Necromancer. Yes, you get a (usually presumed) free phylactery at 20th, can make higher-quality undead, and have a slightly better control pool. But again: What does it really get you? Take, say, 16th level. 13 base Charisma per the rules of this game, +4 level up, maybe a crafted +6 Cloak of Charisma (not that you have the required spells on your list as a Dread Necromancer), and let's say +2 from race or age; that'll put you at a Charisma of 25. Other than the Planar Binding spells (which you can't really use because you don't have Magic Circle or Dimensional Anchor) and False Life, you've got no "comfort" effects. You're stuck with the mundane. Yes, you can have ... what, 176 HD of undead in your control pool, and another 16 in your Rebuke pool? Meanwhile, the modern world has man-portable weaponry that'll take down tanks, and you're burning gems for each minion. You're not taking over a country with those things unless you're doing something very mass-murdery, like making a Wight, Rebuking it under your control, and then setting it loose on a population so that you can control the spawn indirectly... and that's the sort of infection that would quite possibly draw nuclear fire to cauterize (and it's also very, very fragile, as you've got 'keystone' wights all over the place that - if they die - remove your control of the spawn underneath them). Even if you do control a small country that way... what have you gotten, really, that a Wizard couldn't have picked up at 7th via a few castings of Dominate Person on an existing ruler?

In regards to the Dread Necro, you have dissuaded me from considering it. In regards to Artificer, you can get unlimited use 9th level Wizard AND Cleric AND Druid spells for under 100k gp, taking under 4k XP to make the item, using only the cost reduction of alignment and class restricting the custom item. This is reachable with startling ease, especially if you are cheesing to get useable trade goods before dismantling your magic items for XP. That's before any feats to reduce the cost, of which just one cuts off over 20k gp from the final cost. You get a LOT of feats freed from crafting, so you could get to having a truly crazy amount of items. And the greatest advantage of Artificer is the scraping, you waste literally no crafting XP on your items and can get all the crafting XP you need for unlimited Wish that anyone can use just from leveling. I'll admit, it's mostly a style choice, as the feel of being a gadget user is something good. Will add the cost of unlimited Wish-for-crafting-XP later

[Jack_Simth]

In regards to the Dread Necro, you have dissuaded me from considering it. In regards to Artificer, you can get unlimited use 9th level Wizard AND Cleric AND Druid spells for under 100k gp, taking under 4k XP to make the item, using only the cost reduction of alignment and class restricting the custom item. This is reachable with startling ease, especially if you are cheesing to get useable trade goods before dismantling your magic items for XP. That's before any feats to reduce the cost, of which just one cuts off over 20k gp from the final cost. You get a LOT of feats freed from crafting, so you could get to having a truly crazy amount of items. And the greatest advantage of Artificer is the scraping, you waste literally no crafting XP on your items and can get all the crafting XP you need for unlimited Wish that anyone can use just from leveling. I'll admit, it's mostly a style choice, as the feel of being a gadget user is something good. Will add the cost of unlimited Wish-for-crafting-XP later
Ah, that age-old custom magic items bit. Heh. You may wish to re-read the section. It's availability is far from certain. It comes from the DMG, and is not really primarily intended for player use. The table where you're getting most your costs is titled "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values". The table is referred to as "guidelines" in the text, and you've even got "Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth" in there. When you add restrictions to something you make for your use that never really apply to you... it's hardly a restriction, and doesn't affect the items "actual worth" very much, does it? If you're going to play that loose with the rules, why not just use DMG pages 174-175 to make up your own class wholesale and play a Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) or something?

[digiman619]

Monk of the Four Winds 20. Enjoy mortality, suckers!

As a side thought, I'll take Master Craftsman if I want any magic stuff.

I'm sure I can find uses for a Robe of Blending or a Crystal Ball...

[Jack_Simth]

As a side thought, I'll take Master Craftsman if I want any magic stuff.

I'm sure I can find uses for a Robe of Blending or a Crystal Ball...

A couple of notes on that...
1) It's a Su ability, and there's a few ways to keep that from working.
2) It's as the spell Reincarnate, and there's a few ways to keep that from working.
3) There's other ways to get similar things (Reincarnated Druid, a few of the Oracle Mystery Capstones, Contingent spells, probably a few other methods)
4) If you're going with the Monk of the Four Winds capstone... how do you deal with the negative levels from Reincarnate?

[digiman619]

A couple of notes on that...
1) It's a Su ability, and there's a few ways to keep that from working.
2) It's as the spell Reincarnate, and there's a few ways to keep that from working.
3) There's other ways to get similar things (Reincarnated Druid, a few of the Oracle Mystery Capstones, Contingent spells, probably a few other methods)
4) If you're going with the Monk of the Four Winds capstone... how do you deal with the negative levels from Reincarnate?

The important but to remember about this thesis is that I don't have to go adventuring to do this; by picking a lower tier class, I don't have to worry about those that will use these powers to alter the world; I'll be beneath their notice. I can just disappear int the masses of humanity and be left alone. Until and unless I can finagle Divine Rank 0, it'll have to do. As for the negative level, I'll have to look through my supplements, but I'm sure there's a Wondrous item that can remove it.

[Morphic tide]

Ah, that age-old custom magic items bit. Heh. You may wish to re-read the section. It's availability is far from certain. It comes from the DMG, and is not really primarily intended for player use. The table where you're getting most your costs is titled "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values". The table is referred to as "guidelines" in the text, and you've even got "Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth" in there. When you add restrictions to something you make for your use that never really apply to you... it's hardly a restriction, and doesn't affect the items "actual worth" very much, does it? If you're going to play that loose with the rules, why not just use DMG pages 174-175 to make up your own class wholesale and play a Lightning Warrior (http://www.myth-weavers.com/wiki/index.php/Lightning_Warrior) or something?

Well, this thread is about raw crunch, although perhaps not RAW crunch. The custom items is crunch that exists and sees use by players mid-session in some sane games as they mostly just let you trade gp and XP for power, not that big a deal, especially as the upper end stuff is nigh-unmakeable with the costs involved. And the rules see use quite frequently, as scrolls are somewhat frequently made in-game, although getting items for 34.3% the base price for no real downside on Paladins(They have both alignments locked anyway) is rather crazy. The alignment and class restrictions don't need to actually come into play if we are talking RAW, which the use of ALL PF and 3.5 content suggests is the case

[Wildstag]

Let's see....

Str: 12
Dex: 8
Con: 10
Int: 9
Wis: 13
Cha: 11

I'd have to go Barb1/Wild-shape-Ranger4/Warshaper5/MasterofManyForms10

I'm 22 now, so I'd have to wait until I'm 42, but by then I'm able to turn into any monster I am "familiar" with, and should be able to just turn into a Gargantuan Dragon for some 14 hours per day, 14 times per day. I'd be immune to critical hits and have Fast Healing 2.

I wouldn't have to worry too much about a low stat in any way.

The only issue is that I'd like to be able to get an alternate form or something like that but eh, it wouldn't really be necessary. I'd also have to take Vow of Poverty, but I'd only take Sacred Vow at level 1, and save VoP for later (after I've gained some levels). I know VoP is generally better at low levels, but you really need to be alive for VoP to really help, so I'd need some hit die first.

[Firebug]

Something like:
Wizard 1-5/Ultimate Magus(Wiz/Asn) 1-10/Jade Phoenix Mage(Wiz) 2-6 // Ranger 1/Spellthief 1-4/Assassin 1/Unseen Seer(Asn) 1-2/Abjurant Champion(ST) 1-4/Swordsage 1/Abjurant Champion(ST) 5/Jade Phoenix Mage(Wiz) 1/Spellthief 5-9.

Assuming you are allowed gestalt, prestige on both sides and Ultimate Magus/Jade Phoenix Mage is allowed in Gestalt, non-fractional BAB/Saves.
19 BAB, 13/13/23 F/R/W, 7.1 average HD and can cast in light armor no ASF, 5.6 average Skill Points, Spell Progression: 19 wizard, 14 spellthief, 9 assassin. CL 59 for all three classes. 13th level Intiator, and 24d6 sneak attack.

PAO into a Half-Celestial/Half-Dragon/Fey-ri or something with the ability to appear like a normal human.

What would be the spell research requirements for the Wall of Iron to instead be Wall of Gold?

Not that I have given it any thought or anything.

[Necromancy]

Non elite array? If you say so :-p

People are dreaming kind of small. You don't need combat skills. Working a hospital or winning in casinos? Really? You're getting level 20 in a class, think epic level power.

I don't think revealing your powers to the world is wise either. Powerful or not, nobody wants a giant bullseye on their head.

This all being said, I think Psion is the real choice. World domination within your grasp, immortality, secrecy, etc. All with a ever increasing feat list after level 20 (more powers?) Professor X wishes he was you.

[Incanur]

Are Tippyverse-style beneficial "traps" a possibility? If so, I'd have to go wizard, despite the difficult finding some components and whatnot.

I would choose dwoemerkeeper for that supernatural spell goodness, but I can't be beholden to any deity unless there's a deity of transhumanism that has the ultimate goal of bringing everybody else up to its level.

[Jack_Simth]

People are dreaming kind of small. You don't need combat skills. Working a hospital or winning in casinos? Really? You're getting level 20 in a class, think epic level power. Ah, but the ones you're poking fun at are mostly strategies for the first few years of the scenario. You're not getting those 20 levels all at once in this game. While yes, there's some fun things you can do as, say, a level 2 Wizard ... most 1st level spells & powers aren't overly impressive compared to, say, a modern rifle in the hands of a man who's been trained properly in its use. You're not going to be raiding Fort Knox or the diamond exchange for three or four years at least... but you might make an easy living cheating at slots, and getting paid to heal people is a very attractive idea for those who both want money and want to help people along the way.
Are Tippyverse-style beneficial "traps" a possibility? If so, I'd have to go wizard, despite the difficult finding some components and whatnot.

I would choose dwoemerkeeper for that supernatural spell goodness, but I can't be beholden to any deity unless there's a deity of transhumanism that has the ultimate goal of bringing everybody else up to its level.Actually, many of the better spells - at least initially - for improving people's lives are on Cleric list. Disease is a much, much bigger killer than... well, pretty much anything else in modern times, really.

[Incanur]

Actually, many of the better spells - at least initially - for improving people's lives are on Cleric list. Disease is a much, much bigger killer than... well, pretty much anything else in modern times, really.

Yep, but I can't be serving some deity when I'm pursuing transhumanism. Deities typically frown on trying to give all sentient beings the option to become like gods. (I also prefer intelligence to wisdom, but that's a minor consideration.)

If I could worship transhumanist ideals or some such, then I'd go cleric dwoemerkeeper for supernatural spell nonsense.

Alternatively, an ur-priest build has potential, unless I have to do things I consider evil to qualify for the class.

[Jack_Simth]

Yep, but I can't be serving some deity when I'm pursuing transhumanism. Deities typically frown on trying to give all sentient beings the option to become like gods. (I also prefer intelligence to wisdom, but that's a minor consideration.)Try the Archivist, Heroes of Horror, on for size. Explicitly no tie to a deity, and Int-based divine casting.

[GrayDeath]

SInce my reals tats get rearranged (and somewhat, though to be honest not much, nerfed) and I am not aiming for unlimited Power, or cheesy exploits, I`d say: Sorcerer Dragon Disciple.
Why? Cool, Stat Boosts, Wings, Breath Weapons, and still good enough at magic to shake the world up a wee bit if I wanted to.
So what if I lose lvl 9 Spells (talking PF Version here), I am a freaking Dragon (and can hide it if I want)!
The Fun!


In Any Case my Attribute Split would be:
Str 9, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 13.

Alternatively Warlock. With the Attributes the Class rocks quite a lot without being in any way in need of cheese. Maybe add Noble Scion if the need to rule picks up in the later years. ;)

[Incanur]

Explicitly no tie to a deity, and Int-based divine casting.

Oh yeah, I forgot about archivist! That's probably the best option, despite the lack of scrolls and such to learn additional spells from in this world. As long as I can spend XP to make Tippyverse-type beneficial traps, I should be good to go.

[McStabbington]

. . . If I take the nerf that comes from the non-elite array, I'll have a rather devil of a time getting ninth-level spells. The only way I do it is with age modifiers.

That being said, I'm going straight diviner with a prohibited school of evocation. Give me divination with a smattering of enchantment and illusion magic and no one who can match, and I can conquer the bloody world. And you can bet I am going to take over the world and shatter those who deserve it. In a way, it's very, very good that this will never come to pass, because I am actually interested in giving people exactly what they deserve.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I have a build that I made specifically for this. I wanted to see how much power I could amass using nothing but dips, and as it turns out, you can get basically all of it. All the power, yes. Because as far as I'm concerned, if I'm getting access to neat tricks, I might as well get all the neat tricks. It's also entirely possible to make yourself gestalt+++ via fusion and astral seed, so there's really no reason not to be. So that means illithid savant and legacy champion (advancing illithid savant) on the other side.

And there's no point in protecting player balance within a party, so why stay within the realms of Practical Optimization? Go wild on illithid savant and T0 casting (preferably with as few levels invested as possible to save those levels for other things, so it's ML-boosted ardent all the way).

Use illithid savant to eat a dragon ascendant for deific immortality and the tarrasque for un-overcome-able regeneration. Add in a spellblade each for miracle, wish, and reality revision for can't-die-no-not-even-then, and toss on beastland ferocity to prevent being knocked out when below 0.

If you have issues with eating brains, note that nothing about the illithid savant says that you must restrict it to ONLY eating brains to get the benefit, or that the "victim" has to die. Just grab the swallow whole ability through shapeshifting and swallow 'em whole. (Hoard gullet and polymorph solve the problem of how they're getting out.)

Also, refluffing is always an option in-game, so I'm taking the following and running wild with fluff.


Male Lvl 21 CG Refluffed Human-Blooded, Prismatic Dragonwrought, Wyrm of War, Arctic Kobold (humanoid, dragon [human, reptilian]), deific rank 0 (body rebuilt to be native to the Outlands, if necessary)

Gestalt Side 1: Martial, poison use rogue 1/factotum 3/convert spell to power, erudite psion 1/martial, chaos, decisive strike, bane of the clockwork monk 2/solitary hunter, arcane hunter ranger 1/totemist 1/soulbound psywar 2/divine mind 1/substitute powers ardent 1 (conflict/magic mantles)/abrupt jaunt, spell point, combat, conjuror wizard 1/spell point cleric of magic (ie Mystra) 1 (rune/good domains)/marshal 1/psi, trickster psithief (psionic spellthief) 1/lurk 1/crusader 1/warblade 1/swordsage 1

Gestalt Side 2: Spell point, psionic artificer 4/dashing step, city brawler, whirling frenzy, spirit lion totem barbarian 1/psi chameleon 1/illithid savant 9/legacy champion 6

I definitely don't want to rule the world -- what's the point, when I can get everything I want on my own, anyway? -- but I do want to encourage humanity to better itself. Taking care of some of humanity's more glaring problems would be trivial with magic, and a lot of the rest would be a non-issue when you have magic and millions of people to work on them.

So, yeah. That's what I'd do.

Also, are we restricted to 1 level per year, or can we level up faster than that if we can manage it? Because I could be epic by the end of the first week, if I truly wanted to be, though it'd require starting out as a different build and and doing some retraining to the above.

[ayvango]

I'm not planning of everyday gest, so prepared classes are more favourable than spontaneus. I always have extra day to prepare and its wide array of spells is more important.

So I will go for obvious road for spell diversity. 1Lvl wizard (Precocious Apprentice, eschew materials). Take Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (lose familiar & Scribe Scroll in favour of spellbookless memorizing). 3Lvl in Druid (supernatural spell). Take elemental companion ACF (air elemental). It always good to have something to talk with and elemental companion is easier to keep in a flat than an animal. 4Lvl Mystic Theurge(access luck domain spells from feat). Needed to cast later miracle spell and therefore attain access to all cleric spells of 1st-8th level. 10Llv in Arcane Hierophant. All needed feats are already taken. There is no need to optimise for battle, so may take flavour feats. On first estimation: Obtain Familiar and Improve Familiar because two familiars (first is familiar-like feature from Arcane Hierophant and second from the feat) is better then one. Coure eladrin is good choice. Reserve feat for summoning elementals. Some item creation feat. And last 2 levels I would put into Mystic Theurge. At that point I have arcane wizard caster level 17 and druid caster level 19.

But frankly speaking I have zero changes to live to 20th level. At 15th level many of 6 billions lunatics would attain access to the PAO spell. Little of them would manage their curiosity, and most of them eventually would commence experiments with antimatter and compact black holes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

<snip>Google translator really needs to step up its game.

[Tiri]

Google translator really needs to step up its game.

It wasn't that bad. I found it mostly comprehensible.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It wasn't that bad. I found it mostly comprehensible.Yes, I've definitely seen worse -- including "native" speakers (if you could call them that, sheesh).

[ayvango]

Well, I learned English with software and programming documentation. Then added a few rulebooks. The blunder is that now I have mostly read-only skills.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, I learned English with software and programming documentation. Then added a few rulebooks. The blunder is that now I have mostly read-only skills.You write better than some native-speakers I know, which says a lot about A.) how well you did on learning, and B.) the quality of the American "educational" system.

[Seward]

Something that gets Cure Disease as soon as possible. Cleric or Druid.

If Playing 3.5, then Ruatha 3 levels to get Elven lifespan.

Think that about covers it. I think I'd rather do stuff for nature than be a sock-puppet for a deity, so probably Druid. Although the thought of my Greyhound/Border Collie mix as an animal companion is pretty scary. On the other hand I could use speak with animals to try to explain why it is bad to want to eat my neighbor's cats, but it's ok to want to eat pidgeons.

[Clistenes]

Something that gets Cure Disease as soon as possible. Cleric or Druid.

If Playing 3.5, then Ruatha 3 levels to get Elven lifespan.

Think that about covers it. I think I'd rather do stuff for nature than be a sock-puppet for a deity, so probably Druid. Although the thought of my Greyhound/Border Collie mix as an animal companion is pretty scary. On the other hand I could use speak with animals to try to explain why it is bad to want to eat my neighbor's cats, but it's ok to want to eat pidgeons.

I think I would rather not take a level of anything that allowed me to understand my pets. It would break my heart to discover that they are *******s just like humans. Don't want to take that risk...

My old poodle/husky mix (he looked like a half-sized husky) never attacked anything except rats. He never bit anybody, never attacked another pet (well, except chinchillas, which looked a lot like rats to him), but was a vicious rat-killer. I think it is because our previous dog was an old hunting dog who used to catch rats and bring them home, so our poodle/husky mix learned as a puppy that it was OK to kill rats...

[Judge_Worm]

Because I could be epic by the end of the first week

I would like to know how in a world with no magic items, or terrible beasties, or planar entity (maybe a different cosmology from the Great Wheel, or perhaps none at all), or other ready made sources of XP.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I would like to know how in a world with no magic items, or terrible beasties, or planar entity (maybe a different cosmology from the Great Wheel, or perhaps none at all), or other ready made sources of XP.Become a 1st level human wizard. At 1st level, you have one feat for being human, one pre-selected bonus feat for being a wizard, one feat for being 1st level, and two feats for having flaws.

Now look at Precocious Apprentice (ray of stupidity), Sanctum Spell, Forceful Magic, Invisible Spell, and Scribe Scroll. Now consider that you can scribe scrolls of level 0 rays of stupidity, which take out Int 1 and 2 animals without fail in a single shot, so long as you hit their (quite low) ranged touch ACs. Now look at the CRs for elephants and various whales. You should be able to crank up your level quite quickly by crafting and using scrolls (adding additional metamagic once you hit level 3+) and your regular spell slots to go on a safari and go elephant "hunting."

That should get you up to level 11 very, very quickly.

After that, planar bind a genie and wish for a thought bottle, or level up to 13 and craft one yourself. Cast the curse of lycanthropy spell on yourself to give yourself lycanthropy with the highest number of animal HD you can. Now store your new XP total in the thought bottle, proceed to cure your lycanthropy, and restore your XP total. Repeat a couple of times until you break into epic. Or you can use the old negative level + greater restoration trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?212408-Infinite-free-XP-Smooch-a-Succubus) for resetting XP totals to do something similar.

Now retrain to your preferred build.

The most time consuming part of all of it is the crafting, but the scrolls shouldn't take more than a day or two, and they're really cheap. The biggest stumbling block will be crafting the thought bottle if you can't planar bind a genie, in which case the greater restoration trick will be much faster. You'll need to level up to, say, wizard 1/cleric 13 (or lower) to make it work without Extra Spell or domain wizard, but access to greater restoration isn't that difficult.

Of course, access to greater restoration is MUCH faster with tricks like using Versatile Spellcaster to grab higher level spells earlier; even better if you can use V.S., Heighten, Extra Slot, Extra Spell and retraining to get much higher levels spells. Miracle is useful for so many things at low level, after all.

[Segev]

I think anything planning on exploiting XP gain mechanics is violating the spirit and letter of this particular thought experiment, wherein you gain one level per year.

Honestly, though, living in the real world, a lot of the best stuff to have for day-to-day life is available at first level. Unseen servant, mending, cure light wounds, goodberry, prestidigitation... regardless of which primary casting class you choose, you have utility spells that make your life so much easier than that of normal people. And, with some of them, you could really make quite a fortune. Imagine cure light wounds being available at sporting events. 1-3 castings would probably be able to fix a twisted knee right up. (Regeneration is necessary for amputations, but I think most football, for example, injuries count as hp.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Oh, and it would probably be best to assume that we have access to everything a D&D character would have access to, aside from NPC services or magic on the Material Plane; otherwise, we can't make any assumptions at all about anything. The Great Wheel needs to exist, otherwise there are a lot of potential problems we'll have to take into account that will mess up quite a large number of characters.

It's fine if there's no magic on the Material Plane in the beginning, other than ourselves, but messing with the cosmology and the available options beyond that limits a lot of potential options for us. Warlocks, for instance, couldn't exist, because there are no outsiders or fey to make pacts with. Binders could likewise not function at all. No summonings, no metacreativity powers, no teleportation, no [creation] powers, randomly banned energy-based abilities (as lots of them draw from [para]elemental planes), no positive or negative energy, and so on. So let's say a low-to-no-magic Material in the center of an otherwise standard Great Wheel, but the Material is not a dead magic zone. Otherwise, it's a pain to try to find something that works properly outside of (some) mundane classes.

And if XP doesn't exist, that likewise messes up a lot of things, as well.

[Segev]

Oh, and it would probably be best to assume that we have access to everything a D&D character would have access to, aside from NPC services or magic on the Material Plane; otherwise, we can't make any assumptions at all about anything. The Great Wheel needs to exist, otherwise there are a lot of potential problems we'll have to take into account that will mess up quite a large number of characters.

It's fine if there's no magic on the Material Plane in the beginning, other than ourselves, but messing with the cosmology and the available options beyond that limits a lot of potential options for us. Warlocks, for instance, couldn't exist, because there are no outsiders or fey to make pacts with. Binders could likewise not function at all. No summonings, no metacreativity powers, no teleportation, no [creation] powers, randomly banned energy-based abilities (as lots of them draw from [para]elemental planes, no positive or negative energy, and so on. So let's say a low-to-no-magic Material in the center of an otherwise standard Great Wheel, but the Material is not a dead magic zone. Otherwise, it's a pain to try to find something that works properly outside of (some) mundane classes.

And if XP doesn't exist, that likewise messes up a lot of things, as well.
Yeah, I'd suggest that the assumption should be that all class features, spells, etc. operate as specified. Anything they presume can be accessed can be, at least insofar as they import and export them or tap them for power.

[Lost Demiurge]

Sorry, I'm already a 5th level cosmic monarch. :D

That's a slow-burning class. Levels once every decade or so. Worth it when it does, though...

[Winter_Wolf]

I'm a simple man of simple tastes; either druid to 20 or ranger 20 and at level one I'm already primed to get my 6-pack guiding license. Druid would be more convenient probably, just in terms of earlier access to healing and cure spells and then immunities. The animal companions would be a little tricky because hunters and guns are a real thing. As a druid it'd be easier to pass myself off as a loony hermit to keep the local vandals the hell away from my homestead.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Sorry, I'm already a 5th level cosmic monarch. :D

That's a slow-burning class. Levels once every decade or so. Worth it when it does, though...Never heard of it. What is it, and where can I find it?

[Halinn]

I'll be looking at something simple too.

I'll be doing a PF char, since I want cantrips all day long. Also, getting +2 to a stat is nice.
Human Sorcerer 20, with the Imperious bloodline means that I'll eventually stop aging, and I get some neat bonuses along the way. As a bonus, with PF spells, I can eventually use Greater Create Demiplane along with Interplanetary Teleport to set up a galaxy-wide teleport hub.

Now, spells will be a bit limited as a sorcerer, but I'm still getting a bunch extra from the human favored class bonus. And besides, I'm not particularly looking to pick up combat spells, so the ~50 spells I'm ending up with should be fine, even if I'll lament only getting 3 9th level spells (Wish, Greater Create Demiplane and Interplanetary Teleport, if you're curious about what I'd choose)

For skills, Spellcraft, Bluff, Diplomacy and Perform (Oratory) should serve well. The first 3 levels, where I'm not grabbing extra spells from the FCB, I'd pick up 3 ranks in Linguistics.

I'd obviously be crafting a lot, as soon as I can start using the Blood Money + Fabricate trick