Feats for Warforged Fighter

[Master O'Laughs]

So I wanted to make a new topic since my last one went past the topic title. So I am stuck with Attributes but wanted to get an idea for what feats to take and in what order.

Campaign will at most go to Lvl 20.
If Multi-Classing can improve versatility without too big a hit to effectiveness I would like to do so.

Here is my Character:

Warforged
Fighter 2
Fighting style: Archery Style.

Attributes (we rolled for stats)
STR - 14
DEX - 18
CON - 14
INT - 13
WIS - 16
CHA - 9

Either STR, CON, or INT may be +1 additional points, but I can't remember. (Just 1 not all 3)

My equipment is a rapier, shield, Longbow, studded leather armor (used lvl 2 gold at character creation), whip, and net (whip and net are for possibly utility and thematically I am a bounty hunter and it seemed to fit)

So the Feats I am thinking of taking are as follows (tell me if they sound good or better with stats or something else):

lvl4: Crossbow Expert (I plan on getting a hand crossbow by then)
lvl6: Sharpshooter
lvl8: Medium Armor Master or Alert (I want highest AC possible which I could gain with half plate and we were told stealth will play an important role in the campaign)
lvl12: Alert or medium armor master
lvl14: Mobile or Shield Master (If I can use a hand crossbow and shield and still get the extra attack
lvl16(if I do not multi-class): +2 DEX

[Corran]

To start with, you cannot use a shield with an xbow (xbow master works with one hand xbow and one free hand), so that takes out shield master. Also, you need to spend an action to equip a shield, so consider selling it. If you take xbow master, you can even shoot in melee just fine, without even ever needing to change to melee weapons. The only way to safely retreat is by dipping 2 levels of rogue for cunning action. That also gives you 1d6 of sneak attack and expertise, which could really help you with stealth, considering you play in a campaign where stealth is important. Sharpshooter is a really good feat, especially if you go battlemaster or EK. Since you already have 18 dex, instead of MAM just raise your dex to 20. Granted, with MAM you would have +1 AC, but that's all the benefit this feat will give you. Spending a feat for just +1 AC is not worth it, especially when you are an archer. So avoid MAM at all costs. If you decide to go with a level 2 dip in rogue, a 3rd level in that class could give you some very interesting features (achtype dependent), besides one extra sneak attack die (total of 2d6). Lucky is also a good feat to take, perhaps later at some point.

Which archtype are you considering for the fighter?

[JohnDoe]

The character is a Battlemaster, I know I added this later on in the other thread (it was getting off topic) but I'll repeat it here for this topic.

I wouldn't multi class or delay fighter & feat progression.
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The one thing I would Consider, is getting your dex, then Medium Armor Master if at all.

Here's why:

1. There is a Proficiency curve. Creatures, just like characters, scale with level / CR.

People use the term 'Bounded Accuracy' to describe this mechanic in 5e. As the characters and creatures gain levels, they scale to stay competitive.

2. You're already so far ahead of the curve, that you don't really need more AC just yet, and you might find yourself not needing, or appreciate it since you have such good survivabity.

You're a War Forged... You have very high dex. In studded leather Armor, with a +4 dex?

12+ 4dex, +1AC Warforged.
You already have a 17.

Taking that dex puts you at 18, which is the most someone with Medium Armor Master could hope for. You're staying well ahead of the curve while adding another +1 to hit, damage, stealth checks, etc.

3. Consider this:

You're proficient with Heavy Armor.
You rolled, so you didn't have to dump STR...
You can use Heavy Armor.

Stealth Disadvantage?

Mithral Armor.

No disadvantage on stealth. Have it Crafted. It's only an "Uncommon Item"

By the time you would consider getting Medium Armor Master? You could get Heavy Mithral.

Now you'd be at that same 18+1, and not need Medium Armor Master... You could just go Heavy Armor Master, or pick up another feat entirely

Plus as a Battlemaster, you can be proficient with Smith's Tools, which I think fits your Warforged character

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Btw, I believe the errata requires a free hand to load under the ammunition property, so you won't be able to use your shield & crossbow.

You would need to interact with objects twice on your turn, to stow it, fire, then draw the shield again at the end of the round.

[Master O'Laughs]

So for armor the best thing to do would be to get mithral full plate and then eventually I could get the Heavy Armor Master to get a minor damage reduction. In the meantime, at lvl 4 I should pump DEX to max to not only increase AC but also to Hit by +1.

After the DEX bump, then continue with the feat line.

Lvl 4: +2 DEX
Lvl 6: Crossbow Expert
Lvl 8: Sharpshooter
Lvl 12: Alert
Lvl 14: Mobile
Lvl 16: Heavy Armor Master

Any conditions which would direct a change in order?

EDIT: With the Crossbow Expert feat, what prevents you from using a hand crossbow with a shield? The feat makes it so you ignore the loading property. Is it still because you use ammunition? Why can't your shield be one that straps to your arm so you still have use of your hand?

[Corran]

Consider taking the archery feats first, and then pumping dex to 20. That means xbow expert, sharpshooter, and 20 dex by level 8. Continue up to level 11 for the third attack (4 attacks with xbow expert, each one dealing d6+5+10 with an attack bonus of +6, taking the -5 penalty for sharpshooter). After level 11, you need to consider multiclassing, nevermind the feat you would get at level 12, it can wait. Besides, you got the most important feats already (lucky is a good feat, but it can wait). What you will really need at that point, will be a way to boost your attack bonus), or a way to gain advantage. I would say 3 paladin of devotion for bless and sacred weapon, but you do not have your charisma to pull it off. Maybe grab a level in cleric for bless.

ps: About the xbow expert feat, you do ignore the loading property, which means that you can fire a xbow more than once per round, if ofc you have extra attack or a similar feature. The feat ensures that you load your xbow fast enough so that you can fire more times during a single round, so it basically nulifies the loading time, which is what keeps other characters using xbows to 1 attack per round even if they do have an extra attack. You still however need to be able to load the xbow, so you need a free hand with which you can load it. Xbows dont just load themselves.

[JohnDoe]

EDIT: With the Crossbow Expert feat, what prevents you from using a hand crossbow with a shield? The feat makes it so you ignore the loading property. Is it still because you use ammunition? Why can't your shield be one that straps to your arm so you still have use of your hand?

It's in the Player's Handbook Errata, under Ammunition. I agree with you.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/Errata_PH.pdf



I would personally take

Sharpshooter with 2 attacks @ 5, with the longbow

Then Crossbow expert for 2 attacks + bonus with a hand crossbow, with Sharpshooter in place.

I would take Dex @ 8, when most classes would max out their Dex, because your Dex is already plenty high.




After level 11, you need to consider multiclassing, nevermind the feat you would get at level 12, it can wait. Besides, you got the most important feats already (lucky is a good feat, but it can wait). What you will really need at that point, will be a way to boost your attack bonus), or a way to gain advantage. I would say 3 paladin of devotion for bless and sacred weapon, but you do not have your charisma to pull it off. Maybe grab a level in cleric for bless.



1. That depends on the party. You don't need to be a one man Army.

If someone already has bless, or grants inspiration die, it's a complete waste.
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2. He could just pick up magic initiate if it were that important, it's once per day instead of twice. Another reason why a party member with more spell slots is important.

Giving up your fighter levels for 1 more bless per long rest is not worth it.

Id much rather get feats, more superiority die, larger superiority die, extra attack, another action surge, etc than dump 3+ levels into paladin.
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3. He's a Battle Master.

You don't "need" to consider multi classing.

He can use those feats, get another extra attack, and most importantly not delay getting more superiority die and d12's. His entire character concept is built upon those superiority die and maneuvers.

Battlemaster's can choose to add superiority die after an attack roll, or deal damage with a maneuver on a hit.

If you've played a Battle Master, you like your superiority die, and want to use them as often as possible.

They fuel so many great abilities that benefit the party. It would be taking away opportunities to help your party in a way that only you can provide.

[Master O'Laughs]

So to help, our current party is comprised of:

Gnome Diviner Wizard
Wood Elf Monk (going shadow)
High Elf Rogue (going arcane trickster)
Half-elf Paladin (not sure)
Warforged Fighter (myself)
And another player who couldn't make it to our first session and haven't heard what he will play.

I am getting hyped up to go full Battlemaster. The only 2 classes I was thinking of would be ranger (fighting style & dark stalker path) or rogue (cunning action).

Also, if I take tinkering tools, I may be able to create a quiver that allows me to load my hand Xbow with one hand :) allowing the use of a shield. Doubtful due to other rulings the DM has made.

[JohnDoe]

So to help, our current party is comprised of:

Gnome Diviner Wizard
Wood Elf Monk (going shadow)
High Elf Rogue (going arcane trickster)
Half-elf Paladin (not sure)
Warforged Fighter (myself)
And another player who couldn't make it to our first session and haven't heard what he will play.

I am getting hyped up to go full Battlemaster. The only 2 classes I was thinking of would be ranger (fighting style & dark stalker path) or rogue (cunning action).

Also, if I take tinkering tools, I may be able to create a quiver that allows me to load my hand Xbow with one hand :) allowing the use of a shield. Doubtful due to other rulings the DM has made.

That's quite the group.

I played a Gunslinger in pathfinder, so naturally I didn't hesitate to pick up the Battle Master in 5e.

I'll admit, I do like the idea of a character who is quite literally a war machine.
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You can always consider that route wayyyyy down the road.

Remember this:
You're just as tough as any other fighter... Maybe even more so, because you're a Warforged. You can just attack from range. You could fight up close with crossbow expert if you'd like.

You can use Goading Attack from a distance, and the target has disadvantage on everyone but you. They might decide to try to provoke opportunity attacks from everyone else to even try to attack the fighter...

You could knock them prone first, so that your melee party members can smash them with advantage until they get up... Then hit them with a Goading Attack to come at you once they do get up... While you're 100 feet away.

You're not quite as squishy as the rogue, and there are probably more likely targets than the Warforged Battlemaster in armor.

If you're going to be attacked up close... You do have crossbow expert, you could just blast them 15 feet away from you with a pushing attack for +Superiority Die damage, or use evasive footwork on your move (I like the idea of blasting better).

You also have your second wind to regain hit points when you do get damaged any round, and that's back up after a short rest along with your Action Surge and Superiority Die.
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You said you liked the idea of the net?

Well you have proficiency since you're a fighter, and with Sharpshooter its 5/15 range doesn't impose disadvantage. You can throw it from 15 feet.

Now when you use the net you can't make any other attacks that round... But as soon as the target is hit its restrained. It can't move, it has disadvantage on attacks, dex saves, attacks against it have advantage.

It can only escape if it uses its action... Another creature helps it... Or it gets hit with a slashing attack.

If it's a single large creature, you can throw a net on it, and it has to waste its action getting out. Then you throw another net on it the next round, and it has to waste its action getting out.

Rinse & repeat. Just carry plenty of nets on you. You can draw and attack with a net every round, and really shut down a creature.

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So just remember that's a long way away. Just have fun in the mean time.

[Master O'Laughs]

I'll admit, I do like the idea of a character who is quite literally a war machine.
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So just remember that's a long way away. Just have fun in the mean time.

Yeah, the concept is HK-47 from KOTOR. I have a list of words to pre-fix anything I say. I also refer to everyone as meatbags. Also, the backstory for the character is he was created lawful evil and eventually became lawful neutral through life experiences. He was just paralyzed for 150 years... conscious... for all of it... the meatbags were happily petrified. He is probably going to show signs of being a little unhinged.

DM and I are gonna work out if there should be any mechanical implications (I would think it would have to come with pros and cons since it was the 1st session it happened and nothing I could do about it).

EDIT: Weapon selection, hand crossbow for up close and longbow or heavy crossbow for range?

[JohnDoe]

Yeah, the concept is HK-47 from KOTOR. I have a list of words to pre-fix anything I say. I also refer to everyone as meatbags. Also, the backstory for the character is he was created lawful evil and eventually became lawful neutral through life experiences. He was just paralyzed for 150 years... conscious... for all of it... the meatbags were happily petrified. He is probably going to show signs of being a little unhinged.

DM and I are gonna work out if there should be any mechanical implications (I would think it would have to come with pros and cons since it was the 1st session it happened and nothing I could do about it).

EDIT: Weapon selection, hand crossbow for up close and longbow or heavy crossbow for range?

Ahh I know HK-47. That's funny.

Why not all of them?

Longbow is great since you'll be able to attack up to 600 feet.

If you're facing a lot of low AC creatures, use the hand crossbow and Sharpshooter +10 them with a bonus attack to boot.

Heavy crossbow has the largest damage die, I'm sure it has its place for plugging away at targets without using Sharpshooter.

Also carry your nets, and maybe a bludgeoning weapon if you want to smash Skeletons with vulnerability.

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Remember to keep an eye on what extra maneuvers will help your party. Rally can arguably be better than a Bard's healing word.

You can get an extra attack in from your rogue with Commander's Strike, Maneuvering Attack can get your Wizard out of harm's way, etc.

It's very easy to be a team player as a BM. Very tactical.

[Master O'Laughs]

Sooooo,

Out of game I mentioned to my DM that I would be interested in Mithral Plate Armor and if it is a possibility to acquire it in his world.

He said he would have to think about it and then our last conversation he basically said because you asked for it you are likely never going to get it. He says because it is meta gaming... So apparently if I mention I want an item that does a certain thing to my DM, I will never find it in the world unless I have the actually means to create it (like magic items, but I am a fighter).

Good thing I found before I mentioned wanting the Darkvision goggles.

Is it just me or does that seem a little bit over the top?

EDIT: I understand it is his world and he can do what he wants in it. But if out of game I mention an item I would like to acquire if possible and then purposefully make it impossible to acquire seems overly punishing for simply wanting something.

[RickAllison]

Sooooo,

Out of game I mentioned to my DM that I would be interested in Mithral Plate Armor and if it is a possibility to acquire it in his world.

He said he would have to think about it and then our last conversation he basically said because you asked for it you are likely never going to get it. He says because it is meta gaming... So apparently if I mention I want an item that does a certain thing to my DM, I will never find it in the world unless I have the actually means to create it (like magic items, but I am a fighter).

Good thing I found before I mentioned wanting the Darkvision goggles.

Is it just me or does that seem a little bit over the top?

EDIT: I understand it is his world and he can do what he wants in it. But if out of game I mention an item I would like to acquire if possible and then purposefully make it impossible to acquire seems overly punishing for simply wanting something.

That is honestly just being a d***. Characters generally know something about magic items anyway (my Aarakocra rogue freaked out when we found a deck of cards; his first instinct was to throw it across the room because he has heard tales of the Deck of Many Things and how that ends. Turns out its a divination deck) even if they don't know what the items really do. A bard probably knows about the Instruments of the Bard and how powerful they are, but he wouldn't know what spells they cast or even that it did cast spells. Mithral plate armor is something your character could even set out on a quest for, since mithral is rare but probably in the lexicon of even the peasants.

[Master O'Laughs]

Also, if we want to create anything or tinker with anything he makes the roll hidden so we have no clue how well we did and we could just end up sinking a whole lot of money into a project with nothing to show for it.

The story seems like it will be really cool, but I feel like he is being overly harsh with a lot of things.