Sanctuary to open Doors. Knock Knock

[fishdad]

Having been inspired by TreantMonk's God Wizard guide. I have changed my play style to control the battlefield more. Currently using a level 4 Light Cleric (I know not a wizard) and trying to come up with way to control the encounter.

What do think or have you ever use sanctuary on the first guy through the door. More specifically:
Enemies behind door know you are there, you know enemies are there. Cleric cast sanctuary on the fighter, fighter opens door. All the readied actions that the enemies have to attack whatever comes through door make a wisdom save. On failed save the enemies lose their readied actions and we roll initiative. If fighter wins initiative he goes first, losses sanctuary, but took away the advantage of the situation for the enemies. If he losses initiative he still has sanctuary and protected with a wisdom save.

Not foolproof, still dependent on wisdom save for extra protection but still better then nothing.

Or is it just a waste of a spell slot?

[MaxWilson]

Depends on the situation of course, but it isn't a bad plan.

Other ways to enter a barricaded room include Dodging, sending in a Silent Image to trigger attacks, casting Darkness, or blindly Fireballing the room's inhabitants. Sanctuary has the advantage of letting you clear multiple rooms at a time until you hit resistance, though empty rooms may or may not be a thing at your table.

PCs make good SWAT teams.

Another cool use for Santuary is for a grappler to cast it after grappling someone.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Having been inspired by TreantMonk's God Wizard guide. I have changed my play style to control the battlefield more. Currently using a level 4 Light Cleric (I know not a wizard) and trying to come up with way to control the encounter.

What do think or have you ever use sanctuary on the first guy through the door. More specifically:
Enemies behind door know you are there, you know enemies are there. Cleric cast sanctuary on the fighter, fighter opens door. All the readied actions that the enemies have to attack whatever comes through door make a wisdom save. On failed save the enemies lose their readied actions and we roll initiative. If fighter wins initiative he goes first, losses sanctuary, but took away the advantage of the situation for the enemies. If he losses initiative he still has sanctuary and protected with a wisdom save.

Not foolproof, still dependent on wisdom save for extra protection but still better then nothing.

Or is it just a waste of a spell slot?

The absolute best use for sanctuary is for a cleric to cast it on themself. Then, run around using the help action.

You aren't attacking so it doesn't break the spell. You can still cast other spells to help allies while under this effect.

For longer fights, Sanctuary + Bless + Help Action = Win.

There are just some spells that don't require concentration, I both love and hate them for that.

[Citan]

The absolute best use for sanctuary is for a cleric to cast it on themself. Then, run around using the help action.

You aren't attacking so it doesn't break the spell. You can still cast other spells to help allies while under this effect.

For longer fights, Sanctuary + Bless + Help Action = Win.

There are just some spells that don't require concentration, I both love and hate them for that.
Ahem, it's a bit limitative use of a Sanctuary. ;)
First, for a solo, you could just run around with Spirit Guardians active.
Second, either as a Cleric, or as any caster in fact, you can still be on the offense while under the effects of Sanctuary.

Sanctuary breaks only if the affected creature "makes an attack or casts a spell that affects an enemy creature".
Technically, inflicting damage by Spirit Guardians, Flaming Sphere, Dust Devil or Moonbeam (you just move the source) or inflicting damage by using your action/bonus action to reactivate the sustained feature of spells such as Witch Bolt, Call Lightning or Telekinesis is valid.

Cases such as Spiritual Weapon or Vampiric Touch are probably not though (you still make a melee spell attack after all). Same with Sleep (you don't "control" who it will affect first, but as long as one enemy could be potentially hit I'd say it's forbidden).
While Bigby's Hand and Maximilian's Earthen Grasp should be good by RAW (you don't make an attack, it's a saving throw action).

And you still get anything not directly harmful available, as well as class features (ex Warding Flare).

You could also cast Conjure X which will do the job for you...
Or Spike Growth / Walls / Control Water etc to create control: as long as no enemy creature is in the zone of effect during the initial cast, it is good by RAW...

Or sanctuarize a wizard who wants to cast a Leomund's Tiny Hut. ;)
Or coordinate with a Bard pal to sanctuarize after he cast a debuff spell to ensure concentration isn't broken while he goes help/heal allies
Or protect a Sorcerer who wants to empower a Delayed Blast Fireball etc...

Many many ways to stay in the heart of an encounter while using Sanctuarity to its most. :smallcool:

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Ahem, it's a bit limitative use of a Sanctuary. ;)
First, for a solo, you could just run around with Spirit Guardians active.
Second, either as a Cleric, or as any caster in fact, you can still be on the offense while under the effects of Sanctuary.

Sanctuary breaks only if the affected creature "makes an attack or casts a spell that affects an enemy creature".
Technically, inflicting damage by Spirit Guardians, Flaming Sphere, Dust Devil or Moonbeam (you just move the source) or inflicting damage by using your action/bonus action to reactivate the sustained feature of spells such as Witch Bolt, Call Lightning or Telekinesis is valid.

Cases such as Spiritual Weapon or Vampiric Touch are probably not though (you still make a melee spell attack after all). Same with Sleep (you don't "control" who it will affect first, but as long as one enemy could be potentially hit I'd say it's forbidden).
While Bigby's Hand and Maximilian's Earthen Grasp should be good by RAW (you don't make an attack, it's a saving throw action).

And you still get anything not directly harmful available, as well as class features (ex Warding Flare).

You could also cast Conjure X which will do the job for you...
Or Spike Growth / Walls / Control Water etc to create control: as long as no enemy creature is in the zone of effect during the initial cast, it is good by RAW...

Or sanctuarize a wizard who wants to cast a Leomund's Tiny Hut. ;)
Or coordinate with a Bard pal to sanctuarize after he cast a debuff spell to ensure concentration isn't broken while he goes help/heal allies
Or protect a Sorcerer who wants to empower a Delayed Blast Fireball etc...

Many many ways to stay in the heart of an encounter while using Sanctuarity to its most. :smallcool:

Those spells have been cast, if they then effect someone the sanctuary is broken.

Using spirit guardians or other spells in such a way is very munchin and you may be able to slip it past a DM, but you are still effecting a creature in a harmful way.

Note: I'm not saying that I don't like using sanctuary in such a way, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem completely legit.

[georgie_leech]

Those spells have been cast, if they then effect someone the sanctuary is broken.

Using spirit guardians or other spells in such a way is very munchin and you may be able to slip it past a DM, but you are still effecting a creature in a harmful way.

Note: I'm not saying that I don't like using sanctuary in such a way, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem completely legit.

The spell has been cast, but by that logic a creature can never be Invisible because they've made an attack in the past. Sanctuary is broken on casting a spell, not using an already existing spell.

[Citan]

Those spells have been cast, if they then effect someone the sanctuary is broken.

Using spirit guardians or other spells in such a way is very munchin and you may be able to slip it past a DM, but you are still effecting a creature in a harmful way.

Note: I'm not saying that I don't like using sanctuary in such a way, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem completely legit.
"Well, what can I say guys? I just want to go help my friend stand up. If you didn't want to get hurt you just had to get out of the way! It's not like my guardians are invisible right?" XD

And, sorry to insist, but I'm perfectly confident that what I say is valid by RAW. Valid by RAI may be debatable, I'll give you that. ;)

Also, it's only a specific point in the long list of examples I gave of perfectly valid use of Sanctuary+spell. I just wanted to stress that self-sanctuarize to Help was not necessarily the "best" use of Sanctuary for a Cleric.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

The spell has been cast, but by that logic a creature can never be Invisible because they've made an attack in the past. Sanctuary is broken on casting a spell, not using an already existing spell.

The attack isnt ongoing, the spell is.

Unless you are saying that attacks have a duration of greater than instant?

With the help action, you are just running around being annoying, you are directly harming creatures. With an ongoing spell, you are continously harming creatures.

[Citan]

The attack isnt ongoing, the spell is.

Unless you are saying that attacks have a duration of greater than instant?

With the help action, you are just running around being annoying, you are directly harming creatures. With an ongoing spell, you are continously harming creatures.
Well, I guess it really depends on how you understand the meaning behind the Sanctuary.

For me, I see it as a "positive" energy field arounds the player that would break if he cast a spell with harmful intentions (aka "affects enemy"), because the surge of "negative" energy would disrupt the field (Otherwise, it would be a total interdiction of spellcasting towards "external", like Force Field).

BUT, if you cast the spell before, the magical energy is already "set" so it does not disrupt.

I agree this is totally personal though, so it would be fair that a DM refuses any ongoing spell that requires an action/bonus action from the player against a target. Meaning Spiritual Weapon and such.

With that said, I really see no reason to break Spiritual Guardians (you don't even interact with the ongoing spell, it just so happens that the area of effect is centered around you), nor prevent any Conjuration nor Wall nor Environment (Fog Cloud, Spike Growth and such) casting, as long as you don't cast it upon enemies. Since it's basically the same than Help: you harm enemies, but indirectly, not by using an action/bonus action to cast an effect directly affecting an enemy.

And I'll let you ponder on this open question: your tanky friend has been Dominated and convinced to attack his allies. You're under the effect of Sanctuary, and the only one able to stop him before his own turn. Should you consider him an enemy (he's blatantly hostile after all) or still an ally? ;)

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Well, I guess it really depends on how you understand the meaning behind the Sanctuary.

For me, I see it as a "positive" energy field arounds the player that would break if he cast a spell with harmful intentions (aka "affects enemy"), because the surge of "negative" energy would disrupt the field (Otherwise, it would be a total interdiction of spellcasting towards "external", like Force Field).

BUT, if you cast the spell before, the magical energy is already "set" so it does not disrupt.

I agree this is totally personal though, so it would be fair that a DM refuses any ongoing spell that requires an action/bonus action from the player against a target. Meaning Spiritual Weapon and such.

With that said, I really see no reason to break Spiritual Guardians (you don't even interact with the ongoing spell, it just so happens that the area of effect is centered around you), nor prevent any Conjuration nor Wall nor Environment (Fog Cloud, Spike Growth and such) casting, as long as you don't cast it upon enemies. Since it's basically the same than Help: you harm enemies, but indirectly, not by using an action/bonus action to cast an effect directly affecting an enemy.

And I'll let you ponder on this open question: your tanky friend has been Dominated and convinced to attack his allies. You're under the effect of Sanctuary, and the only one able to stop him before his own turn. Should you consider him an enemy (he's blatantly hostile after all) or still an ally? ;)

You are interacting with spirit guardians. You are maintaining your concentration.

This isn't just something you can do without thought, there are rules for it. If you don't continue to concentrate then your spell dissapears. Your continuous interaction with the spell keeps it active.

Frienemy Issue: DM's call, either way is correct. As a player and DM I would expect my friend to be considered an enemy since they are now hostile to me. Just because I consider a creature an ally doesn't mean they aren't really an enemy. Of I walk up to a dire bear and say "this is my ally" in pretty sure it may still maul my face off and I'll need to fight to survive.

Just cause you want to be friends doesn't mean you are allies, hell, even Stalin found that one out the hard way.

[ZenBear]

What makes the most sense to me is that Sanctuary breaks if you deal damage to a creature. The spell is a sort of aura of peace (isn't that close to what the Monk ability is called?) and if you stop being peaceful you break the spell.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

What makes the most sense to me is that Sanctuary breaks if you deal damage to a creature. The spell is a sort of aura of peace (isn't that close to what the Monk ability is called?) and if you stop being peaceful you break the spell.

There are many ways to not deal damage and yet stop being peaceful.

Forcefully holding a creature in place (hold person) while your allies stab, bash, and burn/freeze/electrocute it to death is one of many.

[ZenBear]

There are many ways to not deal damage and yet stop being peaceful.

Forcefully holding a creature in place (hold person) while your allies stab, bash, and burn/freeze/electrocute it to death is one of many.

Grappling is not violent in and of itself. If I pin you, I'm preventing you from inflicting violence on me. What others do is out of my control but until I actually hurt you (punch, break a bone, etc) I'm still being peaceful.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Grappling is not violent in and of itself. If I pin you, I'm preventing you from inflicting violence on me. What others do is out of my control but until I actually hurt you (punch, break a bone, etc) I'm still being peaceful.

That seems like sophistry. If you're grabbing and holding someone against their will, it's hard to see it as anything but a form of assault. At best it might be a form relatively free of physical injury and that argument doesn't even apply to the example provided- deliberately holding someone in place so your allies can strike them with impunity and they can't avoid attack. At this point you're definitely out to inflict harm.