Using Arcane Focus vs. Component Pouch

[Mith]

Hi,

I am looking at the idea of having casting classes in my campaign develop a personal arcane focus for spells. I am not sure if I am interpreting the rules correctly, but when they use a focus, can they can bypass the Material components of the spell unless it is something that has value as stated in the component section?

[Ralanr]

The arcane focus allows for no hand signs. The component pouch means you don't have to keep track of how many spiders or bat poop you have for spells.

[Starsinger]

Hi,

I am looking at the idea of having casting classes in my campaign develop a personal arcane focus for spells. I am not sure if I am interpreting the rules correctly, but when they use a focus, can they can bypass the Material components of the spell unless it is something that has value as stated in the component section?

You are correct. A Sorcerer with an Orb (focus) can cast Fireball without needing a component pouch to carry bat poop, but cannot cast Chromatic Orb without the component diamond (which is not used up in the casting, you just have to buy one once and not have it stolen).

[Ralanr]

You are correct. A Sorcerer with an Orb (focus) can cast Fireball without needing a component pouch to carry bat poop, but cannot cast Chromatic Orb without the component diamond (which is not used up in the casting, you just have to buy one once and not have it stolen).

I thought it was used up on casting?

[RickAllison]

I thought it was used up on casting?

Only if the spell specifically notes that the items is consumed. Most are not.

[Ralanr]

Only if the spell specifically notes that the items is consumed. Most are not.

Oh. My group has been doing that wrong. We wasted so much money on diamonds for chromatic orb...

[Mith]

Thanks for the responses!

So if I allow a custom focus that could incorporate the components of any material cost into the focus (a glove with a diamond embedded into the palm) then that would work until they cast a spell which consumes the diamond?

A related question I have is that do wands and staffs only go up to 5th level spells as a crafting rule, or just by examples given in the DMG?

I do not plan for having wands and staffs as treasures unless you are raiding a wizard's tower or the like, with potions being more common in terms of magic consumables. Instead, I was thinking of item crafting being something all casters can do, with the caster being able to create an item with a certain spell level 1 level after you gain that spell level. However, if 5th level is the highest one can do for item crafting (with artifacts being something truly unique, requiring a High Ritual likely), then I would have to something like "when one gains three spell slots of a certain level, one can craft an item with a spell of that level. Items with multiple levels of spells can be crafted one level after gaining 3 spell slots in the highest level of spells in the item." This puts a cap at 5th level spells for magic items and that items like the staff of the Magi can only be created at level 19-20. Time spent, and resources have yet to be determined.

Does this seem like a reasonable ruling?

[Naanomi]

Unless it is been errata'd, a focus requires you to have an off hand free for somatics (you can do it with the same hand as componants but not a focus); but looks cooler, is more likely to be enchanted, and probably less vulnerable to environmental hazards like water/intense temperature

[Mith]

So with the glove idea, you would need to still have your other hand free to cast spells.

[E’Tallitnics]

A focus cannot be used in place of a material component that is consumed, regardless of any associated cost.

[joaber]

Unless it is been errata'd, a focus requires you to have an off hand free for somatics (you can do it with the same hand as componants but not a focus); but looks cooler, is more likely to be enchanted, and probably less vulnerable to environmental hazards like water/intense temperature

the somatic can be done with componants OR focus.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/18/focus-component-and-free-hand/

[Mith]

I find it interesting that a focus can be used for V,S,M spells, but not V,S, spells. I cannot figure for myself what the reasoning around that is, but I guess so long as the caster isn't grappled, it doesn't matter.

[Dalebert]

I find it interesting that a focus can be used for V,S,M spells, but not V,S, spells.

That really bothers me, and less for mechanical reasons than for flavor reasons. I love the focus element that was introduced in this edition and I was picturing firing eldritch blasts and firebolts from the tips of wands and rods Harry Potter-style. Finding out that you can't do that, that you have to use just your hand was so disappointing. I just like the flavor of it.

Picture the Wand of the War Mage that adds +1 to your attack rolls with spells. It seems to me you're channeling your power through your focus, in this case in particular, and yet when you use the wand with your cantrips, presumably you have to fire the spell out of your free hand. It mak no centz!

[RickAllison]

I had thought the ruling was you had to have a hand free to use the focus. Basically, you couldn't dual-wield or carry things in both hands if you wanted to cast. If my interpretation is right, it still makes sense to have the focus be the, you know, focus of the spell.

[E’Tallitnics]

So...if you have a Wand of Magic Detection that allows anyone to cast Detect Magic (a VS spell), you must hold the wand in one hand whilst doing the S with your other hand?

Does this make sense to anyone?

[Dalebert]

I had thought the ruling was you had to have a hand free to use the focus. Basically, you couldn't dual-wield or carry things in both hands if you wanted to cast. If my interpretation is right, it still makes sense to have the focus be the, you know, focus of the spell.

You can use the same hand that's holding the focus for spells that require a material component (assuming the focus is a valid replacement for those components). What we're talking about is for "V,S" spells that don't require a material component. You have to use a free hand for those so it can't be holding a focus.


So...if you have a Wand of Magic Detection that allows anyone to cast Detect Magic (a VS spell), you must hold the wand in one hand whilst doing the S with your other hand?

In that case you're activating a magic item. The normal spellcasting rules don't necessarily apply. The case will vary depending on the item and how it's activated. Some items can just be activated at will so it's like casting with Subtle Spell. Some require a command word. I don't remember the details.

[RickAllison]

You can use the same hand that's holding the focus for spells that require a material component (assuming the focus is a valid replacement for those components). What we're talking about is for "V,S" spells that don't require a material component. You have to use a free hand for those so it can't be holding a focus.

Okay, so it is like those have more intricate somatic components that are cannot be replicated with a focus? That would make sense and explain why I was confused.

[JoeJ]

Okay, so it is like those have more intricate somatic components that are cannot be replicated with a focus? That would make sense and explain why I was confused.

The somatic component is probably equally intricate. It's just that when cast a VSM spell, manipulating the material component/focus is part of the somatic component. If you're casting a VS spell, the material component/focus just gets in the way. Just like typing on a keyboard might not be any more intricate than playing a saxophone, but you're still not going to type very well with that saxophone in your hand.

[Zalabim]

I will point out that the wording is that you have to have a hand free to access these components (M), and that can be the same hand as is free for components (S). This seems like a distinct state from having to have the object in your hand to cast the spell. In other words, you have a wand handy, and you can quickdraw it for a Tasha's Hideous Laughter, but you don't even reach for it when you cast Eldritch Blast. I imagine you spin the wand in your hand, blow the smoke off the tip, and holster it as part of the spellcasting action.

...
This still totally leaves magic items that work as focuses and boost aspects of spellcasting (particularly on non M component spells) in a really weird place.

[E’Tallitnics]

In that case you're activating a magic item. The normal spellcasting rules don't necessarily apply. The case will vary depending on the item and how it's activated. Some items can just be activated at will so it's like casting with Subtle Spell. Some require a command word. I don't remember the details.

Right you are!

"Check out the rules for casting spells from magic items (DMG, 141). No components required: V, S, or M." (https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/694413061898121217)

[Arkhios]

Chromatic Orb without the component diamond -- not have it stolen).

Umm, of course you can use a stolen diamond as much as a bought diamond. The price just tells us how valuable the diamond has to be. A diamond worth 50gp doesn't lose it's value when stolen. That would be silly :P

[Dalebert]

Umm, of course you can use a stolen diamond as much as a bought diamond. The price just tells us how valuable the diamond has to be. A diamond worth 50gp doesn't lose it's value when stolen. That would be silly :P

He's saying you can keep using the diamond until it's stolen from you.

[VoxRationis]

I dunno... Maybe magic's like all the merchants in Skyrim and instantly knows when something's been acquired illegally.