Lore bard dipping advice

[dread05]

So, the last level of the bard is terrible. Dipping seems the obvious solution but I have my concerns.

Cleric (life or knowledge) seem to be good since they let you keep your spellslots. Couple of levels in fey warlock also seem fine for EB and a couple invocations. Three levels in sorcerer are also recomended for meta magic (hightended and quickend spells).

Now for the cons of each choise. cleric spells are based on wisdom, and also require the character to become pious for some reason, or even more to be picked from a deity as a cleric. Warlock looses me 2 spell slots a 6th and a 7th. Sorcerer origins either dont fit with the lore bard or are too difficult to fluf: you cant just wake up one day and say, HEY I AM A DRAGON NOW :P. Given we are 3 lvl already.

[Citan]

So, the last level of the bard is terrible. Dipping seems the obvious solution but I have my concerns.

Cleric (life or knowledge) seem to be good since they let you keep your spellslots. Couple of levels in fey warlock also seem fine for EB and a couple invocations. Three levels in sorcerer are also recomended for meta magic (hightended and quickend spells).

Now for the cons of each choise. cleric spells are based on wisdom, and also require the character to become pious for some reason, or even more to be picked from a deity as a cleric. Warlock looses me 2 spell slots a 6th and a 7th. Sorcerer origins either dont fit with the lore bard or are too difficult to fluf: you cant just wake up one day and say, HEY I AM A DRAGON NOW :P. Given we are 3 lvl already.
Hi!
It's hard to provide proper suggestions without any indication on your character concept and what you fancy to do in a party.
Quick overview though:
Rogue 2 (Swash 3): extra expertise and Cunning Action, and initiative+mobility if you like to be the first to act and go into melee often.
Fighter 1: only if you plan on going Valor Bard, for Fighting Style and proficiencies.
Barb: probably not a good idea unless you have a niche build in mind.
Ranger: consider a 2-level only if you plan on being a Ranged Valor Bard (get Archery, Hunter's mark and Absorb Elements) who focuses on dealing damage.
Paladin: two or three levels are great if you plan on being a Valor Bard, either ranged (Devotion) or melee (Vengeance).
Druid: Moon Druid 2 could be a pretty good choice if you like the Wildshape abilities. In combat, it will stay situationnally useful for a few levels, but it's first for RP capabilities that it should be chosen. If you don't like Wild Shape it's a no-go (you also get nice spells, but it's not worth dipping just for that).
Cleric: Life is always good if you're the party healer, especially since the heal bonus don't rely on WIS, and you also get Guidance and Bless.
Sorcerer: you'd need at least 3 levels to get Metamagic, and at least lvl 5-6 to enjoy it a minimum (MP being a long-rest resource). So not a good choice if you want to be a "true" spellcaster (up to 9nth level).
Warlock: grabbing 2 or 3 levels will bring much bang for your bucks: either Tome (to get nice cantrips and some rituals) or Chain (resistant familiar!) will be great, and you have a pretty good choice of Invocations and spells to complement your Bard features.
Wizard: Abjuration Wizard for the shield and Divination Wizard for the dice swap (my favorite ;) are solid choices, also bringing many useful lvl 1 (and potentially lvl2) spells that you couldn't get access to otherwise.

TL;DR?
1-level dip: Life Cleric for a healer, Fighter 1 for a Valor Bard.
2-level dip: Rogue for skills and mobility, Moon Druid for Wild Shape, Divination Wizard for dice swap, Warlock for Agonizing Repelling Blast.
3-level dip: Warlock Tome (cantrips&rituals) / Chain (magic resistance), Swashbuckler Rogue (swiftness), Paladin Devotion (ranged boost) / Vengeance (melee damage), Divination Wizard (dice swap & more utility).
4+ level: bring an original character concept first and we'll think about it. :smallwink:

[Arkhios]

So, the last level of the bard is terrible. Dipping seems the obvious solution but I have my concerns.

Cleric (life or knowledge) seem to be good since they let you keep your spellslots. Couple of levels in fey warlock also seem fine for EB and a couple invocations. Three levels in sorcerer are also recomended for meta magic (hightended and quickend spells).

Now for the cons of each choise. cleric spells are based on wisdom, and also require the character to become pious for some reason, or even more to be picked from a deity as a cleric. Warlock looses me 2 spell slots a 6th and a 7th. Sorcerer origins either dont fit with the lore bard or are too difficult to fluf: you cant just wake up one day and say, HEY I AM A DRAGON NOW :P. Given we are 3 lvl already.

Given that you are at 3rd level, I would recommend staying bard for another 2 levels at least before going into another class (Bards get the Font of Inspiration at 5th level, which is very nice). Or at the very least 1 more level so you get your first Ability Score Increase. Since you're Lore bard (deduction from the topic), you might want to wait for 6th level as well, for those extra spells from ANY list.

Anyhow.... opinions about your options, or rather, the issues you're having with them thematically. Assuming you have the requisite minimum of 13 in Wisdom, a Cleric with Life domain would grant you Disciple of Life feature, which works with all of your spells, not just those you prepared as a cleric. If you already knew Cure Wounds from bard, then "learning" it again from Life Domain doesn't force you to use that one. You can still cast it from bard's list (with Charisma no less!) and be a very nice healer for your group. Sudden burst of piety is easy to explain. Your character may have been contemplating about his or her purpose in the world, and found that purpose from the teachings of a deity. Blessings of Knowledge from Knowledge Domain are also very thematically fitting for a bard. It's reasonable that a bard in a medieval-esque world worships, even if only with lipservice, a deity of knowledge, especially a Bard in the College of Lore. Again, same principles about increase in piety apply; it's reasonably explained that your character found it his/her purpose to search and preserve hidden knowledge in the service of his/her god.

Warlock has at the very least the advantage of same key spellcasting ability: Charisma. Other than that, it really isn't too difficult to see a bard interested in all kinds of lore might turn to an otherwordly patron for more power, or just plainly more knowledge of a secret lore. Both, of course, come with a price.

Likewise the Sorcerer share Charisma as their spellcasting ability. Sorcerer magic in itself is technically a latent power. It's perfectly plausible for a character with a bloodline that could burst in sorcery to live his or her life without never learning of his heritage. Likewise, other way around. It might have always been there, nagging about in the back of your head, but you just couldn't put a finger on it and explain what was that feeling, until now. For any reason, your latent powers chose to emerge only now, and not earlier. One sorcerous origin above all else is perfect for this kind of surprising emergence: Wild Magic.

From options you didn't mention, since bards used to be a kit mixing fighter, rogue, and druid back in the days, and their spell list have much in common, you could become a druid as well.

Normally I might suggest a paladin dip, but I don't know how you prefer to play the game. Paladin dip is great choice if you like to roll some extra dice, and prefer melee combat. If not, just stay away form it :)

If you're fine losing some spellcasting altogether, a rogue with Thief subclass might be good addition to your repertoire. Maybe an assassin if you fancy your character a slightly sinister with a knack in killing. Or even Arcane Trickster might work; it would even give you 1 level of spellcasting progression for first 3 rogue levels.

[spartan_ah]

I play a 5/2 lore bardlock and I say don't go 3 levels dip, it's too much.
some say you want the 18th level magical secrets for the wish, but I say you'll pay too much in versatility before hand.
2 levels of warlock will do just fine.
and if you want the blasting warlock go now, so you'll get invocations by 5th level

[hymer]

So, the last level of the bard is terrible. [...] we are 3 lvl

What are the odds you'll go all the way to 20?
Even if you do, I think it should be mentioned in this thread that you don't have to dip now. Going straight with a caster is generally the stronger option, as any dips will set back you spell advancement, even if it doesn't set back your spell slot advancement. Relatively speaking, the higher level you are the less do you gain from those early levels in some class, and the more do you stand to lose if you're a spell level behind. That's a general rule, so not perfectly applicable, but it's pretty good for 5e.

[dread05]

It's pretty likely that we will hit 20. I know that going straight as caster offers enough, bard progression seems awsome to me apart from 20th. But I like planing ahead, and if I'm to dip eventually, I gotta setup it with the DM. Meet the patrol, have the awakening, you know what I mean.

@Spartan I played a 3 lore bard /5 fiend lock and it was really cool, but I'm not going that route again. I'm just trying to get rid of that terrible capstone.

[Arkhios]

I'm just trying to get rid of that terrible capstone.

If it is only one level you wish to trade off, then I'd say it's either fighter or rogue. Could be taken at any point.
Fighter gets you Action surge and proficiency in medium armor, and all weapons. Second Wind is not that great in the long run, with only 1d10+1 HP regain, but it's available after each short rests, so it's not half bad either.
Rogue on the other hand gives you Expertise, Sneak Attack +1d6 extra damage, and Thieves' Cant (which is rather useless, unless your DM gives you a lot of screen time to roleplay with it). Of all the rogues features, Expertise and extra skill and tool proficiencies are the best things to add for a bard. Little extra damage once per turn doesn't hurt either, but isn't that much in the end.

[hymer]

If it is only one level you wish to trade off, then I'd say it's either fighter or rogue. Could be taken at any point.
Fighter gets you Action surge and proficiency in medium armor, and all weapons.

Action Surge isn't until level 2, though.

[Arkhios]

Action Surge isn't until level 2, though.

Oops, you're right. Always forgetting that fighter's get Fighting Style at first level, not the other way around. Anyway, even Fighting Style and Second Wind along with the proficiencies is just fine.

[dread05]

While most of your suggestions are good, nothing really seems to "fit" to me, which is weird cause its the first time I didnt manage to succesfully fluf my multiclass. What I should have was start as a wild magic sorc and then go full bard. As it is its weird to me :/

[hymer]

While most of your suggestions are good, nothing really seems to "fit" to me, which is weird cause its the first time I didnt manage to succesfully fluf my multiclass. What I should have was start as a wild magic sorc and then go full bard. As it is its weird to me :/

A level in wizard could be showing an academic interest in the magic you do spontaneously. Wizards get excellent ritual magic, and even with one level can fill them all into their spellbook and so be ready to cast them as needed.

Edit: All the level ones, I mean.

[dread05]

Yes ! My bard is an academic ! Also, I dont see bard magic as a spontaneous act of magic, its like the wizard, but instead of training on a tower, they learn their spells from their travels and study or lost arcane lore scattered here and there.

[bardo]

What exactly is the problem with your lore bard that you want to solve by multiclassing?

If the problem is a weak capstone, it can wait until the teen levels.
If the problem is you're not killing stuff fast enough, sorcerer. The bloodline is something you're born with, yes, but nobody is a sorcerer at birth. Sorcerers go through an awakening of their power, usually around puberty but it can be at any stage in life. You can talk to your DM and plan for something fun, maybe you drink some dragon bone soup and it unleashes the beast within, that sort of stuff.
If the problem is not enough known spells, consider a 1 level dip in Cleric, Druid, or Wizard. You don't lose any spell slots. You get lots of utility spells you can swap each day. Not much of an offensive boost, because your casting stat won't be strong, but Bard have an okay selection as-is and Lore Bard at 6th can grab whatever 2 spells they want.

Personally, I'd wait until Lore Bard 6. Wouldn't want to delay the magical secrets.

Also talk to your DM about exchanging Bard spells that become obsolete from multiclassing. For example, if you know Cure Wounds as a Bard, and you dip a level in Life Cleric, you'd probably want to exchange the Bard Cure Wounds for another Bard spell. By the book you can not exchange Bard spells until you gain another level in Bard. An understanding DM might cut you some slack. If your DM says no, rules are rules after all, multiclassing becomes less attractive as it takes several levels to get your spell selection to where it needs to be.

Bardo.

[dread05]

Yes the problem is the weak capstone, and yes I will wait for as long as I have, I just enjoy planing ahead. Character creation and development for me is at least as fun as the game itself. Who knows by the time i hit 20 wizards might have released something new :D

[bid]

1-level dip: Fighter 1 for a Valor Bard.
It's also the cheapest way to get medium armor, shield and a +1 AC from defense style. It almost makes a lore bard SAD.:smallwink:

[MaxWilson]

So, the last level of the bard is terrible. Dipping seems the obvious solution but I have my concerns.

Cleric (life or knowledge) seem to be good since they let you keep your spellslots. Couple of levels in fey warlock also seem fine for EB and a couple invocations. Three levels in sorcerer are also recomended for meta magic (hightended and quickend spells).

Now for the cons of each choise. cleric spells are based on wisdom, and also require the character to become pious for some reason, or even more to be picked from a deity as a cleric. Warlock looses me 2 spell slots a 6th and a 7th. Sorcerer origins either dont fit with the lore bard or are too difficult to fluf: you cant just wake up one day and say, HEY I AM A DRAGON NOW :P. Given we are 3 lvl already.

Warlock 2 is an awesome dip for bards. Even if you get to level twenty, you won't miss the spell slots. You'll be too busy spamming Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blast to blow ground-based enemies across your Spike Growth for 4x(d10+4d4+5) (82) points of damage per round. Also it is nice to be have two "free" spell slots per short rest to cast Faerie Fire and/or Heroism or Healing Word, no matter how trivial the encounter, because you can always just regain them by stopping for lunch. Also, it's great to be able to apply Hex and Cutting Words to the same monster to ensure that a monster fails its ability checks, e.g. to get out of a Web or a grapple, or to avoid being Disarmed by the fighter (DMG variant rule, opposed attack roll vs. Athletics check with various modifiers for two-handed/size/etc.).

What I've found is that the Warlock provides lots of little stuff that gets you through encounters cheaply, while the Bard provides bigger stuff like Hypnotic Pattern and Aura of Vitality/Conjure Animals to help you with deadly threats. (Of course the Bard has some at-will and short-rest abilities too, like Bardic Inspiration and Expertise.)

I don't think you would regret dipping Warlock 2 unless it doesn't fit your bard's personality, or you failed to use your Warlock features effectively somehow.

[dread05]

It's also the cheapest way to get medium armor, shield and a +1 AC from defense style. It almost makes a lore bard SAD.:smallwink:

Yes 1 fighter looks nice, but i would go with archery and then pick crossbow master and swift quiver.