Starting a new game as a Bladesinger tonight, need help finalising build

[Celeden]

So I've been allowed to create a variant human Bladesinger who I'm planning to play mostly in melee. I know that, no matter how good my AC might get, I won't have that much HP making me liable to blow up as soon as something actually does hit me.

So I dumped both CHA and STR taking 8 16 14 16 10 8 after racials planning to take Tough as my bonus feat to give me at least somewhat competetive health. However, it was suggested to me that taking Mobile with the same array could be effective with hit and run tactics.

In practice, which is going to be more survivable?

[Corran]

You can replicate the most important effect of mobile by expeditious retreat (1st level concentraion spell), or by taking 2 levels in rogue (it comes really handy later, it delays your spell progression but it is a really good choice if you wnt to fight in melee). So I suggest not taking mobile, and to consider a level 2 rogue dip.

[Klorox]

So I've been allowed to create a variant human Bladesinger who I'm planning to play mostly in melee. I know that, no matter how good my AC might get, I won't have that much HP making me liable to blow up as soon as something actually does hit me.

So I dumped both CHA and STR taking 8 16 14 16 10 8 after racials planning to take Tough as my bonus feat to give me at least somewhat competetive health. However, it was suggested to me that taking Mobile with the same array could be effective with hit and run tactics.

In practice, which is going to be more survivable?

I'm not sure which is better, but you might want to bump that CON to 15 and drop your WIS to 8. Then you can take resilient CON as your feat, greatly helping with concentration checks and hit points.

JMO.

[Celeden]

You can replicate the most important effect of mobile by expeditious retreat (1st level concentraion spell), or by taking 2 levels in rogue (it comes really handy later, it delays your spell progression but it is a really good choice if you wnt to fight in melee). So I suggest not taking mobile, and to consider a level 2 rogue dip.

That's true, I hadn't considered Expedious Retreat. I'm not sure if I'll have time to build rogue but I'll definitely keep that option open.

[Celeden]

I'm not sure which is better, but you might want to bump that CON to 15 and drop your WIS to 8. Then you can take resilient CON as your feat, greatly helping with concentration checks and hit points.

JMO.

That is really tempting, but three dump stats... I'm not sure how I'd roleplay that 8 16 16 16 8 8 character :P

[Nicodiemus]

Eventually you might want to 3dip that rogue to get swashbuckler. That gives you the mobile feature that ignores AoO on anyone you attack plus SA damage almost every round and an initiative boost. I'm 6BS/ 3SB and loving it. Be careful about spell selection. Like: I chose mirror image over blur because I usually save my concentration for something else.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

That is really tempting, but three dump stats... I'm not sure how I'd roleplay that 8 16 16 16 8 8 character :P

10 is average, 8 is slightly below average. Just play as a normal person of that race when it comes to str, wis, and cha.

[coredump]

You can replicate the most important effect of mobile by expeditious retreat (1st level concentraion spell), or by taking 2 levels in rogue (it comes really handy later, it delays your spell progression but it is a really good choice if you wnt to fight in melee). So I suggest not taking mobile, and to consider a level 2 rogue dip.When the plan is 'hit and run', I think the most important part of that feat is the "no OAs' part....

[Rusvul]

The thing about Wizard is that you can dump basically whatever you like. In 5e, all you need is a high INT and at least a middling CON. Everything else is more-or-less nonessential. A Bladesinger should probably have a high Strength or Dex, (Preferably Dex for the AC) but past that... Everything else is mechanically not that important.

In terms of roleplaying a 8/8/8 character, it isn't that bad. A -1 isn't all that significant, you could explain that away with some personality quirk that inhibits descision-making or social interaction. As an example, I play a haughty and arrogant wizard. Everything he says is subtly condescending, (8 CHA) so people don't like him too much, as polite as he may be. He is also arrogant and tends to bite off more than he can chew. (8 WIS.)

So yes, I would second 15 CON and Resiliency. CON saves are important, especially for a Bladesinger. Alternately, you could take your first level as a Fighter, bump up Strength instead of Dex, and wear heavy armor. That does come at the expense of your DEX and WIS saves, though, so maybe that's not too great.

[Corran]

When the plan is 'hit and run', I think the most important part of that feat is the "no OAs' part....
Yeah, I thought the bonus action allowed you to disengage, my bad. That makes a level 2 rogue dip even more important.

[Nicodiemus]

The thing about Wizard is that you can dump basically whatever you like. In 5e, all you need is a high INT and at least a middling CON. Everything else is more-or-less nonessential. A Bladesinger should probably have a high Strength or Dex, (Preferably Dex for the AC) but past that... Everything else is mechanically not that important.

In terms of roleplaying a 8/8/8 character, it isn't that bad. A -1 isn't all that significant, you could explain that away with some personality quirk that inhibits descision-making or social interaction. As an example, I play a haughty and arrogant wizard. Everything he says is subtly condescending, (8 CHA) so people don't like him too much, as polite as he may be. He is also arrogant and tends to bite off more than he can chew. (8 WIS.)

So yes, I would second 15 CON and Resiliency. CON saves are important, especially for a Bladesinger. Alternately, you could take your first level as a Fighter, bump up Strength instead of Dex, and wear heavy armor. That does come at the expense of your DEX and WIS saves, though, so maybe that's not too great.

Unfortunately, you can't use Bladesong in anything but light armor, so a fighter dip isn't as useful. Though a 2 dip for action surge would be nice, it really starts to dilute the character as now you've lost 9th level spells with a 2 dip rogue/2 dip fighter

[Klorox]

That is really tempting, but three dump stats... I'm not sure how I'd roleplay that 8 16 16 16 8 8 character :P

Well, you don't need to RP low STR. Low WIS/high INT is the absent minded professor, and low CHA means he likes giving pop quizzes. :P

[miburo]

Another option: Drop the Con to 13, bring Wis to 10, and use Resilience: Con as your feat (for Con saves and to get Con back to 14). In case you don't want too many dump stats.

[joaber]

Unfortunately, you can't use Bladesong in anything but light armor, so a fighter dip isn't as useful. Though a 2 dip for action surge would be nice, it really starts to dilute the character as now you've lost 9th level spells with a 2 dip rogue/2 dip fighter

well, you can get +1 to AC in fighting style or +2 to damage, a bonus action heal, prof with all weapons including hand crossbow that will deal more damage than your cantrips and you don't need to be in melee anymore if you want, and if you start as fighter Con saves and more 4 HP.

[BladeWing81]

The bladesinger can only blade sing twice? they don't get more charges? only twice before a short rest?
Also, Greenflame blade works with song of victory right?
So at lvl 14 when you get song of victory you cast greenflame blade with a rapier
on an enemy that enemy gets:
3d8 + Dex + int(from song of victory)
and if there's an additional creature at 5 feet from you that one gets:
2d8 + Dex + int(from song of victory) + int(from greenflame blade).

[Nicodiemus]

@joaber- the hand crossbow deals more damage than a 1d10 firebolt? Plus once your cantrips scale, weapons become pointless for anything but delivering spellstack melee punishment

[eastmabl]

I'd be wary of dumping Wis on a caster. Only having a +1 on a saving throw that you're proficient in can be pretty problematic - especially considering what failed Wis saving throws can do to you.

[joaber]

@joaber- the hand crossbow deals more damage than a 1d10 firebolt? Plus once your cantrips scale, weapons become pointless for anything but delivering spellstack melee punishment

1d6+3 is more than 1d10 without a crit. At level 6 bladesinger get the extra attack. At that level, a bladesinger can be in melee without the risk of die in 1 attack, than they really don't need the hand crossbow or the firebolt. But they didn't lose a cantrip slot with firebolt.

[BladeWing81]

a pure Bladesinger with 20 Dex could only get 18 AC Max right? after that a warrior dip could grant him 19 with defensive stance (bladesong doesn't allow shields). What's the top AC a bladesinger could get without magic items?

[joaber]

a pure Bladesinger with 20 Dex could only get 18 AC Max right? after that a warrior dip could grant him 19 with defensive stance (bladesong doesn't allow shields). What's the top AC a bladesinger could get without magic items?

with bladesong you and Int to your AC and you can do that twice per short rest, so you blandsong a lot.

Max int and dex, get mariner fighting style, get dual wilder and mage armor and now you have 25 AC, using shield spell 30.

ok, you can't reach all that with point buy, but will be close.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

with bladesong you and Int to your AC and you can do that twice per short rest, so you blandsong a lot.

Max int and dex, get mariner fighting style, get dual wilder and mage armor and now you have 25 AC, using shield spell 30.

You could pick up defensive duelist for +6 AC at higher levels instead of using shield.

[joaber]

You could pick up defensive duelist for +6 AC at higher levels instead of using shield.

true, but this cost 1 more ASI/Feat, it's only for 1 attack, not any until your turn and at lvl 18, shield is free :)

[bid]

Remember that you can do 2 attacks of 1d8 + Dex + Int after level 14. That rapier's ~ 25 damage is better than a 17th cantrip doing 4d10 ~ 22 damage.

If you don't have a second target, 11th GFB +2d8 is somewhat less than the extra attack.
If you don't have mobile, 11th BB +2d8 is somewhat less than the extra attack.

You've hit the only case where tough is ok. Since you have low Con and low HD, you go from 6 to 8 hp per level. Mobile is definitely better and you can always use a shortbow or light crossbow when not dancing.

Dipping (or starting) fighter for mariner or duel style is less painful with scag's GFB/BB. An extra 4 hp at level 1 is nice, careful with Wis save though.

[djreynolds]

You know what is awesome, spells. You are a caster with two attacks. You are a caster, blight is 8d8 of necrotic damage. You have access to as many spells as you can grab. Use your bladesong when needed, but your party needs your spells far more than your rapier.

And grab resilient con over toughness, if you plan to be in melee, you will need it. Defensive duelist is expensive for a caster with 5 feats who must max out dex and int.