New to the game, kind of - Original adventure (d&d 3.5)

[Lord Joeltion]

Hi guys, I'm new to d&d and I ended up posting here to see if I could find piece of wisdom. Any advice will be appreciated, I really want to improve and become the Ultimate DM. So, while I'm familiar with d20 systems (and some other systems); I find d&d huge in comparison, and as terrifying as it may be at first, I think it also makes it more enriching and exiting.

My friends asked me to run a "medieval/magic" game, and I saw the opportunity to try D&D. As I was reading the manuals I started taking the first decisions:
-I will restrict the game to the core rule books (PH I and II; DMG I & II; MM I) for simplicity's sake, and also because the other players are totally unfamiliar with d&d. I'm not adding anything outside/contradicting the core rules.
-I will use an original setting. This aims both to be more appealing to my players, and helps me not to get entangled with more new lore (d&d background, specifically).
-I won't track experience.

The last one is one I'm not that sure if it's for the best. I know it can be done, and it certainly will save me a lot of time to me when preparing encounters (and to my players, since they will be doing the math afterwards, lol). The spells and the costs for crafting and the likes, will be patched with special material, and/or special costs. I know the general rule XP=n*5 pg. But I'm not really that sure how the "special material cost" will impact the economy of the world, and that's where I'm in doubt.

For example, a specific spell could have a specific material, additional to the increased gold cost. Maybe the material is only found on a specific zone/climate; maybe it will be tied to a quest. It will be a case by case decision. The problem comes when they want to buy, say a wand or a potion. For instance, a healing potion might be cheaper on a certain region because the "additional ingredient" is a common type of weed for them. BUT, how should I handle more rare items, or where a spell is so powerful (let's say, Resurrection) that the specific item is more or less unique or tied to a "quest" for the party. Of course whoever who wants to sell such a rare item should have completed said quest (or similar one, whatever) or found the rare ingredient. Let's imagine the ingredient is vampire dust. How can I calculate the price for items that in fact have no market cost? Throwing random numbers is ok? A roll of dices is preferable or not?

I might add also that spells of higher levels (wish, true resurrection, etc.) that shouldn't be that common on a setting that is not a powergame; will be either banned or restricted. My reasons are that to add more drama to the story (death won't be so cheap) and also to prevent one of the players becoming a powerhouse over the others without knowing. My players are more of the casual type, but I won't let them cast wish every two days either. I prefer giving them the chance to use those spells more like "one last bullet", so they will be more conscious when using them too.

Well, I'll leave it here, later I'll make another thread so you guys will help me in the proper adventure crafting. Let me know what you think about my "innovations" (?), every bit of help will be useful to me. Thanks :smallwink:

[Geddy2112]

I welcome you to 3.5 and other 3.X variants-it can and is certainly a monster, and I caution you to run a system you have never played, but if you are experienced with D20 systems it is certainly doable. And for a sword and sorcery setting, it is hard to beat.

Milestone experience is fine, but as is the rule with anything, plenty of people on the internet (http://www.madadventurers.com/angry-rants-lazy-dms-and-non-experience-systems/) hate it. So long as you and your players like it, screw the internet haters and roll with it.

I suggest you check out the Pathfinder(Which is 3.5 with rule fixes and a different universe, under a different publisher) version of any 3.5 spell that uses experience. Pathfinder did exactly what you are thinking-replaced exp components of spells with expensive and rare material ones. Wishes, miracles, resurrections, restorations, and all that jazz usually require diamond dust or a diamond costing anywhere from 1k to 25k gold. Also start from level 1, so none of the high level insanity is even a thing. Wish and miracle are 9th level spells, so that is an 18th level caster throwing that kind of stuff. It takes a long time for players to be that high of level.

Also on materials, don't track any material component under 1 gp-a spell component pouch covers it, and consumables are refiled constantly by any competent caster.

[Kol Korran]

Welcome to the game, and to DMing! It may look a bit intimidatign at first, but you learn and grow into it. I think it is great fun!

A few notes:
1. You guys are just starting. I'd advise to first focus on things like "What does tabletop rolepaly means", basic mechanics (Types of actions, attacks, movement, skills, magic, that sort of thing), and so on. A lot of what you're referring (Spells in the higher levels, craftign and such) are options that coem up either much later in the game, or by mroe experienced players. Get a feel of the basics first.

2. About not tracking XP: That is quite fine. In my group, other than the current campaign, we didn't track XP as well. The basic principle was "You get a level when you accomplish soemthing BIG!", Usually, a resolution of a big conflict/ question.

That said, if you take this approach, you need to be aware of a few things:
1- The game (3.5 at least) assuems you face apporximately 13.33 encoutners of the same CR to level. This is suppsoed to correspodn to treasure gained. Now, I suggest the followign instread: At first get a feel to what your players can handle, and how they grow. At the first- secodn advneture, I'd suggest to go a bit easy wit hthe challenges, due to them being new, but mainyl because it takes time for a party to come to it's own, to learn their dynamics, and "feel" the game. I do this even though I've played with the same party for years.

After you learn that, you know better the approximate "time' the party should level, and the proper amoutn of a challenge for them. Now... About treasure and such- Look at the DMG for Wealth By Level (WBL for short). See how much a PC is suppsoed to have at each level. Multuply by the number of players, and you have the amoutn you need to distribute between levels. How to allocate this amount? Well, that changes from group to group, some prefer it to be random, some prefer more personalized loot, some prefer most of it to be items, some like monetery, and more... See for yourself.

About crafting and spell costs, I also suggest lookign at what PF does for that. Though for craftign I'd suggest to upgrade the DCs, for they are... quite laughable really.

About banning spells, makign them more rare and such. This depends a lot on the world, the game and campaign, but I'd suggest to live that to ab it later. Reach level 5-6, and then think about it.

Good luck to you with your game, it's a great hobby! :smalltongue:

[Lord Joeltion]

Thanks for the advice guys. I really appreciate all suggestions. Been busy during past week(s), so I'm answering with some delay. I know some of my "fears" are way ahead in the future, but I care a lot in consistency (for stories in general, be it rpg or book) so I'd prefer having some things set in "stone" from the start (obviously, subject to change according to the mood of players and me).


I suggest you check out the Pathfinder(Which is 3.5 with rule fixes and a different universe, under a different publisher) version of any 3.5 spell that uses experience. Pathfinder did exactly what you are thinking-replaced exp components of spells with expensive and rare material ones. Wishes, miracles, resurrections, restorations, and all that jazz usually require diamond dust or a diamond costing anywhere from 1k to 25k gold. Also start from level 1, so none of the high level insanity is even a thing. Wish and miracle are 9th level spells, so that is an 18th level caster throwing that kind of stuff. It takes a long time for players to be that high of level

Well, that's interesting. Yeah, I was thinking "expensive material" would, more often than not, equal to "currently unavailable in shop"/"obtainable from quest X". It's strange that the book doesn't really specify (or I haven't noticed) whether "diamond worth X" for example is obtainable in shops or not. Common gaming sense says it should be, at least on some specific shops; but RL common sense would indicate that only kings and really influential people should have access to them. Black market aside, of course.

But I'm really not in the position to start looking for PF book(s) and read them; so I'd probably try to gather what I can from the internet. I've been short of time, lately. It's interesting to know, tough.


1. You guys are just starting. I'd advise to first focus on things like "What does tabletop rolepaly means", basic mechanics (Types of actions, attacks, movement, skills, magic, that sort of thing), and so on. A lot of what you're referring (Spells in the higher levels, craftign and such) are options that coem up either much later in the game, or by mroe experienced players. Get a feel of the basics first.

Yeah, I don't expect lots of crafting, and I personally would advice not to chose a Wizard to my players; but I know probably their allies (i.e. frequent NPC's) would have to cover some of those bases (i.e: Wizard class) and I'd prefer to know how to handle (also because they can become their "teachers" in-game).


*snip*
After you learn that, you know better the approximate "time' the party should level, and the proper amoutn of a challenge for them. Now... About treasure and such- Look at the DMG for Wealth By Level (WBL for short). See how much a PC is suppsoed to have at each level. Multuply by the number of players, and you have the amoutn you need to distribute between levels. How to allocate this amount? Well, that changes from group to group, some prefer it to be random, some prefer more personalized loot, some prefer most of it to be items, some like monetery, and more... See for yourself.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I was thinking tracking the WBL was enough to determine their "current level" and when to move up. I know they like levelling up a lot (it's a great incentive, really), and if they ever become bored of being a certain level, or want to face even more harder challenges, I just have to be generous with their loot and such, lol.


About crafting and spell costs, I also suggest lookign at what PF does for that. Though for craftign I'd suggest to upgrade the DCs, for they are... quite laughable really.

About banning spells, makign them more rare and such. This depends a lot on the world, the game and campaign, but I'd suggest to live that to ab it later. Reach level 5-6, and then think about it.

Good luck to you with your game, it's a great hobby! :smalltongue:

I know, I'm thinking ahead. If you want to know, the game will have plenty of magic thingies, it will the pure caster classes which will be a rare sight. Arcane casters will be have a secluded school, apart from society; and divine casters will be either nerfed (just limiting their spell-casting, no wonky mods), hunted, or more involved with politics. I will soon open a new thread for suggestions regarding the setting :)

[ksbsnowowl]

Are you planning to make up your own adventures? Or will you be running published modules?

[Lord Joeltion]

No modules. Original adventure. I get the impression that I would have the need to rail-road if I had to stick to a published script. I know that's not the intention, but I feel more comfortable knowing I am giving them all the options. And I feel less stressed when improvising and trying to stick to the argument at the same time.

But I am open to read a module if there are any useful tools to get from there.

[johnbragg]

Suggestions.

1. For experience, I use an only-slightly-simplified system. You level up after 10 average encounters. Easy encounters count half, really difficult encounters count double. You don't have to win to score the XP, just to perform impressively. (Surprised by an ogre and got away without a TPK? Easy-to-average, depending. Rule-of-thumb is how cool would you be telling the story in the tavern while flirting?)

2. Buy the PDF of Keep on the Borderlands. Yes, it's 1st edition and you'll have to adapt the stats. That's not that hard since you have the SRD. It gives you a plot structure, a starting setting and challenges, without really railroading because there are different options for the PCs.

3. It sounds like you're starting at low level, and your players will learn along with the PCs. If not, forget about Keep on the Borderlands. But for beginning players and a D&D newbie, I'd recommend low level start.